What do you use?

[PASOFAN]

As far as head gear goes what kind of bridal/bits do you use?

I dont use a bit, prabably never will. I bought a paso Bosal which is a leather chin band w/medium thick leather nose band, bought it from casadosa.com I bought the head stall from Jeffers.com

My 5yr old is starting to neck rein but sometime he doesnt listen and I have to get hard handed, which I hate, and pull him the way I want. I know this has to do w/training.

I dont know much about non-bit head gear, is there something I can use that is bitless and would be a little more effective??

I have seen the paso bits and boy do they look different to me... Clueless when it comes to the bits...

[ErinC]

I use none unless I have to, and if I do I use a nice mylar. ( spelling)
and when I say have to, it is mostly while I am "working" a horse, NONE of mine need a bit

[Jasfino]

I bought a polytrainer from casadosa and that is what I ride mine in. Bits are very confusing to me also. I have heard not to use a snaffle as this messes the headset up on a Paso and then I have heard others say to start them in snaffles. I guess I will continue to ride mine in the bosal as long as I am trail riding.

[Pasogirlz]

I have only been using the bosal as well...until now. Tequila just went back into training to be bitted. I can't wait to see him all collected and going well!

[PASOFAN]

Gotta ck out that Mylar thing... And never heard of the polytrainer, gonna ck that out too.

I bought a bit that is d-ring but only a rubber bit.. Anyone know what I mean? I will try to post a pic of it... Is that ok to try?

[Jasfino]

I have heard others say they have had used the rubber bits as the first bit just to get them used to carrying something. I had thought about those myself. Let me know how it works for you.

[Pasomom]

Well, I prefer no bit, but my girl is pretty strong and pushes alot when I ride with other horses, so I use a bit on her. If I use a Paso bit, that hypes her up pretty good, and she is in high gear, so when I pleasure ride, I use a simple chain bit on her.....she is much more relaxed with that. I have ridden her with no bit before, but only when we ride by ourselves. If you are into showing, though, your horse must be bitted once he is a certain age.....in order to compete. Thus, Tequila is back in training to be bitted and collected.

[sporthorse]

:D on my horse during competition but can ride him halterless and bridleless atliberty I try to get all the horses that way.I also ride some with an s-hack or rope halter bridles when it is convenient.

[Alexandria12]

I use a bit with the two younger one (the show horses). I often ride my other mare without a bit with just a halter and rein or a Jaquima(headstall w/ pisador). I have had the most sucess with my colt with the myler bits (casa dosa has alot of them-read what each one is good for before buying). But my fino filly works good off of both, myler or columbian. Most places can tell you which ones are harsh and which ones arent. I like to use the myler comfort bit (very mild) with the roller on my older mare. And I also use a Jaquima with bosal and noseband with the young ones. One thing a trainer told me once, you can use a harsh bit and apply a tiny amount of pressure and it is better than using a mild bit with extreme pressure just to get the horse to do what it needs to do (e.i. stopping, backing, etc) the idea is not to have to use excess force to the mouth.
I have found some nice Jaquimas on the net and at shows that work wonders, even if you dont use a bit.

[PASOFAN]

Good info alexandria12. My trainer says the same about presure. I hope to have my guy be so light that I barely have to ask, but still a long way away..

I prefer to use leg, but I am short and have a harder time than most..

I havnt tried the rubber bit yet, maybe in a few weeks I will try it out...

[Fuego]

I mostly use a Myler low port comfort snaffle ( not actually a snaffle).
I tried a regular snaffle, wasn't acceptable to the horse.

I prefer riding bitless, but my Paso actually prefers a bit over a smooth noseband. So, I give him what he works best in.

[pasoglide]

I use the poly trainer on my eight year old and my two 15 year olds.

[hast]

I mainly use a Myler Kimberwick Ported Barrel. I like the fact it's a Kimberwick, I can choose how much curb pressure I want. More when I know I have to keep him back in a group of horses :roll: and less when he has no one to compete with.


HTTY

[Edurne]

I rode Primero in a Colombian spoon bit until last year. Primero kept shaking his head. So now I just use the bozal which has a hard nose band. He is very very light and responsive. Have ridden him with the hunters with no problem - there is quite a lot demanded from him in that situation. Have not ridden him in a group containing other pasos (a theme of great excitement for him). Don't show - am not sure why the bit promotes collection.

[GeorgeGuns]

am not sure why the bit promotes collection.

