Help Please

[paragon]

Anyone know about LAZCAR INTERNATIONAL HORSE TRANSPORT? I know someone that I think is being scammed. She has a grade pony that they are sending 4500.00 in the mail. Saying that they want it for their 2yr old in Panama. They told her to draw blood and to send it to them and the pony could be quarantined at their place. Has anyone ever heard of drawing your own blood for quarantine:( The man that they are speaking with says that he deals with LAZCAR for his transportation and that they can send the blood to them also. The man was suppose to send a wire transfer throught the internet but couldn't do it because it would only take so much money. So he told them that he would mail a check to their address. He supposedly has an account with Bank of America in Az. I just keep thinking this is a SCAM. Am I crazy not thinking that this is on the up and up. ANYONE

[PasoVicki]

I goggled Lazcar horse transport, and they do have a web site:

http://www.lazcar.com/

That doesn't prove the "buyer" isn't a scammer, though.

[Buffy111_99]

I know Lazcar. We are horse transporters and have hauled quite a few horses for them. They are very legit and a great company but I would have your friend call them and verify the buyer. We were always paid for hauling directly by them so I would think the customer would pay for the horse through them as well. I also know the quarantee farm that they use and they are awesome as well.
Hope that helps.

[paragon]

I know I goggled them to. Thank you for your reply PasoVicki. But I have never heard of owner drawing there own blood for pre quarantine. I thought a vet had to do it. And the horses had to be in Miami for a certain amount of time under supervision. They lady selling the pony will not believe that it is a scam. I sure hope not. But I just can't see some one paying 4500.00 for a non-registered pony and sending it out of the country. There are to many ponys all over isn't there for less money?

[paragon]

Buff111 99 Thank you could you explain the procedure prior to being exported and how long. And the name of the quarantine farm

[Buffy111_99]

Buff111 99 Thank you could you explain the procedure prior to being exported and how long. And the name of the quarantine farm


I don't really know the "procedure". We have only hauled for Lazcar. We have picked up horses from the airport and taken them to the owner and we have picked up horses from the seller and taken them to the quarantine farm but it was all arranged and paid for through Lazcar. We had nothing to do with the process prior to or after that. You should really call Lazcar and talk to them. They are a legit company. Try calling Diana at (305)223-2162 at Lazcar. We have transported very high priced horses for Lazcar. I am talking about horses worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. I can't vouch for some buyer in another country but you could certainly verify things through Lazcar. Perhaps there is a language barrier with the buyer???? and that is why there is some confusion. I would have to search our records and find the lady's full name, phone # etc. at the quarantine farm. I know her name is Jane and I can give you directions but that is all off the top of my head. Again, Lazcar can tell you all about the quarantine etc.

[Linda Y]

Sounds like a scam to me too. I agree...even though it is not your pony and will be your dime, call Lazcar and verify the haul with them. If it does turn out to be a scam, your friend will be thankful you cared to help.
Since they are sending so much money for the pony, are they asking for some of it back? Like 'cash this check from my customer in AZ and send me the balance after you take out the price of the pony'? If so, it is most likely a bogus check and deal.

[StephB]

The man was suppose to send a wire transfer throught the internet but couldn't do it because it would only take so much money. So he told them that he would mail a check to their address.

This right here raised all kinds of red flags for me.

[CarolU]

I agree with both Stephanie and LindaY. I would NEVER wire money to anyone I met through the Internet. Call the company and verify the transportation. If they are active on the Internet they should be able to pay with PayPal or cashiers check.

Never never never never wire money.

[Heidi]

Pony goes NOWHERE until seller has CASH IN HAND! As for the blood draw, have the purchaser make their own arrangements for that with a local vet or they can have it done at the quarantine farm.
$4500 for a grade pony is reasonable if the pony is exceptional. I've heard of plenty of grade horses worth untold amounts of money because of their abilities in the show jumping rings.

[Buffy111_99]

Maybe I can't read but I can't find where you have explained this situation fully. How much was your friend asking for the pony to begin with? Did this buyer offer more than the selling price or what? It is not unusual for someone to pay that much for a pony. As far as the bloodwork issue .... it may be a matter of the buyer not understanding the process. It would all be taken care of if you just call Lazcar.

