Breeding program or not?????

[Boyd R]

This is stricktly a Hypothetical scenario but the answers given will be much appreciated as food for thought.

Lets say Tree Huggers across the Nation band together to create private communities. Within these communities there is a need for horses. There god/s have told them they must be of one breed. That breed to be Paso Finos. They are to start with one community and spread across the Nation. As they go out and begin to look for Pasos to bing into their community they find some Pasos fit their needs better than others.

The question they face is, once they get there foundation of horses established do they breed, raise and train their own horses or keep going outside of the community?

I will leave you all with that. All points of view are welcome and needed. KEEP IT CIVIL. Truelly think about the impact of all the scenarios, not only the breed but economy.

[Heidi]

I think it sounds pretty far-fetched, but I would expect them to continue to look for horses outside their community for genetic diversity before they maintained their own breeding herd/lines and closed their doors to the world. Same could be said for the people, too...

[GregM]

Oddly enough, I am aware of two communities not unlike that, one of them in Newnan. Organic farming, mixed residence and business, horse facilty with training track, etc. They just opened a bike shop.
The other is near Mobile and is an environmentally friendly developement of a small percentage of a multi-thousand acre family farm. Community barn and pastures, community management of the forrested and farming land plus the plots they are selling are 10-25 acres. Some friends of mine will probably buy there and will need horses, won't they? :-) There are TN Walkers there now.

[CarolU]

I agree with Heidi, but for different reasons. There is currently an over-supply of horses in the U.S. Until people stop dumping horses and start breeding responsibly it is the moral and ethical thing to do, give existing horses a good home rather then breed more 'over-supply.'

Once the supply problem in the U.S. adjusts to fit demand, I would think they'd start breeding with the stock they have. They should, at that point have plenty of horses for genetic diversity and know which horses are worth reproducing and which aren't.

[Soltera]

In a tree hugging community, would they not need draft animals??

[Heidi]

Carol brought up a good point about the current state of horse-over-population and I'd like to expound on it a bit; You can buy what you want as you buy it. If you breed for it, it is hit/miss unless you are spot-on with your knowledge and breeding program. I think there would be little room for 'learning'.

[motorgypsy]

I don't buy the "general over production of horses" argument as a reason to stop breeding really good quality horses. Yes there is an overproduction of horses by people who are either chasing a goal like winning the "big race" or breeding when they don't know any better or have an addiction.

The problem with this argument is that I don't WANT those poorly conformed bad tempered Quaraterpasopintaloasesian bluee eyed sport horses. I want a good, well trained paso fino with good disposition, good gait, intelligent, sound and fun. If you think for a minute that you will ever be able to find one of these if we stop all breeding until every horse already in existence has a good home, you are very wrong. They will never be bred again. There is too much money at stake in certain breeds and too many people who will breed anything to anything just because they can, to make room for the breeds that don't bring in the big bucks. So you may as well eliminate most breeds.

I had a girl at the animal shelter tell me no one should be breeding cats because too many cats do not have homes. That's sad but true. But do you really want one of these wild, unsocialized, very likely sick cats in place of that lovely socialized animal you bought from a responsible breeder of purebred cats? No. Yes there are "mutt" cats that are great pets. But far too many are not. They will never be socialized and never be pets. If we can use them for rat control or barn cats after they are neutered, that's great. But don't ask me to give up the pet I want just because other people are irresponsible and let their animals run loose and breed at will. This is reverse Darwinisn at its worst. Let the worst breed and save them all and don't breed the best because there are too many bad ones already here that need homes.

If you stop people from breeding the horses people want to own, you won't get more homes for the sad, lame, sick, nasty tempered horses that need them. You'll just get less horse owners in general. Is this really what we want or need?

I'm all for responsible breeding and promoting neutering of animals that are not breeding quality. But to stop breeding high quality horses just because there are a lot of poor quality horses who need homes,, many who are not suited or fit enough to be a pet let alone a riding horse, is NOT the solution.

One possible solution is to charge breeders a fee that is fairly pricey if they breed a horse that is not pedigreed or whose breeding has not been preapproved. They are doing this with dogs in some areas. Mutt breeders have to pay a steep price to get a dog license. Purebred breeders can have the fee waived but numbers of the pedigreed dogs are limited. It may come down to this to stop random horse breedings. To get the fee waived the breeder who want to cross something like app and paso fino and who has plan can have the fees waived. Anyway there are ways to at least slow down irresponsible breeders but stopping the good responsible breeders is not the answer.

[motorgypsy]

Now Boyd - to answer your question - if I were a member of this group I would breed for the best of what we already have and continue to look for individuals outside this group that would have a trait that was missing from our existing gene pool. So - I would do both - breed our own and look for good horses outside. I would establish a number that could be managed on existing lands, stick to this number, sell inferior horses and buy replacements from outside or breed them from superior individuals. I would eliminate both mares and stallions from our gene pool if a flaw showed up in their lines that appeared to be hereditary and adapt the characteristics as the wants and needs of the group changed. I would also plan in advance for how we would manage our geriatric horses in comfort in the most efficient and healthy manner to be sure they have a pleasant retirement.

I would also use some of the paso finos for driving and working like pulling work sleds and things they could manage and own a few draft horses for the larger jobs. But not many because they just eat too much.

[CarolU]

BTW - for the record, I am indeed a "tree hugger." If you all knew what we do to get a tree to grow out here, you'd hug them too!

[Boyd R]

Wow I was expecting a lot more input on this by now.

For one "Tree huggers" Is just being used Hypothetically. It could be any group, Nudists, Gays, Democrats, Republicans, Duck hunters of America, etc.

As for the Job of the horse again just assume that the Paso Fino fits the bill. The point is that outside of the community the majority of the horses are bred and trained largely to serve another purpose.

Carol and Heidi what would be the direct impact on the horse population if this group only went out and took in the unwanteds? That is if these horse would meet their needs. Also by buying from the outside community would possibly give the unwanteds more oppurtunity to fill the spot of that purchased horse elswhere.

In my opinion if the community (and this is exagerated of course) bought every Paso available along with the unwanteds the result would not slow down the breeding but only put an extreme demand to produce more. To slow breeding there has to be no market for the unwanteds. The careless breeders that breed with no thought about market. Will find other ways to rid themselves of horses they have no need for. If they can't give them away they can always start up the backhoe and get out the rifle. (just 1 senario).

What would be the economic impacts of breeding for themselves, or purchasing from outside?

We also have to discuss training. Lets say, (Hypothetically) these horses main duty would be driving, Jumper, roping, dressage etc. Not what Pasos are used for but fully capable of doing. The community could do the training themselves but what happens if they want horses trained for this and are willing to pay a fair price for a horse that suits their needs the day of pickup.