Moniece...Update?

[CarolU]

Tell us how she is doing? How many feedings have you done...any sign that she'll start sucking soon? (you know we don't deal well with suspence!)

(BTW - a friend milked her mare and fed her colt every couple hours for 3 days before he started suckeling...you don't get much sleep, but the product is worth it!) DO NOT GIVE UP!!!

[Terri]

Bump, Moniece where are you? Everything okay?

[appyday]

She needs a quart of colustrum in the first 12 hours...good luck...let us know

[Moniece Dickerson]

Well...she is not going to suckle.The vet says her air got cut off durring birth and told me she has(big H word)wich means she can't suckle.I just finished my third milking and feeding,every two hours.She drinks the milk out of my measuring cup.She got the colostrum(sp) and she is doing great baby gaiting around the stall and run driving Cola nuts.I have to tie Cola to milk her and now that Rosalita is going all over the place Cola is very upset to be tied and it made milking hard.I only got a cup or so this time but thankfully I started out with some.This filly has an apetite i'm telling you.Not this feeding but the one before she took two cups.Randy is going to get me up every two hours 8,10,12,2,4 then he leaves for work and i'll be on my own so I probably won't go to sleep.I may not beable to sleep anyway.I am SO tired but she's worth it!!I'm crazy about her already.Things don't just go perfect for me but hey I got my palomino filly and she is an absolute doll so i'm not complaining one little bit.Just gotta hang in there and take care of milking mom and feeding her.I'll ask the vet to spell the big H word when I check in with him tomorrow so we can all learn from this and maybe Bob could do a phone interview with my vet and write it up to put with her picture in his paper when he puts her in.I'll be back here later.I can not thank you all enough for being here!!!Moniece

[Terri]

OH MY! :shock: Does this mean Moniece will have to milk and feed from a cup for months???

[Linda Y]

She isn't suckling, but is drinking?
Oh, boy this will be one rotten spoiled baby girl! :lol:

[Moniece Dickerson]

If I have to milk for months miss Rosalita is going to learn to tie real early :shock: .I could get Foalac but i'd really rather her have her mom's milk.Moniece

She sounds like she suckles when she drinks and when she tries to suckle the top of Cola's bag???I have to ask the vet tomorrw to make me understand.He explained great but somehow I just can't understand.

[Polly Aulton]

We had one who's mom wouldn't stand still long enuff for the foal to get enuff milk. On day two we started mixing foallac with 12% feed to form a very soft, runny mush. The foal ate it up and grew like the proverbial weed. That would allow you to get a break. You can go about 4 hours between feedings if you do that.
At 6 days you'll have teeth and then you'll really be able to get a break!
Hang in there.
Polly

[appyday]

Oh Monice..good luck this sounds like my Jerry...I pray you a better outcome...I hate to say that...but Jerry was like that too. :(

Prayers your way...be strong I know you will be exhaused..

[CarolU]

Don't give up Moniece!!! You'll be tired for a few days, but those are the most critical. Won't be too long and she can go on foal lac and occasional milkings. Is there someone around who can spell you??

Good LUCK!

[motorgypsy]

http://petplace.compuserve.com/horses/hypoxic-ischemic-encephalopathy-hie/page1.aspx


Hypoxic-Ischemic Encephalopathy(HIE)

Many do just fine. One article said to keep them slightly dehydrated for a couple of days to prevent brain swelling. Just be sure to have a really good vet on call at all times.

[Moniece Dickerson]

Thank you Shelly,I pray for a better outcome too!!!!!

Nope Carol don't worry I won't give up on her nomatter what.I can't,it's not in me and I love her so much already.I have to admit I am sad though.I don't understand why such sad things have to happen to a person all in a row without even a break.Moniece

[CarolU]

Another thing is to rub them a lot...stimulates circulation and breathing.

Moniece...you know we're all plugging for both of you!!! Wish I was closer, I'd really like to help with her.

[Mellifluous]

We are saying prayers for your little gal! I hope she improves quickly!

[motorgypsy]

Moniece you need help with her. I'd call all the horse vets and feed stores and tack shops to see if they know any horse person who can help you out. You can always help them at a later date in return. You just can't do this by yourself. Please read up on this and do the best you can to keep her hydration just on the low side, not dehydrated but not fully hydrated. You might ask the vet about DMSO or cortisone also to minimize brain swelling. Neither should be that costly. The ones who have minimal problems are supposedly OK in a couple of days so let's hope that's all you have to worry about. We can only take one minute at a time and enjoy every minute you have with her because she's truly a precious gift who we hope will live to 40 years of age.

[Moniece Dickerson]

Ok i'm balling my eyes out now after reading that.Yes she is definitely a dummy foal.Kyles, can you please tell me in cups,i'm feeding with a measuring cup,how little milk to feed every two hours?I will not beable to aford a big vet bill so although i'm not giving up on her it doen't look good.Moniece

[appyday]

OMG you have me upset too...so sorry...I pray for the best for you...PM me your number sometime so I can call you...Huggs...I am so sorry

[Buffy111_99]

I am so sorry that you, your family, the mare and the baby are having to go thru all this! Ya really gotta wonder sometimes why good people have to go thru crap! Hang in there and I will be praying for your little one.
Lori H

[CarolU]

Moniece...I am not sure of a hard/fast amount. Feed her often, small amounts, but not enough to fill up. I've raised lots of dairy calves and bummer lambs and the trick is to keep them a little hungry. They'll catch up later on when they aren't stressed any longer.

got this from a article

A normal foal will eat 20 percent of his body weight in kilograms every day. This is essentially 9 to 12 liters of milk for the average sized foal. The total amount should be divided by 24 to give you the amount that you need to feed every hour

[motorgypsy]

Hang in there now. Each minute is a gift. Treasure it and take one minute at a time. Many do very well and totally recover.

Carol said to fill her up the first time, then cut back to a samller amount and feed frequently small amounts. You can tell dehydration by pinching a bit of skin and pulling it up and letting it go. You can also do a search on symptoms in a horse. I think they use capillary refill rate which is really easy. You lift up the upper lip of the horse and and push in on the gum which turns it white, then you time how long it takes to turn pink again. I'll check on it in a minute.

[appyday]

Jerry drank 7-8 oz...every 2 1/2 - 3 hours but he was much larger then the filly

[appyday]

Honestly from what I learned..when Jerry started with seizures it was too late..and sorry he was a solid app colt I was not going to put alot of money in him...I was going to do him at home or.....what happened

If I had it to do again and I had a baby I "really wanted" I would take him/her to a hosp and put them on IV sterioids for one thing..but I was told with Jerry that you can do that..and still have a $5000 foal that falls over or does not live...

Monice what is this foal doing...exactly..how does she spend her time??

Tomorrow see if she will follow mom out of the stall...

Oh I am upset sorry...

good luck

[CarolU]

If you go by the formula...and a small foal, 9 liters would be about 375 ml/hour. That is about 1-1/4 cup per feeding.

