Michael Vick just apologized

[AliceG]

He seemed pretty sincere, but he apologized to everyone except the dogs.

I was glad he didn't blame his 'growing up in the hood' for the dogfighting I know his neighborhood and it sucks, but he was smart not to blame it.

Michael's uncle is the priest at the local Catholic church. He used to talk so proudly of his nephew. I haven't been to church lately, but I bet he is really disappointed...

[motorgypsy]

A lack of empathy in particular with animals - but let's face it - football is a very violent sport. He could say - well look at bullfighting. The bull is tormented then killed. Cock fighting is very popular and is the same thing - fight to the death. When you think about it war is also a fight to the death - but we hope in the case of war our ultimate goal is to save far more lives than are lost in a war and to stop violent predatory nations from taking over the world.

Men in particular but plenty of women also really love a gory fight. After all we're carnivores and kill to survive so it's in our makeup. But this is why we have a thinking brain. To control our animal brain and provide us with the ability to empathize with our prey so that at least we can dispatch it humanely. Unfortunately all of us get caught up at some time in our lives in things that later we wonder WHAT WERE WE THINKING???? Well - we weren't - at least not with the right part of our brain. This is why the intake of alcohol is so dangerous. It literally anesthetizes our thinking, rational brain which enables our animal primitive brain to take over our actions. We think we are so much superior to a pack of wolves or lions but when we participate in something like dog fighting that's exactly what we become - killers without conscience by proxy. We put together animals we know will kill each other and watch it for fun. The kind, caring, protecting human species image is false far too often.

[dana]

Makes you wonder about a personality like his or if he even has any regrets, other than loosing his millions.

i hope the God of the Dogs is waiting for him on the other side the day he dies. :twisted:

[Carol Nelson]

Michael Vick just apologized


Too late!! :evil:

[Abejita]

yup wooo...friggin...whoo
And MG's ..no offense, and I see your point..but I think you are looking too deep in this case and giving to much credit where is sure isnt due..

[baileyholc]

You do know that he never did anything for the Falcons, in my opinion. His apology means nothing to me. The pit will soon be extinct and it will be because of stupid people like that. Pits were not bread for that. They are already illegal to have in some cities here in SC. Every rescued pit that has been in the ring or not has had to be put down. Because of the rep they now have. They can not be placed in good loving homes some rescue facilities don't even try to rehabilitate for fear of them attacking.

No, if I was judge and jury he would have been placed on a chain with an electric collar around his neck with his hands tied behind his back and put in a room with all the pits that were supposed to be in his (so called care) covered in Alpo and mad to fin for himself. And that is being nice.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

You do know that he never did anything for the Falcons, in my opinion. His apology means nothing to me. The pit will soon be extinct and it will be because of stupid people like that. Pits were not bread for that. They are already illegal to have in some cities here in SC. Every rescued pit that has been in the ring or not has had to be put down. Because of the rep they now have. They can not be placed in good loving homes some rescue facilities don't even try to rehabilitate for fear of them attacking.

No, if I was judge and jury he would have been placed on a chain with an electric collar around his neck with his hands tied behind his back and put in a room with all the pits that were supposed to be in his (so called care) covered in Alpo and mad to fin for himself. And that is being nice.

Well, if the Pit's will soon run the danger for extintion. My County, which is MIAMI-DADE COUNTY in the State of Florida, is not doing much to preserved the breed. PITBULLS are BANNED in our county and is also my understanding that our County is not alone!!!! with this LAW AGAINST PIT.



Saludos!

[PasoPerson38]

My County, which is MIAMI-DADE COUNTY in the State of Florida, is not doing much to preserved the breed. PITBULLS are BANNED in our county

They are only Illegal to own IF the owner doesn't purchase insurance....Which NO insurance company will insure anyway.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

My County, which is MIAMI-DADE COUNTY in the State of Florida, is not doing much to preserved the breed. PITBULLS are BANNED in our county

They are only Illegal to own IF the owner doesn't purchase insurance....Which NO insurance company will insure anyway.


Miami-Dade County, Florida[15] Active County 1989 Section 5 Code 17: "It is illegal in Miami-Dade County to own any dog which substantially conforms to a pit bull breed dog, unless it was specially registered with Miami-Dade County prior to 1989. Acquisition or keeping of a pit bull dog: $500.00 fine and County Court action to force the removal of the animal from Miami-Dade County."



Saludos!

[PasoPerson38]

Holy cow! They are totally banned!!! What a shame.
My family ALWAYS gets funny looks from people when they walk by our backyard or if we take our dogs anywere because they think they look so much like pit bulls...which indeed they are American Bulldogs.