[paragon]

Thank you everyone. Buffy the pony was advertised I think on dream horse or horstopia for 5000.00. First a lady from NC called and kept asking about money and was in a hurry. Then all of a sudden she not longer called. Instead this man from Panama called the very next day. And was in a hurry then said just draw the blood and it can be considered a quarantine at her house until the money clears I quess. But my bank said that it can take up to 2 wks to possibly find out. And alot of the times the bank does not see it until later. This lady is really neive. I thought most people would want a video or something. I am calling Dr Herold with the USDA in a little bit. I will let you know what happens. I guess I just don't get paying for a pony w/o papers and no video. Or even seeing it. Thats just me. Thank you I will also call Lazcar Also they keep telling her that it is for a 2yr old child. No way. This pony bucked her daughter off. And the ad is not completely true.

[Hacienda Radiante]

Paragon, I use both of those ad sites and although I like both, DreamHorse has a SIGNIFICANT problem with scammers. I posted 6 horses up there a few weeks ago and within a day had 3 'responses' with almost identical language, offering to buy the horse immediately and asking what my bottom dollar was. To the best of my knowledge there is no limit to the amount that you can wire transfer and I can personally tell you that BoA will let you transfer more than $5K. I've done it. So tell your friend there is something a little stinky about this one and that she needs to have either cash or a transfer where her bank can verify the deposit, before the pony moves a step off her property. The requests for blood drawing, quarantining etc. could be just a way of distracting her from the real issue.

[paragon]

Well everyone thank you I appreciate the help. They got the check and cashed the it and are taking the pony down to miami. I spoke to diane and she said that she thought that selena was working on something. The pony is leaving Sunday. I hope it work out. They even sent more than they was suppose to.(imagine that)Thanks again. I will let you now if it was really a scam. I wouldn't be so lucky

[SandyMM]

They got the check and cashed the it and are taking the pony down to miami.
They may cash a check if they have enough money in their account to cover it, but that doesn't mean it's good. If it bounces later, they are liable...

[Linda Y]

Well, it sounds like they can kiss that pony goodbye. Tell them not to cash any checks off that check for probably 14 days or they will have to repay it.
Sorry your friends didn't listen. Naive doesn't cut it for an excuse if you had people warning you to beware.
I hope for the pony's sake it is real.

[paragon]

Yep I know why the bank cashed it. Because she had just got a loan for a trailer and had not bought it yet. I am sure the bank saw that she has the money in the bank to cover it. And yes it may be legit with the transport with Lazcar and the person from Panama but that doesn't mean it is legit up here on this end. Me personaly I would think that the check was not good. Well she has already started spending. I just don't get it.

[Linda Y]

You can probably write them up their stupid sign now, and give it to them with a big 'I told you so.' when they have to use the loan to repay the bank instead of getting a trailer.
Sigh...

[paragon]

Your right LindaY I will let everyone know what happens if anything. Sigh...

[motorgypsy]

Hard to believe she hasn't heard about how many people have been scammed this way. The owner of our boarding barn thought she was selling an old TW to someone in England. I warned her not to transport the horse until the check had been declared legit by the bank. It did turn out to be bogus.

The real clue is them sending more than they were supposed to. I bet she's already sent the transporter or someone else some of the money from the check she cashed. I don't know why people don't understand that a bank will cash a check and then yank the money right out of their account if it's not good. We had that happen just because an insurance check was supposed to be endorsed by both of us and only one endorsed it. They cashed the check then pulled money right back out of our account and bounced three checks because it was a fairly sizable insurance check. We were lucky that the bank waived the overdraft fees as the check went right back through after we put the second endorsement on it. But it was still a major hassle. And you know the bank didn't tell her that if the check wasn't good they'd take the money right back out of her account. Pitiful.

[paragon]

She actually has a 22yr old friend that said she would take the pony down south for so much money. The buyer said that it was such a short time to get the pony transported to fly out on Tuesday so her friend that has been doing all of the talking for her said that she would transport the pony Sunday. If this isn't a scam I will have to ear dirt. yuk

[motorgypsy]

You won't know if it's legit until the check clears the other bank. If it was a personal check it shouldn't take that long. I think the cashier's check my friend got took over a week before it was declared bogus.

You don't have to eat anything let alone dirt for warning her to beware of scams. If you'll remember, one of our forum member's brother's got scammed, was warned,wouldn't listen and lost a ton of money.

She just should have waited for the check to clear before spending the money or moving the pony. That's not unreasonable to tell her.

And the sad thing is - if this happens to turn out legitimate, she'll be ripe for one of the Nigerian cashier's check scams and really won't listen to your warnings.

[StephB]

Oh dear, this is a well known scam. :(
I hope it turns out ok.