In dressage there is a term, the "bit barrier" which is more of a concept than a bit. Because this style of riding (or any english style) starts right off with a bit usually, and often with side reins, one of the ideas a horse must learn is to not go past the "bit barrier", in other words, be light and responsive.
The concept however is very applicable to all disciplines, esp pasos who are primarily trained to a modicum of lightness before ever seeing a bit. When they are light in the jaquima, with only the chin rein, and it only takes a wiggle of the finger to get a response, this horse will be respecting the bit barrier. When this horse does have a bit put in its mouth, assuming its a bit chosen with the horse's particular needs/conformation in mind, the horse will hopefully transfer the respect. Of course we also assume that the rider/trainer has sensative hands. When a horse like this seems to automatically collect just for having the bit there, it can be good or bad. If a horse is too light before meeitng the bit, it may actually be afraid on a sense to go forward and/or extend. I learned this the hard way on my first Paso - went years before putting a bit on her, and when I did I could not get her out of fino - this was a trail horse with corto and largo well in place! I was barely using the bit, a very mild one, so it sure wasn't my hands getting in her way. My fault was most likely not letting her carry the bit long enough before trying to employ it - this is a horse that probably should have carried it for a good 6 months til it became "furniture", before even attaching reins. Food for thought, huh?

Okay, so that's the bit barrier, and not why a bit promotes collection, but HOW it can if done this way. Another philosophy of older dressage (more classical) is that the bit should be quite secondary, that collection should be taught in concert with the horse's ability and mentality, and in some places its taught before getting on. In this way, the bit has very little to do with colection except maybe as a reminder for some horses or a tool for refinement for others. True collection should come from the body, not the mouth for the horse, and for the human it should come from the body and not the hands. IMO a good trainer uses both these philosphies with respect.

[Edurne]

Thanks Coreen for a great explanation. Now I am wondering if the hard metal leather covered nose band is too strong. Primero does not like and does not respond to a chain over his nose, but I have not seemed to have had any problem with this nose band. He doesn't have any rub spots on his nose.

[CarolU]

I pulled this off the Tack & Training Forum from answering a similar question - I have elaborated on it to answer some of the questions and comments in the above posts...

One of the more interesting experiements I have done is trying the same well-trained horse in different gear. Then you REALLY see what affect a piece of mouth/head gear has on a horse - and you need to realize that what one horse works fine in, another will consider a nightmare, and yet another will ignore.

When I ride Zar in a Parelli halter/hackamore on a loose rein, I get a strung out gait and often a trot. I have a low head carriage - but a very comfortable (in her mind) horse. I can get mild collection with rein contact and good control. I use this for training Parelli only.

I put on a comfort snaffle and ride on a loose rein, it is pretty much the same as the rope halter, except I find she will get heavy on the bit with contact and I don't have as much control as with the rope halter. But, I can legally show in Trail with this setup. She is much happier with the comfort snaffle then with a bit. In Trail Class this is important, since in hard competition if they open their mouths, chomp the bit, or wring their tails, you get docked (and I DO NOT BELIEVE in 'fixing' the tail so it can't talk). The comfort snaffle has a barrel over the snaffle joint, so it reduces the pressure on the roof of the mouth. The problem with a regular jointed snaffle, is that pressure on the roof, so the horse moves their head out and down to relieve the pressure...you get that QH or Hunter head set - way too heavy on the front end.

The Casa Dosa trainer I love for all training, and adjust it where it will contact the chin with rein contact. I can train for a nice headset and self carriage with this, and achieve it on a loose/near contact rein.

I put on a Myler low port bit, and I get carriage and collection with no contact, excellent control...but I start to loose her comfortable mind (she gets upset) with rein contact for sidepassing, backing, front and rear end giving. If our pleasure classes were judged the way the rule book states, then I would not need this much collection from her. But, since they are, I use this for Pleasure and Versatility which requires collection.

The other day I put a medium port Myler on her (the one I use on Diablo) because I couldn't find her low port bit. With NO CONTACT she was in a supper tuck, snappy gait, extremely light response, like a push-button horse...but, a very UNHAPPY horse. She kept her head tucked in and up...this tells me the top of the port hits her bars or roof, so she carries her head so-so to relieve that pressure.

Those are the results of my experiement....know that I love this horse and will never put the medium port, nor any spoon in her mouth again. Yes, I could have a much showeier horse, and yes I have light enough hands and ride with legs/weight to not abuse it, but I believe VERY FIRMLY that Pleasure should be a Pleasure for both horse and rider. If the horse's head isn't up, ears up, eyes alert and happy...then they aren't enjoying themselves.

