Our First Tiger

[Rose Mary Axell]

I am so excited! Our first tiger foal was born today. Her name is SD Precious Rain (Furisoa del Arco Iris x Stormin Rain Spirit.) She is a real beauty and she is alreay gaiting!

Stormin Rain Spirit (Rain) is a few spot gaited Appy stallion that we bought a couple of years ago. (I have added his photo below.) He was in really, really, rough shape when we got him and we wondered if he would ever have any value. It was a long road to recovery but he has turned out great. After seeing his first foal I know he is going to be a keeper. This stallion stands 15.2 at three years old and he is still growing so I know he is going to be adding a lot of size to our foals. We will be breeing 3 or 4 of our Paso Fino mares to him this year.

I am so very excited about diversifying our breeding program!

[Pasofinoguy]

Thats a great looking baby

[PattiB]

Nice LOUD markings!

[andrea]

wow I love the color. Congratulations

[moonrize]

CONGRATS, what a beautiful filly. :v:

[CarolU]

Rose Mary, that is some kind of AWESOME baby there! Wow, what beautiful markings! Congratulations!

[Linda Y]

Oh, my. My dream horse. An Appaloosa Paso.

[HotShotLC]

1367

Who knows he could end up like this one day.

[Pasogirlz]

Wow, you did get perfecto coloring. Congrats. Adorable baby.

[Rose Mary Axell]

Thanks. I am really thrilled! I can't stop grinning! :o)

I made sure I told the filly's mom and dad how proud I was of them, and that I am definately breeding that way again.

Now I just need to find this little girl a good home!

[Soltera]

What a fantastic tiger!! Way to go! Will the white keep going down her legs? Does she have any reverse ermine spots? What can you tell about the gait?

[pasorider]

Well, she can come live in my barn anytime. It sure would be a culture shock from Canada to Lousiana.

[PASOFAN]

Stunning markings!! WOWZER!! You sure got a nice filly!!

:grayhorse:

[Rose Mary Axell]

Soltera

Will the white keep going down her legs? - I do not think so. Her sire comes from lepard lines and from what I have been told it's genetics are a bit differnt than the roaning appaloosa genetics that tend to get whiter as the horse gets older. (Any one more familiar with the appaloosa genetics is welcome to correct me if I am wrong.)

Does she have any reverse ermine spots? - Not that I have seen

What can you tell about the gait? - I saw the filly doing a broken pace the first day she was born, so I know that she has the gait... What it will actually develop into as she gets older is hard to tell. Her dam is very performance gaited. The appy sire moves more like a TWH when he gaits. I have not got him under saddle yet and I expect riding him will bring out more of his gait. It is certainly not as consistent as my Pasos, but it is definately there.

[SandyMM]

What are the breeding ramifications of crossing a Paso with an App for gaited color? Will the gaited offspring consistently produce gaited color or does each Tiger need to be from an App-gaited cross?

[CarolU]

What are the breeding ramifications of crossing a Paso with an App for gaited color? Will the gaited offspring consistently produce gaited color or does each Tiger need to be from an App-gaited cross?

I talked to a woman with Tigers last weekend. The "Indian Shuffle" is a true gait of 'real' Appaloosas. Gait was part of the original breed. You can read about this in old western articles and novels. Then 'they' decided they wanted spotted Quarter Horses and bred away from gait.

There are still Appy's who do the Indian Shuffle. These are the foundation for the Tiger breed. Bred back to gaited Spanish stock horses, they hope to resurrect the real Appaloosa.

I think the Nez Perce would be proud. (I will trot no more, forever)

[SandyMM]

I was aware of the 'Indian Shuffle'. A friend had an App gelding she insisted 'had it', although I never saw him do anything but sling her off and trot... :v:

[Mo.D]

Wow wow wow,BEAUTIFUL perfectly marked filly!!!! You absolutely have EVERY right to be very proud!! Your friend,Mo

[Soltera]

I've read around on the internet about the Tiger genetics, but it really made my head spin. The pictures are incredible, especially when they have white legs with the little triangle of black. I'll try to post one here.

I had an App with the shuffle, and let me give you a bit of background. He was a grandson of Sunspot Revel (through Busta Britches Sunspot). His bloodlines were very old! He was a rangy, solid bay who became a reverse leopard, as did several of his siblings. They gelded Busta after only about 12 babies bc he kept producing reverse leopards, and because his offspring tended to be very Appendix/TB conformed, like my boy (I could only register him as a Colorado Ranger). He was my first horse (I was about 16), and I had the privilege of being the first on his back, under the supervision of a trainer who had studied with Monty Foreman, a very progressive cowboy trainer who took Sunspot Revel to the World Championship.

