Help on retraining a runaway horse

[motorgypsy]

I'm starting this thread here since several people have said they have dialup and loading the other topics takes so long they just don't usually go to them. I'll move it to training later.

I'm asking for any of your experiences with successful retraining of a horse that ran away with you when you got it. And if you felt that this runaway was now as safe as any horse can be after the retraining or if you still felt that it might run away under certain circumstances.

A friend's son had a wonderful horse but unfortunately this horse would run away with him and did so in the neighborhood along the road.

I also was run away with as a teen while riding double along the side of a main rural highway.

My friend's son can ride anything and ultimately got the horse slowed and back to where he belonged but the horse jumped a huge cabbage palm tree and went through woods and all sorts of very bad terrain before he was able to finally get him under control.

In my case my friend who was on the back of the horse flew off when the horse turned into the farm lane and I ended up hanging under her neck. Luckily no serious injuries.

Here's what we did with our two who would runaway with you and yes I would now trust either to behave as well as the rest of our guys and to have a "stop" when we need it regardless of how fearful the situation is.

Our first runaway was our second paso fino. We had no experience training the breed when we got her. She hated the bits we used. The first one she liked was the Kimberwick low port solid mouthpiece. But she had no whoa with it.

We asked some local western reining trainers(nationally known and respected by the way) and they said they would just run the horse at a fast speed straight into the barn or fence and give a one rein cue to teach a difficult horse to stop. We tried the barn first and then after she figured it out, we used fences. It did work. So she finally did understand what we wanted and would stop with one rein by turning 90 degrees.

This was fine except the trail nearby was so heavily wooded there was no way for us to turn her 90 degrees when trail riding. So she was now safe to ride anywhere where there was room for us to turn her but not in really tight situations.

So back to the drawing board. We then discovered clicker training and tried it. It was very quick and powerful. After she caught on we started using it while we rode. We would ask for different gaits, different speeds and the stop, then click and reward. This actually created a very different mindset with her. Before, she stopped grudgingly because she knew we wanted her to. But now she was quite happy to stop because she knew she'd get her reward for doing her tasks correctly.

No she didn't stop without a cue because she knew she wouldn't get her reward if she did something that wasn't asked for. If she stopped without the cue she was asked to move out, given a couple of more tasks, then stopped again. THEN the reward ( one or two carrot slices carried in a fanny pack).

So now she stops willingly and happily. We now wait until a resting point or the end of the ride for the reward and she's fine with that.

We did however change her bit to the short shank Myler with either a low port curb or the four piece with the rollers. She likes both. She just liked the bit even better than the Kimberwick and responded better to cues with that bit.

We got the other runaway mare a number of months after the first one. The barn and fence one rein stop training worked but even with clicker training we could not count on her to stop without a great deal of force on the bit. We discovered that she had been trained to be on the bit and was not comfortable without pressure. This is the mare we than switched to the Rutledge roper bit and who would just relax the minute it was in her mouth and I just gave it a couple of pinky twitches. From then on she rode from seat and body cues with no bit cues at all and would stop from a seat cue and is now also safe to stop when we ask.

So please add techniques that have worked for you since this is such a common and dangerous situation. I was run away with numerous times as a child, fell off and was terrified of it happening. My friends ride big off the track thoroughbreds and warmbloods and have been runaway with numerous times. I would think anything that was successful that doesn't injure the horse would be helpful.

[CarolU]

The one-rein stop is not something that is only used when needed, it is something that is trained to the horse at all speeds, starting with a walk. Once the horse knows it, it will stop without leaving a trail or going into the woods or into a fence or barn.

Although I am a big fan of the one-rein stop and train it on all horses I train, I will say that many professionally trained PFs have been trained to gait while their head is flexed fully to the side, so a one-rein stop is quite impossible without retraining.

The problem with horses who have been trained to be heavy on the bit is that they have learned to lean in to the pressure (rather then move away from it), and they are very hard to stop by pulling the reins.

And to make retraining more interesting, you will frequently find BOTH problems on the same horse, so not only do your brakes not work, your emergency brake has been dismantled also. :shocked:

First, until I fix both problems I would not ride this horse on a trail ride or out where a run-away could be disastrous. I remember as a kid, my sister's horse would run away, and my father rigged up "an emergency brake" that was a dog choke chain wrapped around the nose band and the ring attached to a rope to the saddle horn. It was only used if she ran away, and as I recall, she only ran away 1-2 times with the 'emergency brake' and she quit doing it. I guess a stud chain would do the same thing. I certainly don't do this anymore. I believe retraining to be the best answer, cure the real problem.