Does that help Moniece?

[Moniece Dickerson]

Guys Rosa is all over the place once I help her up and momma will not let me milk or settle when she moves.I have no fol liac (sp) here yet,I thought I could just milk the mare.What if I can hardly feed her anything till morning when I can get some?What will happen to her?What do I do?I'm scared and broken hearted.Moniece

[SQUEAKS]

Moniece

You know Grace and I are praying that all goes well for you. But as the old saying goes Sometimes Bad Things Happen To Good People... Try to keep a positive attitude because you have a lot of folks praying for you and the baby. I can have my vet call you if you want me to. He is one of the best in the state of Florida.


Call me if you need anything we can help with 850-948-6496
Bob

[CarolU]

Moniece, I would call your vet's emergency number. They usually have frozen colostrum. You won't need a lot...just enough to get her through the night.

I have never delt with a mare, but have delt with a cow that wouldn't let us milk her. We tied a dog collar around her one hind leg and one person braced it so she could kick back...but not forward. Then we milked her. It would really help if you had a chute or something similar to keep her from moving.

I hope someone with mare experience has a better idea.

[CarolU]

BTW Moniece, your vet SHOULD have set you up for this this morning when she wasn't nursing. If you vet won't help you...get a NEW vet ASAP.

[motorgypsy]

Moniece 90% of these foals make it and are normal horses. Keep that in mind.

With our goat we had to hold one hind leg up to be able to milk her. With a mare we put a saddle on her and put a very fat, soft rope around her rear ankle and pulled the leg up and wrapped it around the saddle horn to keep the one leg up so we could work with her.

You can also use tarps to section off the stall to keep them in a smaller area so the foal can't wander away from mom and get her upset. just tie them to something so you have a visual barrier. We've had to do this also.

If these don't work then get that vet back out to help you or at least get a vet tec just for a second set of hands to keep the foal with mom so she behaves.

You can do this. You can figure it out and your dream filly will make it. When the going gets tough the tough get going!!! Now DO it!!

[motorgypsy]

Ahhh they do use DMSO on this problem Again ask the vet about a DMSO drip to reduce inflammation. It really sounds like she's in pretty good shape since she's drinking and sucking and moving around well. If you need help though you've got to get the vet back. You'll find a way to pay for it. That's why we have firends helping friends!

[appyday]

Yes milk the mare for as long as you can..I was able to keep up with Jerrys needs (milking Star) for almost 3 days...till I lost him..

FYI Jerry would wonder like he could not see..did not follow mom till the second day...he would run into the walls and his tongue hung out I had to put it in his mouth to feed him...he ran into water buckets and all..

[CarolU]

That's right...Moniece...MOST FOALS make it and do fine. Do NOT give up on her!!! Find a way to milk that mare or get milk from your vet or another. She may surprise you and start nursing tomorrow...they do!

[motorgypsy]

They need 10% of the body weight in fluids daily so oif you can stand on a scale, then pick her up and stand on the scale you can get her weight. If she weight 70 pounds she needs 7 pounds of milk per day. A gallon of milk weighs about 8 pounds to give you an idea of how much your're talking about.

[motorgypsy]

Several articles say you can substitute goats milk for orphan foals. You can buy it canned or in a carton in a lot of grocery stores but it's usually concentrated so you add boiled water (let it cool first) to it. I wouldn't use tap water without boiling it first.

[Heidi]

I wish I lived closer. I'm a night owl and could help.

Be sure to take care of yourself. You'll be no good for anybody if you crack apart. I bottle fed and cared for a litter of 9-day old orphaned kittens...it is difficult, but you can do it. With the foal, though, I think you'll need to get some help, especially to keep the mother calm so you can get the milk the baby needs.
Heidi

[appyday]

MG she is not an orphan no reason she can not milk that mare and save money and best for the baby..I could milk 8 oz in less then 3-4 min on Star she will get the hang of it..practice makes perfect...

It costs hundreds in milk formula for a baby..

[motorgypsy]

Of course if she can milk the mare it's best but she says she's not able to do it by herself because the mare is all upset so better goat milk than no milk.

[Carol Nelson]

Gosh, isn't there someone close who can go help Moniece??? She needs experienced help. Who do we have in Arkansas???
I'm praying for you and your little girl...hang in there, Moniece!

[appyday]

Yes I see that but the mare will settle or I would twitch her and tie her to the wall to do it...I would go in the stall...(left a halter on star and a rope on the walll) I would walk in grap the halter snap the tie..and milk..I am sure when her mare gets tight she will appreciate it..if not that is why twitches are made..

I too like others wish I was closser....wonder how cold it is there??

[Moniece Dickerson]

I got hubby up even though he has to go to work at 4.He was fire mad but he helped me by keeping the foal still and I got almost 2 cups of milk.Enough for a little while.I offered her some but she did not want it.She is not near as bad off as it sounds like Jerry was.Oh my God I hope my foal lives and is ok.My God you guys I think i'll lose it if my foal dies.I'm praying so hard.Moniece

[lalecl]

Just tell me what time you meed to be up. Are you warm outside

[motorgypsy]

Moniec pray when you've done all you can. In the meantime just keep feeding that baby every two hours minimum and if you see any of the symptoms described in that article you call that vet!!! In particular any weird behavior from her because convulsions are what cause brain damage and they CAN be prevented with medication. Get tough for her!!!

[appyday]

I am sorry if I upset you I just read your first post about this and almost died...sorry...

My vet said to bottle feed...I used baby bottle..if you keep pouring it down her she will asperate and you will have pneumonia

get a baby bottle.(human)..push it in her mouth from the front...hold her sides of her mouth with her other hand to close the suction...she will suck that way..Jerrys tongue flopped but he could do it like that...

[DebbieS]

Good luck, Moniece. Prayers to you and baby Rosalita!!

[appyday]

OK Monice this is not to scare her but what I learned from Jerry...befor he had his huge 1/2 hr seizure that he never recovered from..

if she lays with her front legs out...and arches her neck like she is stretching call the vet this is a little seizure befor a big one..

If she walks..arches her neck goes funny for a second or two then when you get her attention she is fine...CALL someone..

[motorgypsy]

Minute by minute, hour by hour, one thing at a time. It's all you can do. But you have to get milk down her one way or another without her inhaling it. We use big syringes a lot for force feeding but you do it just tiny bit at a time and don't tip the head up above parallel so it won't go down into their lungs.