I mention the above merely to explain that once we got my gelding under saddle, he exhibited a lovely shuffle, “broken trot”, which I promptly trained out of him, not knowing any better, and within about 6 months it was gone. The deal was I got a horse if I sold him to pay for my first semester of college, so I don't know if he ever got it back (but he went to a home where he was exquisitely cared for and ridden by grandkids until he died in his late twenties – a real dream home situation!).

I think Busta just threw throwbacks! LOL! Since my baby didn’t exhibit regular App confo and had an unusual and rare color pattern, I now believe he was predisposed to shuffle.

But what do I know? :v:

[Blameitonbrio]

I think the Nez Perce would be proud. (I will trot no more, forever)

Good one...I love it!

Beautiful foal!

[Rose Mary Axell]

Yes the "Indian shuffe" is a tru Appy trait. It actually Traces back to their Spanish heratage. Here is an excerpt from my research:

Today’s Appaloosa horses traces back to the first gaited equines brought to the New World by the Conquistadors. Some of the horses imported by these Spanish explorers carried the spotted coloration that is the hallmark of today’s Appaloosas. Over the years a few of the Conquistadors horses escaped into the wilds. The North American continent proved to be an ideal procreation grounds, and the escapees thrived. Over time the descendants of these spotted, gaited horses, made their way into north and west portions of the continent. The Nez Percé Indians, who inhabited areas of Washington, Oregon, and Idaho, were first introduced to these unique horses around 1700 A.D.

The Nez Percé became accomplished horsemen and they were great admirers of spotted coat patterns. These Native Americans began a unique selective breeding program that lead to the development of vast herds of these colourful spotted horses.The most highly prized of the Nez Percé horses were distinguished not only by their spotted coat pattern, but also by their easy riding gait. Later this gait was dubbed the “Indian Shuffle.” The shuffle is a four-beat, ground-covering, intermediate gait, that is exceptionally smooth. You can read more on my web site on our breed information page: http://smoothgait.com/Breed_information.html

There are very few breeders that are still breeing pure Appaloosa lines. In fact most Appaloosa breeders do not even know that gaited Appaloosas exist. Most of the true Appaloosa characteristics have been so diluted with Quarter Horse blood, that majority of people do not even recognize true Appaloosa characteristics. Unfortunately the Appaloosa has become little more than a spotted Quarter Horse. Our Appaloosa stallion is from very old time Appy blood lines. It took me 3 years of hard searching to find him. He is a few spot and he has the "Indian Shuffle" gait. As a youngster our stallion was pure white with black triangles of colour on his feet. He is a gauranteed colour producer. You can see him on our stallion page at: http://smoothgait.com/Stallions.html

This is a whole new world for us. I love the Paso Finos but we have so many clients that want a Paso gaited horse that is over 15 hands. We have a few Pasos that are over 15 hands but they are not all that common. A few years ago we decided that we would look for a gaited Apaloosa stallion to add to our breeding program. I really liked the Tiger horses and with the gaited Appy stallion bred to our mares we can produce the size and the gait that our clients want. I am very excited about this new venture! We will be breeding the majority of our mares this way this year.

Here is a link to our new fillies page: http://smoothgait.com/Rains_Foals.html

[Soltera]

Fascinating! Do you have any more pics of that stallion? I'd love to see his triangles!!

[pnalley]

The baby is beautiful. I have apps & Paso's so that is my dream filly. The stallion is BY FAR the nicest shuffler and few spot I have seen.

Soltera, all my Apps are the Britches bloodlines via Navajo Britches.

I have never heard of reverse ermine spots. Could you be talking about lightning marks on the legs? Or halo (peacock spots)?

One thing about the Appy coat pattern, you never know what it will look like the next day.

Are any photo's of the stallion available as a youngster?

[Serendipity]

what a cute girl,I'd love to have one that looked like that but if i bred it would for sure trot and be a solid as night,LOL thats my luck,LOL

enjoy her

[Mo.D]

Yes, I too would like to see pictures of him at younger ages!! Your friend,Mo

[Rose Mary Axell]

This link will take you to Rain's baby photo and his family tree.

http://www.smoothgait.com/Rains_Familytree.html

Unfortunately I can not find my pictures of Rain that shows the triangles on his feet.