For both brake problems I would go back to a hackamore (or rope bridle hackamore) in the round coral, and retrain the horse to maintain gait and speed with NO contact, and then to do the one rein stop. The idea is to keep the horse as light as possible, so when you do apply contact, it means something. With constant contact, even in the hackamore or rope bridle, the horse will learn to lean into constant contact again. So don't do it!

I fully agree that clicker training or some other type of positive-reinforcement for when the horse is doing as asked (maintaining current speed on no contact) the horse is reassured it is doing as wanted. To reteach the one rein stop you need two reins, but the other rein is a supporting rein against the neck. A stop, relax, and then instant release and reward to let the horse know it's what you want.

Once the horse is responding and doing good transitions up and down with no contact and one rein 'gear downs' I'd move to an arena or pasture. Only when I had it there would I move out on a trail ride.

[motorgypsy]

That's interesting about paso finos and flexing because I know Chinook can go at a full gallop with her nose turned all the way to my leg. Luckily she's always had a great "whoa" with a half halt and a seat cue AND she's a pig so after clicker training she loves the halt cue!

I love the choke chain on the noseband tied to the saddle horn as an emergency brake. It probably worked well because it's so different that the runaway is reminded that there is someone up there even with a couple of short twitches on it. And you know what - the horse wasn't injured and neither was your sister. It may not be the best solution but it worked.:biggrin:

So why not explain a bit more detail on how to teach the one rein stop.

To teach the seat cue halt you just use it with the rein cue halt that the horse already knows and little by little reduce the cuing from the reins and increase the seat cuing which is a quick backward motion of the upper body followed by a more gentle return to the normal vertical position. In a fairly short time you will no longer need a rein cue at all unless the horse is really freaked and panicked. In that case I'll just give the reins a couple of little twitches along with the seat cue or do a half halt to slow the horse and do some circles until the horse relaxes - not tight punishment circles, just relaxed larger circles.

[Monty]

When I got Monty - he would start going before I was even in the saddle ! That can be rough when you use a mounting block !
And didn't want to stop at any speed :( I took him back to basic training - ground work in the round pen ,and added voice cues ! Now he has been doing what I say even if I don't give another cue . Even when I am on him :) I can just point for a roll back or a reverse. Took a lot of work - And yes - we started out with treats - now he knows ,if he does right - when we get done - he gets to graze or a treat.
I am not a trainer - it just worked for us.
Also - last 2 owners used a heavy Luna bit - we put him in a short shank broken snaffle and he was a super happy camper - talked to his original trainer and that is what he had been trained in ! The young gal that had him for 9 or so years had heavy hands - instead of learning herself - she would go to a harsher bit to make him do what she wanted . :(

[JimHannah]

Runaways are the worst. I'd rather deal with a bucker, a rearer, or a biter. I've found here that most runaways fall into one of three categories. Fear, pain, or a horribly bad evasive habit. Going to basics in training, discipline, and equipment usually gets you where you want to go. I strive to get a horse solid in a halter for everything possible before bitting. And then bit to help the horse and for the activity. Bits often mask what's really going on, and can develop resistance and resentment through anxiety and pain faster than any other single thing.

Jim

[motorgypsy]

I think there's a fourth category of runaway though and that's the horses and ponies ridden by kids or passive adults who have learned that they can pretty much do as they please. They don't necessarily mind being ridden and aren't necessarily trying to avoid work but they want to do what they want to do and they've been very successful at it. If they're out on the trail and decide they are hungry they'll just bolt home. If they're in the arena and are hungry they'll just bolt to the gate and won't budge. If the horse next to them takes off, they'll go with them. I'm convinced this is the reason ponies have such a bad reputation. No adults ride them and teach them to behave and frequently because they are so small, the kids who ride them are allowed to ride unsupervised. So they get away all sorts of bad behavior.

This kind of dominance behavior has been very easy to cure by make sure a knowledgeable adult has a word of prayer with the horse or pony any time it tries this.

The ones that scare me are the ones that pro trainers will tell you they had trouble with. They don't like people and they are the avoidance types who will do most anything to avoid contact with people. A trainer who just doesn't mesh with this particular horse many times will go to more severe bits or other more severe methods and really sour the horse on humans. It takes a lot of time to turn them around and stay safe.

One thing I didn't mention that we did with our very first paso fino who was a basket case as far as spooking, refusing to do anything but fino, going faster and faster when we rode her and so on. We hand fed that mare for a month. Everything she ate came from us - hay and grain. We got the idea from a TV show on elephant training. This is what they do with wild elephants. It takes them back to their dependent days as a baby and creates the mother/baby power and nurturing mentality in the elephant/horse. It was very time consuming but it did make a huge difference in the attitude of our mare. It was well worth the extra time.

