HYPP ummmm interesting..

[appyday]

http://www.fightingms.org/hypp.html

[GeorgeGuns]

Nuts, it says the HyPP video is down (bad pun if you ask me)

[Pasogirlz]

The video was playing for me. :-?

[Cindy]

I have never seen a horse with HYPP. Having now seen it, it makes me sick that people actually knowingly breed this just so their horses have bigger pecs and lats. How could you watch that mare go through that and on top of that she has to take care of that foal. And seeing the foal go through seeing it's mother like that. How could one even want to propalgate the species knowing that one might have to witness the result of said propalgation go through this misery. I just don't get it. People truely suck.

[Mellifluous]

Ditto Cindy.

HYPP and a host of other reasons got me out of the AQHA and APHA.
Those guys still believe in "line breeding or inbreeding, it's all the same to us." Three Bars carried it, the people kept breeding him to his off spring or to full siblings... :duh Then the APHA and ApHA people wanted to look like colored & spotted halter horses...it just got sicker from there. That was back in the 1970's...isn't it 2006? :(
That video was terribly sad. I have seen those horses in person back in 1998, but why someone ,WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER BY NOW, would breed that mare knowing she will pass this on to her offspring???
I can hardly watch the video, how can they watch her daily???

[moonrize]

**Puts on Flame Suit**

I don't think any horse with a HYPP positive gene should be bred, nor should other horses of poor quality or other known diseases. Breeding should only be done to improve the breed, not just make another horse. Same with dogs or cats or even dang gerbils for that matter. I have no respect for people who continue to breed animals who will pass on hereditary illnesses or poor conformation. Period.

[appyday]

Sorry Mary I have done Apps for years..I have NEVER seen a breed that was more linebred/inbred then the Paso Fino..

[motorgypsy]

Yes HYPP is terrible. We boarded with a filly who had one HYPP gene and she had an attack while she was there. The eye cysts is Rockies is also really nasty as is lethal white and a host of other nasty things. You just don't breed these animals unless there is some really exceptional reason (not cosmetic - I'm thinking something like extraordiny resistance to disease or something like that) and then you cull ruthlessly to get rid of the bad gene.

Line breeding and inbreeding aren't the enemy. Line breeding and inbreeding animals with known genetic flaws is. Seeing eye dogs today are the result of inbreeding and line breeding to one animal. Line breeding and inbreeding are the only way to "set" really desireable traits.

We have a massively linebred and inbred mare who is fantastic. Before you do it though you have to know the animals' history. If you have personally seen and ridden and know the owners of the animals parents, grandparents etc. and know they are sound in old age, no mental problems, no reproductive problems, no conformation problems. no health problems, it's the best way in the world to get a great baby. We own the great grandmother of our colt, her grandson, great grandaughter and great grandson. They are great horses with great gait. We would definitely line breed this particular line.

Supposedly there is more genetic diversity in the paso fino than in any other breed. There are clusters that are inbred but if you look at the entire breed there are many different lines that are quite different in looks and personality, size and style of gait. The winning show paso finos are fairly closely related for the most part but the general QH riding public would not buy this horse. They want an on/off switch and they want in general a larger size. Our breed has all of this from small to pretty large and massive, different colors, appearance, body type, head shape, all sorts of variety. And let's hope the small breeder continues to keep the gene pool diverse by resonsible breeding of outstanding individuals with the best gait possible.

Appy-
You got that right. Being so new to this breed and after my slow research on Paso lineage, I am finding the same thing.
Now that we know more about genetics, what is being done to educate breeders?
Responsible, informed,and conscientious breeders for all animals...that's what is needed.

Way to say it, Kyle S. Thank you for your insite. I now have a better understanding of the Paso lineage and why they were bred that way.

My next question would be:
Are there a lot of Paso breeders that are combining the PR bloodlines with that of the Columbian lines?

[Linda Y]

Sorry Mary I have done Apps for years..I have NEVER seen a breed that was more linebred/inbred then the Paso Fino..

I agree...it isn't the in and line breeding that has caused HYPP. It was
*continuing* to breed to the particular individual and his offspring that carried the defective gene. And all in the name of blue ribbons. That is one of the reasons I got out of Paints, too. How incredibly selfish and presumptious of people to breed two positive horses on purpose because they MAY be massive hunks of horseflesh that will win a ribbon. Sometimes they aren't massive enough, or have some other conformation fault that puts them out of the halter ring. Then what happens to them? Either put to sleep, or a life of waiting for the next attack to hit. Many HYPP horses are so muscle bound that they can't even be ridden. I saw a lovely Paint gelding go through the sale ring a couple years ago and bring a very low price. He was loaded with muscle, but past his prime as a halter horse and not broke to ride.
I am sorry to rant. I just think that a lot of breeders have only their pocketbooks at heart. :realmad

[pnalley]

A huge part of the problem with HyPP is that it was not "announced" until after Impressive's death. By that time his bloodlines had flooded the stock horse market. AQHA, APHA & ApHC.

