Ideas on building trust in a horse

[pasoman]

Thinking of buying a horse that is 4 1/2 years old as a PROJECT. She was not handled at birth ( they could not catch the mother.) Has not had much to do with her. I am told the horse will come up to the owner and touch her nose to her hand but will not be allowed to be caught. Horse has never been abuse.
What ideas do you have for over coming her fear and gaining her trust?
Has anyone dealt with a horse like this and if so what was the outcome?
All ideas and suggestions would be welcome...I will be awhile before I go check the horse out.. In the meantime would appreciate your input.

[Carol Nelson]

I have a half QH/half Paso Fino filly that was born in a 100 acre pasture with only her mother, some half wild colts and a few cows for pasture mates. She was not found for four weeks after she was born, at least that's the time estimate on it given by her previous owner. We loaded her and mama into a trailer (by using a couple of panels making a V and pretty much driving her into the trailer...to my benefit was her mama is very calm and easily loaded) and brought her to my place (mama was a mare I had previously owned and knew me, although she had been an abused horse as a youngster). This filly was wild as a jaybird when I got her. I would halter mama and using the mother as a shield, reach over and under her back and belly to touch the baby. That way the baby got used to human hands with no fear. There was no way you were going to walk up to that filly and touch her. Eventually she learned to trust me and would let me pet her and take a soft brush to her.
I used lots of cooing and voice contact with her, and treats. I halter broke her myself, just repeated touching with the halter, slipping it over her nose, behind her ears (she was tremendously head shy for no apparent reason). I repeatedly run my hands over her to get her used to me touching her head, her belly, her feet, but watch it, they are much more likely to kick than an imprinted foal handled from birth. I have now put her in our middle pasture which I call my desensitization pen. It is a pen that you have to go through to get to every major part of our farm. Not only does she get used to humans passing through but tractors, four-wheelers, and diesel trucks pulling trailers. All of our babies spend time in that pen at some stage of their lives.
All I would tell you is to work it so that your mare has constant contact with humans, and just about every facet of human existence that there is. Teach her that you are to be trusted and be consistent and fair in everything you do with her. My filly is two now and I will soon start working with her with a saddle blanket and doing some rope work and a little round pen training. As with everything else I have done with her, it will be slow and patient and persistent. But it pays off and you will have a willing, working partner like no other.
(just want to add too that you get a respect for humans from a horse like this, that imprinted ones have to be taught...like to respect your space, for example...in a way, I've kind of grown to like that...and I don't imprint my babies quite so heavily anymore because of that...I believe a little bit of fear of humans is always not such a bad thing).

[Barbwire]

Welcome Pasoman! I am sure the folks here will give you lots of helpful advice, you are in good hands.

http://www.jammerbabe.com/flotilla/images/smiles/groupsmile.gif

[CarolU]

Yes, I have trained several horses that have had little/no handling since birth, that were 3-4 years old when I got them. All the "gurus" have a different name for what you need to do, do yourself and horse a favor and buy the "how to" from one of them, or have her initial work done by someone who KNOWS HOW already. It is critical that the person doing it has the confidence in their body language to do it right.

It's Monty Roberts "Form Up"
Parelli's "Catch Me Game"
Clinton Anderson and John Lyons both have videos on Round Pen training wild horses.
There are many others...
Both John Lyons and Parelli have certified trainers around the country who use their methods.
I'll also recommend a Paso Fino trainer, Jamie Drizin, to do this kind of work. I've seen Jamie tame 2 "wild ones" within 45 minutes, with very kind and humane methods. Then you build on that trust.

If you don't know what you're doing, and do it right, you're just chasing the horse and making things worse. You have to know how to MOVE the horse with your body language and actions. The horse will see you as a leader and trust comes with that respect.

Then you build on it.

It's a marvelous journey to imbark upon. There isn't much more gratifying then taking a horse from wild to trust.

[Boyd R]

This is what I would do.

Put her by herself from day one. You need to establish yourself as her new heard.
If she has never been haltered and no ground work done. start in any area the smaller the better doing dominance moving. If she has been haltered and some ground work, then start from scratch there. Starting, stopping, moving front end and back end and keeping out of your space. You will be surpised how much connection this will begin with her if she respects you, she will bond with you. When this is accomplished and you begin to introduce her to your other horses, intro 1 at a time and be there to protect her you allow the other to approach and not to. this will let her know you are boss and protector.

