Question on Riding a Paso

[Buffy111_99]

I noticed in the photos that Lori has shared that the horses are being ridden on a tight rein. I have always been taught to ride on a loose rein. Are Pasos all ridden on a tight rein or does it depend on the individual horse?

[cowboy ed]

buffy, it depends on the horse and how it was trained. it is not breed specific. cowboy ed

[Buffy111_99]

Thanks, I figured that but thought this would be a good first question from me.
Lori

[Monty]

You can't really tell from pics - JMHO - what may appear to be tight ,may just be a light touch and the reins and bit gathered up -
If you see me on Monty - appears to be tight ,but it isn't - just the slack taken up - I need to feel and he needs to feel my hands to react to the touch.
He had one owner ( the last one that messed him up ),he needed retraining - :roll:

[Heidi]

I rode a fire-breathing performance mare (Carmin) who looked all ramped up, but she was fingertip control with a super light touch on the bit. I had the reins gathered in a manner that looked tight, like I was hauling back on her, but in actuality I was only just making contact with her mouth.
Light hands.
Check some of the pics, to see if you can see the hand gripping the rein, forearm muscles bulging and the bit pulled far back with leverage, or just fingers holding the reins for light contact at the bit. Even then, the photo may not acurately show the light touch.
Heidi

[Ginger]

Edited to add that these are my personal sentiments, added for the purpose of contributing variety to the topic, not for malicious argument. It is not my intent to debase opposing sentiment, nor to petition the acceptance of my convictions from others.

I've noticed the tight reins, too. Like these others have said, it could just be misleading imagery, but there are instances (not so rare as these folks would like to believe) when heavy-handedness IS prevalent.

Many people drive the horse up into the bridle to "collect" and "quicken" the footfall of the gait. It's like "holding them in it".

Another instance is the old huntseat trick- to get a horse to stop without moving your arms, assume contact with the bit, drive the horse into it with your legs, stop motion with your seat, and hold the reins- you're driving your horse against a figurative wall, and they will either halt as expected, or bob their head to escape the bit's discomfort.

Ideally, there should't be the need for pressure on the bars of the mouth if the curb chain is doing it's job. It should be tight enough that it contacts the horse when the reins are implemented in the appropriate manner, yet loose enough that it doesn't bite into the horse and cause pain with proper use, OR a loose rein. A too loose curb-chain causes the mouth to open because the bit's pressure is directly applied to the tongue and bars on the lower jaw. A too tight curb chain will produce a stronger lever effect- applying pressure to the chin and to the bars of the mouth, like a vise.

Fingertip control does not always evolve from bit contact. The horse can feel hands on the reins even if the reins are "dead" or loose, if the head position is correct. Too low, the contact sensation is diffused throughout the rein, too high, gravity absorbs it through the length of the rein. When the rein is what some might consider "loose", a horse can still feel it (at least in a shanked bit), and might interpret it as a cue, which is why steady hands are important. Hands which move constantly give a horse "false leads", and eventually desensitize not only the mouth, but, more importantly, the horse's brain from reacting.

Most horses who are "acting up" are just responding to cues unwittingly given by the rider's seat, balance, leg position, hands, even the direction their head is pointing. The head governs the balance and direction of the body, as the spinal column supports it. That's why when you're driving a car, you should always look at your intended destination. Looking at a cat on the side of the road might subliminally cause you to swerve toward it- after all, your body is instinctively, and through muscle memory, following your eyes' lead. If you look toward your next jump while you're past the apex of the current jump, the horse will most likely land on the appropriate lead and head the right way.

So, in summary, an unnecessarily tight rein just generally signifies rider error (even experts are capable of error, but the philosophy applied here is "If an expert screws up and nobody calls it, it wasn't an error", if indeed it isn't a (usually unintentional) photographic illusion.