[appyday]

I pmed you my number if you need me in the middle of the night feel free to call....seriously

[Moniece Dickerson]

Well it's 2 am and I just milked and fed.Momma was very affectionate with me and stood still for milking.I had enough for this go around but she let me get the next by myself.The funny stuff first...Rosalita came over to me ,on my knees,with her ears flat pined and eyes wide and got all over me in my space like she was saying i'm big and bad you better be afraid of me.I cracked up and told her you are silly while I got back in her space scratching her then she went back in the stall and momma went with her.It really was just halarious.And now...I don't know if it means anything but she does jerk her head up like she would have just got awakend only she is wide awake and standing.She does go to sleep standing to though and she snores LOL.She gets playful and will try to buck.It's SO cute and funny.I know if she makes it and becomes normal i'll have to stop all that hooey but I just can't right now knowing I could lose her.I just want her to be happy and loved right now.This big girl has two moms that are crazy over her and lots of friends praying for her that she doesn't even know.All I can do when I see her is melt and love her.I sure do treasure every minute i have with her.Well that is it till 4.THANK YOU ALL SOOOOO MUCH for being here!!!!!!!!!!!!!Moniece and the big bad RosalitaLOL

[appyday]

4:30 here....Jerry snored too...its almost what they call the "barking" He would also come over and bump my arm when I was down milking the mare..he even knew I was going to feed him yet he would not nurse on his own...

When you get her nursing from a bottle good you need to get over to the mare and do the bait and switch for the tittie...if not you will be doing this for MONTHS...

good luck and keep us posted...

[Moniece Dickerson]

Yep she is staying over by me and knows i'm getting her food bu doesn't try to get it herself.I believe Cola has made peace with us both being Rosa's mom.She looks after her when i'm not out there and when I go out I feed the baby and she now trusts me to look after the baby as long as she doesn't go far while I get the next feeding from her.Cola has bonded with me through this and is going out of her way now to show me her thanks for helping her baby.Before she wanted to be difficult to catch now she waits for me to get her and tie her.Before she would rather I didn't touch her now she not only takes my love but nuzzles me and keeps her head right about on me.Rosalita is a hoot,she puts those ears back and throws a fit when you make her do something she doesn't want to or won't let her do what she does want to.If this big girl does make it we'll have some atitude work to do.i'd like to keep her on her mothers milk but dang this is killing me,I think I might just have to switch.Well gosh i've got to get some rest.I'll be back later with another update.Moniece

[Edurne]

Moneice, I am so sorry...... I had gone out yesterday thinking we weren't hearing from you because you were probably outside the stall, gooing and gahhing over baby.

Do please follow the good advice you have received - get that bottle.

Can't they do IG transfusions in the barn - I'm pretty sure Cristy has done them here with a foal (Izar) who is now big, brawny and smart.

I hope someone is able to come help you soon - you need support.
Thinking of you and beautiful baby Rosalita.
Edurne

[Terri]

Moniece, I am so sorry you are going through this. I got teared up reading these posts this morning. I will be praying for you. I too wish I was closer. Not that I know anything about foals, but you need someone there with you. Do you have horsey friends close by ?
hugs, and more hugs. But listen to everybody when they say most of these foals make it and keep hoping and praying.

[Blameitonbrio]

Moniece, I am so sorry to hear of your troubles with your dream foal. I will be praying for and thinking of you and Rosalita and Cola all day.

[Terri]

Moniece, I know you are trying to take a nap and I hope you succeed. I was just in the barn thinking about you and praying for you and all I kept thinking is that you need help and you need to not be shy about seeking it out. You can't do it all by yourself for very long. Call your pastor, call you mother's pastor, call churches you don't know, call the county extention service and find out how the 4H leaders are and call them, call local riding clubs,etc. Find horse people and non horse people alike who are willing to come out and help you. The 4H leaders might know responsible older teens who are willing to come learn how to milk and feed and give you rest after school. There might be horse people you dont know sitting in the pews next to you willing to help. Riding clubs are full of people willing to come help a baby horse. Non horse people can cook you a meal, wake you up when you need to or just sit and pray with you in the barn. When Mico was sick, lots of people, horse and nonhorse alike showed up and offered to help. A year ago when my daughter collasped a lung and at the same time Mico was in the horsey hospital, I would come home and find supper on my door step. Sometimes I never even knew who left it. And this is the "frozen " northeast where people are known for being cold and unfriendly. You guys down south have a reputation for helping each other. But people can't help unless you make your need known. So now is the time to call for more hands. Don't be shy. You never know, you might meet people through this that become life long friends. But you are in this for the long haul and if you and Rosalita are going to make it, you need a community around you. Who won't want to help a cute little Palo filly?

[motorgypsy]

Moniece don't give up on trying to get her to suckle. Get the bottle and hold the baby up under mom while she suckles. Little by little hopefully as she gets stronger she'll grab a teat. You do what you have to do but you also try to make things easier on yourself. Ask Candice about feeding an orphan. She actaully slept in a tent at her farm to feed every two hours. You probably remember her wonderfully descriptive story.

[SandyMM]

How about taking some photographs of her to the local newspaper or a little write-up about her to the local radio station... If you don't have the energy, find somebody who could do it for you.... friend, family, somebody who knows you at your feed store or vet's office...

[Carol Nelson]

Agree with those above...you need to find help, Moniece. Ask your vet about others who breed and raise foals. Don't be shy or proud...CALL THEM!!! I have had people call me when their horses are sick and they didn't know what to do...total strangers...and I was happy to help! Chances are some of them will have dealt with your situation. You've got to have help or you will crumble when the going gets real tough and you won't be able to help Rosalita then.

[Starmom]

You and your speacil little foal are in my prayers. I hope she is soon nursing on her own.

[songbird]

Moniece she is gorgeous and it sounds like you're doing well. As Terri suggested try calling around and see if you can find a vet student or 4-h or horsey person who would be willing to give you a hand. You will need to get a good solid sleep soon or you'll be no good to your mare or baby or yourself either.

[Pasogirlz]

Everyone has made great suggestions and I do hope you get some help. You and Rosalita are gonna need as much support as possible. Please don't be shy about asking for help her sake. ;-) We can't have our 2nd Mommie running out of steam too soon. :D

[RR]

I did some leg work and this is what I found in your area.

Daystar Arabian Farm
26110 Hwy 45 Hackett Arkansas
479 639-2401

Double Oaks Ranch
77 Double S Oaks Lane
Midway, Arkansas
72651
Phone: 870-481-5225

Boston Mountain Foxtrotters
Marshall, Arkansas
LANDMARK: Witts Springs, Arkansas
RANCH PHONE: 870-496-2455

Deer Creek Farm
Diane Gooderl
Fayetteville, AR
479-571-5083

BAR FIFTY RANCH - Bismarck - 888-829-9570
CHIEF WHITEHORSE TRAIL - Mayflower - 501-327-7776
FRIGON FARMS - Pine Bluff - 870-534-5795
ROCKING U2 RANCH - Greenbrier - 501-679-5499

I hope some of this helps

[Terry Wallace]

Monice... I'm just getting on the computer.... Holey c-r-a-p....
DO get thay filly up every time you feed her, take her over to her mother and put her head at the udder....DON'T feed her laying down, if at all possible... she needs to move to keep her body stimulated. You need to try and instill in her, that MOM is where dinner is....

I want to tell you right now, I think your filly has good survival odds, by what your descriptions pictured. Don't give up....

