Belmont

[SandyMM]

Good luck, Big Brown! They're on the track.... here's hoping the Triple Crown drought is over...

[SandyMM]

Several bumps in the beginning.... I wonder if his shoestring came off....

[pnalley]

He walked out fine, I think his hoof is OK. I bet he bled though. He was too much "not the same horse".

A few good things. The track vet stated they are recommending steriods be made illegal (currently they are legal in 38 states for horses).

One of the jockeys stated he wanted to see the majority of drugs and pain blocks "not allowed". He wants to know if the horse has pain. He stated if tehy feel the pain they are not as likely to continue on and hurt themselves.

ONe of the trainers (Zito I think) stated no whips needed. A good horse will win with out.

PS, The jockey was spot on in pulling him up. No need to take chances.

Too bad, I think we needed a TC winner.

[SandyMM]

No obvious external injuries.... I thought his right front looked slightly 'off'... That's the side he and the #2 horse collided on coming out of the gate. The jockey made the right call pulling him up when he knew the horse was off...

[Cindy]

I thought the jockey made a big mistake in fighting with him to keep him back and get to the outside at the begining of the race. When he did that I was worried. After that the horse did not seem to want to run much any more. Not that that necessarily had anything to do with it, just an observation. He may very well be bothered by the hoof cracks and not show a lot of lamenes. OR it could be that he did not get his usual dose of steroids last month. The trainer has been very public about the fact that he gives the horse a shot of anabolics on the 15 of every month. He stated that he did not give him last month's shot in order to prove that he was still as good without it. Perhaps he is not. Especially in that heat. I would imagine the steroids would have negated the heat factors. But when one is used to having them and then does not, that heat may have made the diference. Either way, the horse was not right. Glad the jockey did the right thing. How many think that he will race again and how many think that he is off to the breeding shed?

[pnalley]

I guess it depends on how he comes out of the race. If there is no hidden fractures or bows and they can get him sound for the breeders cup, I bet he'll be there to redeem himself.

If he did bleed they will
drop him in a stakes race were he can have lasix.

In any case it was very disappointing. I believe he was the most promising possibility to be a TC winner.

It just goes to show how difficult it really is. Very few horses are good enough, and of the ones that are good enough very few stay sound.

BTW, the one announcer that stated there has never been a retired horse that was unbeaten was wrong. Personal Ensign ran 13 times with 13 wins. Top quality horses, stakes races.

It is sad that if he goes to the breeding shed he will most likely pass on those bad hooves. Boundary's (Big Browns sire) trainer stated Boundary's hooves were worse then Big Browns, so the problem was most likely hereditary. I guess it's darn near impossible to have a horse that is the "real deal". Soundness over time, bred for distance, and with the right conformation and mind to stay sound. Then you have to put that "right horse" with the trainer & riders that can help him to his full potential.

At least all the horses walked of the track with no obvious break downs. That is certainly something to be thankful for.

[SandyMM]

I thought the jockey made a big mistake in fighting with him to keep him back and get to the outside at the begining of the race. When he did that I was worried.
That's what Greg and I were talking about. After he swung right on the break, he just about ran over the the horse on the rail... I have seen any number of horses at the track that get boxed at or shortly after the start and don't run the race they're capable of if the jock has to fight early on to keep them on plan...

Interesting comment by the trainer that it wasn't the horse's fault and he saw no obvious injuries or lameness... I was surprised to see the horse so rank almost right out of the gate and disappointing to see him apparently give up after being held back a couple of times....

Hopefully - more info by tomorrow...

[SandyMM]

The jockey made a comment in the press conference about how awesome the previous horses who _had_ won the Triple Crown must have been to actually complete and win all three races... Classy comment.

[Cindy]

I think the jockey had a game plan coming into the race and he wanted the horse to be in a certain position. The same position that he had been in in previous races. Problem is, he did not break from the inside in previous races AND he did not break in front in previous races. He broke about neck and neck with the horse that eventually won and had he just let the horse go and stayed on the rail, it may have been a different race. But he stuck to his game plan. May not have mattered. May have. We will never know and that is the thrill of horse racing.

But the triple crown is most certainly an uphill climb. To have to race in that long a race after performing the other two races that close behind. Any horse who can accomplish that derserves the title for sure. I cannot even imagine preparing a horse for that.

As far as racing again? I personally do not believe he will. I think that his hoof problems are bothering him. And it will take at least 6 months to get him completely over those problems if not more. No, I think the money goes to the breeding shed at this point. And we can only hope that he will be bred to some strong hooved mares.;)

[pnalley]

They did state that *if* he won the TC his stud fee would be about $300,000 and they were looking at a possible 100 mares to be booked.

So even as *just* a Derby & Preakness winner his stud fee will still be HUGE, as will the mares booked to him.

With the money involved, if he were mine he'd be tested for fertility, and if he was good to go I would send him to breed. If he had issues, I might rethink the retirement.

[SandyMM]

I also liked the winning trainer's comment... "Ya gotta be in it to win it"

[Cindy]

Yeah. And I am not sure that they were here. :anpony:

[SandyMM]

With the money involved, if he were mine he'd be tested for fertility,
I wonder how much effect the steroids he was on would affect fertility - short and long term... I forget how many states allow the steroids - not all, I know...

I wonder if it was the trainer's ego that made him dump that last steroid shot or something else?

[Cindy]

I'm thinking something else. I don't know how steroids affect hoof soundness but I am now wondering. I cannot see them discontinuing the sterioids just to prove a point.

[motorgypsy]

It was sad but I thought the same thing when I saw him pulled back at the beginning and then when he asked him to move and he didn't - I knew it was over. He seems like really nice boy. Sweet and smart. You really have to wonder about the steroids though. They have so many side effects. I can see using them when needed -but they really need to be minimized to the point where they're only used for medical necessity such a strengthening after an injury. And if they do use anabolics they really make you a lot stronger and in a horse whose bone growth isn't finished I can see how they can have catastrophic fractures.