In some cases, fraudsters approach merchants and ask for large orders: $50,000 to $200,000, and agree to pay via wire transfer in advance. After brief negotiation, the buyers gives an excuse about the impossibility of sending a bank wire transfer. The buyer then offers to send a check, stating that the merchant can wait for the check to clear before shipping any goods. The check received, however, is a counterfeit of a check from a medium to large U.S. company. If asked, the buyer will claim that the check is money owed from the large company. The merchant deposits the check and it clears, so the goods are sent. Only later, when the larger company notices the check, will the merchant's account be debited.

and

Distant person offers a genuine-looking (but fake) cashier's check

* you receive an email offering to buy your item, or rent your apartment, sight unseen.
* cashier's check is offered for your sale item, as a deposit for an apartment, or for just about anything else of value.
* value of cashier's check often far exceeds your item - scammer offers to "trust" you, and asks you to wire the balance via money transfer service
* banks will often cash these fake checks AND THEN HOLD YOU RESPONSIBLE WHEN THE CHECK FAILS TO CLEAR, including criminal prosecution in some cases!
* scam often involves a 3rd party (shipping agent, business associate owing buyer money, etc)

[paragon]

Update. Now the buyer supposedly called and said not to bring the pony today but to keep it up here. They told her that this would count as being quarantined. They have not asked for money back yet. Are they stalling for some reason. I can't believe some people. sigh..... I asked her again why not let the buyer arrange another way of transporting the horse since her friends trailer is being fixed. She said that she could use the loaner trailer that shadow gave her until her trailer is done. CLUELESSSSSS. Is it possible that she would be prosecuted when she had no idea?

[Buffy111_99]

Update. Now the buyer supposedly called and said not to bring the pony today but to keep it up here. They told her that this would count as being quarantined. They have not asked for money back yet. Are they stalling for some reason. I can't believe some people. sigh..... I asked her again why not let the buyer arrange another way of transporting the horse since her friends trailer is being fixed. She said that she could use the loaner trailer that shadow gave her until her trailer is done. CLUELESSSSSS. Is it possible that she would be prosecuted when she had no idea?

Now, don't get me wrong ..... I am NOT saying that this in not a scam but I don't know why you are so positive that it is! The buyer did not pay an amount above the asking price - correct? They didn't say "their shipper would be there to pick up the horse and some money" - correct? You did talk to Lazcar and they have verified the deal was legit - correct? So, what makes this a scam???? What am I missing?

[paragon]

I thought that I mentioned that the buyer sent more money than suppose to. I think I did on the 21st. Also Diana said that maybe selena was working on something. Also you can not quarantine a horse at their home until the day of the flight. And a aphis/vet has to draw the blood and verify everything prior to leaving unless it has change. Yes I could be very wrong but I was told if it sounds to good to be true than it probably is. I have a feeling(could be wrong though) that they will call and say that an associate or someone will pick up the pony would you mind sending the transporting fee and the excess amount that I sent to you. I hope for the little girls sake that this is not a scam. She is only 8

[Buffy111_99]

I thought that I mentioned that the buyer sent more money than suppose to. I think I did on the 21st. Also Diana said that maybe selena was working on something. Also you can not quarantine a horse at their home until the day of the flight. And a aphis/vet has to draw the blood and verify everything prior to leaving unless it has change. Yes I could be very wrong but I was told if it sounds to good to be true than it probably is. I have a feeling(could be wrong though) that they will call and say that an associate or someone will pick up the pony would you mind sending the transporting fee and the excess amount that I sent to you. I hope for the little girls sake that this is not a scam. She is only 8

All you really said was the pony was listed for sale on the internet for $5000. and this guy from Panama paid $4500. I don't see the problem with that. He paid less than they were asking for. Did you talk to Selena to see if it was a legit haul? I would not worry too much about the guy from Panama telling her to pull the blood and the quarantine thing. Panama may have totally different regulations etc than the US and perhaps he just doesn't know any better on those issues. I still think Lazcar is the answer to you worrying about this being a scam. If you have not talked to Selena, then do so. If you have and she knows nothing about this guy then you should tell your friend about the conversation. I worked in prisons for 30 years and have dealt with a "few" scammers in my day but I just feel you are worrying yourself without proof right now. I don't trust a lot of people from my working experience but I do like to know that I am worrying about a real threat.