As always, proper equitation should apply even to those who choose Paso Finos as their mounts. Just because they have good taste doesn't mean they have good sense, too. A weak lead makes a weaker follow. When you both perform well, people will look at your horse. When you perform poorly, people will STILL look at your horse- and why you'd want to make him look bad is beyond my reasoning. (A hypothetical you, not a personally targeted you, BTW- I'm too lazy to edit for proper narrative voice!).

If a couple dances well, the lady is complimented. If a couple dances poorly, the gentleman is criticized. In dancing, the male is the lead, the lady is the follow. The lead in horsemanship is the rider, and the follow is the horse. People who ride properly think of the horse as an extension of their bodies just as a lady is an extension of the gentleman's frame, and this particular style is seamless, fluid, and aesthetic.

A good lead isn't overly strong or aggressive. A good lead or a good rider, however, is both sympathetic and empathetic, yet a fair judge, flexible yet firm, efficient yet patient, diligent yet practical.

All that from one question. Geez, I need to find a good long book to read, so I don't WRITE them instead!

Edited once more to add pictures of what are various types of loose, tight, or appropriate reinings based on my experience and opinion:

Too tight- his chin is sucked in as far to his chest as it can possibly be and the reins are taut. That was likely from me putting him up onto the bit, dropping his haunces, and requesting the elevation of his forehand in an unsafe maneuver for which I assume all liability. As it's my horse and my business, I'll respectfully request abstinence from safety comments, please:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/silverhorse/ickis/ickiscatchingair.jpg

Ideal contact considering the individual horse and tack. Loose enough for comfort, enough contact to prevent most predicted aberrations from rider's ideal goal of tracking straight in an elevated trot:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/silverhorse/ickis/ickistrotting3.jpg

Appropriate contact on a shanked bit- again, given the individual horse:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/silverhorse/poniesgaiting/weeezum2.jpg

Too tight:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/silverhorse/poniesgaiting/zumtrots2.jpg

Too loose for many, but just right for this mare, as she has a very sensitive mouth:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/silverhorse/springfield/neckrein.jpg

Too loose- if he spooked or stumbled (not likely given the footing, but were it different), I'd have to "snatch" the reins, and risk either bumping his mouth, or unbalancing him further, when my hand-to-face support would be what he'd need the most for that moment:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/silverhorse/manderdigging.jpg

[Edurne]

keep writing ginger - excellent post.

[Kerry W]

I concur!! Thanks for taking the time Crystal! :shock:

[Blameitonbrio]

Great writeup Crystal. I am going to save this one.

[CarolU]

I agree Crystal...with all except your last picture caption. I think that rein is not too loose. If he 'bolted' you could get contact quickly with those reins the way they are. Too loose would be where you'd have to gather reins to get contact, and even that is individual...I trail ride like that a lot.

I have seen people come out of the arena with their hands cramping from holding horses in the bit...so yes, many people ride with too much contact.

What probably should be described is the action of the Colombian bit. You can ride with light contact without engaging the leverage of the shank/curb strap. So it is quite normal to ride a Paso with light contact on the bit.

[halfmoonfino]

I think it depends on the rider. I too am a firm believer in riding on a loose rein. Pitty (my Paso) does everything bitless on a loose rein. I believe that every horse should be able to do so. A good rider uses her body not her hands.

I will say one thing, however. It appears that the rider is holding the horse's head up (and of course, some are) but Pasos are supposed to hold their heads up fairly high (what looks abnormal to some people) in order to perform a good gait. It's natural! I worked with my horse on self carriage so that he would automatically get his head where it needs to go. In order to get a really good gait, though, I raise my hands up a tad higher and then adjust my reins accordingly after he positions his head. I will readily admit that I am not nearly a good enough rider to always gait on a loose rein. When we're cortoing (lol sp?) downhill in a field and he's getting faster and faster...I tighten my reins. I'll be the first to say that I get a little nervous when I feel out of control. But my goal is to be able to be on a loose rein even when I get nervous. In an enclosed area Pitty and I do great on a loose rein, but in an open space, he gets amped (and...so do I). But, for example, I gait him around bridle-less in the roundpen. Pitty keeps on teaching me to be better and better, and to always challenge myself. But honestly, loose rein riding (particularly loose rein collection) is my constant goal. We are doing great and I'm so proud of us (in a good way!).