[pnalley]

This is a quote from Rick Dutrow Jr:


“I don’t really know how I feel," trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. said. "We did really good with him. It was a very disappointing race, but the horse looks like he’s fine. At right now, I can say, it looks like he’ll live a good life if he never races again. He didn’t get the Triple Crown, but we got the Derby and the Preakness and that was great.
"Right now, we’re trying to figure out what happened in the race. Everyone who was a Big Brown fan, I’m sure, was disappointed, just like I am. But, we’re going to check him out and see if he is OK. If we’re sure he is 100% getting back into training, we’ll go forward with him. If not, I’m sure we’ll just do the next thing, which is to retire him.
“He’s in good shape; he’s OK. We’re very, very proud of him. Something has to not be right for him to be pulled up in a race, so I have to try to find out what it is. I’m sure it’s not the horse’s fault, so there’s nothing to be down on him.”

[PattiB]

After being on steroids, hopefully he will not be sterile! Since he ran on steroids for the first two, I think I would have left him on them. When your winning why would you make a change that could affect the race! I hope they do make them illegal, let them run without performance enhancing drugs, then we will see how good they really are. My sister worked at a race track for nine years and her comment before the turn was he isn't going to win I bet he bled. He just wasn't right, there were no afterburners kicking in like the last two races. I was hoping for a TC winner but at least no one broke down!

[GregM]

Quoted from ntra.com, he's been "off" steriods since before the derby. It's also not a bulk-building program like in body builders or football/baseball players. I have also seen one report he was on lasix.

"Dr. Larry Bramlage, the on-call veterinarian for the American Association of Equine Practitioners, said Big Brown "looked fine" after the race.

"His feet looked okay," Bramlage said. "He was not lame."

Big Brown had a quarter crack in his left front foot patched on Friday morning by Ian McKinlay, a noted foot specialist. Dutrow, while walking over with Big Brown before the race, said the foot was "a non-issue."

Big Brown also has legally been injected with steroids in the past, but, according to Dutrow, he had not had his monthly dose since mid-April, before the Triple Crown began.

Bramlage doubted that Big Brown was affected by not using steroids.

"It's not that kind of situation," Bramlage said. "Anabolic steroids keep them eating and happy and aggressive, which he showed all week long."

[macadoo]

Does anybody know exactly how many months old he is??? I think the age these horses are run is a disgrace.....

[Privatetreaty]

I'm going to let you in on a little secret.
Insiders know Big Brown was destine to lose.


It's all in the math:

In the Kentucky Derby, Big Brown went off at 2-1 and paid $6.80 to win.
In the Preakness, Big Brown went off at 5-1 and paid $2.40 to win.
The odds were even worse in the Belmont, as Big Brown went off at 3-10.



Now, let's look at the flip side:
The Belmont winner collected $600,000.


Da' Tara went off at 38-1 and paid $79.00 to win ($38 x 2 plus your $2 bet back).
A $10,000 wager on Da' Tara paid $405,000 ($79 x $10,000 divided by 2, plus your $10,000 back).
Now, imagine 10 people wagering $10,000= $4,050,000.
You'd make 675% more than winning the race.



This is not the first time it's happened, nor the last:
2004: Remember Smarty Jones? He won the Derby and the Preakness and lost the Belmont to Birdstone (36-1), who paid $74.00.
2002: War Emblem won the first two legs and lost the third to Sarava (70-1), who paid $142.50.
1999: It happened again with Charismatic, who lost the Belmont to Lemon Drop Kid (odds not found), paid $61.50.
And the list goes on and on.



Big Brown's breeding career was seals a long time ago.
His sire Boundary was retired from stud service 3 years ago.
Boundary is impotent and Spendthrift has no desire to take him out of retirement.
It is projected that Big Brown will fill those shoes nicely and insiders don't care if he didn't win the Triple Crowns.



Big Brown is scheduled to go into stud in 2009 with a very lucrative $50 million deal.
His odds will improve in the Travers, where he will attempt to pick-up $1,000,000 and
the Breeder's Club (an estimated $5 million purse), later this year.
He already has commercial endorsements, like a human athletes and is insured at $50 million.

Trust me, winning the Belmont was not on Big Brown's agenda.

[Heidi]

Da' Tara went off at 38-1 and paid $79.00 to win ($38 x 2 plus your $2 bet back).
A $10,000 wager on Da' Tara paid $390,000 ($79 x $10,000 divided by 2).
Now, imagine 10 people wagering $10,000= $3,900,000.
You'd make 650% more than winning the race.
I am sorry, I really cannot beleive it is as simple as you imply.
Of COURSE the Derby/Preakness winners are going to have lower odds, they have proven they could win the first two races of the Triple Crown journey. Of COURSE the other contenders are going to have higher odds, because they did NOT win and prove themselves, though their performances in previous races will determine their eventual placement in the odds-race.
I believe it is the BETTING PUBLIC who actually determine the odds, with their betting. If public opinion favors the favorite, that is who they will bet on and it drives down the payout odds for that contender. If other members of the public (less numerous) bet on the other horses in the chance of having a higher odds payout...why, why that's GAMBLING! They are taking a chance, and sometimes that pays off handsomely for the bettors who are risk-takers.

This is not the first time it's happened, nor the last:
2004: Remember Smarty Jones? He won the Derby and the Preakness and lost the Belmont to Birdstone (36-1), who paid $74.00.
2002: War Emblem won the first two legs and lost the third to Sarava (70-1), who paid $142.50.
1999: It happened again with Charismatic, who lost the Belmont to Lemon Drop Kid (odds not found), paid $61.50.
And the list goes on and on.
Again, I cannot follow your theory that the winners/losers are driven solely by their betting odds. Of the instances you mentioned, I would be interested to know if those Belmont winners raced in all three Triple Crown races and how they placed in the first two legs of that journey, if they did race. Granted, that is just a small part of determining why a race turns out as it does.
There could have been innumerable causes; horse feeling 'off', bumped or jostled at the gate or during the race can make a horse 'quit', expending too much energy pre-race with all the hype or hubub surrounding them, jockey made a poor decision or was unable to get out of a racing situation (boxed in), differing training practices and levels of fitness/readiness...just to name a few, becuse this list certainly can go on and on.
And THAT is horse racing.

