gaited horse from India with cool ears

[sporthorse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhoDbRMAdNE&feature=related
check related vids for gaiting this one is just dancing to music.
below is gaiting one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWXHaPmR2Ao&feature=related

[ASB.Immortality]

Those are Marwaris. I have loved those horses for years but never realized that any were gaited. There are actually people here in the States that are breeding them now. If I can find their website I will post it. This makes me think they were bred kind of like the ASBs were.

[moonrize]

I just love the Marwaris decked out in their native costumes. I saw them in some magazine years ago and have loved the look ever since.

[CarolU]

Another poor horse. :mecry:

[Soltera]

WHAT:mad2: did they DO :mad2: to that poor horse? :mad2:?

I hate to admit that I've watched a bunch of those "dancing horse" youtubes, and that's about the most "advanced" act I've seen as far as "high school" and other flashy manouvers are concerned.

If you overlook, let's see, the rearing resistance, the WAY too long session (weth what appears to be a fairly young horse - can you say blown hocks?), the horse's obvious distress, shaking hind legs at the end.....

Yes, CarolU, :mecry:

[Jane Hurl]

JeZUZ! That poor, poor horse! Are those people insane? Have they no humanity at all? :mad2::mad2::mad2:

[Mo.D]

OMG that poor horse :mecry:!!!!! That poor poor baby :mecry:!!!!! Your friend,Mo

[ruuhzoo]

There are more humane ways to train a horse to do such maneuvers. I heartily support that anyone who is going to use any out of the norm training method to have to use it on themselves first. Of course, these people have been doing this for ages and think they are doing it the right way. Being third world, they don't know any better. I have also seen Paso Finos react the same way to certain training methods that are used on them also. I'm just better off not to look at these things. :mad2:

[Jane Hurl]

[QUOTE]I'm just better off not to look at these things.[QUOTE]

Not so. You NEED to look at these things so you can speak out against them. With the force of your voice and mine and everyone else's who cares, people will learn that their methods, while they may be traditional, are not humane. Will that person in the video learn it directly from you or me? Of course not, but we can be the start of a ground swell of dissent.

[ASB.Immortality]

Don't really mean to be a party pooper on this subject but there is a difference in speaking out about the practices done by us North Americans and the ones you are trying speak against across seas. India's cultures are vastly different from ours. What many here may see as inhumane (and I am not saying that it is not inhumane) maybe considered something else over there.

[Jane Hurl]

True. But their perspective is not going to change unless they see and hear differently ... and cultures DO change. Ours has. The brutalities that were accepted as normal horse training tactics across western Canada are (thankfully) dying out. No reason that can't happen elsewhere.

[Jane Hurl]

PS ... I don't think you're being a party pooper. *grin*

[ASB.Immortality]

I hoped not. ;)

As for that breed, it is a dying breed and the practices that are associated with it are dying also. I really hate to see that breed diminshing. It has been in decline for years now and right now, it is very close to being gone. The practices I could do without in some cases but the history behind this breed is very rich. I just wish it wasn't so close to being gone.

[Cindy]

Well, the rest of the world has not seemed to "rub off" on the Middle Eastern countries as far as how humans treat one another so I doubt that we are anywhere close to influencing how animals are treated. I agree with ASB entirely. Wish it was not so but have not lived in those shoes either and will not cast stones on a culture that I could not possibly even fathom.

[Jane Hurl]

Thank you for that slap upside the head, Cindy. I'm sure I needed it.

[Soltera]

I'm going to assume (since their garb was Western I have to assume) that they were Hindus.

Did Shiva mandate horse torture? Does Brahman require it? Is it a trick of Hanuman? Does not Krishna weep over the animals of his "creation"? Perhaps a certain caste is obligated practice equine torture?

How can cruelty be a cultural norm? There is no cruel culture, merely cruel individuals. Rodeo is part of the culture of the American West, and is still cruel in some aspects (calf roping), but I'd sure hate for a Hindu to say, "Look at that! They just broke that poor thing's neck roping it 10 times in one afternoon. Well, the American culture must a cruel one, but who are we to judge?" Waaaay too broad a brush.

No, what was done on that video is just plain wrong, and any humane human would agree, regarless of culture.

JMHO

Edited to add: all I'm saying is we don't have to understand a culture to call torture what it is. Yes, I've studied Hinduism at the graduate level, and see no justification for the contents of that video!