[mustangrider]

Google spanish jennet. I know of a woman breeding atigrado colored pasos. Basically, appy and paso. Result is LP patterned gaited horse. Modern recreation of old, extinct breed, Spanish jennet. I have one said colt. He is a minimally marked atigrado colt. He is spotting up more every day. He is well built, great markings, and wonderful temperment. He gaits well, not great, but we expect it to come out more under saddle. He is a year old now.

There is a Tiger horse, Walkaloosa, Spanish jennet...Try googling them.

You might like what you see.

If both of your horses are registered with appy and pfha, you can register them as Spanish Jennet as well.

Your baby is adorable and is atigrado patterned. Beautiful.

I have a pinto paso and an atigrado paso....How colorful is my farm....LOL.

[motorgypsy]

First of all a gaited horse is a gaited horse regardless of what we teach them to do under saddle. So I'm sure a shuffling app still shuffles even if he has to do it after dark in the pasture by himself.:biggrin:

We've also been fascinated by appaloosa horses for years. I read about them as a child and never lost an interest in both the color and the breed that was developed by the Nez Perce. When we bought our pintaloosa mini I started reading about the appaloosa complex. The fact that they change color from year to year, that the best were gaited, that they had phenomenal endurance and exceptional intelligence.

From what we've read so far the genes that make up the appaloosa complex are dominant so offspring with only one set will still have some type of app coloring. Heterozygous individuals can be nearly white and homozygous individuals can have considerable color but the pattern is different enough so that you can pretty much tell visually a few spot or homozygous from a heterozygous app. If you look up appaloosa complex you'll find some great pictures showing the difference.

Few spot or homozygous appaloosas seem to have a form of inherited stationary night blindness. The study was done fairly recently and again is described if you google appaloosa complex. The owners of horses with the problem had no idea they had it they adapt so well and can function just fine with this problem. No heterozygous individuals have been identified with it so far.

Gait - if both parents have gait the odds are very good that the offspring will gait. I personally know a paso fino stallion crossed with a purebred Arabian mare and the foal is gaited. She prefers trot but will gait if asked to without any training for gait. What will be interesting is to see the characteristics of the gait of the foal because those of you who have see other gaited breeds move know that there is alot more to gait than an even four beat footfall. TW's have that "swivel butt" action, both Rockies and Foxtrotters seem to have more loft and impact and the Rockies I've seen in shows have a lot more action. The over striding of some gaited horses is fairly extreme. Paso finos don't generally over stride although I'm sure some can do it but it's not at all typical of the breed. Some gaited breeds have a head bob, others don't. Some have an almost pendulum action and others are more like the movement of the legs in a circle and some are in between. The really well gaited Florida Cracker that I watched reminded me of what is called creeping in human walking. There seems to be more bend in the legs and more flexibility than in the paso fino. Cracker breeders call the Cracker gait the "coon rack" and if you look at how a racoon moves down low and catlike you can see why the gait is called that. There is winging and paddling, and rotation of the shoulder in Peruvians and all sorts of different types of actions by horses that are considered good examples of their breed. So it will be very interesting to see how the filly's gait compares to mom and dad's gait. But I suspect gait is an incomplete dominance type gene because it not only depends on the ability and desire to move one foot at a time even when going fast but it also depends on how the horse is put together so you may have a mindset for one way of moving but a body that modifies that mindset somewhat so you get something between both parents for closer to one or the other. And I would bet the siblings of the same cross would not necessarily gait quite the same.

It will be very interesting to watch the development of the tiger horses. Personally I'd love to own a 13 2, paso fino with app coloration, paso fino gait and the endurance and brains of both breeds.

[Soltera]

First of all a gaited horse is a gaited horse regardless of what we teach them to do under saddle. So I'm sure a shuffling app still shuffles even if he has to do it after dark in the pasture by himself.:biggrin:

Good Grief, what childish hubris (slaps self on forehead)! Can't believe I thought that all these years. However, he probably shuffled with his forever-home riders. Thanks, MGs.....the things we think.....sheesh....:o



It will be very interesting to watch the development of the tiger horses. Personally I'd love to own a 13 2, paso fino with app coloration, paso fino gait and the endurance and brains of both breeds.

What YOU said!

[pnalley]

Over the years I have had a few Apps, we bred them for a time. ALL my App babies shuffled at birth. The few spot shuffled until he was about 6 month old, then poof it was gone. None of them exhibit the shuffle now.

Although you may think you can spot (no pun intended) a homozygous App visually, that is NOT true. For an App to have one of the two coat patterns believed to be homozygous it must be App to App crossed. There are out crossed horses that will roan as they age, and wind up looking like a few spot, but in reality they are not. So, to be sure you must look at pedigree, coat pattern & preferably baby photo's.