*will someone please tell me what is meant with the comment "he probably bled". Does this mean he bled through his nostrils or (because I didn't see any visible blood on BB) something more internal? I know Lasix is used for 'bleeders' but I do not know exactly where this bleeding occurs, I've only ever seen it from nostrils.

[pnalley]

Bleeding is from the small capillaries in the lungs, that is why you see it in the nostrils.

Helen. From seeing your math I believe you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and I really wish you would share with me.:v:

Spendthrift may have Boundary , but Three Chimneys is getting Big Brown, so they will be a competing breeding facilities.

Supposedly they are/were aiming for the Travers & BC Classic. Only time will tell now.

[Privatetreaty]

Heidi, I have something to tell you about something that happened back in the 1970's. It's a completely true story. But, I will not post it.

I'll be more than happy to tell you, via telephone.

[Privatetreaty]

Helen. From seeing your math I believe you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, and I really wish you would share with me.:v:

Spendthrift may have Boundary , but Three Chimneys is getting Big Brown, so they will be a competing breeding facilities.



I stand corrected, Paula.
My math was off and I've corrected it.
Thank you.



I never mentioned where Big Brown was going to stand.
I just said his sire will not compete with him, as a breeding stallion.


.

[Privatetreaty]

I am sorry, I really cannot beleive it is as simple as you imply.
Of COURSE the Derby/Preakness winners are going to have lower odds, they have proven they could win the first two races of the Triple Crown journey. Of COURSE the other contenders are going to have higher odds, because they did NOT win and prove themselves, though their performances in previous races will determine their eventual placement in the odds-race.
I believe it is the BETTING PUBLIC who actually determine the odds, with their betting. If public opinion favors the favorite, that is who they will bet on and it drives down the payout odds for that contender. If other members of the public (less numerous) bet on the other horses in the chance of having a higher odds payout...why, why that's GAMBLING! They are taking a chance, and sometimes that pays off handsomely for the bettors who are risk-takers.


Again, I cannot follow your theory that the winners/losers are driven solely by their betting odds. Of the instances you mentioned, I would be interested to know if those Belmont winners raced in all three Triple Crown races and how they placed in the first two legs of that journey, if they did race. Granted, that is just a small part of determining why a race turns out as it does.
There could have been innumerable causes; horse feeling 'off', bumped or jostled at the gate or during the race can make a horse 'quit', expending too much energy pre-race with all the hype or hubub surrounding them, jockey made a poor decision or was unable to get out of a racing situation (boxed in), differing training practices and levels of fitness/readiness...just to name a few, becuse this list certainly can go on and on.
And THAT is horse racing.

*will someone please tell me what is meant with the comment "he probably bled". Does this mean he bled through his nostrils or (because I didn't see any visible blood on BB) something more internal? I know Lasix is used for 'bleeders' but I do not know exactly where this bleeding occurs, I've only ever seen it from nostrils.



Sure, circumstances happen and there were other horses that won the Belmont that were not long shots.
I only mentioned the long shots from 1999 to 2008 and limited my list to the Belmont.

Betting IS the big game.


.

[Cindy]

Betting may be the big ball game to the gamblers but there are very few owners, trainers, jockeys or other connections who give a rat's hind end about the gamblers. They are there to win the races and, fortunately for the horses, the gamblers don't get to make the decisions. Not to mention the more money that is laid out on a horse the lower his odds go. BBs odds were so crappy because he had like 5 million bet on him to win. Now why anyone would bet on him at those odds, I have no idea. But they did. So that just goes to show you that the gamblers are the true idiots. To think that the true idiots control anything at all, please. They may fix a race or two but in general the people who own the horses that are racing at this level like to win much more than they need the money.

[Soltera]

The way he was pulled up looked a bit suspicious to me, but I have no idea how betting works. After reading Cousin Helen's posts it makes more sense. Mostly. Interesting thread.

[SandyMM]

Now why anyone would bet on him at those odds, I have no idea.
To have a piece of history (winning ticket) if Big Brown had won the Triple Crown... :D And you can 'bet' some of them would have ended up on ebay!

[Cindy]

The way he was pulled up looked a bit suspicious to me, but I have no idea how betting works. After reading Cousin Helen's posts it makes more sense. Mostly. Interesting thread.

Yes, too suspicious. If one were throwing a race, one would most certainly NOT pull the horse up like that. He was nowhere near winning the race so why risk looking suspicious? And, remenber Smarty Jones? Yeah, wasn't he the one who lost by a nose in the Belmont? A little too close for throwing a race, don't you think? The real fact is that running that long a race after coming off the other two races so close together is an amazing feat. One that very few horses have the strength to do. But conspiracy theories are always more interesting that facts, aren't they?

[Abejita]

Gee I have heard of the Breeder's CUP ( TB) and the Breeder's Crown ( StB) but never a race called the Breeder's Club.....

[GregM]

Big Brown's jockey Kent Desormeaux said in a live national radio interview they were entering the Travers and the Breeder's with him as the rider.

[Cindy]

When?

[GregM]

When was the interview? This morning about 10:30 on the Dan Patrick show.

[motorgypsy]

There's always the heat factor. It can be huge and temps were breaking records. And we know horses. He just may have decided it was too darn hot. And we won't know until he decides to tell us. I'm just glad he's OK. You know that jockey still sees Eight Belles at the derby in his mind.

As far as who wins, there's always the theory that the horses themselves decide who is going to win:biggrin:

[Cindy]

That jockey has ridden in dozens of races since the Derby. He does not see Eight Bells when he is riding.

[pnalley]

The jockey didn't even see Eight Belles on Derby day. He was 5+lengths in front of her at the end and was taking the mike and kudos when she broke down. I'm sure he's had one go down under him, but if he OR any jockey thought about that. they would loose their nerve and would never be an effective (winning) rider again.

Cindy said in part:But conspiracy theories are always more interesting that facts, aren't they?