[Cindy]

How can cruelty be a cultural norm? There is no cruel culture, merely cruel individuals

Not sure that history agrees with you there.

[CarolU]

No, what was done on that video is just plain wrong, and any humane human would agree, regarless of culture.

JMHO

Edited to add: all I'm saying is we don't have to understand a culture to call torture what it is. Yes, I've studied Hinduism at the graduate level, and see no justification for the contents of that video!

Agree totally. What is being done to that horse is just as cruel and inhumane as it would be here...and it's not too different then what some here do, tieing horses in with harsh bits and headgear and forcing them into it to "gait."

They also sell little girls for slaves there. They burn brides. Is this all OK because it is their culture?

[motorgypsy]

There are definitely documented "cruel cultures". Take a course in Cultural Anthropology and you'll get study all about them. But a location and a religion does not make a cruel culture. The Nazis would certainly qualify as a "cruel culture" but Germany during the Nazi regime was not a cruel culture. It was a culture that tolerated or ignored or were powerless to fight cruelty from a small but powerful part of the country. There are "cruel subcultures" in this country and in all countries of any size but if you've lived in and worked in other countries you know all of them have the full range of personality types from the nastiest to the nicest. What matters is what types are in charge of the power structure of the country. And yes I do believe it is very important to prevent the cruel sub cultures from gaining that power as the Taliban did. And many of us remember that the US is famous for supporting the wrong side in foreign country internal politics.

Fidel Castro - we supported him

The Taliban - we supported them

Muslim extremists in Iraq who are aligned with Iran - we supported them

And we also supported Sadaam Hussein in Iraq against Iran - which actually might have been a good thing.

So we don't always get it wrong but we have made some colossal blunders.

So unless you have lived in the Middle East I sure wouldn't pass judgment on them as a group. The media reports what makes money which generally is not the "whole truth".

A good friend from long long ago when I was a child, who was from Iraq, loved and took wonderful care of his horses. The mares actually slept in the tents with the family. I don't know if his wife slept in the tent or not?;) That's a joke. They had a lovely farm back when Bagdad was a beautiful and civilized city.

I would definitely like to see this wonderful breed flourish. We're pretty quick to judge from one video when we don't really know how the horses are trained - at least I don't??? I have Indian friends. I'll have to ask about them. The horses look very healthy.

[Cindy]

OK, so, in this video that we are sooo condemning, this video that comes from a region of the world that is, in general, used to seeing atrocities against humanity that we in this part of the world cannot even imagine. We are looking at this video of a horse that is on two lines and there is a person walking behind the horse and guiding the horse as if he were driving the horse or teaching the horse to drive. And he is just walking from what I can see and steering the horse from behind. And there are some obnoxious drummer people on both sides of the horse making a noise that would most surely bother me and I am not a horse much less a young horse. And the handler is just guiding the horse. I never at saw him whip the horse or anything of that nature. Did I mis something? And the horse seems to me to be afraid of all that is going on around him. But the horse is not reprimanded for being afraid. He throws off some pretty scary rears in the process which make me think that he could have had some more ground training before all the noise was introduced. But he was not at all reprimanded for the rearing (like he would have been by many people in this country). Instead the handler just guides him back down and continues on with his slow walking behind the horse. Now, as I look at this process, I certainly see that were I to be training this horse I would most likely do some things differently for sure. But at no point in this video did I ever see the horse struck. Nor did I see the horse pushed in any way other than the obnoxious music being played all around him. My assumption is that this is how they get the horse used to such goings on. This is not how I would go about the training process. But I hardly see how it warrants the malicious comments that have been made about it. There are many things that are done in this country to bore the horse to tears that I would not subject a horse to either. We don't know anything about the history of this horse or at what stage the horse is in it's training. For all we know, this horse could be a rogue killer who is being rehabbed in order to save his life and make him safe to be around people. Likely, no. But I don't know and none of you know the circumstances of this horse either. So before you cast the stones, you might want to gather more information. It is very easy to sit on our high horses and condemn everyone else. But that does not really do anyone any good. This is why. If it is indeed torture, you are not going to change the minds of a people by calling them torturers. But you can learn what they have to teach and then show them that there is a better way. Or we can all be the ugly Americans of folklore condemning everything that is not done our way. Whatever. You choose. I don't care.

