Barefoot Trim

[SandyMM]

Well - I had a barefoot trim specialist out to do 7 of our horses today. I have to say that so far I am very pleased with the job she did. She was especially good around the horses and explained everything she did in appropriate detail. 2 months ago our reguar farrier lamed Pete and Emi so badly that we had them on Banamine and stall rest as they were in so much pain! After a few days we dropped the Banamine, but it has been a long haul back... :-?

The barefoot trim method used by this person is fairly conservative, but I could see a lot of old damage caused by the previous regular farrier as she pointed over consistent patterns of uneven and overlooked trimming. She is scheduled to come back out in 4 weeks to do a follow-up and to get my guys back to healthy hooves. Basically, she said the hooves were growing out healthy but running into problems caused by some odd trimming practices... I'll be watching to see how it goes...

[Terry Wallace]

What was the "odd trimming practice" she referred to? Incorrect angle?
Just wondering...

[GeorgeGuns]

I'm making assumptions here:

Most horses that go sore after a trim or shoeing do so because live sole is invaded. There is absolutely no reason to thin sole ever. Ever. This causes a multitude of problems.
First, the thinned sole cannot support the coffin bone, and that is its primary purpose. Any farrier or trimmer that has become acquaitned with a good toe callous knows that this area of the hoof is often (usually in well done horses) harder than the hoof wall. Take that away and the hoof is now very weakened. Most perforated founders are due to soles that have already been thinned.
Second, the thin sole can't do its job and may flatten, this is the most common reason horses are labeled "flat footed". Let them regrow that sole callous, don't cut under there except for chalkly stuff near the frog, and concavity can return rather quickly.
Third, a thinned sole leads to bruising. It may be diffuse and not readily apparent, or may totally lame a horse. Either way, this bruising, if widespread enough, becomes "subsolar" bruise and can even abcess. What heppens here is that the layer of bruising becomes a separate layer, and the bottom of the coffin bone has to regrow good sole. Below the bruise layer, the old sole becomes a "false sole" which for a while is protective and allows the new sole to grow in un traumatized. False soles can pack up in pretty weird ways though (they can also be caused by extremely overgrown bars, but thats a different thread..) and can start to perpetuate the bruising and false sole process if the hoof does not recieve proper wear or trimming. The false sole and bruise layers also set us an ideal situation for nasty bugs to have a big party, leading to subsolar abcessing and "pedal osteitis'.
Fourth, since the sole is weakened, the whole hoof is weakened, flares happen more easily, and flares hurt. (many horses can be made more comfy on rough terrain just by completely addressing flares esp at the toe). Often though, esp in long term sole thinning, the sole will migrate forward with the flare, so we don't see a stretched whiteline. A thinned sole can flatten as mentioned, and that surface area has to go somewhere, forward is usually the path of least resistance. This in turn pulls the frog and heels forward, leading to contracted or underslung heels, weak nasty frogs and overall poor hoof.

Okay, nuff'o that, Sandy I'm really glad you got yourself a good trimmer! Stick religiously to a 4 week schedule (unless you are riding enough to wear the walls a bit) and you will probably never have another problem!

[SandyMM]

Coreen - you have hit the nail on the head... 85% of what you described was happening to our horses - with regularly scheduled farrier work!

Overgrown bars??? I was _shocked_ when she showed me that _several_ of our horses had them - with _regular_ farrier 'work' by a very experienced farrier.... With the _years_ I have spent looking at horses' feet, I am appalled at the things I had overlooked, taken for granted, or was simply unaware of!

Best of all - Marian was _extremely_ helpful by describing _why_ she was doing what she was doing... it made sense to me - very common sense and logical. In addition, she offered - more than once - to help me learn how to do touch-ups ('do no harm') in-between scheduled visits.

She did 7 horses, photographed them all before and after. Should have some pix to share soon. How many farriers do you know that email the next day to follow-up on your horses/their work???

Her website is http://www.nakedhoof.net

And as a particular plus... she's a Mac user who is very well-versed in creating custom databases! I _knew_ I liked her!

[Boyd R]

was this Penny I just sarted using her.

[Pasolady]

Bravo Sandy! You've seen how tough my boys feet are, they have been bare foot for 4 years now. No shoes, proper trimming, no sore feet, we just book it over hill and dale, gravel, dirt, grass whatever. My farrier is constantly studying, doing and going to seminars, he uses what works and dicards the rest. He is the one who got me away from shoeing, and doing the PROPER BAREFOOT NATURAL TRIM.

You're gonna luv it more with each trim, saves a bundle of farrier work,my boys travel true and smooth and are very agile over all terrain. Welcome to the wonderful world of barefoot equines!

[SandyMM]

Marian Figley is who came out to work on mine.

My Pasos have _always_ been barefoot, but previously they got a 'regular' or what they call a 'pasture' trim around here.... _totally_ different from a 'natural barefoot trim'! There are several variations on the trim and some are more agressive than others. My new farrier uses the Mustang version.

[GeorgeGuns]

Cool, you got the Naked Hoof Lady! I'm just as anal about getting back to my clients esp if there is a problem that is bugging me, or if I remember a part of conversation where they seemed to be a bit sensory overloaded with info. I do a lot of recapping of info. Any good trimmer or farrier should do this - communicate with the owner, at least on premesis. Folks that come and do their job and leave without much to say bug me.