Sad to say, but I keep trying to justify Big Brown's lose with something, anything. I have never done that before. I have always just figured it wasn't the right horse at the right time. He just "felt" like the one.

Oh well, I guess Secretariat will remain my hero forever. I bet they showed his Belmont clip 20 times Saturday, and EVERY time I got chills.

PS
I read Big Brown was on lasix for the Belmont so bleeding was most likely not the problem.

[SandyMM]

if he OR any jockey thought about that. they would loose their nerve and would never be an effective (winning) rider again.
Absolutely true.... if you have doubts, you cannot race. He said before the race that once he was on the horse - nothing else mattered and he would be 100% focused on that race.

[GregM]

Just for you, Paula. Just a little "perspective" on Big red.

[motorgypsy]

I didn't mean Big Belle's affect on his nerves. I meant the idea that once Big Brown showed that he was off, the jockey would want to do everything possible to protect the horse regardless of the investment and to avoid that kind of "bad ending". When in doubt, save the horse. I'm sure all the good jockeys are constantly in tune with the horse looking for something the "just ain't right" and doing their best to prevent injury.

[GregM]

Here's a link to that interview with Big Brown's jockey:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/06/09/desormeaux.dp/index.html

[motorgypsy]

I loved it - he might have just decided he liked going slow.:D

[Cindy]

Interesting article after reading the jockey interview. This one from the trainers perspective.






Big Brown trainer pins blame on jockey
By RACHEL COHEN, AP Sports Writer 2 hours, 43 minutes ago

NEW YORK (AP)—Trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. still blames Kent Desormeaux for Big Brown's
stunning last-place finish in the Belmont Stakes, but he wouldn't object to the jockey
riding the horse in his next race.

The decision of whether to change jockeys is up to co-owner Michael Iavarone, Dutrow
said.

"I don't want to hurt anyone, especially Kent," Dutrow told The Associated Press on
Tuesday morning in his barn at Aqueduct. "But I still don't understand what happened. I
don't see the horse with a problem, so I have to direct my attention toward the ride. That's
all I can come up with."

With Big Brown trying to become the first Triple Crown champion in 30 years after
dominant wins in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Desormeaux eased up the unbeaten
colt with a quarter-mile remaining in the Belmont on Saturday.

"I had no horse. He was empty," Desormeaux said after the race.

Dutrow insisted Tuesday he had found nothing wrong with Big Brown.

"Maybe next week if something starts going wrong with the horse, then I'll understand
everything," he said.

Dutrow added: "As long as the horse stays the way that I see him right now, then things
are just going to keep building up for me to know that it was the ride that did him in."

He said he hadn't spoken to Desormeaux, but "if he calls me I'll talk to him, sure."

If Big Brown is healthy, the plan is for him to run next in the Travers Stakes on Aug. 23 at
Saratoga.

Dutrow had no regrets about his bombastic proclamation that Big Brown clinching the
Triple Crown was a "foregone conclusion."

"It's not like I'm going to go and cry in the corner," he said as he prepared for several of
his horses to run Wednesday at Aqueduct. "I've got plenty to do here."



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http://americanpasofinos.com/forum/cid:part2.09000702.06060109@qnet.com
__,_._,___

[Cindy]

And on the lighter side, an interview with the Big Boy himself.:D

Reporter) Big, tough race out there today, disappointed?

(Big Brown) Let's see, I win the race and I get a bunch of carnations
around my neck and a picture with a short guy on my back. Afterwards I
go back, have a nice meal, and sleep in a barn. Then I end up getting
put out to stud. If I have this figured right, all I'm out is the photo.

(Reporter) So you weren't trying?

(Big Brown) You saw the race.

(Reporter) Did you give it your all?

(Big Brown) Which part of "you saw the race" is escaping you,
Einstein? Tell, you what, stamp on the ground three times if you can
hear me. Next question.

(Reporter) Did your trainer guaranteeing a Triple Crown put any
pressure on you?

(Big Brown) Oh, no (rolls eyes). You're out there with eleven other
great athletes and your trainer is in the press saying they're all on
their way to becoming dog food. When we were loading up you could cut
the tension with a knife.

(Reporter) Did that affect the outcome?

(Big Brown) I'm on the rail to start, always a tough spot. The bell
goes off and I'm boxed in. It just so happens the horse in front of me
slows and "accidentally" kicks me. I blame Dutrow.

(Reporter) You come back from that and are in third on the far turn.
Desormeaux says he asked you for a move and, I am quoting here,
realized "I had no horse."

(Big Brown) He said what?

(Reporter) "I had no horse".

(Big Brown) Why that little (bleep). I drag his dead (bleep) around
these (bleep) tracks and he says "I had no horse". What did he think
he was riding, a (bleep) big (bleep) red dog?

(Reporter) You were lightly excercised between the Preakness and the
Belmont. Did that have any effect on you?

(Big Brown) It ain't about that at all. It's easy to sum it up if
you're just talking about practice. We're standing here, and I'm
supposed to be the the first Triple Crown winner in 30 years, and
we're talking about practice. I mean listen, we're here talking about
practice, not a race, not a race, not a race, but we're talking about
practice. Not the race that I go out there and die for and run every
race as if it's my last but we're talking about practice man. How
silly is that?

Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm
not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's
important, I honestly do but we're talking about practice. We're
talking about practice man. (laughter from the media crowd) We're
talking about practice. We're talking about practice. We're not
talking about the race. We're talking about practice. When you come to
the track, and you see me run, you've seen me run right, you've seen
me give everything I've got, but we're talking about practice right
now. (more laughter).

(Reporter) Big Allen Iverson fan?
(Big Brown) Why do you ask?

(Reporter) What about the quarter crack in the front hoof that wasn't
patched until yesterday?

(Big Brown) Talk to Dutrow about that. I just show up and run the
race. I'm not here to make excuses.

(Reporter) What did you think when Desormeaux pulled you up?

(Big Brown) "I had no jockey".

(Reporter) Meaning?

(Big Brown) I can see I'm not the only one in this room with a brain
the size of a walnut.

(Reporter) Several people track side said your manners weren't good on
the way to the gate and the heat appeared to be affecting you?