[Terry Wallace]

Pitbulls, Chows AND wolfdogs (hybrids) are destroyed at our humane society in Colorado Springs.

No adopting those breeds here.

[Cindy]

Men in particular but plenty of women also really love a gory fight. After all we're carnivores and kill to survive so it's in our makeup. But this is why we have a thinking brain. To control our animal brain and provide us with the ability to empathize with our prey so that at least we can dispatch it humanely. Unfortunately all of us get caught up at some time in our lives in things that later we wonder WHAT WERE WE THINKING???? Well - we weren't - at least not with the right part of our brain. This is why the intake of alcohol is so dangerous. It literally anesthetizes our thinking, rational brain which enables our animal primitive brain to take over our actions. We think we are so much superior to a pack of wolves or lions but when we participate in something like dog fighting that's exactly what we become - killers without conscience by proxy. We put together animals we know will kill each other and watch it for fun. The kind, caring, protecting human species image is false far too often.


Sorry, not buying any of this. I like a good fight. Human to human with rules and nobody dies. So it's not that I am some kind of pacifist. But I have never nor is it conceivable to me to ever be drunk enough to even consider killin' my dog. We are NOT animals. We reason and have a conscience. No matter HOW much alcohol we drink. That is just one more excuse for bad behavior and I am NOT buyin' it!!!

[PasoVicki]

Sorry, but I don't buy the apology. He apologized for engaging in "immature acts." Immature??? We were all immature at some point in time. How many of us were cruel and vicious? How many of us did the kind of things he did?

[Terri]

I agree with Cindy and Vicky. I don't buy the apology. What he is really sorry for is the mess he is in. I am also sick and tired of the "soft" words used to describe his horrible actions: "Immature acts", "Mistakes" "poor choices". An Immature act is mooning girls out of the window of your car, a Mistake is burning the breakfast toast, a poor choice is eating to much on vacation and putting on 10 lbs. Torturing and killing dogs is none of that, it is simply EVIL.

[Heidi]

What he is really sorry for is the mess he is in.
Ditto.
He's only sorry he got caught, as evidenced by his lies to his NFL/team heads when they questioned him.
His apology: Too little, too late.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

YOU guys are a ROUGH JURY!!!! :rant

Wont be surprise to find his TESTICLES auction on EBAY!!!!!! :cry:

[motorgypsy]

Some of you totally misunderstand. I was in no way excusing what he did. I was instead condemning most of the human race for thinking we're so superior to other species when this type of behavior is so common in our species. There IS no excuse for his behavior. He has a thinking brain and didn't use it. He has a conscience and ignored it. But I was pointing out that to a lesser degree we are all guilty of this type of thing and being forewarned is being forearmed.

Someone said we all have great potential for both good and evil and it's up to us to be sure that we do the good and avoid the evil. Not to recognize our capacity for evil makes it very difficult to make sure we NEVER allow the "dark side" to win. And losing your temper is allowing the dark side to win if you can't control your actions when you're angry. How many of you have seen horse owners totally lose it and beat on their horse - not a correction - just beat on the horse because they are so angry. I've seen it many times. Very sad.

Particularly if you had a violent childhood or youth you need to totally avoid alcohol and any drugs that reduce your thinking brain's control over your actions because you tend to revert back to what you're accustomed to when you're under the influence of alcohol and think about that phrase "under the influence". It tells it all. The drug influences the behavior by reducing the ability of the thinking brain to control the actions of the person.

Cindy I'm sure you would not do this because first of all you would never drink enough for your thinking brain to lose control and second of all you love animals too much. But enough alcohol really will cause the animal brain to take over and when it does we can only hope we're herbivores with no violent tendencies because if we have any they'll show up. I'm far from advocating abstinence regarding alcohol. Just pointing out how it works physiologically and why one person is a "mean drunk" and beats his wife and kids and another doesn't.

Alcohol is very interesting anyway. The metabolism of alcohol is that of a "zero order rate reaction". This means that regardless of how much you have drunk the liver can only process and eliminate a certain amount of alcohol each hour. So two beers drunk in five minutes will give a different reaction than two beers drunk an hour apart and if you drink four beers all at once and can only process one beer per hour you can see that you will stay drunk for quite a while before you get rid of the alcohol.