[CarolU]

To each their own. I see a lot of abuse where you see none. Nothing new here.

[GregM]

There a lot of things I DON"T see.
Dressage whips, lunge whips, any kind of whip. Spurs that draw blood. Chains, nails in shoe pads, mustard oil. Barb wire bits, bicycle chain hacks, steel balls in a nose band. Broken tails. Needles. Scars. Blood.

[motorgypsy]

Cindy I think the rears are part of the "dance". There are several cultures that teach the horse to rear and to walk on the hind legs - particularly the stallions - and there was an endurance ride in one of these parts of some Asian or middle Eastern country. The Western vets were astonished to say the least when the horses approached the vets to be vetted in and approached with their handler walking on their hind legs. It took quite a bit of translation to explain that while the vets were very impressed, that this was not necessary.

Carol I know that you know that there are very many people who think that riding a horse is extremely cruel. That using a horse for anything remotely resembling work for a human is extremely cruel. I also know you've probably watched the Gypsy dance with J.P Morales and Cheri Prill and his paso fino stallion, El Chino de Batey. I suspect there are people who think that this is cruel also.

I also didn't see any scars on the horse, didn't see blood coming from the mouth, didn't see panic either. I didn't see the handler yanking on the horse's mouth either and I watched twice. I've seen so much worse so many times. I can't stand to watch the highest levels of dressage these days with horse being spurred with every stride and the head bent far beyond what is normal. We're all awfully good at judging things we know nothing about.

[Cindy]

To each their own. I see a lot of abuse where you see none. Nothing new here.


Oh Please. Yes, you are correct. Nothing new here. Carol on her high horse. Missing the point entirely. Point is, Carol, that I have seen a lot worse right here in this country called training. And from every different discipline. And from people who are supposed to be professionals.

Nancy, the rears at the end were trained. The rears in the begining were the horse resisting.

[kteufel]

Cruelty is not always a matter of physical beatings and blood. Cruelty in the training process can be a failure to teach, or a failure to consider the horse's point of view, when making your demands.

I don't get that Carol or anyone else is trying to argue that it's wrong to teach a horse to "dance" to music. The objection is clearly that the horse showed signs of confusion and resistance that indicated that it was being pushed beyond it's understanding. In addition, it was a LONG video and the indication was that the horse had to perform the "dancing" repeatedly, ad nauseam. Long past the point where optimal learning could take place.

When I see someone rush and push an animal in the training processes, to the point where the animal is showing extreme stress and/or confusion, however "kindly", I don't think, "Oh, well, at least they didn't beat it with whips." It's more subtle than that, and I think most of you KNOW that. You're not idiots.

To a great extent, I think what is more important to an animal than the amount of physical pain experienced during the training process, is whether the training process MAKES SENSE. The COHERENCY of the demands, the corrections, the rewards, the expectations. You can be the type of trainer who employs relatively "harsh" corrections to reinforce cues, but if you taught first and employ the corrections consistently and fairly, the animal can adapt because they know how to control what happens to them. Sometimes discomfort is required to break a bad habit--that's fine, almost certainly it's no more or less uncomfortable than the "corrections" dished out by their fellow packmates or herdmates, corrections that are a function of RELATIONSHIPS.

When I look at the video, besides the obvious question of whether they are physically exhausting the horse by having him perform such "collected" maneuvers over and over, what I question is the horse's understanding of the process and the demands.

[GregM]

I don't get the impression it's a "long" session, it's 8 minutes of video from a 24 minute span according to the clock, and they are working on a few different moves. He seems to "get" some of it. I just don't think we've seen enough to really know.

Also, nice to know I'm not an "idiot."

[Cindy]

Kali, I agree with all of that. As I stated before, this is not how I would like to see a horse trained. However, I do not have enough information to condemn this person. The video is 8 minutes and fourteen seconds. It is stopped and restarted about 5 or 6 times. We have no idea the time frame between stops and starts. We also have no idea the history of this horse or of his training process. Would you say the same thing if you had never seen a fino horse performing the gait that is natural to them? If you had never had any exposure to a fino horse before and you saw a 15 minute video of a horse performing that highly collected form of the gait, feet going 90 miles an hour, horse going nowhere, would you say the same thing? You might. And you would be wrong. Another point missed.