Snow-cap & Few spot are the two coat patterns believed to be homozygous.

[Rose Mary Axell]

Personally I'd love to own a 13 2, paso fino with app coloration, paso fino gait and the endurance and brains of both breeds.

I would like to help you out with that one but my smallest mare is 13.3 and the stallion is way bigger. LOL

Up here everyone sneers at horse that are under 15 hands. We have a really hard time selling horses that are 14 hands or smaller. In fact I have a 6 year old mare hear that is 13.3 and I am almost ready to give her away because I have not found one person intrested in her. She had a start under saddle but she needs more work and I know I will never get my investment back out of her because she is just too small!
She is of show lines and has a great gait, but her size is a big deterent.

I live in the land of the quarter horse and everyone up here thinks that a horse has to be at least 15 hands to be rideable! That is one of the reasons that I think the appy crosses will be a better seller up here.

[motorgypsy]

And I've also found that most people don't know 14 hands or 15 hands when they see it. I was told Chinook was 14 2. She's 13 2 on the money. Brandy is also 13 2 but everyone thinks she's a full hand taller than Chinook. Go figure?? And that's when they see them side by side. ??? I think it's the bigger equals more powerful syndrome. In our presidential elections only once I think did the shorter man win the election and once the tall man won the popular vote but not the presidency - but that's another story:biggrin:

If I owned a fairly large herd of paso finos and had a fair number for sale I'd just saddle up a whole variety because we rode larger ones but quite frankly the smaller one was the best when we bought our second paso fino. When we bought numbers five and six there were a number of larger ones for sale but the ones we bought were in the middle - good big boned well gaited 14 and 14 1. Do your kids also ride these great big things???

So how about some pictures of your "teeny girl"??

If I wanted big I'd buy an elephant:v::v: Now that would be really cool but think of the hay bill and the poop clean up:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Rose Mary Axell]

This is our small girl - she is betreen 13.3 - 14 hands and very stocky

http://smoothgait.com/Condesa_2005.jpg

Sd Condessa de Plata
2001 black/grey Paso Fino mare
(Banderas Desplegades x Furiosa del Arco Iris)


There is more information on our web site on the sales page
http://smoothgait.com/Sales_1.html


My kids are teen agers and have no real intrest in the horses I am afraid. I can only ride so many myself. LOL

[motorgypsy]

What a sweet looking girl. Has she had a foal?

[Rose Mary Axell]

Has she had a foal?

Nope we have not bred her because she is too small for my clients, and I do not want to breed horses I can not sell. I have thought about breeding her to my Appy... but I would rather sell her to a good home.

[Rusel]

Gorgeous filly.... CONGRADULATIONS on believing in your boy...!!! He sure came around from what he was when you got him.... guess your test baby proved your faith..... That is a well put together foal... Get him registered with the Tiger Horse Assn.. they're having their first Nationals in June in Virginia...

Let me know what your asking for her and her estimated size at maturity.... I'm sure she'll sell before she's weaned...!!! Post sire and dams pedigree on allbreedpedigree.com

[Rusel]

Personally I'd love to own a 13 2, paso fino with app coloration, paso fino gait and the endurance and brains of both breeds.

That's why that mare in the photo with the colt is my number one Tiger mare..... she is a family member... with a forever no sale status.... just an awesome mare...

[motorgypsy]

I can understand that Rusel!

Believe me Rose Mary we also live in the land of the QH/paint. And the land of the desire for horses as tall as a house. And the funny thing is cowboys who lived on their horses did NOt ride big horses. Why? Because they had to be on and off all the time and big horses offered them nothing that they really needed for their work. But people now who ride at a slow walk on a trail ride or are out to jump 6 foot fences want as big as possible. Makes no sense at all to me though for the average, not very proficient rider to want something so big if they fell off at a dead stop they'd probably be killed or maimed for life.:rolleyes: And if they weren't they couldn't get back on without a boost or a stump.

cowboy and horse

http://www.adamjahiel.com/images/lastcowboy/First_Light_bgp.jpg

http://www.adamjahiel.com/LastCowboy_gall12.html

[Rose Mary Axell]

Let me know what your asking for her and her estimated size at maturity.... I'm sure she'll sell before she's weaned...!!! Post sire and dams pedigree on allbreedpedigree.com

Hi Rusel

I posted the pedigrees as you requested. I would think the filly would be around 15 hands. I am asking $3500 for her.

I am sending you an e-mail with some follow up and some questions.

Rose