REMEMBER MILA.... after day three, she was "over the hump".... I milked that mare every 20 minutes for the first 12 hours, I stayed with that filly for three days.... hang in there....that mare I think will get better & better for you, so keep milking her..... Best of luck....I'm praying hard.... ;-)

[CarolU]

I was sure glad to get up and read all the positive news Moniece. We're all plugging for your Rosie.

I do agree with Shelley's post about the bottle and getting her sucking it and then transfer to the teat. It may take a few days...but it is better then several months of milking and feeding. I also would call and INSIST on treatment at the first sign of a mild seizure. Treat this aggressively. I'm sure there are many here who will help you with vet bills.

Take care of her...she's a dream come true.

[Terry Wallace]

Some ways to transfer rubber nipple to teat, when the filly is ready, would include:

Standing at the side of the mare, with Rosie's head toward the udder, you reach up to the close side of the udder and spray a bit of bottle milk down the side of the udder to the teat, so it drips on her nose or lip, and see if she will take the teat.. This way allows you to have one arm around the haunches of the filly, and one hand to hold bottle/guide filly.

If your mare is o.k. with you having an arm around her hind leg....I prefer to do it this way..... I get the foal up by the mare, but instead of going to the inside of the hind leg with my right arm, I go AROUND the hind leg and come in with the bottle up under the udder, between the teats. This put my bottle in "teat position"...and again, my mares are fine with the idea....(I have fairly long arms)... and this way I can pull the bottle out and guide the mouth....

Just some ideas for you....

I have to say.... I'd like to SMACK the hands of your vet with a ruler...I do not like that he left you so soon...he could have at least made sure that filly was fed right away... JMO

[Cindy]

Moniece, please be sure that your vet does an IgG test today. Don't need to compound your problems. And I agree with the others. You need to find someone to help you out. You will exhaust yourself enough even if you have some help. If you don't have help, you will be of no use to your filly as you will be in never, never land. You need to be able to get some rest through this as you don't know how long it will go on. Good luck.

[appyday]

She called me at O dark thirty...I called her back at 7:20 and 9:20 to get her up...last call she was interupted by the vet...I want to hear what he said..

[Polly Aulton]

Will someone please pm me with Moniece's phone number.
I'm close and can go over and let her get a nice nap.
polly

[paintedhorizon]

How are things this AM?

[appyday]

she is on the phone she is still drinking out of a cup (measuring cup) vet told her not to worry about IgG dont know why? I told her how to milk the mare she did not know how...I told her to not leave the mare with a tight bag but to always milk her to softness so she will continue to produce milk.I told her how to seal the babies mouth around a bottle...and what do get...she is not in the position to buy expensive formula...it is very high...I told her save money and milk the mare..if that baby gets on the bottle she will have a chance of going to nipple..but not if she drinks from a bowl..baby sounds better off then Jerry...I wish her luck and will call her in a couple hours.

[PASOFAN]

(((hugs))) to you and your new baby, I will be praying for yu..

Lots of great advice, here, Keep trying!!

[RR]

Sounds to me like she needs a new vet!

[Moniece Dickerson]

Well in between the last two feedings I managed to get about three hours of sleep and I feel good again other than my back pain and that is just always there.I feel recharged.Thank you Marleen and Shelley for calling me to get me up when I had to and knew i'd turn my alarm off and not even know I did!!Randy just called he is picking up the follac(folliac?) and coming home and giving me a break!The replacer alone will give me a break because the vet said to mix a quart and leave the bucket out there for three up to four hours.Oops time to milk and feed again,i'll be back later.I'll catch up on PM's as soon as I get back on.I have not forgotten anyone and THANK YOU ALL,THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!Moniece

[paintedhorizon]

Mon, I agree with everyone else, get her on a bottle.

[Terry Wallace]

You need a NEW vet...thats all I'm gonna say publically about that...

You need an IgG...she went much too long without milk.
I would not leave foal lac out in a bucket for three hours at this stage, the reason is...it will get filthy with debris and bacteria in that amount of time, likely it will ghet turned over if you don't set it up off the ground a bit, or wire the bucket to the stall wall.... make sure she drinks it in a timely manner...

Personally...I would not want my filly getting any extra bacteria in her gut system at this point when intestinal villi are still open large...I think it is asking for trouble. Foal lac is OK...but is has no colostrum antibodies...the filly will be much better strictly on her dam's milk for the first 48 hours..if she were mine, I would not switch her to foal lac at this time.... read your "mare book"...it will explain just how much time you have to load this filly with colostrum, why it is so important that you follow through with this right now, and why it would lessen the risk of possible problems tomorrow.....

[appyday]

Monice I just read my foal lac package..only give colustrum for the first 2 days...NO FOAL LAC beore the end of day 2....

[SandyMM]

vet told her not to worry about IgG

Every one of our foals gets tested for their IgG level..... no matter how healthy they look.

[Lynn]

Moniece IF for some reason you can't continue to milk your mare or have to take her off of her milk. I would try to find someone who has goats (preferably nubian or toganberg sp?) and tell them your situation they might be able to give you the milk or give it to you cheap. Or heck spend the money to buy a milker if you think you might need the milk long term. We have brought everything from deer and other wild orphans to puppies, kittens and other domestic animals through with the goats milk. But you won't need that if the mare is producing enough milk and letting you milk her. Then all you need to do is get that little girl suckling when she can. Good luck. Sending prayers your way.

I hope she makes it and gets stronger every day. Meanwhile, you are doing everything you can for her. Foals like this do make it and become normal horses in time, so try not to think too much about the future and just concentrate on how much you love her right now. That love and care will bring her through this. You have a lot of expert help here and a lot of good friends.

Rita

[motorgypsy]

Moniece listen to the people on here. They've done this many times. DON'T give that filly foallac if you can get mare's milk. She needs her mom's milk. Second choice is a goat and you sterilize the udder before you milk the goat. Many foals will suckle from a goat also. If you think you're having fun now you just wait until she gets diarrhea from foalac and she will very likely. When my son was a baby and he was four months old and switched over to some formula when we were gone for a while - what a difference in his stool. PEWWWWYYYYY. Mare's milk is just what she needs and in a bottle. You DON'T want to have to foster this baby her entire babyhood. She will learn how to suckle and learn who her mom is. This vet needs to live on a good horse farm for a while. Book learning is not a substitute for doing it. Get the antibody test also. It will make a huge difference in your vet billsl in the future if she needs it now and doesn't get it.

[appyday]

Orphan horse foals drink 5-8 gallons of milk replacer per day per foal. Milk replacer is very expensive. Plan on $100-$150/month per foal

http://www.mustangs4us.com/how_to_raise_orphan_foals.htm

Ulcers can be another issue with orphans due to the amount of stress these foals experience and the particles in the milk re-placer. However, a good preventative measure is to give your foal a DAILY over the counter antacid treatment (like Zantac/Tagment/etc generic form is good). You crush this up and add it to their morning milk.