[Linda Y]

Well everyone thank you I appreciate the help. They got the check and cashed the it and are taking the pony down to miami. I spoke to diane and she said that she thought that selena was working on something. The pony is leaving Sunday. I hope it work out. They even sent more than they was suppose to.(imagine that)Thanks again. I will let you now if it was really a scam. I wouldn't be so lucky

She did say they sent more.
I think you are exactly right...they will call and say they changed shipping companies, send a rep who wants to get the extra money for the shipping.
This is an interesting playout.

[Hacienda Del Sol]

It's obviously a scam, and I surprised that it's not plain to everyone. This is a typical cashier's check scam but with many red flags:

The buyer said he couldn't wire more than $5000. BS. Wire transfers are done all over the world for far higher fund amounts than that. There is no limit to an electronic transfer via SWIFT.

I'll bet it was a cashiers check they received. Scammers know that by law, and standard banking practices, they must treat a cashiers check as cash, that is why the funds clear immediately. For the bank, these funds are certified in that they are drawn off another bank. It is a loophole the scammers use, they know exactly how long it will take for the check to work it's way through the system.

The fact that they didn't see a video of the horse prior to agreeing to purchase. Big red flag here, but it does happen.

Your friends are in for trouble here. No doubt they already spent some of the money. If they were dumb enough to accept the check, they were dumb enough to start spending.

[motorgypsy]

When I was about 8 years old we went to a restaurant to eat while on vacation. After we finished the owner had this game where you chose a number and if you picked correctly you got a prize. The first cost was $1. My dad did it and won a box of candy. The next cost was $5. He lost. The next number cost $10. My dad said no. I begged him to try it. He said he would if I paid for it. I agreed. I chose the number and lost $10. I've never done any gambling for anything more than pennies since then. It was a very valuable lesson because back then $10 was fortune for an 8 year old.

If this is a scam and the mother is up front with the daughter about it I bet the daughter will never fall prey to something like that in her life. We learn by making mistakes or seeing other people make mistakes. It's easier if we learn from other people's mistakes.

[Buffy111_99]

It's obviously a scam, and I surprised that it's not plain to everyone.

I have never said it was not a scam ......... only that I would check it out thoroughly with Lazcar before I panicked as I KNOW Lazcar are a legit and very good company that arranges transport in and out of the US every day - all day long. They would not be involved (knowingly) with a scam of any kind. My very first post suggested calling them and finding out about this buyer. That has not been done and this thread is now 3 pages long. Lazcar was called once but nothing was verified as the wrong employee was spoken to. All I was trying to say is: Find out the details before panicking!

[paragon]

Buffy your absolutely right. but at this point I have to just step aside and let the cards fall where they may. I guess if she wants to let another person take care of it all then so be it. I am just waiting at this point. I am not worried anymore. I can't protect and serve everyone even though I wish I could. We shall see. And yes hacienda they did recieve a cashiers check. They supposedly have an account with Bank of America in Az.

[Hacienda Del Sol]

I have never said it was not a scam ......... only that I would check it out thoroughly with Lazcar before I panicked as I KNOW Lazcar are a legit and very good company that arranges transport in and out of the US every day - all day long. They would not be involved (knowingly) with a scam of any kind. My very first post suggested calling them and finding out about this buyer. That has not been done and this thread is now 3 pages long. Lazcar was called once but nothing was verified as the wrong employee was spoken to. All I was trying to say is: Find out the details before panicking!

Buffy,

I suppose enough of us have been around here long enough to see every scam there has been regarding horses. I've sold horses to Europe and outside the US, I guess what's seems absolutely plain to some is not so much to others. Like I said before, and I was sort of responding to your "why are you positive it's a scam line" were all the reasons I laid out. Cashiers check, not seeing the animal, sending out of country, inability to wire transfer, etc. It made no sense, and, to paraphrase a popular tv judge, if it don't make sense, then it probably isn't true.

Paragon,

I'm sure the idea of posting this subject in the first place was to save your friends unnecessary anguish. The biggest problem with that check is that most people don't have the ability to not spend the money from the fake check. The check will clear immediately and their account will be credited. Some people may actually wait 2 or 3 days before dipping in, but unfortunately, many will just splurge---jetski shop, here I come!

[StephB]

jetski shop, here I come!

Oh, if only I had known you wanted one! ;)

I just sold mine. For cash.

[CarolU]

I've been asked to put together an article for PFHW on Internet scams with horses. This thread has been very helpful. Most of the ones I've seen before were with people selling horses and those scams This scam is very much like the scams involving horse trailers, jet skis, boats, etc.

Sounds like I better get with it!

Thanks all.