[JennLM]

I'm unsure what methods they used on that particular horse. But, if you look at the other videos posted by the same person you will see some races. In one clip they are beating the horse in the face and everywhere else to get it to line up and run.. :confused:

I also agree many methods here in the U.S. are still cruel....

[Linda Y]

Not to change the subject, but did anyone go look at this clip that was on the same page? I don't know if that is a Peruvian horse, or what the heck they are doing, but look at those front legs. And they thought Americans were breeding that into them...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhhRv35dPjU&feature=related

[CarolU]

I agree Kali.

The problem isn't teaching the horse to dance. I consider dancing with my horses an advanced step in their training.

The problem is pulling the horse so tight in the bit and then driving him forward onto it, with no release when it is doing what is wanted. Yes, it is a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG video. I can't imagine the pain this horse went through to make it...and like you pointed out, all the other times it is forced to "dance."

I don't expect other people to care about a relationship with their horse. I don't think that is everyone's goal. But every horse should be treated humanely and with respect for their feelings (including pain) and dignity.

[Soltera]

Cindy wrote:

Soltera's Quote:
How can cruelty be a cultural norm? There is no cruel culture, merely cruel individuals

Not sure that history agrees with you there.


MGs later listed quite a few cruel times in a variety of cultures, Cindy, but I still don't think a "people" can be cruel, any more than a "people" can ALL be beautiful or introspective or clumsy.

kteufel - excellent post. Lots of grist for the mill, and many important points!

[Cindy]

A culture is what it has been taught and what it collectively accepts to be reality. I will disagree with you here as from my perspective groups of people (from high school clicks to the Mayans who sacrificed slaves to the sun God to the KKK to the armies of Burma for example) in history have been much more cruel than any one individual has ever though of being. Quite the contrary, from my experience and what I have learned in this life, it is far less likely for individuals to have the courage to be as cruel as humans are when they group up. Like a pack of dogs, packs of people tend to loose any sense of conscience and are bolstered by the fact that others think like them.

[Soltera]

(from high school clicks to the Mayans who sacrificed slaves to the sun God to the KKK to the armies of Burma for example)

Ah, as I thought, we're just splitting hairs over the word “culture”.

The behavior of a clique in an American high school is not American behavior, the dastardly KKK’ actions are not what all Americans do after hours, and Armies are su-b-cultures. I don't know squat about Mayans.:D

It’s just quibbling over a word, Cindy. I use “culture” to mean the whole shebang, you are referring to “human culture”, perhaps. Anyway, an empty thing to argue over IMHO.

You might even say that the rodeo clique is a sub-culture, but I've known quite a few rodeo devotees and none who would over-rope their stock or not use horn and ear protection.

The people in all cultures who whip their horses up to make them "squirm with exhausted incomprehension" (I won’t call it dancing) are doubtless subcultures of their societies. “Lord of the Flies” all over again....sad....

[Cindy]

First of all, not argueing and I don't think that you are either. If we dont agree then we don't agree. I neither need nor want everyone to agree with me. How freaking boring would that be. But by your definition of culture, would not the earth be a culture and everything else a sub-culture? I mean, who decides where the cut-off point is to differenciate between culture and sub? And it may have been Aztecs and not Mayans. Can't remember my history that well and I am TERRIBLE with names anyway. LOL Point is, a people or a culture is a group and I will contend until death that a group will be every day more harmful and cruel than an individual. We are pack animals and we just do not have it in us without the pack behind us. Not to the extent that the pack does.

[SandyMM]

The people in all cultures who whip their horses up to make them "squirm with exhausted incomprehension"
What?

[CarolU]

I don't know Cindy. I think many individuals are very cruel. I remember boys who torched cats, tied two cats' tails together and threw them over a clothes line to watch them fight, lit cats on fire, blew up frogs. Judi and I saw a cat (or small dog) that had been incinerated then frozen into a stance and displayed on the side of the highway. A friend rescued a kitten that someone had gouged out its eyes. This list could go on forever.

There are many cruel individuals that have nothing to do with the culture of their country, state, county, their high school...nothing. They're just sick, twisted people.