It was really funny reading the posts about Brigitte's driver's license and Aruba allowing kids to drink at 16 and drive at 18. Maybe it would be a good idea to allow kids to drink under controlled circumstances so they can see just how much alcohol affects the ability to drive. A local radio station had a hilarious program where the DJ's went out to a big parking lot and drove cars through a pattern of cones. They then drank one beer and repeated the experiment. By the time they were on the third one they were mowing down cones like a bulldozer. They were actually very surprised at just how impaired their driving was. Maybe the driver's test should include a beer drinking and driving through cones section. It would be entertaining for sure!!

I'm sure you can tell we taught a lot of 16 to 18 year olds and did a lot of preaching and a lot of experiments with alcohol and rats. The poor rats couldn't run the maze at all after a few "rat beers". They were pathetic - but very funny! We also lost a lot of our students to drunk driving accidents - but that's another story.

[Jane Hurl]

Wait! Wait!

Didn't you get the same news coverage we got up here?

Everything's okay now.

The good news is ... MICHAEL VICK FOUND JESUS!

Yep. Just the other day!

It's a miracle, I tell you! A miracle!

[Terri]

MG wrote:
Not to recognize our capacity for evil makes it very difficult to make sure we NEVER allow the "dark side" to win
TRUE! The bible teaches that humanity is deeply "fallen" and capable of great evil: each and everyone one of us. And that is why we are in need of redemption and are told NOT to judge each other. But that doesn't mean we should should excuse evil behaviour. Not judging doesn't mean we can't condemn or be revolted by evil behaviour, instead we should pray for Vick's redemption rather than selling his testicles on Ebay. So if Vick really found Jesus, altough I share Jane's cynacism about that, it is a good thing. BUT just because God forgives Vick, it doesn't mean a Jury has to. I have found God rarely bales us out of the consequences for our stupid or evil actions. And Vick should face the full consequences of his cruel and evil actions. He disgusts me.

[motorgypsy]

I saw part of his apology on TV last night. He said he was "immature" and needed to grow up. BULL!!! He reveled in cruelty, pain and death. I sure wouldn't call that immature! I'd call it the bloodlust in a pack of hungry carnivores and the opposite of all that can be good about humanity.

[Edurne]

It took a lot of sober thinking to design and construct his kennels, purchase his dogs and be part of a gamboling organization. I do not believe that alchohol was in any part responsible for his actions or his way of thinking. I too have become cynical of the "salvation" that is seen in this country..... seems to come in very handy for politicians and sports stars who we, the country, "forgive" because of our own insatiable addiction to sports and heroes. etc.

Addressing the fact that we may all have a reptile mind.... we can also look at that from the other side that we all have "basic goodness" obscured by our actions.

[AliceG]

Yeah, I bought Vick's "Jesus" line about as much as I bought it from Paris Hilton.

But, the owner of the falcons is already looking for wiggle room to let him play again, saying ..... he wasn't going to cut him from the team just yet...he was waiting for legal outcomes, etc.

[Cindy]

Cindy I'm sure you would not do this because first of all you would never drink enough for your thinking brain to lose control and second of all you love animals too much. But enough alcohol really will cause the animal brain to take over and when it does we can only hope we're herbivores with no violent tendencies because if we have any they'll show up. I'm far from advocating abstinence regarding alcohol. Just pointing out how it works physiologically and why one person is a "mean drunk" and beats his wife and kids and another doesn't.


MGs, I still disagree with this thinking. Yes, some people are "mean drunks" but I think they would be mean sobers if they felt they could get away with it. It's just that when they are drunk, they don't have quite as much control over themselves so they become their true selves. I don't think alcohol mkaes a person any different than they are. It just makes them less careful to control it. If they are mean drunk, they are mean people in hiding. As far as myself getting so drunk that my thinking brain looses control, I've been pretty drunk in my lifetime but you are correct, my thinking brain never lost control. And neither does anyone elses. Their thinking brain just does what it was only thinking about doing before it got drunk and lost the will to control it's thoughts.

But, the owner of the falcons is already looking for wiggle room to let him play again, saying ..... he wasn't going to cut him from the team just yet...he was waiting for legal outcomes, etc.

Alice, Arthur Blank has no intention of Vick playing for the Falcons again. He cannot cut him right now because they are suing him for the 22 million signing bonus. It has something to do with league rules but if he is cut now, the Falcons cannot go after the 22 million.

As far as the Jesus thing, I was believing his apology a lot more before he said that.

[Jane Hurl]

Edurne nailed it. Absolutely. Right on ... though I'm not sure what a "reptile mind" is. (Does that mean "a cold blooded mind"?)