Remember 2 of my 3 had ulcers...Taki and Dioso are still on ulcer meds..going on 70 days...it is VERY expensive

[PasoJoy]

:( Oh Moniece, so sorry to hear about Rosalita, but you know you love her and will do anything to try and make her well...is there another Vet available around you to give you a second opinion on treatment for her? If so, I would surely call them and have them come out and look at her...
There are a lot of folks on this BB that have a whole lot more experience with babies, and I would surely listen to all this good advice...especially calling around to see if anyone else could help you...not getting enough sleep could be a big factor in your ability to make good decisions, and this is not the time to be 'in a fog'....
Please listen to those on this board who have experience with foals...

[LynnG]

Good luck Moniece with the filly, and keep us posted. If you are having any problems getting milk from the mare's udder, my vet showed me a neat, easy way using a large syringe with the end cut off, and vaccuming/sucking the milk down into the syringe.

[Cindy]

I agree, you need a new vet. Any vet that would tell you that a foal that did not drink for that many hours and is a dummy foal on top of that does not need an IgG test should be whipped like a mad dog and sent back to vet school. And do NOT use the foal-lac unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Not just for convenience. And especially not at this young. If you need help with keeping the mare milked and the foal fed, get it. And please get that IgG test or you may just come through this dummy thing to find that you have a septic foal and it dies anyway.

[CarolU]

I agree, you need a new vet. Any vet that would tell you that a foal that did not drink for that many hours and is a dummy foal on top of that does not need an IgG test should be whipped like a mad dog and sent back to vet school. And do NOT use the foal-lac unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Not just for convenience. And especially not at this young. If you need help with keeping the mare milked and the foal fed, get it. And please get that IgG test or you may just come through this dummy thing to find that you have a septic foal and it dies anyway.

There you go Moniece...I agree with Cindy 300%. I couldn't believe the vet told you not to worry after 12 hours! Then not leave you with colostrum for a dummy foal or help you milk the mare! Now not to do the IgG! That's 3 strikes! :evil:

[Terri]

still thinking and praying for you Moniece. You have been heavy on my heart all day. I am hoping Polly came and you got some good sleep and help. Please keep posting as you can.

[diswick]

I just got online....praying for Rosalita and you, Monice.

Please, please do what the others said, get another vet to come see her and do the IgG test. And if it were me I would still be getting colostrum into her. I am sure some of the horse farm mentioned above have frozen colostrum and I would be begging some from one of them.

Horse breedser stick together to help each other, someone there will help you...

[Ginger]

Yet another reason to have read every book possible on equine husbandry. Sounds like the foal has every chance of doing well- but it'll just take diligence and time.

[motorgypsy]

Bad vet, bad vet, bad vet :realmad :realmad :realmad :realmad :realmad

[Edurne]

YOU NEED A NEW VET - just about everything you have said is contrary to what I have seen here.

1. The baby should have nursed before the vet got there.
2. the vet should not have left without giving you a bottle and nipple and showing you how to milk the mare.
3. The IG whatever test needs to be done. Please get this test done incase you need a transfusion.
4. The milk should not be left out in a bucket, the baby needs to learn to suck and to get stronger sucking muscles.

good luck good luck, we are all praying for you and with you.

[motorgypsy]

For general informatin if our foals aren't suckling in two hours we freak so I can't imagine a vet no over there helping her get that baby eating immediately!!!

[Blameitonbrio]

Maybe someone can get recommendations and contact info for another vet or two for Moniece to contact. Surely someone out there in Pasoland has a vet who can recommend someone in Moniece's area? If I try to put myself in her place, I would feel really overwhelmed and despaired if I had to look for another vet on top of everything else.

And maybe someone in Pasoland knows someone on those other horse farms and could give them a call to see if they can offer any assistance...with Moniece's approval, of course.

[Laura S]

I am praying for you, Moniece and Rosalita. She sounds like a little spitfire! I am praying that attitude will help get her thru this healthy. Hang in there............

[GeorgeGuns]

Boy did I miss a lot today!

Your vet is dammed lazy. Sorry, thats blunt but JEEZE I'm with the Posse.

I wouldn't do any kind of milk replacer at this time either. Not just for the bacteria stuff (BIG concern) but also because it will confuse her. Milk the mare for all its worth, refridgerate it if ya have to and heat it up to feed.

Get some Pediasorb EQ to have on hand, and some Probios. I got a funny feeling this filly is gonna start spurtin poooooooo and you need to be ready. I'd do the probios asap and maybe even a dose of the Pediasorb just to be safe.

Gawd Moniece, you don't deserve this trial, I'm prayin hard for you and Rosalita.

[appyday]

Pediasorb is the bomb...cost me $12.50 day to do the girls on gel and $10 day on the powder....at 2 X day..then got them to 1 X day...1/2 the cost...WORTH EVERY PENNY THAT STUFF IS DA BOMB

[Polly Aulton]

I have volunteered to spell Moniece. We're about 90 minutes away and will be more than happy to fill in from time to time. She swears she will call me. I suggest you encourage her.
Polly

[appyday]

Oh and they found most probiotics need to be used like 5 X dosage..girls went threw that for 60 days too...LOTS OF IT..

[Brigitte]

Moniece- Keep it up, follow everyone's advice they know what they're talking about. Good luck, will be praying for you !

[Terry Wallace]

For general info too.... right behind mtorgypsys..... I don't let them go longer than two hours either.... to let one go 12 is to court trouble, its just a loss of precious time....
for absolutelty NO good reason.....
time that you CANNOT make up....

Let us know how things are going Monice.... keep milking the mare ;-) ;-)

[Edurne]

In reading all the posts, I wonder if it has been mentioned that once the mare's milk comes in she will be producing more than she did in the first few hours, which is mainly colostrum. She should then produce enough to get extra to refrigerate and have ready for feedings. Hope the baby gets tested.

[motorgypsy]

OK guys - is anyone talking to her on the phone? Can't stand not knowing what's going on. This is terrible!!! We want her to be fine so badly it hurts!!!

[hast]

OK guys - is anyone talking to her on the phone? Can't stand not knowing what's going on. This is terrible!!! We want her to be fine so badly it hurts!!!

Ditto.

[Carol Nelson]

Agree with motorgypsies! We need to know...can't bring us this far and not keep us updated!!!

[Moniece Dickerson]

I'll be back right after milking and feeding with an update...a great one :D !!Moniece

[CarolU]

I'll be back right after milking and feeding with an update...a great one :D !!Moniece

HOORAY!!! That is good news...and we wait for it anxiously!

Edurne had a good point...when Cola's milk comes in, you should be able to milk her and store some for the night feedings so you don't have to milk at midnight!

And DO CALL POLLY TOMORROW and get some rest!

[hast]

It sounds like some dancing carrots are in order http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c263/hastflicka/smilies/pepper.gif http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c263/hastflicka/smilies/pepper.gif http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c263/hastflicka/smilies/pepper.gif

[Terri]

A good report???? OH boy! When we gonna here??? How long will it take her to feed an milk. Inquiring minds need to know. Come one Rosalita.... We are pulling for you little one!

