Getting him to walk!

[First Paso]

I have been working with my gelding since I got him seven months ago. He had been walking just fine, on line he will go into a walk on command, was about 90% walk under saddle on command. The past two days that I have ridden him he refuses to walk, he just wants to corto, trocha and move around all sloppy in hybrid gates.
The only thing that has changed at the barn is the return of the 2 year old stud, who had been away showing. Now he's back and gets put in the areana in the evenings so he can romp about. The stud is real mellow, not bred yet and very laid back western pleasure. My gelding went ape when he saw him out there the first time, busted the pressure release on the cross ties three times, trying to see him from the barn. He danced about like he did when he first came to the barn, all wired. We road in the adjacent round pen that evening and he acted like the brat child he can be.
Twice now I have ridden him since in the areana, and he wants to zip about. He gets angry fast and wont do his control walk circles. He is still good on the line, but under saddle he doesn't want to walk. If I work him in the "corto" speed he just wants to go faster, and does. I pull smoothly on the bit and realease as soon as he slows, but he will only walk three or four steps until he tries to zip again. This last session wasn't enjoyable for either of us, he was angry and I was feeling helpless as to how to work it out.
He had been range bred, is three/four years old and been gelded almost a year now. He is dominant and pushy, but gentle with the halter. I don't know if it has to do with the stud, or maybe just me doing something different. Any suggestions on how to slow him down to a walk under saddle? I feel horrible constantly pulling him to slow down. He backs and whoas just fine. Please throw some suggestions at me. Thanks

[First Paso]

I posted the new thread and realized the title sounded like I was able to get him to walk. I can't get him to walk...so that would be a better title. Thanks for all your advice ahead of time. Thanks

[SandyMM]

He _must_ listen to you and not get distracted by another 'competitor'. You must be consistent in requiring that he walks when you demand it. My guess is that it may work itself out in a while, but in the meantime, can he be moved to another stall or area where the two are out of sight of each other?

If you can work some of the 'sillies' out with a lot of 'wet saddle blankets' away from the stallion, he might be a bit more willing to listen to you.... It may not be much fun until he is willing to listen to you instead of worrying over his perceived competitor. You'll just have to stay with it until he eventually comes around to paying attention to you.

[Terry Wallace]

Clear one thing up for me first.....is this the first time he has ever been ridden? Or..is this a re-train type job?

If this is the first time ridden.... and he is trying to find his balance with a rider..you can expect him to not be in perfect gait all the time....he may well need more time to get acclimated to being ridden. Its very natural for gait to be off in the beginning...its really nothing to worry about. Control is what you need here, good gait would come second at this time.

If this is a retrain or a tune-up for this horse, you would be wise to employ one rein stop and circle him down until he DOES walk and don't let him out of that circle until he will WALK out of it. If this means you must spend a lot of time circling..so be it... if it means you need to ride him to every corner of a pen and have him stop and stand...so be it. (Be sure to verbally cue "stand" every time so you can get him used to that cue also).

Don't allow him to go faster than a walk...the moment he gets going too fast.... use a see-saw motiong on your reins...don't make a habit of pulling straight back for too long a time. You'd be far better off to "check him"...when you feel him start to go faster...check him, tug and release, apply an exagerated see saw motion to let him know you want to slow down....if he does not slow down....bring his head to your shoe and circle him.... I mean a fairly tight circle...don't let him out of the circle at anything BUT a walk...

If this is your first Paso Fino..be aware that they are very forward moving horses. You will need a set of cues to make sure that forward motion is controllable. You can start by flexing him a LOT..and in different directions.
You can instill your circle work any time he is not responding to the tug, release, follwed by see-saw motion if he does not slow down...and right into a tight circle until he can walk ONLY..both in the circle and leaving the circle.

This will take some diligence on your part. Be sure you give a clear command...personally..I am talking to my trainees all the time.... I use "Shhhhhhh" when I want a horse to slow down, I verbally cue first, then follow with an action (a check tug & release... or right into the see-saw motion so the horse knows I'm not liking the disregard for slowing) Once you start working on this...and the horse learns he will be "circled until boredom" you will get a better communication between you and he.

How does he do in long-reins? Do you drive him at all?
Can you slow him down with a verbal cue while driving?
Use what works...and keep it consistant.
With horses you will often need to "change it up a little"...so if something isn't working ...give that horse something else to think about.... throw him a curve...get him out of his "reactive" state and give him a goal to work toward and bring him back to his "thinking" state.
If you are getting frustrated..STOP...get off, hug his head, pet his face, speak to him kindly, let him know he is forgiven, take a big breath, let out a big sigh, and he will likely do the same. ...and then try again with what you were working on....

This sounds like a horse you should do quite a bit of arena work with at first...establish those cues so you have something to fall back on when you want to take him to "wide open places"...for now..ride where you CAN and not where you can't....don't put yourself in an unsafe predicament.

Is there anyone available to PONY you and him at a walk?
Is there another well trained horse that he can take some confidence from?