[Edurne]

repitilian brain.... I think. But you can make your own evaluation of his mind. I think he engaged in, participated in, and encouraged others in henious acts which caused tremendous suffering to sentient beings.

[Monty]

THe Falcons have to keep him on the roster , so they can recup money from him - they have to follow the contracts and union rules - they aren't trying to keep him ;-)
"The fact Vick remains on the team’s roster may be the best indication of the plans. For the team to make a legal claim to recovering money under the CBA, Vick must remain on the roster, even though he is suspended."

[Jane Hurl]

One is left hoping that the boys in "the joint" will enjoy Mr. Vick as much as Mr. Vick enjoyed his dogs.

[Mellifluous]

Ok, I am putting this thread back after doing some editing.

No personal attacks. This is a serious topic and needs to be addressed as such.

[motorgypsy]

I was in no way implicating alcohol in the Vick case. Just pointing our our experience with research involving it and the dangers particularly to people whose "thinking brain" isn't in great control of their actions. I'm not sure he has a thinking brain. There probably are other drugs that have the same anesthetizing affect as alcohol but you can't buy most of them at the Red Dot store.

If anyone is really interested in the documented evidence of just how much alcohol affects some people it would be better to PM me because some of the cases I have direct familiarity with are not pretty at all.

And no we don't advocate prohibition. Those who aren't addictive personalities and whose "thinking brain" is in control have no problem with it and it appears to be beneficial in controlled amounts. The same thing with morphine by the way. A normal person does not appear to become addicted to it even in large doses for things like cancer pain.

Cindy regarding the "mean drunks" - you are exactly right. They would beat up their wives or kids or rape or pillage sober perhaps if they thought they wouldn't get caught or punished - but that is exactly what the thinking brain does - it tells us consequences of our actions and stops us from doing very evil things that we may well want to do very badly. As long as this type of person avoids drugs that shut down the thinking brain they may think about doing really terrible things but they just don't normally do them.

You're probably aware that there are many many psychopaths and sociopaths out there never kill or commit violent or even illegal acts despite the fact that they would have no remorse whatsoever if they did them. They obey the law because they know that they will have a much more pleasant life if they "pretend to have empathy, love kittens and babies and practice a religion faithfully". They'll do really nasty things like steal ideas from other people and sell them, undermine their superiors to get their jobs and so on - but the stay within the law because their thinking brain is in control.

And then there are those who think they are above the law because they are so well loved, important, powerful or rich. Some of these have a very strong sense of right and wrong and don't do cruel or violent acts simply because they CHOOSE not to, not because they think the law will lock them up. But too many are seduced by this belief, commit cruel or illegal acts, get caught and it destroys them.

And finally you have the crowd mentality - the feeding frenzy of the carnivore. A lot of baby boomers will tell you that they participated in protest marches or joined groups who committed violent acts during the Vietnam war just because everyone else was doing it. I suspect in Michael Vicks case it was a combination of the crowd mentality and his belief that he was so valuable that he was above the law. But I haven't seen any evidence that he HAS a thinking brain. It's fine to play a game but when your entire life is based on smashing into other people and other people smashing into you, you don't have a lot of time or need to think about kindness, empathy and all the other better human traits.

I have a former student who was a born again Christian. Please note this is NOT an anti Christian statement. It just shows how people can twist a religion for their own purposes. He told me that he had done a lot of bad things in his life and was sure he would do a lot more but that he was always sorry after he did them and so he knew he was forgiven and would go to heaven and would be forgiven when he did more bad things in the future - which he had no qualms about doing. Say you're sorry and everything will be forgiven. NOT!!! I love the idea of purgatory. I don't like the fact that your loved ones on earth can pay to reduce your time there though.

In addition to jail time I'd like to see MIchael Vick do YEARS of public service at dog rescue organizations. Clean up after the dogs, give them baths, treat their illnesses and injuries and learn to really appreciate the wonderful companions they are. I kind of like an EYE for an EYE too even though I don't believe in capital punishment. I believe in medical research on those who kill others so they'll save lives to make up for the one/s they have taken.

How about PARVO research on Michael Vick???? :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Jane Hurl]

In addition to jail time I'd like to see MIchael Vick do YEARS of public service at dog rescue organizations. Clean up after the dogs, give them baths, treat their illnesses and injuries and learn to really appreciate the wonderful companions they are. I kind of like an EYE for an EYE too even though I don't believe in capital punishment.