A bad trim is every bit as harmful as a bad shoeing, and its a plain shame that too few farrier schools are teaching anything close to a natural trim.

[SandyMM]

Marian emailed me and said she would have some pictures for me later tonight.... I'll post them as soon as I get them.

We longed Pete and Emi tonight as we didn't have time to ride. Both of them were moving very comfortably and actually seemed - subtly - to be moving 'differently'... nothing I could put my finger on. but they just moved differently - better....

[GeorgeGuns]

LOL - yes its that intangible sense of freedom a horse gets when their hoofies feel liberated from discomfort, and their bodies no longer have to compensate for foot baggage. Shoulders flatten, toplines improve, croups and butts get a little rounder, necks get prouder... its pretty neat!

[SandyMM]

Well, we still have a long way to go - but if this first trim for them is any indication of the good things to come - I am impressed and will be anxious to see what future trimmings hold in store.

And - in the back of my mind - I am thinking back to some 'flat-footed' horses I know and wondering if this type of trim wouldn't be advantageous for them too...

[GeorgeGuns]

Yes it does benefit flat footed horses! Pete Ramey's book has a beautiful description about how to let concavity grow in and not be cut in. It took me a few readings to "get it" (I can be dense) then I realized I was already trimming like that anyway: trim the crappy chalky stuff and leave the good sole alone, aggressively address flares, and know where to put the heels, etc. Usually on a flat horse there is chalky stuff right around the tip of the frog - that has to go, and concavity will form outward from that. Its a pretty amazing process. All the flatties I've done have started to show concavity before the second trim.

One other aspect, and this is important for pasos, is diet. For some reason, if they are insulin resistant, cushingoid, or in some cases just fat, they will drop their soles first before any other signs of laminitis or pain. Close inspection may show some lightly stretched whiteline as the diet probably has too much sugar for that horse, and that may be just enough for these horses to drop. Diet is one of the first things I look at if a horse is flat and no other apparent reason to suspact a chronic laminitic situation. (ie: hoof has good overall shape, no flaring, no contraction, healthy looing frog, quarters intact and naturally relieved).

[pasocal]

:?: What is the major differences between the Ramey/Jackson and Strasser philosophies/methods of barefoot/natural trims? :?:
Thanks,
Gay

[SandyMM]

Can't help you with the differences yet, but I can say that I am impressed with the amount of training these barefoot trimmers go through to get fully certified...
http://www.aanhcp.org/page21.html

At our second session with our new trimmer, Marian, she admitted that she was 'blindsided' by the condition of our horses' feet. Now these are horses who were_regularly_ trimmed by a knowledgeable farrier of many decades experience and who was head and shoulders above any others that we had used! She pointed out problems that our previous farrier passed over or even, possibly, caused through omission (?) I had already begun to have some doubts when someone I trust did Emi's feet this past spring and found noticeable uneveness between each side of the heels on more than one hoof... after a relatively 'fresh' trim.

At this second session four weeks out from the first trims, I could see an _obvious_ difference in the health of the hooves. I'm already recognizing more conditions both good and bad - and this is after decades of looking at horses' feet! It just seems very logical to me. One of the biggest improvements has come in a 12 year old gelding we sort of 'rescued' from an auction purchase. He was in good health and no behavior problems, but when we first saw him he had 'muley' feet shod with very small, narrow shoes with heel blocks and borium 'spots' welded on for traction. His feet were extremely upright. After only 4 weeks, his badly contracted heels are opening up and spreading out to a more natural shape. His hooves are looking more horse than mule....

All of our horses seem to behave much better for the new trimmer/farrier than for any of our previous regular farriers. She actually enjoys the horses themselves and I think they sense that.

We have had some issues with white line, but with no basic changes other than the first trim, all feet looked _much_ improved and healthier in just four weeks - even on those who have been out in wet pens due to some cold, wet weather here (and why is it that they'd rather stand in a puddle than go inside a dry stall 3 feet away?!? :-P)

All in all - we consider this a big improvement over our previous experiences with local farriers. We appreciate the detailed information she gives us on the physiology and reasons behind what and how she decides to approach each foot. She also provides a written evaluation of each horse at the end of the appointment - which she reviews prior to each suceeding appointment.

Although these trims are slightly more expensive than previous prices we have paid, Marian says we can move out to 6 weeks for the next session - when I was willing to go again at four weeks. Nice to know your trimmer bases future appointments on the horses' needs, not on how close together she can schedule appointments.

[GeorgeGuns]

All of our horses seem to behave much better for the new trimmer/farrier than for any of our previous regular farriers.

This is definately one of the percs! Invariably, if the horse doesn't figure it out during the first trim, they sure do by the second - comfort is worth a lot of good behavior! LOL, one horse I did the first time, I tried so hard to be respectful of his pain - recent founder, sole removed due to abcesses but partially covered by the time I saw him. He hurt. His owner told me that normally he is a big suck-up, yet his parting words to me that day were $#@&% with his ears flat! I hung a round a while for some beverage and chat, and his owner commented that he was already moving better... Next visit that horse came right to me and was a perfect gentleman! They aren't stupid. Stuff like this happens all the time!