I got lucky I had one Impressive bred QH that luckily tested N/N once the news came out. I also had another Impressive baby in utro. Luckily she also tested N/N. I wouldn't consider a N/H or H/H horse.

I have read NOTHING that indicates Three Bars had HyPP, but it's rather odd that 3 of his better known lines all seem to have a genetic defect.

My personal opinion on Impressive bred (close up) horses with or without HyPP: They can be the most athletic horse you could ever imagine to ride, or they can be nut cases. Usually I have seen no middle road with them. I still have 2, I believe they will be my last.

[motorgypsy]

Yes Colombian and PPR paso finos lines have been combined with spectacular results. The slightly lateral tendency of the PPR combined with the slightly diagonal tendency of the Colombian, when combined, can produce is horse with the most even gait you could ever hope for, the smoothness of the PPR and the snap of the Colombian. Our Chinook, who is fino with a great largo, is a half and half essentially. Her father is Plebeyo, Colombian fino line with one PPR waaaay back, and her mom is the best of the PPR lines back to Maria Luisa. Our Arwen is also PPR mom and Colombian dad as is Adriel and all have fabulous gait. Now our best largo mare is 7/8 PPR but she's Hilachas twice so she got his looks, vigor and flash with the awsome PPR smoothness and truly fine step. She hits the ground like a feather touch. Her son by our Colombian stallion has her beautiful action but his dad tightened his suspensories which was needed. We're very excited about him because he can jump four feet straight up in "coon jumping" style.

We would like to see the PPR pure lines perpetuated so we always have the outcross to go back to. There are many pure Colombian lines so we don't have to worry as much about keeping them although there are some obscure and non Hilachas lines that need some help, but there aren't a lot of PPR lines since a lot of the PR breeders went to Colombian paso finos or crosses. Our PPR mare is the best of the PPR lines and her brother and nephew are still in Puerto Rico and her nephew is spectacular! We're husband hunting for her so we can help perpetuate this wonderful line.

[appyday]

I have a PPR and a pure Colombian I plan to breed this year...


BTW some of you may not know but I have an HYPP horse..That is why I have been able to tend to the fillies like I do..Roger does not eat hay and his diet demands me to feed at least every 8 hours..the babies have benfited from this..BTW Roger is non syptomatic for 2 yrs on diet alone no meds..He never had fits like in the video but NIGHTLY he would have muscle trimmors to the point it looked like snakes under the skin..

[Paula]

I have a HYPP N/H gelding and yes, I bought him knowing that. The good news is, he is non-symptomatic AND the even better news is.. he is a gelding.

However, HYPP isn't necessarily a death sentence and for all those people who jump on the bandwagon about breeding a genetically defective (HYPP) horse, these are the same people who are breeding parrot mouthed, cryptorchid and crooked legged horses.

Those are defects, too!

[appyday]

Wow H/H and non symptomatic thats great Roger is "umm just" N/H. If you ever run into problems and need help with a diet staying under 1%K let me know..I can hood you up..

[Paula]

Jesus! I meant N/H... NOT H/H. That was a TYPO!!!! I fixed it.

[Linda Y]

I have read NOTHING that indicates Three Bars had HyPP, but it's rather odd that 3 of his better known lines all seem to have a genetic defect.



Also, Three Bars was a TB.

[Paula]

LOL, Appy.. glad to know I'm not the only one who makes typos... You can "Hood" me up if I need help. :lol:

[appyday]

Jesus! I meant N/H... NOT H/H. That was a TYPO!!!! I fixed it.

Holy crap I thought you were making history with an H/H horse that was non syptomatic...

[pnalley]

Appy,
Is he N/H or H/H?

[appyday]

Appy,
Is he N/H or H/H?

Mine? Roger is N/H here he is as a 3 yr old..

http://appyday.com/images/Horses/Roger%20ME%20DE.jpg

[Paula]

Let's see if this works... this is my N/H gelding as a long yearling.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/DragginH/GoldCoast2006.jpg

[Terry Wallace]

"Three Bars carried it????" Say what? Three Bars was a Thoroughbred, not a Quarter Horse..... ;-)

There is more inbreeding and line breeding in Paso Finos than the AQHA people ever thought about doing!

At least thats how it was for the 17 years I raised AQHA & APHA horses.... ;-)