(Big Brown) My manners now is it? Well, excuse me for not prancing all
the way out in 88 degree heat with darn near 100% humdity. You people
think this is so easy, give it try. My gear is in the barn and I'm
sure we can get Kenny boy to hop on your back and beat with a whip for
two minutes while you're running as fast as you can.

(Reporter) What about the future?

(Big Brown) I'm outta here, man, I'm outta here. Talk to Dutrow.

__._,_.___

[Pasogirlz]

LOL. Very cute Cindy. Loved it.

Was it just me? Or did anyone else notice that the horse that won took the lead out of the starter gate and held it all the way thru the race? I've never seen that before. Usually the first to take the lead falls back before the finish. Personally, I feel this horse was robbed of 15 minutes of fame. JMHO

[SandyMM]

I just didn't like anything about his race... he lugged out of the gait, seemed like he stumbled, he was pitching his head and fighting the rider when he got boxed, it _looked_ like he might have gotten kicked... did they ever decide on that for sure? I'd say the horse figured it was a bad day for racing and said ">Whinney< it!"....

[Cindy]

Yep, he went wire to wire. Very unusual for a race of that caliber.

[motorgypsy]

And they're sending me to REHAB cause I said NO NO NO;)

[Cindy]

And I bet you guys did not know that Big Brown keeps a journal. And now, a telling peak into the private writings of a racing star.....


June 10, 2008, 12:05AM
COUCH SLOUCH
Big Brown unsaddled and totally uncensored

By NORMAN CHAD



So, what happened to Big Brown? Was he unhealthy? Hot? Tired? Did someone get to him? For rare insight into the world of a fallen equine champion, we have obtained Big Brown's private journal from his historic week that wasn't at Belmont:
Sunday: You think Warren Buffett flies coach? Heck, when they ship me, I don't even get a movie on board. I mean, I'm worth $50 million at stud and I'm traveling in a trailer?. ... I ran into War Emblem at 7-Eleven. Dude's really let himself go. ... When nobody's around, one of our favorite games at the stables is Pin the Tail on the Jockey. ... I'm glad Blabbermouth Dutrow thinks it's a "foregone conclusion" I'm going to win the Belmont. Man, my foot is KILLING ME. ...
I love the smell of fresh hay in the morning.
Monday: Why the fuss about my steroid use? Dancing With The Stars pretty boy Christian de la Fuentes is popping Percocets like Skittles and he's an international hero. ... Why is everyone always interviewing Kent Desormeaux? You could've put Gary Coleman in the saddle and I still win these races by five lengths. ... I don't trust people, which is why I've arranged for direct deposit on all my purse money. ... Next year at this time, it'll just be me and the mares in the backwoods of Kentucky. ...
Shouldn't PETA concentrate on bullfighting?
Tuesday: If we're winning so much money, how come the hoof specialist who treats me looks like an orderly from Scrubs? ... I always have trouble sleeping in New York, plus the escort service won't send a filly out this far. ... Just plucked The Black Stallion off of Amazon for $3.89, plus shipping. Sweet. ... I think I heard Blabbermouth Dutrow telling reporters I could beat Obama and McCain. If we lose this race, I've got two words for you: jockey error. ...
If it were up to me, all grooms would be required to wear deodorant.
Wednesday: Casino Drive, my foot. That horse couldn't beat a Budweiser Clydesdale pulling a wagon full of Michelob Ultra. ... My allergies are acting up, but I've got a medicine cabinet full of Winstrol instead of Claritin. ... I heard a rumor that Barn No. 9 has premium cable. ... I'm worried about Denis of Cork like Travis Henry is worried about birth control. ... If I'm Big Man on Campus, how come my stall is downwind from the gaseous Icabad Crane? ...
How tough is it to get organic oats for breakfast?
Thursday: Part of me says I can't lose, but another part of me — my hoof — says I need some time off my feet. ... Blabbermouth Dutrow's talking about the Travers Stakes and the Breeders' Cup Classic, but I've got a date with the ladies. ... What's with these predawn workouts? I like sleeping in. ... In my next life, I'll go to the whip on Kent Desormeaux every day and twice on Sunday. ... What, there are no cute exercise riders in all of New York? ... .I have an itch behind my right ear that I just can't get to. ...
My favorite Triple Crown winner of all-time? Probably Joe Medwick.
Friday: Here's what went wrong with Smarty Jones: The night before the Belmont, he played Chutes and Ladders until 4 in the morning. ... Frankly, I don't think Casino Drive could even beat me at Pai Gow. ... Talked to Barry Bonds on the phone briefly. He's one of the few athletes out there I can relate to. ... They've got this acrylic patch on my cracked hoof when all I want is a pair of penny loafers. ... Would it kill the National Horsemen's Benevolence & Protection Association to offer us free dental? ...
I don't want to alarm anybody, but I'm really in no mood to run a mile and a half.
Saturday: Oh, so today we're finally racing? I usually don't know until the post parade. ... I'll tell you why Casino Drive scratched: One, he couldn't win; two, he found a jockey's head in his bed this morning. ... What a big crowd; they must be giving something away. ... God, I hate the rail. I need room to roam. ... I can't get that R. Kelly song out of my head. ... So I lose one race and pull up, 'cause what's the point of chasing fifth place?
Let's make foals!!!

here is the link-
Chad: Big Brown tells all in private journal | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/5828509.html)

[Privatetreaty]

Was it just me? Or did anyone else notice that the horse that won took the lead out of the starter gate and held it all the way thru the race? I've never seen that before. Usually the first to take the lead falls back before the finish.

You and Cindy are right.
TB's typically are "come from behind" runners. "Wire to wire" racers, either have a history of running like that; or opportunity; or they are placed there and the pack trails behind.

Da'Tara spent most of his racing career here, in South Florida.
Only one other time did he win, running wire to wire; when he broke his maiden as a three year old at Gulfstream.

In the Barbaro Stakes, he almost went wire to wire. He dropped back to 2nd by the back stretch, where he came in by half a length.