And Kudos to Carol.

[motorgypsy]

We're in that same situation now with two of ours. One, a nearly two year old filly with a very protective mother. Mom is very easily handled but she wouldn't let you get near the filly for a long time. Filly then became very agressive, chased and bit adult mares and bit one of us so we had to have a dominance lesson really fast. She learned but then became pretty standoffish. We could stroke her but she was head shy from birth and will move away using pressure but won't mover her head toward us with pressure under the jaw. We play with her every day and now she's in with our dominant gelding who has humbled her quite a bit. It's just very slow. We do hand feed but they have to ask permission and move to where we want them.

The other one is just plain spooky. We've finally gotten a halter on her and can put a leadline on her and hand feed her all her grain but she gets all bent out of shape if you touch her anywhere but her neck and sometimes her head. Again we rub her every day and move her around and talk to her. We'll start clicker training with them as soon as they're good with being touched. It has worked very well with our other problem children.

We strongly recommend the KBR ranch website and training information. It's free and fabulous.
http://www.kbrhorse.net/

[reuben T]

I've adopted a few wild mustangs, that would be basicly the same thing.
http://www.whmentors.org/ is the best info site on the web for dealing successfully with mustangs. With observation I've found that the closer a person can approch to training a horse the way horses train each other, the faster the training goes, and the faster trust will develop.
I'd suggest the whmentors site for info on starting with an untouchable horse, and Marv Walker and/or Clint Anderson's teaching for progressing with herd dynamics. (i like marv's stuff cuz it's cheap, and the simplest commen sense ideas, so I could know what to do and why it works. but it isn't a polished presentation, just homemade stuff.)
http://www.downunderhorsemanship.com/
http://AwarenessHorsemanship.com/marv.htm

[Jasfino]

Patience, and time with treats as a reward for the right response has worked for me. With my gelding, he learned that I controlled his food and he warmed up. I would stand guard over him as he ate running away the boss mare from his hay and his grain. I think that made him realize that I was a force to be dealt with. Also, I do have a secret that I will share. I sit by him while he eats his hay, and pick the seed heads out to give him. He loves for me to do that and I guess some would say I spoil him but oh well. Its a great way to spend some down time with your horse and bond with him at the same time.

[pasoman]

Thank you all for your advise and especially the websites that you gave me.. I have had horses since I was young but it is always good to get advice on something you have not dealt with for awhile or ever.. We are never too old to pick up new ideas and methods.. If I end up getting this horse, I will let you know how things work out..( This will not be until May, but it is never too early to start researching) It will also help me make up my mind as to whether or not I will buy her.

Thanks again.

[finolover]

trust begins at the head of the horse..always show new things to them and let them smell and check things out....!

i had to hold back quitos feed until he made an effort to smell the back of my hand..then get a little touch on the muzzle..and just slowly work up from there, reward and praise with the slightest effort...it's a long road keep calm and DON'T lose your temper..ever...my ground work in the past year set the stage for this yesterday...http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/finolover/jeremyandquito.jpg :cooldude

[Jasfino]

Way to go Earl. I'd say he's beginning to trust you. :D Did you do that with a mounting block or did you just hop up there? I wish I could do that without a mounting block but cant. :(

[finolover]

that's my new trainer..jeremy Goff...it took me a year to get him calm enough, but i'm too stiff to spring up there!!!!

yesterday was the first day jeremy met quito, he said i had done all the hard work for him :D

[Jasfino]

I would say you have done a great job with him. :D

I'm too stiff to spring up there too. A friend of my brothers can do that and make it look so easy. :-?

[Pasogirlz]

http://bestsmileys.com/welcome/9.gif

I don't know how I missed this thread. :-? I'm late welcoming you.

But about your question...
This horse sounds similar to my Tequila. He was untouchable as a 2 yr old when I got him and has supposedly knocked someones teeth in. He was terribly untrusting. I have had him going on 4 yrs now and he has made lots of imporvement, but still has him moments. I'd say time and patience are the biggest factors for regaining trust. If you have those, you should do great. :D

[pasogalinbama]

I kinda have the same problem. i have a 15 year old paso mare that was not handled till she was 13, she was sent to trainer for 60 day she is a great little ride, but does not like people, is hard to catch, and will turn her behind on you in a heart beat and will kick you if she can. i have been working with her for 2 years. and she just is not a people horse.
i wish she would trust us more, she has never been hurt just loved