[Cindy]

I don't know Cindy. I think many individuals are very cruel. I remember boys who torched cats, tied two cats' tails together and threw them over a clothes line to watch them fight, lit cats on fire, blew up frogs. Judi and I saw a cat (or small dog) that had been incinerated then frozen into a stance and displayed on the side of the highway. A friend rescued a kitten that someone had gouged out its eyes. This list could go on forever.

There are many cruel individuals that have nothing to do with the culture of their country, state, county, their high school...nothing. They're just sick, twisted people.

Well of course there are. But I do not think that you can compare the atrocities in Myanmar to torturing a cat. Let's see, genocide.......caticide? You decide. :rolleyes: Very few individuals have wiped out entire villages. Torched children in front of their mothers. Hanged the men, disembowled them and left them there as a reminder to the rest of the villages of what will happen to them. Yes, of course we have the Jeffrey Dahmers of the world. But really, what he did to those boys CANNOT COMPARE to the atrocities, the fear, the intimidation or the cruelness of the KKK. Sorry, you will NOT change my mind. I would much rather deal with Adolf Hilter in a room alone than his army in a public place. I would stand a much better chance. Assuming of course that Adolf Hilter OR his army had anything against me.

[Soltera]

What?

Oh, I've just seen "dancing horse" youtubes from Central/South Americas, Inndia, Saudi Arabia and the USA, and they are all kind of the same sort of "torment as art" deals. It seems ubiquitous to all horse owning cultures.

Dang. There's that word again. :biggrin:

[SandyMM]

In my never humble opinion.... ;), it occurs to me that it would have been just fine to show the video and let intelligent people decide for themselves whether or not it was interesting or whatever instead of beating everybody over the head with a vague and all-encompassing personal vision of cruelty. I myself am quite capable of deciding whether or not something is cruel based on my values and experiences - and if you (generic) don't agree - you're entitled to that opinion... but don't expect me to think you're right because you say so.... :rolleyes:

Why not spend all the time spent complaining about perceived cruelties by doing something useful.... Like writing a letter to a celebrity bleeding heart who campaigned for closing the slaughterhouses and asking them to adopt a couple of hundred starving horses...

[CarolU]

You know Sandy, I'd consider it cruel, even if they were doing it to you instead of a horse. But, that's just me.

[motorgypsy]

Linda it's for sure that horse is hyperflexy but according to my vet this conformation actually produces outstanding flat track speed and smooth gait. It also produces a horse, who like a hyperflexy human, is prone to "sprains" and "strains". This type of horse does not necessarily and probbably don't have DSLD. We own one of these horses and she is exceptionally fast and smooth and sure enough, she was injured when spooked on a slippery surface. She is fine and sound and ridable although the injury has left her lower in rear angle on one leg than we would prefer. We were told that we should avoid any sharp turns with her at high speed and we have. She's quite amazing. Her son did not inherit this although she has both long pasterns and is flexy. He has long pasterns but has correct angles. Her mother and siblings do not have the flexy suspensories and her father doesn't seem to either. Son't know where it came from but she's sound at 15. Another thing - this type of hyperflexy individual does not seem to get arthritis. We'll see. Arthritis is indeed a crippler so IF one is careful with a hyperflexy horse it may have a much longer sound life.

Being an infojunkie you guys know I had to look up and study today's definition of "a culture". So here goes.

Culture, here understood as - the totality of what a group of people think, how they behave, and what they produce that is passed on to future generations, is what binds us together as human beings but also separates us into our different communities. In today's world, understanding both our similarities and our diversity becomes increasingly important. Through an understanding and appreciation of cultural difference, children will be better prepared to live in an ever-shrinking global community. And increasingly, our classrooms are becoming miniature models of the global community itself.



The problem with defining culture as shared values and beliefs, as some anthropologists do, is that there can be a vast difference between what people think they ought to do (value) and what they actually do (behavior). Moreover, we get much of our evidence for what people do from what people make - that is, from material things (what archaeologists study). So we really need to include all three components in a definition of culture.
http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/ciai/socst/grade3/whatisa.html

So people who share beliefs, values and behavior would then be considered "a culture".

So cultures can be made of very few members or larger groups but you can see that there will be some cultural differences in larger groups. If you read the article they mentioned the wearing of white at weddings in the US and red in China.