If you want a video of loose rein riding, PM me and I'll send you a Quicktime of Pitty and I.

Very good question, though. I am a firm believer in correct, classical equitation no matter you're breed. But a higher headset is necessary for a good Paso gait. Remember, Pasos have naturally high set necks from the day they hit the ground too! Of course all horses should be taught to self carry and gait off of body signals, not rein contact. JMHO...

Here's a few pics of Pitty and I:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/halfmoonfino/DSC07578.jpg This is a picture of what I like to see! This is a walk, and if he was gaiting his head would need to be a lot higher, but this is the amount of slack I prefer to ride with. There's no bit, so there's no risk of "catching your horse's mouth", as Ginger was warning about.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/halfmoonfino/DSC07173.jpg Here's more loose rein riding in the Paso bosal (bitless once again). My riding is crappy here (I'd been unable to ride for a while) but it is a good shot of a relaxed Paso!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/CKHorses/sept16-014.jpg Here's a slow corto on a loose rein. I really need to get one of me riding in better form though, lol! Again, this is after a lay-up...(you can see how well I remember my equitation) ;-)

[motorgypsy]

Which Lori are you referring to? Lori West and the Biltmore photos or Lori Ford? In the Biltmore photos these people are trail riding their winning show horses. I know that one had real issues (was extremely nervous, hot and badly behaved) when they bought him and was totaly retrained but the headset is trained and most of today's US paso fino trainers train the horse to self collect which means they can be ridden with no contact if you wish, so you just gather the reins so they look nice. We do know some Colombian trainers who train the horse to be really "on the bit" with strong pressure. We rode one of these and were instructed to keep heavy pressure on his mouth. None of our show trained horses are like this the one Colombian trained mare and we just had to change bits until we found one she respected (the Rutledge Roper bit - looks like a torture device but uses only shank and poll cues, not mouth cues and she loves it and relaxes with it), then we could use very very light touch with her also.

So generally you don't need rein pressure at all - just pinky touch if you need a rein cue which you usually don't. There are exceptions as always.

[Buffy111_99]

What a great discussion this this turn into!
My definition of loose reins is "hanging" like in the later photos posted not just taut (sp?) but not pulling on the bit.
Thank you all for added to this topic.

[Pasogirlz]

Actually, it was very easy to ride Toby on a loose rein, especially when out on the trail. He flat walks and everything nicely. But if you want him to really 'fino", you have to collect the reins. He collects easy and you hardly have any tension on the reins. Fingertips is all you need. If you don't take the slack out of the reins, you can actually get a decent largo outta him. (Shhh don't tell ;-) ) *We had a blast checking out his range.

[PASOFAN]

I ride in a loose rein. I only use a tight rein when chico isnt being good and I want him to remeber his job. Then he settles and loose rein it is.

I like a loose rein, to me it is more relaxing as long as he gaits in a loose rein...

Interesting thread!

ps: my boys are just trail boys, no showing...

[darcy]

Lori, can you continue on about how you use being on or off the bit to change the length of stride for Buffy... I think this is probably what is she is seeing, is someone asking for a shorter footfall. I too am just getting used to seeing and attempting to ride with light contact, as I haven't much occasion to use it when trailriding on quarter horses but I do see a purpose with pasos. If I don't have some contact to shorten my mare's stride we'd be in a full on largo without my intervention to shorten her stride.

[Pasogirlz]

I'm not really the best to explain how to ask this from your horse. *Any trainers wanna help us out here? I've just started getting a good feel myself. But a lot of it has to do w/how the horse is trained and how the rider rides.

[CarolU]

Let me see if I can say this clearly enough to understand clearly.

The purpose for contact is not really to shorten the stride, it is to collect the horse. While some shortening may occur, that really depends on the horse, the gait you're in, and how much you're trying to collect. I am trying to do this without using anyone else's pictures so no one else is critisized.