I do think to train and show you need a collection of gear and try different things to see what works best for what you want to achieve with your horse. There is a science to appling pressure to the nose, chin, roof of the mouth, bars, poll, etc...to achieve different things. You should always mentally work through the mechanics of tack and how it affects your horse BEFORE you put it on them.

[PattiB]

I start my horses with a rope halter, then a bosal. Add a full check Dr Bristol snaffle, then on to what ever type bit they need later. Usually ride all ages in bosal and bit at home. Of course older (non-schooling) horses at shows have to use only bit with the Performance and Fino.

[halfmoonfino]

I don't use bits unless I need to either. On Pitty, I use a leather bosal. When I got him I used a curb on him for "brakes", and then got turned on to the advantages of a hackamore. Things progressed much faster after I made the switch. He had been tucking his head/evading, and all that stopped. I also learned that he has a low palate (roof of the mouth) which makes curb bits and jointed snaffles in particular difficult to carry (although he wore a low port curb). He also has really fleshy lips that pinch super easily. I made the switch to the hackamorea and noticed a 100% improvement all-around. Later I trained him to go in a snaffle bit, but I can only use a french link snaffle on him because of his mouth. So basically the snaffel bridle sits in my bedroom. Later on, after I got him paying attention better, I went to a bosal with no curb pressure. Now he works well in that.

There is, however, no doubt about the effectiveness (particularly in Dressage) of using a snaffle bit. If you have a mildly resistant horse that needs extra firm cues, then using a snaffle gently might be better than using a bosal roughly. I think anyone would agree on that. Besides, there's a lot of fine tuning available with a bit. But, I think the horse should be completely finished in a bosal before you introduce a snaffle. And even then, he must remain supple and responsive, or else the bit is worthless. Horses can chompand run through bits, so right from the start they need to learn to respect the bit and not fight it. That way you never enter a pulling contest.

Pitty is so hyper-sensitive that I find no need for a bit. I barely touch the reins as it is. While he will carry a snaffle, he doe better without. And really, there's no need for one. He is completely driven by my seat/pelvis. I don't use any leg past the thigh and hardly any hand (unless I make a mistake with body and don't correct fast enough, and Pitty is about to "high-ho silver away!" with me...happens to the best of us right ;-) )

Anyway, I am so rambling! Basically I am not a big fan of curb bits generally speaking. I don't think people who use them are "wrong" (heck , I used the mfor years!), I just don't prefer them on my horse or others that I ride. I think bit training is beneficial if done correctly, and makes a big difference with some horses.

IF you are looking for a bit to start a horse in, a mullen mouth snaffle, a mylar, or a french-link, are all excellent bits.Some people swear by loose rings, but please check your horse's lips! Pitty's are so thick that they got pinched in the rings and he evaded the bit because of it. Obviously we got a new bit. Moral of story: loose rings are not for thick lipped horsies. I personally like D-rings and Full-cheeks (or eggbutts, lol.) particularly the D's and FC's are great because it encourages giving to opposite pressure. When you pull the left rein, the right cheekpiece is pressed against the horse's face, thereby encouraging bend. Voila! I personally find that helpful, especially with young/green/unfinished horses.

It isn't "PAso Fino", but an English hackamore has a little more control than a plain bosal. It's nosepiece is harness leather (sixeable) padded with sheepskin. The shanks are aluminum (making for a light bridle), and you just attach a western curb to the chin area. It hasa slight purchase, so there is a little poll pressure (encouraging headset, giving more control), and there's curb pressure (without the bit in the mouth to have the crunch effect). Here's a photo:

http://www.saddleuptack.com/webcat/images/item404_1.jpg

And here's a photo of Pitty wearing his

http://www.thestratosphere.net/Graphics/Pitty39431s.jpg note: please ignore swollen tummy...i'd just had some surgery...that photo was like 16 lbs. ago...lol :roll:

Anyway, hope it helps!

*edited because i posted the same photo twice by accident!

[Monty]

Ok -that is like the hackamore I used on Venus and had great control -
Unfortunaltely, Monty had 2 owners that used a luna bit - the gal ,I was told by his trainer, kept going to a stronger bit when he wouldn't respond instead of learning to lighten up her hands - the last DUDE had NO business having a horse and he used that same bit -
Changed him to a short shank broken snaffle and he is one happy camper and reacts with light pressure -

[horsenaround52]

I use a lightweight aluminum grazier low port curb bit on my paso gelding. I have tried all the snaffles and he chews them a lot. besides, he neckreins very nicely and does quick turns and loves to gallop. I sometimes do use a braided noseband hackamore on him and he goes just as well with that. I also find that with the curb bit, i can get better collection and he gaits better.