7-2-2-1 Out of seven starts, Da'Tara come in first twice, second twice and third once.
He's entered four stake races (including the Belmont).

In the Derby Trial, he finished 5th, after running 3rd until he reached the half mile pole.

Da'Tara's only other encounter with Big Brown was in the Florida Derby (field of 12). Da'Tara started off in 2nd, but quickly faded to 8th by the quarter mile. He ultimately finished 9th.
Yet, Big Brown started 4th, took the lead by the quarter mile and kept widening the gap, until he won by 5 lengths.


Da'Tara didn't run in the Derby (Kentucky) nor the Preakness.
Out of the 10 horses in the field, 5 horses out ranked Da'Tara.
His 38-1 odds in the Belmont were a direct reflection of his race record and the horses he was racing against.


*********************************


A half brother to Da'Tara (same dam) was sold this morning at auction in Ocala for $120,000.
He is an unnamed 2 year old in training.
I wouldn't be surprised if this sale tops the entire 2 day sale.

Click below to view this colt's catalog page-
http://www.obssales.com/juncatalog/2008/121.PDF

.

[Cindy]

Cousin Helen, this article might interest you. It did me.:D

Commentary: Drill Bits
Date Posted: June 10, 2008

Billy Turner, the last living trainer to win the Triple Crown­ the horseman who so deftly guided Seattle Slew through the perilous straits of the spring classics in 1977­was hardly surprised at the outcome of the 140th Belmont Stakes (gr. I) June 7, given that favored Big Brown had been barely trained for the race.

But Turner, now 68, was stunned and even outraged by Kent Desormeaux’ ride aboard the horse, if indeed it can even be characterized as a ride.

“We had a disaster yesterday,” Turner said, after he finished training his stable of horses the day after the Belmont. “I’ll tell you one thing. You never, ever pull up a horse who’s structurally sound. No jock should ever pull up a horse in a classic race. If he had bobbled, that’s one thing. But he had a hard time pulling him up. When he did pull him up, he was sound! He took him out of the race. In the 1960s, ’70s, and even into the 1980s, the New York stewards would have run him (Desormeaux) out of New York and told him not to come back.”

Told that Desormeaux was getting accolades for protecting the horse, Turner blurted, “Protecting him from what?!”

No, no. By Turner’s lights, Desormeaux’ decision to ease Big Brown was analogous to the ending of the welterweight championship fight between Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran in 1980, a joust known forever and famously as the “no mas” fight. Sensing that he was going to be badly beaten and even humiliated by a fitter, faster Leonard, Duran threw up his arms in the middle of the ring and, for the ages, declared to the referee, “No mas! No more box.” In truth, the Panamanian boxer suffered from an excess of pride­he had achieved an iconic status in his native land­and he simply could not face the prospect of being whipped bloody before millions of people. So he bailed out.

Turner sensed the same fear of humiliation at work in Desormeaux’ performance­a kind of “no mas” ride that had the same bad odor to it.

“He was getting beat and he couldn’t stand it,” Turner said. “When I saw him pull up, I thought, ‘Oh, no! He’s broken down and the rider’s saving him.’ But then I saw him when he walked off and there was nothing wrong with the horse. The horse was happy. He would have beaten most of the horses in the Belmont…No wonder (trainer) Rick Dutrow had nothing to say after the race. What can you say? The stewards have got to do something to prevent this from becoming a regular practice. They can’t allow this kind of thing to go on.”

Turner’s indignation springs from roots that go deep in this game. He is not just the last Triple Crown trainer still alive and kicking hay bales, but he’s also still the only horseman ever to win it with an undefeated horse. The passage of time has only made this training feat appear all the more brilliant and remarkable. The man knows precisely what it takes to win the Triple Crown, and he says that he had made it a point, in bringing Slew to the Belmont 31 years ago, to make a study of what it took to prepare a 3-year-old to win at 12 furlongs in early June. What he learned back then, by looking at training regimens of horses like Chateaugay (1963) and Arts and Letters (1969), has been considerably strengthened by what he has witnessed in the Belmont since the days of the mighty Slew.

“I studied the Belmont going back to Stage Door Johnny (1968) and even further back, and those horses were drilled for the Belmont,” Turner said.

The old-fashioned trainers like Greentree’s John Gaver, who trained Stage Door Johnny, and Woody Stephens, who won those five Belmonts in a row, knew how and when to lean on a horse and get to the bottom of him.

“Woody and his whole shootin’ match of Belmont winners were drilled for the Belmont,” Turner said.

And, of course, there was Lucien Laurin with Secretariat. After setting two track records, in the first two legs of the Triple Crown, he worked three times at Belmont Park: three-quarters in 1:121 5, a mile in 1:344 5 (galloping out nine furlongs in 1:48 and change), and a half-mile in :463 5 on top of the race. There is no need here to recall how he performed in the Belmont Stakes.

No doubt stepping gingerly around that quarter crack, Dutrow worked Big Brown twice in five weeks after the colt won the Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr. I): a two-furlong work at Pimlico in :25.40 on the morning of the Preakness (gr. I)­a race, not incidentally, in which his Beyer Speed Figure plunged to 100 after reaching a Kentucky Derby high of 109­and a five-furlong move in a minute flat, breezing, four days before the Belmont.

What Turner knew was that Big Brown would have had to be a veritable Pegasus to win the Belmont off a work load that would not have turned a hair on a 2-year-old maiden claimer.

Turner was not alone in figuring that the quarter crack, which had forced the colt to miss three days of training, was driving his training schedule. Or lack of it. Turner knew that interruptions caused by physical problems could have a deadening effect on a horse’s ability to perform in this longest and most testing of the Triple Crown races. In fact, nagging physical problems outright killed the chances of at least two exceptional horses racing for the sport’s ultimate bauble.

“Canonero II couldn’t drill for the Belmont and he got beat,” Turner recalled. “And Majestic Prince couldn’t drill and he got beat. And they were good horses! But they couldn’t train and so they got beat. I figured if Big Brown could win the Belmont off that training, he was not mortal. He was immortal. If he won, he’d be above description, because if you miss training coming to the Belmont it really, really hurts.”