In this picture, you will see Diablo is mildly collected on light contact. Notice that he has a good length of stride (especially for this horse who is very shortstrided naturally)
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/23115Diablo4thofJuly2001.jpg

In this picture, you will see the same horse with too much contact (he is behind the bit). Granted he's walking, but it has not affected his stride length.
http://pasobaby.tripod.com/PasoFinos/thumbnails/400x300/JustDiablo.jpg

And again..with light contact, mild collection, but a shorter stride. Note also that this his normal headset, even when trail riding.

http://pasobaby.tripod.com/PasoFinos/thumbnails/400x300/DSCF0015.JPG

To train collection, you train it originally with the jaquima. You can bring the head up and tighten your collection with a bit...but the bitting should be done based on the needs of the specific horse...what he/she lacks, what you are trying to accomplish. I do not train for high collection, so perhaps Cindy would be better to elaborate on bitting.

But to train collection on light contact, you 'bump' the horse into the frame you want by pushing with your hiney/thighs to put the horse into the bosal or on the bit, and check slightly with the bosal/bit. Then RELEASE the pressure just to the point you are in light contact. When the horse falls out of frame, you bump again. You do this a few times and the horse will figure out that if he/she stays in frame, you'll stay out of his mouth. The RELEASE is critical to keeping a horse soft and light.

As for headsets, that is veries with the horse, the way his/her head ties into the shoulder, and the amount of adrenalin that fires their motor ;-) . As you can see, Diablo normally carries his fairly high with ears up and eyes bright, where Zar has a lower headset.

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/23115ZarStateFairSizedPlea.jpg

Although a set where the head is perpendicular to the ground is prefered in most disciplines, it also is horse specific. It's very hard for a horse with a short neck to bring their chin in enough to be perpendicular. If you look at the horse in the logo, the headset is right for that horse.

[CarolU]

Oh yea...this is Zar with no collection at all...

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/2311523_sized.jpg

(I don't ride Diablo without headgear...LOL)

[motorgypsy]

Generally to shorten the stride you can combine a bit of a forward leg or body push with a little bit contact at the same time. Kind of like squeezing the front into the back and the back into the front at the same time - but it also depends on the how the horse was trained. To get a couple of ours to shorten stride all you have to do is tense up you body and they'll shorten the stride. Cindy????

[Buffy111_99]

Wow! Thank you all for the indepth descriptions and photos. This is good info for any newcomer to be able to see. It gets a little confusing to the person who has very little access to Pasos. This helps a lot.
Lori H

[Pasogirlz]

Lori-Arent ya glad ya decided to stop lurking and pick our paso brains. :yay ;-)

[Buffy111_99]

Lori-Arent ya glad ya decided to stop lurking and pick our paso brains. :yay ;-)

Yep, Yep, Yep!!! :jumpy

[PASOFAN]

I have been here for a while and I am still learning great things. The pics sure helped me too!! Thanks guys.. ;-)

[darcy]

Me too. Sometimes I feel a bit silly when I ask questions and reveal my lack of knowledge but in the end it all helps.

[Pasogirlz]

Thanks for being brave. ;-) Each time you ask, someone else probably learns something new too.

[hast]

Most of the time I need to have a light contact on Michico... He has a lot of brio and that energy needs to be "harnessed" by a fingertip light contact with the bit. For him it's as much a question of confidence, he needs the rider to be in charge. :roll: Therefore I have bitted him down and ride him with a medium port kimberwick rather than the Paso spoonbit he came with. He pretty much self collect, you can see it even at liberty when he takes off gaiting in the pasture. Long trail rides where he can be in front of other horses I can ride him on a long loose rein, if I get the excess energy out first or he'll see monsters everywhere (and he just plain likes to run.) With a contact on the bit, there are almost never any monsters around; it's like he then trust me to deal with the scary stuff. Not to mention that he'd run himself into the ground without the contact at times.

HTTY