[Moniece Dickerson]

Rosalita has definitely shown good improvement today!She gets up on her own now,she is staying with Cola now,and has SUCKLED on Randy's fingers!!!!I printed what it said at the link that the Kyle's,I believe,posted about dummy foals and Randy took it to work and read it and has become a HUGE help and he's off for the weekend!You know,Polly brought up that she may not be a dummy foal,it COULD be that she was born almost three weeks early.Don't know WHY I didn't think of that before!I have replacer here but i'm still milking and feeding the mares milk every two hours and i'm giving her just a little more now.She has definitely not lost weight and if anything has put on just a tad.Well i'm not feeling good I need to eat.Be back later!Moniece

[appyday]

Great...keep us updated

http://forums.somd.com/images/smilies/thewave.gif

[Barbwire]

WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terri]

Yeah Rosalita. Go, Go little girl!!!!
You are right Moniece, she is early, So it maybe just a "premie" thing. :rearing

and this is for you Moniece. :hug

[SandyMM]

That's great news... mare's milk is best... the more you milk her, the more she should produce....

Good luck!

[CarolU]

That is good news...no, that is GREAT news!

Now...get that bottle, get her sucking on it good, and then work her over onto Cola! You may be getting a full night's sleep by mid week!!!

GO ROSALITA!!! :D :D :D :D

[CarolU]

BTW Moniece...did you manage to get some new pictures today???

You know how we are about those!!! LOL

[DebbieS]

Yes!! I'm so happy she is eating well. Poor Moniece, you must be exhausted. Are you taking time off work to take care of Rosalita??

Email pics to me if you want them posted. I'm not as good at checking email on the weekends but I'll sure try. Stock Show this weekend, ya know ;-)

I'm so PROUD of you!!

[GeorgeGuns]

it COULD be that she was born almost three weeks early

Well...... yeah it could. Cascabel did the same thing - born at 309-312 days, but unlike Rosa, she bounced off hte walls for 3 hours (literally, bump and bounce) and wore herself out so we had to tube her, but my vet wasn't gonna wait more than 3 hours (me neither). Waiting, like I said, causes low blood sugar. The brain and central nervous system works ONLY on sugar, so if its low, this is exactly what can happen - baby ain't thinkin right. Moniece I really feel for you, cuz you are the one skinnin teeth these past few days making this baby work and GOOD JOB, LADY. I still think that if your vet had had the bouncing-daddy-bags to tube that filly right off, she might have been doing much better much faster... but I'm a hooftrimmer, lol, wuddu-eyeno. I'd still keep Pediasorb and probios on hand even after she is nursing well.

and God bless your hubby for perking his interest in this. Men are so funny, I bet he tries to make it his baby now, lol!!!

[jodiTowne]

I'm rooting for you! Sounds like things are looking up and hope they continue that way!! Have NO experience with foals ,but nursing every two hours I do!! My twins were a month early and very difficult to nurse. Took an hour and a half to nurse/feed them, half hour to eat/pee/crash, then back at it. Honestly not sure how I survived.....You will and the rewards will be great. Now, tomorrow I expect a good update and pics......

[Terry Wallace]

You will be able to tell by observing the behavior, if it is prematurity or not. Premature foals have short, soft hair... they often are crooked form lack of cartilidge development. Mila had a strong suckle instinct. I don't think from your descriptions that it is prematurity...the filly looked well developed and large.

I'm glad things are moving forward in a positive manner... I just want to add once more to not feed the foal lac, and milk the mare instead....get her on a teat tomorrow if at all possible...

[motorgypsy]

Remember dummy foals come in all variations from very mild to very severe. She doesn't look preemy. It could just be low blood sugar from not finding mom soon enough. Those first few hours are terrifying until they are suckling and acting normal and dry and warm. Get the bottle and keep giving the mare's milk. Don't try that supplement. You need to get her suckling from mom and with hubby's help you should be able to. We're holding our breath that she recovers very quickly!!!!

[Heidi]

Yea! I think it is great that hubby Randy is getting involved. That filly is surrounded with LOVE!
Heidi

[Brigitte]

Great to hear!!

[Edurne]

Another thing I remember from Izar's bottle feedings, were that she would drink more from the bottle than she did from the mare, and therefore would sleep longer. So once the baby is sucking, you can supplement with the bottle.
Mother's milk is best.

[Moniece Dickerson]

SOOOOO CLOSE but SO far!!!She followed my finger almost right to the teat!!!OMG you should have been able to feel my hope and excitement!!!Gosh darn it this girl is gonna make it and have me SOOOO wraped!She loves Randy's voice.She wags her tail like a dog when he talkes to her and it stops when he stops then starts again when he starts!He's thinking she will be HIS horse :shock: !I'M thinking i'll share but that girl is MINE!You guys,I think she is doing great and what a good precous girl she is!!!If my eyes are not tricking me I think her eyeliner might just be starting to darken.Amazing how they can bring you right to your knees!Moniece

[Terri]

Oh, Moniece, she is going to make it! I just KNOW it. You are doing a great job. And remember look for help as you need it. Leila told me that many horses don't make it because the owners get to tired to carry on. Don't let that happen to you.
She is a beautiful little girl and I look forward to watching pictures of her growing up. You need to learn to post picutes!

[Blameitonbrio]

Oh Moniece, it sounds like things have turned around, and that liitle filly has a complete circle of love around her. Of course, you might have to share her with hubby now! :D

[Jane Hurl]

I thought I read that the foal is 3 weeks preemie. If that's the case, it could well be that she simply doesn't have a strong suckle reflex yet. That happens with our lambs from time to time. As long as you don't let her get TOO used to the bottle, everything will be fine. Just make sure she's getting that colostrum. It's critical.

Boy, my thoughts sure are with you, Moniece. I'd be a basket case! (But the trick is to hold the falling apart bit 'til after the crisis ... right? *wink*)

[PasoJoy]

Any updates for us, Moniece??? I need to hear some more good news about Rosalita before I go to work!!

[Moniece Dickerson]

I'll post an update ASAP after milking and feeding...she will now put her mouth to the nipple and lick when i'm down milking :D :D :D --WE'RE getting CLOSER AND CLOSER!!!!!A full update soon,gotta go.Moniece

[Carol Nelson]

Moniece, just a thought...what happens when you push her towards the nipple when you're milking...just short little pushes on her bottom...if you push long and hard, they back up. I would take my arm and put it lightly around their butt and just gently push, push, push on them to go forward. Many times they overshoot, but even the licking on the legs or belly sometimes causes momma to squirt milk all over their little faces and then I can guide their mouths to the nipple with a hand gently under the chin.
I sure wish I could be there to help you, girl...you're doing just marvelous! I don't know if I'M even able to take on milking a mare every two hours and hand feeding! :smile:

[SQUEAKS]

Great Moniece. We all know you have your hands full...no pun intended :D anyway when ya get the chance let us know how things are going...Good Luck

Bob & Grace :D :D

Thats great!