I'm with you, MG's, EXCEPT ... in no way, shape or form do I want to see Michael Vick give dogs baths or treat their illnesses and injuries. I had one of these sociopathic types living at my house for 4 years, 4 months and 4 days ... and there is NO WAY I'd EVER leave him alone in the presence of one of my animals ever again. The damage he did was horrendous (and that doesn't even include the lamb whose gut he slit open just so he could watch it die). If I found out he was working at a place that had animals, I'd phone and give them the low down in a heartbeat.

As for capital punishment. I'm in.

[Terry Wallace]

AND NOW...Whoopi Goldberg DEFENDS Michael Vick? Oh Lord....what next?


Maybe Whoopi needs to "see the inside" of a dog fighting ring FIRST HAND.... :lol:

[Cindy]

You know, for someone who seems to be an intelligent human, Whoopie can come up with the STUPIDEST stuff.

[motorgypsy]

Just proves no matter how smart you are you can still talk and act really dumb!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Cindy]

Yeah, I didn't hear exactly what she said but I heard that it was something like "Where he comes from, they dog fight." Please. Where she comes from they do crack. Does that make it right? Not to mention that dog fighting alone was not the entire story. I think it is one thing to dog fight, which is illegal and sick and should not be done. It is quite another thing to kill dogs in the manner in which he allegedly killed dogs. Plus, having grown up in the South myself, I am somewhat offended that her Northern self seems to think that she knows what growing up in the South IS and WHAT goes on here. Talk about stereotyping. :roll:
:soap box

[motorgypsy]

We boarded our horses at a small boarding barn owned by very local SC natives for many generations. Both, very intelligent and very nice people who happen to be proud to be from SC but not of SC's less proud moments or reputation for bigotry.

Well the company the man worked for - I think he was an industrial engineer but has since retired - brought in a young woman from "up north" who questioned the way everything was done in SC and who assumed that all South CArolinians were bigots, racists and respressors of women.

Finally the men in her division had had enough of her comments and superior attitude of "up north we do things like this". Every they saw her coming they would talk about the KKK meeting that weekend, the crosses they were going to burn on the lawns of some local "troublesome black people", how they were going to get drunk and about how many times they beat up on their wives, about the dog fights they were participating and so on. She was so horrified she went to the division director with her story.

The division director knew men personally as well as having worked with them for years so he told her he'd have a word with them. He called them in, rolled his eyes and said "You've been messing with this woman haven't you". The men were sheepish about it but of course confessed to what they had done and promised to stop. He then called in the woman who couldn't believe it was all an act. The director pointed out to her that despite the reputation of the south being a hotbed of all sorts of things like inbreeding and stupidity, the men she was working with were extremely intelligent, good at their jobs and did none of the things that they were talking about when she was in hearing range. They were NOT members of the KKK, did not light crosses on the lawns of neighbors who happened to be black, did not get drunk and beat their spouses nor go to dog fights. That if she had had a bit of sense she would have realized this but SHE was so bigoted against the south in general that she actually believed it.

The point of this lengthy diatribe is that bigotry, cruelty, racism, and stupidity are not just southern traits. They are not the traits of most southerners and to believe that this is true is bigotry in itself. These are unfortunately universal traits of far too many humans and where you come from is not an excuse for any illegal, immoral or cruel action.

I do hope though that all the other men and/or women who were involved are equally punished for being involved in this so called "sport" of blood lust and death.

[Monty]

Before we start stoning anyone - how about watching the View clip ,and listening to a portion of her radio show - then you can make a balanced opinion ;-)

[motorgypsy]

Good advice.

[Cindy]

Sure. Post it.

[Monty]

:oops: THought I had put the link up - Sorry !


Scroll down just a wee bit --- both the clip and her radio comments are linked there - -
http://www.whoopi.com/

[Cindy]

Wish you had posted this sooner. It was very time consuming to actually find. I found her apology the next day pretty quickly but still could not find the actual comments but finally did. And not only has it not changed my opinion, I am now even more incensed by actually seeing the comments made by the person who made them. Since I cannot even fathom a response that would not be deleted by the Administrator of this BB, please refer to my previous post an expound on it ten fold and that is my current response.

[Minouri]

I taught ESL for 15 years. We would get children in my class who did some unusual things. It was nearly impossible to get services for them since everything they did was "cultural".

I had one boy who used to eat poop right out of his pants. My principal tried to tell me that it was probably normal in his culture...lol I said I'd like to know which island/country/religion does that and considers it normal. Come on, just because he speaks Spanish doesn't mean we can't label some of what he does as just not normal.

I'm all for understanding other cultures...but then there are some times when the deed excedes the get out of trouble "culture" pass.