[Pasofinoguy]

I agree the one rein stop. Start at a walk if the horse walks faster then you wish sit down hard and pull the nose to your knee. Wait till the horse is stopped fully and keep going. I like to flex both ways. Also do this at a trot and canter. The sitting down hard is the key. After awhile your horse will slam on its brakes if you sit down.

[Pam M]

I'm just the opposite of Jim - I much prefer a runaway to a rearer or bucker! But I mostly ride in the woods where there's not much chance of us encountering too much danger, as in cars or pavement. My mare was a terrible bolter and managed to run right out from under me twice. Not fun. She'll still bolt but it's now pretty easily controlled since I know the "tricks" to stop her. First, I relax. I stand up a bit in the stirrups and lean a little forward, which I know is a "go" cue but it helps me keep my balance when she's in a dead gallop (I don't use a bit and don't have a lot of brakes). Second, depending on WHY she's bolted, I either 1) urge her to go faster, in which case she usually slows down immediately (this is when she's having an "attitude" bolt), or 2) I work on getting her attention by using light pressure on alternating reins (for a "fear" bolt). I've tried the one rein stop but apparently we don't know it well enough since she's almost tumbled over before while trying to keep running with her head turned! If we have enough open space, I'll pull her in a big circle. Once I can get her attention, I can stop her easily but it took us a while to get to this point. For me the key was patience and taking the time to figure out what worked with her since she's such a spooky and sensitive mare. And, most importantly, staying calm. She feeds off my reactions. So I've learned to take a deep breath and stay calm in many situations, such as when she's in her mountain goat persona and jumps up and down 4' cliffs!

[CarolU]

My sister's horse was in the 4th category that Nancy described, she'd take the bit in her mouth and run where-ever she had an inkling to go. It never was a fear-bolt. She was stronger then us kids and she knew it. The emergency brake worked, and I think with time we became more knowledgeable, she became better trained, and it became a non-issue. I wouldn't let a kid ride a horse like this now, but this was years ago and in an age where a "kids horse" was cheap. Both our horses were green broke when we got them.

(This mare never quit 'testing' riders. Years later she'd put her head down and if they couldn't get it up, they didn't go for a ride. LOL You'd watch them pull on her head to no avail. It was pretty funny, because one spur in the gut got her head up and a willing attitude just fine.)

Adam described the one rein stop very well, in your HACKAMORE you first train the flex, then you walk and train the drop seat/flex to the stop and RELAX, and release. Do both sides repeatedly. Then do it at the trot or corto, then at the canter. You can add an emergency dismount to the INSIDE of the flex if you want. With time the horse will stop when drop your seat or raise (not pull) one rein. You use the one rein LIFT to change gaits downward.

And what Pam described is perfect. A horse should be trained to SPOOK IN PLACE so fear-bolting becomes a non-issue. I think my horses would still bolt from a mountain lion, but in that case I think I want to run away with them.

[DebbieS]

I think my horses would still bolt from a mountain lion, but in that case I think I want to run away with them.

Yes, me too!! Or at last year's horse expo, when the attack Shetland stallion came at us - I REALLY wanted Listo to run, but he wanted to fight instead.

Occasionally, I ride along the highway and there is a ramp on/off the interstate close by. When the big semi-trucks come up the ramp, and use their air-brakes, I almost lose Listo every time. It's such an obnoxious sound, I can't blame him. I still use the one-rein stop with him, and we do a few circles, relax, pet his neck, STAND there until the truck goes by us, then we're on our way (at a walk). I know he's just scared, not trying to 'run away' with me.

[JimHannah]

Hey Pam,
Send me your rearers, buckers and biters, and I'll send you some runaways.

Jim

[Cindy]

Jim, you have too many PMs. LOL Tried to send you one and it would not go through. I sent you another copy of the video last week so you should be getting it if you have not already.

[Pam M]

Hey Jim, if I had any biters you betcha I'd send them your way! Biters and kickers are my least favorites! But my only rearer is the same one that's my bolter and I don't have any buckers. Used to. Fixed that! But I will tell you what I really think the key was to calming down my mare...we started riding 15, 18, 20 mile rides. She finally got tired. Now she's really good at pacing herself since she never knows how long we'll be out and she's less apt to take off with me. The real key was wet blankets more than anything else.

[JimHannah]

Hi Cindy,
Thanks for letting me know about the PM. I don't know what's up with that. One day it's OK, the next I'm way past full up. I've got a little space now.

Yeah Buddy, wet blankets, no substitute.

Jim

[motorgypsy]

It worked on my "want to go too fast" girl too. She was never a runaway - just refused to go the speed I asked for. Amazing what 25 miles will do for that problem.