I think its time to update on her pics or some of the action!
:PICS

well after today!

[Moniece Dickerson]

Rosa is doing SO well her steps forward each time she makes one just excite and tickle me pink!And Momma,momma produced more milk this time than i've ever gotten from her.A little over 4 cups!My arms are killing me but hey i'll take the aching(sp) with a smile,the best kind of ache i've ever had!The only problem I have now is that momma does not want Rosa messing around down by the bag anymore :-(.When she is held though,didn't have Randy this go around,she tollerates it better.I'm going to have to ask Randy for help more now at this point because we are WAY too close to ruine it now.And if I don't have nursing by Monday i'll HAVE to call that arabian farm in my town that she posted the info for to ask for help durring the day when Randy is at work.NO WAY am I gonna let her back slide now!!!I am having problems with the link paypal emailed me to get to the actual reset my password page.Does anyone know if I can just skip it and set up a new acct.?I'm gonna try and if not i'll keep working on it.This girl has come way too far to scrue it up now.And as humiated as I am that I have to admitt to everyone that we are so broke it's not about me,it's about that baby girl out there and I do need help for her.
IF my mare starts to dry up and I need to use the replacer aside of switching slowly do I feed more to allow for diaria and dehidration she might get?Or do I give her some water?Or?
Can someone send me or have sent to me that probios or whatever the stuff is that I should be giving her?I know there is something,learned that from Shelley's posts about her girls,but I don't know what it is or have the money.
I have more questions but I can't think of them now.
I'm going to try to answer posts now.I could not do this without you all so please pat yourself on the back for me :notworthy .Moniece and baby Rosalita

[ErinC]

Yes you need them ,
Let us all know when you have the Pay Pal thing set up!


http://equisearch.com/horses_care/health/alternative_therapies/eqprobiotic041304/

[appyday]

Monise that mare will NOT dry up if you milk her till her bag is placid like I told you. Do not ever leave the barn with the bag firm..

Any probiotic will work I was told to give 4 X the direction amount..dont give with mares milk just if you go to formula and she gets diarrhea..remember mine were on it because of long term antibiotics.

Make that mare stand...twitch her...tie her...I have had first time moms not like the baby trying to nurse at first and I would put a chain on them shank them and make them let the baby nurse..dont let her have it her way...make her stand...milk or feed the baby then feed her afterward if she is good..if not you are nicer then me I would leave her tied to the wall till next feeding..

Did you decide not to do the IgG?

How much milk has she consumed in the last 24 hours??

Good luck...keep it up

[CarolU]

Moniece, they have probios at the feed store in a large tub or in a tube. A tube guarentees they get the amount you give them. Once she is on pellets you can add the powdered probios to them...BUT totally agree with Shelley. Keep milking Cola and MAKE HER stand...You might try making a stock out of coral panels...you won't need two people then. They also have the twitches that you put on and don't have to hold.

[Edurne]

remember that if she is a first time mom she is not used to having her teats worked with (especially if you haven't done brood mare preparation massage) to put it politely. Also they could be sore initially, don't give up, it will get easier every day. Twitch the mare if you have to. It is not the worse thing in the world. The more you milk her the more milk she will produce. It is a supply and demand thing.

[CarolU]

BTW - Cola has had foals before...if I remember, 3??

[GeorgeGuns]

If momma is getting cranky about Rosa being at her rear end, I'd call the arabian farm NOW, and don't leave the pair unattended, it may or may not progress to all out rejection. Something you may try too is to get a little milk off the mare first before trying to take Rosa to the nipple - mare may be reacting to the extreme need to get the pressure of a full bag down some and by now she knows that filly ain't up to the task in a big hurry. Full ninnies hurt! Mare knows that YOU know how to get it done.

For milk replacer, if you have to go to it, only mix the same amount as what the Rosa is drinking, and keep her on the same schedule. Foals will usually slurp it up pretty quick if its a timed feeding, if left they may play with it, spill it, and as mentioned before, it will get dirtied. You can switch cold turky to the replacer, but be prepared for some finicky eating, some wastage of the replacer, and resorting to mare's milk til Rosa decides the replacer is okay to take in. The replacer itself should not cause diarrhea, but yes if it gets dirty it will be messy comin out the other end and you'll be payin for antibiotics too, and possibly IV fluids...

[Tina Calhoun]

Four years ago our Margarita Dos was born. She is now a very healthy independent mare. Her mother did not produce any milk. So for 3 months we fed her with Land of Lakes Milk Replacement. A fabulous product. You mix it up and keep a supply in the refigerator. We would mix up a pitcher full at a time and never, ever have a problem with it spoiling. We poured it in a bowl and never allowed it to become contaminated. It worked great!

Our filly drank the milk out of a bowl and it only took about 1 minute after she got use to it. This is probably the best solution for you.

Southern States carries the product but other feed stores should as well. It comes in big drums and costs about $50 each. It will last a very long time.

We wish you luck...

Tina Calhoun

[Dianne]

gees 10 pages worth!!! :lol: ok ...IF you still need help pm me and Becky is in a position to come help you....really...you got a bed she can sleep in she is willing and you can get some rest k?

LOTS of prayers for your special baby!

[Moniece Dickerson]

Just a quicky update guys,Randy is getting a little grouchy about me wanting to get on instead of going right to sleep.Rosalita is still doing great and at 4am she'll be 3 days old.Gosh is seems like more than 3 days i've been doing this.Gonna get new pictures tomorrow.Chica is really acting up now and we are having to deal with her as well but we can.Cola still giving good milk.Randy is getting tired of me doing this and wants me to use the replacer so bad but i've not given in.Crud he's calling me to bed,sorry,i'll try to give a better one later.Moniece and baby Rosalita

[Moniece Dickerson]

Just a quicky update guys,Randy is getting a little grouchy about me wanting to get on instead of going right to sleep.Rosalita is still doing great and at 4am she'll be 3 days old.Gosh is seems like more than 3 days i've been doing this.Gonna get new pictures tomorrow.Chica is really acting up now and we are having to deal with her as well but we can.Cola still giving good milk.Randy is getting tired of me doing this and wants me to use the replacer so bad but i've not given in.Crud he's calling me to bed,sorry,i'll try to give a better one later.Moniece and baby Rosalita

[GeorgeGuns]

Aw, Randy's first concern is YOU, and that's natural. Its a man thing. Your first concern is a baby and that is a girl thing. Do what ya gotta do and we are all behind ya.