All of which conspired to make this Triple Crown the most anti-climactic in modern history, certainly since this writer began watching races in the mid-1950s and following the Triple Crown since Northern Dancer lost the Belmont, and the Crown, in 1964. What made it such an anti-climax, to be sure, was the overwhelming sense that this colt was truly exceptional, and that if any horse could overcome adversity, it was this strapping bay with the little star on his forehead. After all, he had already surmounted and outrun his pedigree: his sire, Boundary, was a confirmed sprinter, and his maternal grandsire, Nureyev, was a miler who sired a lot of good turf horses. Brownie was a freak.

Indeed, he had also overcome the historical odds at every turn. Even on the morning after the race, the man who had just won the Belmont, trainer Nick Zito, was still talking about Big Brown’s five-length triumph in the Florida Derby (gr. I), when he broke from post position 12, as though it were among the marvels of the modern age.

“Horses just don’t win from out there at Gulfstream,” Zito said. “He was awesome.”
He became the first horse in 93 years to win the Kentucky Derby with only three lifetime starts coming into it, and he won it with a flare and panache suggesting he was on his way to joining the company of the indubitable giants­from those 11 Triple Crown winners to horses like Forego, Dr. Fager, and Cigar.

For those who study and revere the history of this sport, all of the talk about the colt’s controversial connections was an interesting diversion, perhaps, but had nothing to do with what the colt was doing on the track, or with his place in history. Big Brown had as much to do with picking his owners and trainer as he had to do with picking his own sire and dam, and to hold him somehow accountable for his human connections is as foolish as it is unfair.

Big Brown had come to Belmont to make history, all the distractions and adversities be damned, and what we saw was the failure in the Belmont of the seventh Triple Crown candidate in the last 12 years. There is a distinct possibility, after this grim fiasco, that we’ve seen the last of Big Brown, and that our final memory of him will be of his jockey knuckling down on him and getting no response, taking a strong hold of him on the turn­when he saw he had no chance to win­and then cantering slowly home, to the cheers of some and to the shock of others.

“If he doesn’t run again,” Turner said, “all you’ll remember is that Big Brown won three grade-1s and that’s all. To me it’s just sad­real sad. I think he is a really good horse.”

Just how good, of course, we may never know.

by Bill Nack

[Cindy]

I thought this one was good too.


Haskin Belmont Wrap: Why Down on Brown?
by Steve Haskin

Updated: June 12, 2008

This is not about Rick Dutrow or Kent Desormeaux or Michael Iavarone. They’ve been beaten up enough. This is mostly about the victim many people seem to have forgotten: Big Brown, who has fallen out of favor quicker than Roger Clemens. The question is: why?
The only comment we’ll make on Dutrow is in response to all those who keep referring to his ego. Dutrow may offend people by making impulsive statements that many perceive as outrageous, but they’re about his horses. That’s not ego. Each day, Dutrow made it a point to say that anyone could train Big Brown. His job was only to stay out of his way and not screw it up. You could hardly call that ego. As for his so-called trash talking of Casino Drive, the colt’s racing manager, Nobutaka Tada, laughed at it and actually thought it was “funny” and “entertaining.” If he wasn’t offended by it why should anyone else be offended? In Dutrow’s mind, he was simply saying what he believed, period. That’s Dutrow.

On the other hand, his comments about John Servis and Smarty Jones’ work before the Belmont were uncalled for and not even based on truth, and I would imagine he’d want to take that back if he could. When someone like Dutrow speaks to the press for hours and hours, something is going to come out that shouldn’t. How many comments would Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and Barack Obama like to take back after a year and a half of speeches?

OK, so you don’t like Dutrow. He is what he is, which is different from everyone else. He talks from the gut and you either accept him or you don’t. So, you feel Kent Desormeaux gave Big Brown a bad ride and shouldn’t have eased him in such an abrupt manner and fought with him down the stretch. Only he knows why he did it, and his comments afterward, instead of providing an explanation, were all over the place, especially the one comment that there was nothing physically wrong with the horse; it just wasn’t his day. He should either offer a definitive reason why he pulled him up in such dramatic fashion or admit he made a mistake and acted hastily. Either way, it will be accepted and everyone can move on, just as Dutrow and Desormeaux have moved on following some verbal darts thrown by Dutrow about the ride.

As for Iavarone, he’s never claimed to be a saint, and with IEAH Stables, despite their corporate image, you can’t totally discount the much-needed veterinary hospital they are currently building across from Belmont Park or the many charities they’ve donated to. This is not a defense of anyone, just a prelude to the negativity surrounding Big Brown.

Whatever you feel about Big Brown’s connections, how can you not like the horse after all the excitement he provided and all he accomplished and overcame? There are people who don’t like Steve Asmussen or Jess Jackson for whatever reason but love Curlin, despite his minority owners being in jail. I never heard anyone say they didn’t like Affirmed because his owner, Lou Wolfson, once spent nine months in a minimum-security prison for conspiracy and illegal stock sales.

Are we that unforgiving when it comes to Big Brown that one bad race negates five spectacular victories? No one knows why he ran so poorly in the Belmont, but from the number of theories circulating around, it sure took a lot to get him beat.

If you feel Big Brown’s accomplishments are diminished because he was on the steroid Winstrol, you’d be surprised how many top horses are on Winstrol, including some big names who get much larger doses than Big Brown. Does that make it right? Of course not, but getting Winstrol once a month did not make Big Brown the superhorse many people once thought he was and still may be. If it did, we’d have barnfuls of superhorses. We should just ban all steroids already and clean out this latest snake pit before it becomes too dangerous to handle.

The 2008 Triple Crown will be about Big Brown long after all the controversies surrounding his human connections fade away, as they do in other sports. Did anyone hear any boos for admitted steroid user Jason Giambi when he hit a game-winning homer with two outs in the ninth inning against the Blue Jays two days before the Belmont?