The cruel culture I remember studying existed in Indonesia many years ago and I do remember one group of Apache whose behavior toward those of other cultures was definitely cruel (captured, ears and nose burned off with hot coals, and there's a lot worse). So while we have to define "a culture" to be able to communicate with each other we find that our definition of "cruel" is also culturally biased. And since we live in a country which is inhabited by many different cultures it's obvious that we'll differ even in our definition of cruelty to animals or humans for that matter - but only on fine points. When it comes to things like human sacrifice most of us in the US would definitely be horrified by it. When it comes to dismembering a live cat again most of us would be horrified. We also tend to be very blind to cruelty in behaviors that we've experienced as normal our entire lives. Separate drinking fountains, restrooms, no service in restaurants for those with any known African blood in the US south for example. Similar prejudice against women, Hispanics, and even people of shorter shorter stature exist or did exist extensively in this country. Those who grew up in cultures that accepted these behaviors as "normal" frequently did not question them until someone from outside that cultural group pointed out that the behavior was cruel. At this point thinking individuals in that culture examined the questioned behavior, rejected it and change began.

So while many of us have no problem with teaching a horse to take little teeny steps and go nowhere some of us will call cruel the teaching of a horse to do a varied routine of rearing, stepping with the head down, stepping with the head up and so on when we don't know how the horse was taught and if it even comes close to being what most of us would call "cruel". There are many many things that we all agree ARE cruel. While learning about practices in different cultures is very beneficial, we really need more than one short video to condemn. I'd rather withhold judgment until I have a lot more information and concentrate on helping rectify practices that we ALL KNOW are cruel like soring, inflicting pain to stop the horse from reacting to testing for soreness at shows, and so on.

Very interesting article by the way by an American who is not of Chinese descent but is an expert on Chinese cultures and speaks Chinese.

[SandyMM]

Nothing stated on this thread changes my opinion about the things I consider cruel.

[Cindy]

So while we have to define "a culture" to be able to communicate with each other we find that our definition of "cruel" is also culturally biased.

My original point missed. Thanks.:v:

[motorgypsy]

Most of you guys are probably too young to remember when women had to wear high heels to work, skirts to class when outdoor travel in below zero weather was required, weren't allowed to participate in certain sports or study certain careers simply because of being female. At the time many in our society did not consider any of this cruel. Yet today these restrictions are considered horrible. I came across a newspaper the other day from 1957 and read the want ads. No Women wanted, no African Americans wanted and earlier, no Irish wanted. It's right there in print. Check your newspaper archives. Yes we have ideas about what we think are cruel but too often we don't realize that we accept behaviors that don't correspond to those ideas. That we tolerate cruel behaviors and don't even see them as cruel.

And Carol you can't really be serious - since when would you tolerate "riding a human" and yet we ride our horses. I think of a horse tolerating being ridden or pulling a cart etc. as being no different from a human who digs ditches in 100 degree weather for overtime or who lays bricks or who works for someone who is a very nasty person for pay - the horse can indeed protest and stop us from riding them and refuse to pull a cart. If the horse decides it doesn't want to do something there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Our tiny 13 2 mare refused to load in a trailer for her former owner. Six adult men tried to get her to load. They did NOT succeed. Horses should be paid just as humans are paid for doing work that is not always wonderfully pleasant. But they should not have to tolerate something that injures them physically or psychologically. And very many don't. If you've owned one who has "said NO" you know it takes quite a while to convince them that it's worth their while to say "Yes" again. We give our horses protection, food, care for their injuries and illnesses, companionship and respect in return for their cooperation in carrying us on their backs and pulling a load. As long as both parties think it's a fair deal we get along great. When one of them doesn't, things don't go well.

Studying other cultures and comparing what they think is cruel to what we accept as not cruel is really interesting because as the article I quoted from points out - it's not our ideas that are so important, it's our behaviors and what we produce that show what we really believe.

Interesting stuff - cultural comparisons:biggrin:

[CarolU]

Nancy, I'm the one who said it WOULD be cruel if done to a human. They aren't riding this horse...they have its jaw pulled into its chest with a metal bit with no release - which I think most humans would consider cruel if done to them.

[SandyMM]

Like I said..... if you feel so strongly about something, go do something constructive instead of beating the proverbial dead horse... I did - just got back from 25 minutes working the buckskin colt - is that 1 minute longer than the dancing horse tape? I have probably scarred him mentally, physically, and emotionally for the rest of his life.... :mecry:Sheeesh.... :rolleyes:

[Mellifluous]

You guys just think you know cruelty when you see it. My Jack Russell can show you cruelty, in fact it has been documented with the digital camera.

