Hay questions

[Blair]

I have a few questions regarding hay for horses. I have always purchased my hay from a local farmer and this past year it was getting expensive at $5.50/bale (for here anyway - still way cheaper than what you in South pay). I have always been taught that second cutting is best (more tender, less weeds???) for horses and that is what I have always purchased (even though it cost more). We almost didn't get a second cutting here last year with the drought but we got lucky in late August and the farmers got a September crop.

This year we are having 5 of our acres cut for hay. We killed all of the weeds 3 years ago, soil tested, limed and seed drilled with an orchard grass/blue grass/white clover (for nitrogen replacement). The field has been kept tended like a lawn (my husband is fastidous and wants the whole place to look perfectly manicured). This year I convinced him to consider letting it go for hay and we got prices for having it done. The farmer next door is doing it for fuel cost only since we got the other neighbors to let him hay theirs and keep the crops.

This spring has been VERY wet and now we are expecting 4 perfect days of weather so the cutting has started. Would you guys suggest we take the first cutting and call ourselves lucky and will it be good enough for horses???? My husband is not so keen on letting it grow out again on the "possibility" of getting a second cutting. Plus then I would have to get rid of the first cutting (the farmer would take it I am sure for his cows or to sell).
Thoughts??? We are told to expect 150-200 bales off of this and that is what we need for the winter here.

Thanks!

[CarolU]

Gosh, I wish I had your problem! :)

I saw a bumper sticker once, it said: "Legalize gambling. Why let farmers have all the fun?"

I think I'd cut the crop, bale it and then send it for testing. If it looks good, keep it and graze your pasture. If it doesn't look good, I'd sell it and try for a second crop. If your second crop doesn't work out, you have the money from your sale to buy good hay.

[Red Ryder]

Bird in hand worth many in the bush.

Keep it and if you get a second cutting great you can then sell the 1st or second.
But with the way hay availability and prices are Don't gamble!!!!!

[Blair]

I do plan on keeping the first and trying for a second if hubby will go for it. So is the second cutting better than a first in general???? Also what is the optimal time for cutting for horses (e.g. when seed heads form, after seeds drop, etc????).

[CarolU]

I would say it depends on what is growing in your field. Around here we have June or Cheat grass that heads out in June. In an ideal situation we'd cut before it heads out. The second crop doesn't have any Cheat in it. If it has headed out it is not good for horses since the cheat heads cause ulcers in their mouths.

Some other grasses and grains have heads you'd like to keep in the hay.

Spring grass has a higher sugar content then late summer grass.

You might ask your local Extension Agent. They usually know the local grasses and hay crops better then anybody.

I agree with Hollis...two crops in the barn are better then one in the field...still.

[motorgypsy]

I'd cut both first and second. You are so close to the area we live in that is having something like a 1000 year drought. Our hay prices have doubled and more and we moved our horses to Fl because we feared we might not be able get hay in SC. It's very pricey in FL but there are also a lot more sources and the drought is not as bad as it is in SC. All three of my hay suppliers ran out really early. I had to go to T/A cubes for my SC horses for a while and they have gone up to $13 a bag. I'd be willing to bet you have people on this board who would buy your hay. SC has a market bulletin where hay producers and all sorts of other ag products are advertised. There used to be all sorts of ads for hay. I just checked and found none for our area. I think they are cutting fescue fairly soon so I hope things are better this year but it's been very scary.

[GNix46]

Normally most folks do not fertilize until after the first cutting. which is a little weedy. The cutting kills most of the weeds out. My first cutting is cow and goat hay while the 2nd or if I am lucky 3rd is horse hay. Normally I fertilize 2 weeks before the first cutting so I have plenty of neutrients in the hay.
George

[pprpaso3]

Up here in NW Pa ( I'm sure we are a lot colder than you are) our hay is still short and looks like it won't be ready till late June or July to cut first crop. That is our usual time to cut first crop.

Last year was exceptionally hot in spring so many farmers cut first crop June 1st and it was very long already. Second crop last year was not good though.....not enough rain so barely grew and the weeds took over.

I have a 5 acre Timothy/grass hay field. We only get first crop.(last year we got 4oo bales) If you plant alfalfa in with the grass you can get 2 or 3 cuttings up here because alfalfa is fast growing. Most of the farmers here plant Timothy/alfalfa in with the oats and the first year and you get oats and oat straw and the following year is the beautiful hay field. Oats have gone way up in price along with all the other grains so if you are planting a new field this is a good way to do it.

I've heard this year farmers are going back to growing hay instead of all the corn they grew last year becasue the corn seed now has skyrocketed and fertilizer so the cost is astronomical to plant corn. It is a good thing for the horse owners....we will have a lot more hay now but I know with the cost of fuel it is going up too. Last year hay here in PA (first crop) was $2.50 a bale. Second crop ranges from .50 to $1.00 more per bale but with only first crop last year and very little second the supply was low.

I have noticed no corn growing in the nearby fields and just lots of hay so I believe what I heard is correct. This is also true in other states (heard the same thing from a man from NC).

Now if we get the right weather in June and July we will have lots of beautiful hay! Many times with years like this one is looking it doesn't stop raining long enough to get the hay cut and dried. You need hot and dry weather with sunshine and a nice breeze really helps and about 4 to 5 days in a row like that is a lot to ask sometimes up here!

So in your case I would definately cut your first crop......at least you will have that to either feed or sell. If you don't get second crop (and it will be a lot less bales than your first crop) you will have something.