The one agonizing aspect of the Belmont is the mystery surrounding Big Brown’s performance. We’ve heard many theories, and that is what they will remain. No one will ever know for sure why a horse that personified perfection suddenly came apart at the seams. Was it the deep track, the stifling heat, getting rank early in the race, the traffic and bumping going into the first turn, acting up in the holding barn, missing four days of training, possibly being dehydrated, sweating between his legs and not much on his body, breaking awkwardly, possibly getting spooked by the starter in a blue jacket and white pants standing right on the racetrack,? It likely was a combination of occurrences that led to his shocking performance.

Here is one person’s theory which of those is most prominent, and it is a theory that has been shared by others in the last few days. Dutrow does not share it, and does not wish to comment on it, but differences of opinion are what make racing such a passionate sport.

I’m wary of horses who are attempting to sweep the Triple Crown having only one easy five-furlong breeze between the Preakness and Belmont. That doesn’t mean they can’t, I’m just wary, based on what history has taught us. Smarty Jones had one slow seven-furlong breeze and came up a bit short in the Belmont. Did that contribute to his defeat? Maybe not by itself, but the horse did refuse to relax when pressured early, which wasn’t the case in the Derby and Preakness.

I’m certainly not comparing Big Brown to Secretariat, but in between the Preakness and Belmont, Big Red breezed six furlongs in 1:12 1/5 in the slop on May 27, worked a mile in 1:34 4/5 on June 1, and breezed a half in :46 3/5 two days before the race. And that was more the norm than having only one little five-furlong breeze. All our Triple Crown winners had strong works before the Belmont. If a horse did what Secretariat did now, everyone would jump down the trainer’s throat. But history has shown, that’s how you win the Triple Crown. I don’t necessarily mean working that fast, but having at least two strong works and keeping the horse on the roll he’s been on and not letting him come off his adrenaline high prematurely. You want him to come off it after the Belmont when you can let him down slowly. Winning the Triple Crown is not about freshness; it’s about toughness.

It is very possible those missed training days proved more costly than people think, because it wasn’t until then that Big Brown started getting too tough to even walk around the shed row and was crawling out of his skin. Coming off the track one morning he was bucking and hard to handle. Remember, the quarter crack came after a week of little activity, so he went 17 days following the Preakness without working. He became too wound up and it continued all the way to race day in the holding barn and on the track. That’s not want you want to see from a professional horse like Big Brown before a mile and a half race. His strength was his ability to settle and relax, and those missed days and having only one easy breeze in three weeks most likely lit a fire in him that caused him to bubble over on race day. Had his work not been postponed until Tuesday of race week because of the quarter crack, Dutrow, if he so desired, could have blown him out the day before or the day of the race to take the nervous edge off him.

I believe that, combined with a tiring track, the sweltering heat, and the other aforementioned factors, is what did him in. Under the circumstances, after becoming rank right after the break, the best thing would have been to let the colt go to the lead or sit right off Da’ Tara’s flank along the inside if you’re afraid of getting caught up in a fast pace, which rarely happens in the Belmont. Secretariat sat off Sham along the rail and basically outsprinted everyone home. The best place to get a headstrong horse to relax going a mile and a half is on the lead where you’re in control and not subjected to a quirky pace, which often results in an oddly run race.

So, why did I pick Big Brown to win? Because I thought he was so much better than everyone else he could overcome it with a good trip, and felt maybe he’d settle down by race day. Assuming that was the main cause of his defeat, and it’s just a theory, he obviously couldn’t overcome it, so I was wrong. But I still strongly believe the real Big Brown would have won by a pole.

Big Brown will be back. When he does there won’t be any UPS trucks delivering bales of hay; there won’t be any more photos with Hooters girls; there won’t be any more hordes of media, there won’t be any more foregone conclusions; there won’t be any more trash talking. By August, all we’ll have is Big Brown, who has already proven that’s plenty.

Shortly after Big Brown suffered his quarter crack, he was presented a hand-made poster by a young girl named Lucy, who drew a picture of the horse and wrote in crayon: “Dear Big Brown, I heard you were feeling down. Get better soon. Win the Triple Crown.” Attached to the poster, right next to the horse, was a brightly colored Band-Aid.

Right now, we could use that Band-Aid, and what it represented, to heal a wound far deeper than Big Brown’s injury.

[Soltera]

Thank you, everyone, for post these articles. Gives some measure of closure. Excellent thread!

[Privatetreaty]

Thank you, everyone, for post these articles. Gives some measure of closure. Excellent thread!


Oh, but the plot thickens, my dear Cousin Soltera.


If you were denied an opportunity at the Triple Crowns, due to a "suspected" problem with the Jockey,
would you hire that Jockey back?

I find it strange that Big Brown's Trainer Rick Dutrow has no plans to replace Jockey Kent Desormeaux,
after pulling him up in the Belmont.



Additionally, they are NOT headed to Saratoga to run in the Travers. They are taking Big Brown to Monmouth Park, to run in the Haskell Invitational (same purse - longer race). They claim the weather and track conditions are more conducive. They must own a crystal ball, that is telling them what the weather will be like at Monmouth Park on August 3rd.



That is a very interesting, Cousin Cindy.
It reminded me of something I observed at a Paso show here in Miami, last year.
A stallion had just won the Fino class and the trainer took the horse back on the board, for a victory lap.
He stopped his horse midway down the sounding board and the crowd wildly applauded.
They took the horse in to the Fino Championship class, the horse took it upon himself to stop in the exact spot where the trainer had stopped him before. It cost him. He took Reserve.

We know horses are extremely intelligent and the last thing anyone wants to do is teach a horse "the wrong trick".


Jockey Kent Desormeaux has been around horses his entire life. He started off by racing Quarter Horses 22 years ago. Make no mistake, Mr. Desormeaux knew exactly what he was doing, when he pulled Big Brown up.


.

[pnalley]

Dutrow has actually stated something to the effect of: the only thing he can blame the race on is the jockey, since the horse came back uninjured. He also stated *if* a problem was to show up later with the horse he would then have an understanding of what went wrong. In that same interview he stated that the owners intended to use the same jockey, and that the owners had the final say as to who the rider would be.

[SandyMM]

Loose shoe picture/article on espn (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=3456907)