[Moniece Dickerson]

Carol this is Cola's second foal.Her first was a colt that looks just like this filly and she had no problems with him at all.Would like to know what you all think about me increasing her milk intake at each feeding.She's definitely wanting more and yes she does suck it down awful quick.She is still doing great!Moniece


Editing to add:Wow I gave her three cups this feeding and she would have taken more.Mom wanted to be kicky this time...the first time but she WAS irritated about being tied while Chica was right there.We may move Chica tomorrow to the little pasture I used to keep the girls at down the road.We had no choice but to let her out of the goat pen because it rained all morning and afternoon and the pen was a muddy mess and then she started running around it and I just knew she would slip and really hurt herself.Rosalita is growing and putting on weight.Do you think it's time to up her to three cups a feeding?I thought they stayed at the same for a week but she wants more and even at three cups I can leave her a little hungry.Boy oh boy what a little spitfire she is.It's halarius.And her gait-WOW!

[Edurne]

personally I would give her more.... they can take more feed from the bottle than they will from the mare because they are not working as hard.... then they will sleep longer and so should YOU. ...... then as baby's sucking gets stronger you can keep trying to get her to latch..... any success there.?

[Terri]

3 cups! that is great! is it still every 2 hours? Does she drink from a bottle yet or is she still drinking from a bowl? Is this just how she "learned" to eat? Do you think Moniece can maybe still get her to suckle or is it to late now that she has learned food comes in a bowl. I don't know anything about horsey babies, and this has been educational. Do we still think she was a "dummy" foal (and I am not sure I totally understand what that means) or a premie that didn't learn how to suckle right or was it as was suggested originally that something happen to her windpipe during birth that discouraged suckling?
I am hoping Moniece is resting between feedings, so maybe some body else can enlighten a "dummy" human who doesn't completely understand why this happened.
Thanks

[CarolU]

Moniece, I would only increase the volume SLOWLY. That is the biggest mistake people make with babies is overfeeding them. If you don't have a weight tape (and I don't think they measure that small anyway) use a tape measure and measure her each day...increase the milk by how much she grows.

I would move Chica completely away from Cola and Rosalita...a mare and her new foal should be ALONE together for the first week. I don't blame Cola a bit for being fussy about Chica near her foal. (BTW - i expect Zar to try to STEAL Bella's foal, so she will definately be seperated)

I can see why Randy would like you to switch to milk replacer, but hold off as long as you can - for several reasons:

1) there are antibiotides and nutrients in the mare's milk that aren't in the replacement - can't beat mare's milk

2) replacement COSTS $$$ and Cola's milk is FREE

3) the only effort you'll be out is milking. You'll still have to feed at the same frequency, every few hours to avoid ulcers.

4) I would not give up getting her to suckle and over on Cola. I'm not sure how much you've tried, but is she sucking the bottle yet??? Once she is doing that, it should not be hard to transfer her to Mom.

Before I switched her over and let Cola dry up (and you'll have to watch her closely and maybe treat for mastitis), you should do a cost/benefit analysis about how much money it will cost you in replacer. Milking is FREE and you're not working right now so it's not costing you anything but time.

Good luck!!!

[Edurne]

does anyone know the ounces that the baby should be getting? Human babies like small amounts frequently.

[GeorgeGuns]

Carol's advice on the replacer is good.. I've seen younger foals take up to a liter at a time when I worked at Leesburg, but mostly these were TB type foals - bigger to start with. Also figure that young foals mey nurse every 20 minutes if the mare will let them IOW they are pigs in foal fur. I have not had enough coffee to do math so I can't tell ya how liters translates to cups. If I could remember how many cups are in a pint...

I kind of have the heebies about Chica being moved. Yes you need the horses to settle down, but if you move Chica will SHE stay safe? If she is already being upset, maybe she just needs some time to adjust to the new home arrangement. Unless there are other horses in that other pasture, I wouldn't move her, maybe try to just cordon off where she is "intruding" on Cola and Rosa. Horses need company, even if its cranky company.

[appyday]

I never leave my mares w/babies out with other mares for a long time...I would separate them..are you making the mare sore when you milk her..are you really pitching the titties?? remember you can do alot of work right at the base of the bag without touching the end of the tittie...and dont let her get tight...remember always leave her placid.

[Edurne]

I have to admit that I am used to being around bigger sized babies than pasos, and it surprised me yesterday when Coreen told me that they only weighed the same as a medium/largish dog. Heck, the 9 month weanlings are bigger than Primero.

[Tina Calhoun]

Follow the instructions of the manufacturer. We fed a hefty amount as you are and did not have any problems. Our foal was very weak and required the nutrition. Ask your vet what he or she would recommend.

[motorgypsy]

I agree with separate but not out of sight. We had to separate ours when we had babies.

You increase very slowly but of course you do increase as the baby is growing and mom is producing more milk. Once she makes it a week your problems with convulsions have been greatly reduced, If you show Randy how much the milk replacer is going to cost you he might think twice about wanting you to switch. An orphan mini about ran our friend broke with milk replacer let alone a full sized small horse. Show him the cost and the time isn't that much less because you have to clean everything so well and boil water (no tap water is not safe) and so on. Don't give the baby unboiled tap water PLEASE.

Do try to get her suckling or call the people who have volunteered to help you. You need help here!!

[appyday]

Ask Appy about the cost of replacer...Oh forget it I already told you...

[PattiB]

When my mare died seven years ago we feed the filly milk replacer. My vet said to feed her as much as she would eat in a 1/2 hour. She ate the recommended amount for a draft horse foal :shock: It was not cheap to use Foal-lac but I found another brand that was half the cost but it still cost about $50 a week. We feed her Equine Jr in a creep feeder and she chowed down it it too! She grew to be 14.3 hands so she was not stunted by it at all. If I could have found a donor mare that is the route I would have taken but we couldn't find one for over a week, by then she was drinking out of a bowl.

[Moniece Dickerson]

Could not get on when I tried earlier to give an update.Rosalita is still doing great and she *MIGHT* be sucking on mom behind my back.Last night I could get over 4 cups of milk today only 1 1/2 cups at feeding???AND we saw her go for the teat although mom id kinda kicking at her.Maybe Rosa is rougher with her???I'm gonna be watching real close!At any rate because of the milk reduction,till I know 100% different,she now gets replacer as well as moms milk that I can get.I emailed new this morning pictures to Barb,I believe was the one,to post for everyone.Seven of them LOL two of her playing that I love,one she was bucking.If she can not post them I will send them to someone else tonight so they can be posted.She has gained alot.She steped on my foot today and it hurt.Chica is moving down the road tomorrow for a little while so mom and baby can get out of the stall and run and get some exercise.I can't wait for you all to see how she's looking!When I look at her I have to say i'm proud of myself.I have not done PM's yet and don't think I can till later tonight,to keep hubby not upset.My mom is going to come help me tomorrow and from there if I need help I may have to ask Polly.Gonna look over the BB real fast then i'll be back later.We're doing good people,we're doing good :D :D !!Doing test as soon as a little money gets here :D :D !!Moniece and baby Rosalita

[Barbwire]

I didn't get the pics, please send them again Mo.

[appyday]

Monise...can you hobble this mare??

You WILL know if the baby drank...when you go back is the bag full or placid? go a 4 hr stretch tomorrow when you go back if the bag is tight the baby is not drinking...if it is placid go another couple hours..sneak in and watch the baby..