3 part question "Why do horses- - - - -

[Red Ryder]

Charge through the stall doors"???

Would like opinions on.

1. What causes horses to charge through stall doors to the point of being dangerous if one is not prepared???

2. Has the human done something to cause this???

3. What can be done to correct the problem???

[Minouri]

Red,

I had a trainer who addressed this with me. It's the same philosophy as charging through gates and other places they aren't comfortable with.

He told me to work on 2 things. 1) making the horse pay attention to ME more than whatever he is afraid of....looking to ME for the answer to whatever is bothering him...along the lines of being the alpha by addressing what your horse is paying attention to. Does your horse also walk into the back of you when you stop when leading him? My trainer would suggest that the two problems are related.

If your horse gets bitten in the rump he should know that running through you is NOT an option....jumping to the side, squeeling....all acceptable. But if you've done this right.....or so my trainer always said,...the horse will not stampede over you.

I've seen Scooter exhibit some great restraint after working with the man so I tend to believe him.

2) Looking at every interaction with a horse as a training session in some way. If you let them charge, then it's ok to charge.

My old trainer was pretty strict about how the horse should stand when he was returning it to its stall. I wish I could remember all of it.

I'll be curious to see if other people see the problem the same way.

[Soltera]

Definately one of my pet peeves. Very dangerous for lesson horses handled by students. My theory: it's fear of entrapment. The nasty habit starts by being led thru the door carelessly, causing injury or a scare. It can also get started about a thousand other ways when the horse gets spooked while going thru a gate or any narrow place, even on the trail. Know that this habit tends to stay with horses and can resurface years later under stress for no apparent reason, which is a good reason to always use the below routine when leading a strange horse through any gate. Can you tell I've been injured by this habit? :frown: My own fault. Can you tell I've had students injured by this habit? :mad2: Man, oh, man. Do what you want to me; but harm my students in any way.....

Start by establishing a set routine, almost a dance or even a kata, to protect you both until he gets retrained. On the far side of the squeeze, set him up looking at you, exactly as Minouri recommends. Solving it is a matter of paying attention to you, I totally agree, but would like to add that you are almost "freezing him in place" with your eyes (actually, you're just making sure he is not coiling for the leap!). Then teach him to stand still while you sidestep, carefully back thru the gate and sidestep out of the way again so you're in no way blocking the passage, all the while looking directly into his eyes, and he into yours, almost in a trance. Maybe talk to him, "Whoa, now, easy.." Whatever works.

Then let him slowly and carefully approach the gap, using your leadrope if possible, just body language if not, and then stand back to let him leap thru the door in a very carefully controlled way, ensuring his body is perfectly aligned so as to not clip a shoulder or hip, giving him plenty of room and leadline to land and stop on the other side. Then establish eye contact again, perfectly still, then go on about your business. And yes, Minouri, I would also have the horse stand in a particular spot after reversing the process to get him back thru the gate or back into the stall. Stand, establish eye contact, relax - pet - reward.

That just keeps you safe until he stops having to and wanting to leap, though. Put a big sign on the door if the unaware have any reason to lead him thru, to warn them to let you do the leading.

To retrain, take it slow. One step towards the gap, relax - pet - reward, nose thru the gate, stop and feed and rub, relax - pet - reward, whatever he likes as an individual, all the while being careful not to body block the passage, just in case. Eyes thru gate, one foot, two feet, neck, barrel.... You get the rest. Lots of relax - pet - reward. Just don't ever get in the way, and watch for him to coil and leap.

Whew. Just thinking about gate rushers get me going. Thanks! Needed the adrenline rush this morning! :v:

[CarolU]

Horses charge through gates because they're claustrophobic. I do basically what Ruth and Soltera describe (except I don't do any leaping through). Take the time to teach them there is nothing to be afraid of when they squeeze through a gate. And I make mine back into their stalls on occasion. I ALWAYS stop and correct it when it happens. Take it one step at a time, again and again, until they'll walk through calmly.

[JennLM]

I've taught ours a "Go through" command. If I want them to go through ahead of me I will tell them that. If not they have to wait for human to go through first. It gets them to pay attention and see what I want. Our guys are really good _now_. It also helps when trailer loading into one with dividers. Anywhere they need to go through ahead.