[cristy]

All the old time farmers in my area only want first cutting for their horses (I never understood that) I have 3 guys I buy my hay from and I buy first and second cutting. Timothy/alfalfa/clover. Hay grows well in our area so both cuttings are usually nice. (everyone wanna be sick now?? Last year I paid 1.00 a sq bale from one guy and a 1.50 from the other and $18.00 a bale for the 1000lb round bales stored inside.) the weather in the winter sucks but I love WV.:v:

[motorgypsy]

We were always told that first cutting was more nutritious and better for horse hay also. But that doesn't mean it's true:rolleyes:

One problem with first cutting for us is that it's very fine and some horses are more prone to impaction colic from really fine hay - especially minis and we have one paso fino mare who coliced from overeating fine fresh cut hay.

Here nice sized round bales are $65. We used to pay $35. Small squares of tifton 44 are 6.50. We used to pay $3 for equivalent.

[Abejita]

here in South PA ours is ready to be cut
I have actually found first cutting to be less weedy here. We fertilize in early spring to give the grass a jump start.I TRY to get the fields sprayed for broadleaf after the first cut. I had one field I had the farmer roundbale for himself last year because by the time we cut for second, it was full of Clover, chickory and lots of plantain..just a mess..

As far as being more nutritious.. well I test my hay and there usually isnt a large difference..but since many times first isnt cut until after the seed heads are past prime and second is cut before its in full head it can have differences in protein sugars etc. Our first cut usually produces more and heavier bales also. It is a little stemmier so it does last longer for thehorses ( chew time) but they dont leave much if any behind..(unless it was cut really late)

NOW ..that said..even though the next few days are supposed to be really dry..the ground is still pretty damp so if it isnt made right you MIGHT have problems..

[GNix46]

Since I am new to the Paso world, and have a lot of pasture. What is the amount of fertilizer used in the south on pasture land for paso's. Also on non pregnant mares can you feed fescue hay?

[SandyMM]

What is the amount of fertilizer used in the south on pasture land for paso's.I just went with the recommendations of my feed store who also sells and spreads fertilizer, lime, etc. You could probably go a bit on the light side of ther local area recommendations as Pasos should be relatively hardy and too much good grass may be harder to manage than too little. Your county extension agent should be able to perform soil tests to see type and amount of fertilizer/lime you need. Mine recommended that I check into liquid lime that is produced at a plant just 15 miles from us since we only have 4 acres in pasture.With all the pasture you have, cross-fencing into smaller areas for rotational/intensive grazing might be an option. You could easily set aside 10-20 acres for hay to feed /sell...
Also on non pregnant mares can you feed fescue hay?Yes, the only problem is with pregnant mares in the last 3 months or so - and it is a _big_ problem. See my post in the health forum. I nearly lost a mare and her foal last year to fescue toxicosis. I would never have guessed the tiny bit I saw in my pasture would have caused such a severe problem...

[motorgypsy]

We avoid fertilized pastures. The best place we boarded had two pastures with a mix of fescue and coastal. The pastures were rotated all year. It supported four to five horses pretty much the entire year on perhaps six acres because the fescue stays green in the winter and the coastal really grows in the summer. Saved us a Ton of money on hay. Golf course bought it.:(

[GNix46]

Thanks Sandy. According to soil test I can get by with a 13-13-13 or to really pump it up triple 17. With the high cost of fertilizer I am going to triple 13 (660.00 / ton ) on the pastures. County extension has given me no info on Pasos. Does 100 lb. per acre sound all right? This is for grazing only.
The hay fields are getting 200 lb. per acre.
BTW Carmalina is doing great. Took her out for 10 miles the other day. She does not like going by herself, but she will do it. She is now flexing good and no longer plow reins.
George

[SandyMM]

We avoid fertilized pastures.
Our county extension agent told me that not only did we need fertilizer, we need lime for the fertilizer to work best. So - I am planning on lime to conteract the acidic soli we have and which generally doesn't support much but weeds and what the locals call 'prairie grass' and which they also say is a sure indication of acid soil. I have to say that our pasture looks a whole lot better than the it did two years ago before and after they bushogged it for the auction.

I am gradually crossfencing so we can use rotational grazing. It is much easier to look at a 100 x 100 pen that needs mowing and fertilizing than and acre or 3.

George - I will check with my feedstore tomorrow to see what they recommend. With fertilizer prices up so high, they did tell me that some farmers here are backing down to 10-10-10. The price for 13-13-13 for 4 acres wasn't that much different, so I went with it because our pasture was originally so poor, but it has given it a noticeable boost. Can't wait to see what the lime does.

That's great news about Carmelina - hope she continues to give you good rides!

[motorgypsy]

We have to have a lot of lime also unless the area just happens to have underground limestone - which our house does. Amazing what a little pH adjustment can do.

All our hay producers fertilize and lime but for horse pastures our guys just get too fat on fertilized pasture. We boarded at one place with fertilized pastures and had to put them on drylot. Our old mare foundered repeatedly on her previous owners beautiful fertilized pastures. She hasn't foundered in 8 years on the unfertilized pastures we've had her on along with low carb feed. So it depends on what your horses need and if you're going to cut hay.

The best place we boarded who rotated pastures did mow each time he moved the horses so that kept the weeds down. And of course the horse manure fertilized the grass also. If you mow before the weeds go to seed it really helps keep your pastures weed free.

[GNix46]

We call it sage which is an indication of needing lime. I plan on liming again this fall. I normally lime every 5 years at 1 ton per acre. Do you guys have any problems with thistle? Every one around me does but I turn the goats into the area when it first shoots up and I am thistle free.