Earlier today she had worked very hard to do battle with a large kingsnake (Kev was too late to save it). She had all of the badges of honor, blood splatters all over. We cruel, cruel humans brought her in the house and washed all of her bragging rights right down the drain. If she could talk, she would have told you just how cruel it was to do that to her. Since she can't tell you, I will show you the picture of the atrocity that was committed this very afternoon.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/legado/jackie_pitiful.jpg

[SandyMM]

How can you sleep at night with that on your conscience???????? ;)

[Mellifluous]

How can you sleep at night with that on your conscience???????? ;)

It is horrible things like this that keep me awake and force me to look at meaningless graphs to take my mind off my crimes against my very brave little dog. I have given her countless baths, it is very shameful for me.

[CarolU]

Like I said..... if you feel so strongly about something, go do something constructive instead of beating the proverbial dead horse... I did - just got back from 25 minutes working the buckskin colt - is that 1 minute longer than the dancing horse tape? I have probably scarred him mentally, physically, and emotionally for the rest of his life.... :mecry:Sheeesh.... :rolleyes:

Don't give me any SHYT Sandy. I have four rescues here that I take care of, feed, work, train, and save. I do NOT breed more horses while thousands are being abandoned to starve across this country right now.

If you think it's so fine, go ahead and have Greg put a butter knife through your mouth and force your jaw to your chest and push you around for 10 minutes. After this, come back and tell me you think it's a fine and wonderful thing to do.

:mecry: Sheesh....this is the only group of "horsemen" I've ever seen who defend horse abuse.

.....makes you think this breed is going extinct because they want to.

[GregM]

Gee, when was the sale on 12-step mounting blocks?

Obviously, working a horse with a bit in long lines for (gasp!) TWENTY-FOUR minutes is so much more cruel than murdering a cow, surely all of you who see this are vegetarians? Because, after all,

You're not idiots.

[SandyMM]

:mecry: Sheesh....this is the only group of "horsemen" I've ever seen who defend horse abuse.
Maybe we're the only group who can form our own opinions...

[motorgypsy]

While we're discussing cruelty to animals we might think about the lovely practice done to young women in certain countries to keep them "pure". Somehow I don't think it's done to the mouth with a butter knife. Let's get some perspective here. Those girls have no choice either.

[ASB.Immortality]

Ummm... I won't put any links on here but we all know that there are human ponies right? ;)

[JennLM]

Ummm... I won't put any links on here but we all know that there are human ponies right? ;)

Bahahahah! I didn't realize it was so well known ;) Ahhh back in my youth there were.. uhh well.. *shifts back into PG-13 mode* (no, not me but I've seen it)

[SandyMM]

Don't give me any SHYT Sandy. I have four rescues here that I take care of, feed, work, train, and save. I do NOT breed more horses while thousands are being abandoned to starve across this country right now.

If you think it's so fine, go ahead and have Greg put a butter knife through your mouth and force your jaw to your chest and push you around for 10 minutes. After this, come back and tell me you think it's a fine and wonderful thing to do.
Y'know - that was so rude that I let it ride, got a good night's sleep, thought about it for about a second this morning and had to laugh that you think think _every_ 'you' refers to you....

[CarolU]

Y'know - that was so rude that I let it ride, got a good night's sleep, thought about it for about a second this morning and had to laugh that you think think _every_ 'you' refers to you....

I see you took your 'snarky' pill all ready this morning. Must be rough being you.

[SandyMM]

Must be rough being you.
LOL - I have a great husband, great family, great friends, great little farm, great horses - if my health was better, my life would be perfect.

[Cindy]

Mel, all is well, eh? My poor little puppy is looking just as undignified as yours this afternoon. Poor thing not only had a shower, he actually went to the groomer and got all of his hippy hair cut off. He has gone from the cool long haired hippy puppy to something resembling a drowned rat. I feel so bad for him that I will not suffer him the indignity of taking his picture. God knows I am abusive enough to the animals whose videos are posted from the other side of the world.:rolleyes:

[SandyMM]

A new photo contest opportunity - indignant, clean dogs! I like it!