If ours ever pushed, they had to back (or walk through and go around like between the mounting block and round pen) and try again.

[Soltera]

I only do the "controlled leaping through" when I must. I'd really rather just start training them right off. Thing is, so many off-track TBs and other cast-off donations at (the not-so-good) riding schools have that habit that I've learned how to "just deal with it", and try to go back and train them on my own time.

Few supervisors want to give you the time to horse train for the details when there's 40 horses to groom, tack and lead out to the lesson ring. We grooms are the "professionals" and can therefore "take it", and there's just "not enough time to fool with all of them".....:v: Know what I mean?

Sooooo nice not to be doing that kind of work anymore! And sooooo nice when you work at a really good school with great horses!

[JimHannah]

Hi Guys,
I agree with the claustrophobia. A lot of horses balk at going through gates early in their training. A lot of trainers over pressure a horse to get through the gate, making things even worse for even longer. I do expect my horses to follow a respectful -and safe- distance behind me through the gate, and then get their big ol' butts out of the way so I can close the gate. You may want to see if there is any apprehension about approaching the gate - in the horse, not you - before you move on to a fix. That could help you back up and start in the right place. By working on whatever fear he has over the gate.
If you have a horse with no fear or nervousness about the gate, then you are likely dealing with a bad habit. Generally, fixes take at least as many times of doing it right plus one, than it did doing it wrong. Carol's for sure on the right track with getting your horse to back up. A good back up will help you out all over the place. And in this case could really be the difference between you getting run over or not while working your pony through his gate problem.

Jim

[motorgypsy]

Hollis that is a really great question. I'm so glad you brought it up.

Our Brandy would flatten you when we first got her. She's as hyper as can be naturally and if you saw us when we first got her you would have laughed if your eye didn't pop out of your head.

Picture this - mare in stall - door closed. Owner sneaks into stall through tiny opening while other owner makes sure mare is standing back from the door. Owner puts two stallion chains on mare and snakes the the leads out of the stall door which is still closed. Other owner has a wooden cane - (we tried shins and nose). Now other owner slithers out of stall and the two position themselves on opposite sides of the stall door with the two leads to the stallion chains held on opposite sides of the door and they hold the cane up in front of the horse. The stall door is slowly opened while they attempt to keep the horse's attention on them. She tries to charge and she gets popped on the nose and the shins and they hold back on the stallion chains. Ever so slowly first owner goes first, then mare, then second owner who is holding her back and they walk her like on crossties out to the pasture.

This went on for a couple of months until we found clicker training.

Clicker training - a life saver in this case. We taught her the basics and since our horses are pigs she caught on very quickly. We also taught her the STAND and the WHOA commands. Little by little we would open the door, give her the command, click and reward. We still had the stallion chains on her. We weren't total fools! We would make her stand for 30 second in front of the open stall door before she was allowed to leave and she must leave at a walk. It took a lot of energy but in two weeks time she would stand for the 30 seconds and walk from her stall. And she still will. But we do have to remind her before we open the door because she does want out.

Why are they like this? I think some just want out to go to the pasture where their friends are, there's grass and they can run around. Chinook really is claustrophobic but she has never charged a stall door. When she wants out of a stall she just starts bouncing up and down like a Tigger horse and beating on the stall door with her feet and makes a huge noise. Some I think are just naturally high energy. They do everything fast. Brandy is this type of horse. A really great well behaved riding horse but really hyper and hot.

Why do they do this? Because no one intervened during their training to stop it and if you don't stop it, it is truly dangerous. They could really kill you. Brandy was very very dangerous on the ground. Great in the saddle. but not on the ground. But then she's only had 30 days of pro training when we got her. We didn't know what that meant. She didn't buck. She stood still for mounting. She turned left and right when you asked her to. Her whoa was pretty bad but if pointed her at a fence she'd stop. She didn't really bolt with you or take off in a panic gallop. We thought that was pretty good. We really were ignorant but she's truly a keeper and we're so glad we got her.