One other thing I'd like to mention is don't let him be distracted...I don't let my horses neigh to other horses, I don't let them dance around because of other horses in the area.... if I'm getting any behavior I don't want....its time for me to send that horse another assignment..and keep him active in "thinking" about other things. That may be as simple as me saying very loudly "AAaaaaahhhhh" to let him know I am watching and don't like what he is doing....to a quick wave of my hat to get his attention....or even growling like a dog to get that distracted attention back on me...I may even longe on a tight circle...whatever it takes to get that attention back.

[First Paso]

He is my first paso. He is the only paso at the barn. The extent of his training before me? They called him green. I rode in in a round pen after he was lounged for some time prior to buying him. I don't think his experiences were extensive, he freaked about going into the barn for the first time, but then it was all new to him. Even when upset he respects my space on the ground. I finaly got him to walk on lounge line about two months ago, prior to that he would take off as fast as the cirlcle would allow him...outside the round pen...he about tried yanking my arm off. Now he will make nice little cirlces or big on line, all gentle and controled. He stops and stands too. I can walk a 15 ft circle around him with the stand command. It took about 4 months, and I finally won the authority on the ground...I think.

Its all in the saddle. That's where he believes he should be in charge. I guess it will be a test as to how consistant I can be then? He is very good at testing, and creative. Sometimes a back, sometimes a kick out, head tossing, tail swishing, a refusal to move forward...very cranky at times. He's alot of horse in his little frame. I thank you for reminding me not to ride him if I get frustrated. I don't, I think they can read that, I laugh at his attempts sometimes...to keep in good spirits. He is so clever. Every time I get off him, he's that sweet gentle handsome boy, I rub where the bit sits, we get the halter on and go to the barn. We never seem to have hard feelings no matter how bad the session.

I don't know how to work him on long reins. The trainer at the barn is pleasure western...never seen anyone use them in "real life". She thinks he he needs an attitude adjustment. She has spurs...I told her he doesn't need them. So we are pretty solo at the barn. That's why I think this site is so helpful. I mean I am not against spurs, just a little nudge on him, and wow, you guys know what I mean.

No there is no other beast at the barn that can get one up on him. Not the donkey, not the head brood mare. He reigns supreme. He stays in the pasture, I tried stalling him but he kicked the #@$* out of the stall run. He doesn't share real well with neighbors The stud is in the barn in the stall. He can't see him from the areana, but when I groom him before going out in the areana there be the stud.

I don't worry about his gate, I read that it takes awhile. He slips into a smooth corto when he wants, its there.

So circle and circle some more. Sounds like I will be getting dizzy. I need to be consistant, and not let him get away with an inch. Check him when he just about starts the engine then? Sounds like alot of work. I know he is worth it, that's why I got a paso, no boring rides for me.

Do not let him get away with anything. Circle him until he walks out of the circle. Use consistant voice commands. I thought he knew walk...See if there are any willing people at the barn that will let him pony. Be firm, never frustrated. Get full attention, give different assignments. Thank you. My word CONSISTANT.

[Terry Wallace]

Your response tells me that you are learning just how smart a Paso Fino can be! That is GOOD!

He is very good at testing, and creative. Sometimes a back, sometimes a kick out, head tossing, tail swishing, a refusal to move forward

Yes....you are becoming VERY aware that this "ain't no Quarter Horse!" AND this I say coming from 20 years of QH training experience...!

They aren't just good at testing...they are GREAT at it....
Their intelligence is one of the reasons that giving them an assignment..especially if you need to take "their idea" and turn it around to be "your idea" works so well for them.
This is why it takes so much dilligence and a bit of inner strength on your part....

Here is an example of what I mean. You had stated that sometimes he backs... if I were on him, when he was refusing and instead of going forward, he began to back... He would "get" to back up a good 50 feet every time he used a backward motion to avoid a forward one. Its somewhat hard for a horse to back for very far at all...therefore I generally make them back up a pretty good distance...to get them over doing this. It won't take very many times of making it "your" idea to back up a substancial ways, before he will figure out that that ploy doesn't work.
Its the same thing you do if you ar longing a horse on a line..when they turn away and begin to back up or pull away...they get to back up a LONG, Long way....and that generally stops that in two or three times of them trying it.

You had mentioned that he sometimes kicks out....for that bit of beligerance testing...I'd apply a firm swat to the offending hip of the leg that kicked out. YES..it will startle him, and he will make the connection that if he kicks out
he just might get swatted...the thing to do is verbally cue him with NOOOOOOOOOO or as I so often use "Aaaaaahhhh" any time he begins to make any kind of bad action... to remind him that its "not allowed and not going to be tolerated". I never even hold a riding whip in my hand...if I think I may need one on a particualr horse...I have a double end snap that I snap it to a back ring on my saddle so it is handy for use. I don't unsnap it..I just reach back and "apply" it. Generally I need both my hands on green Pasos for the double reins I start them in.

Nope..you sure won't need spurs and you be sure to keep the "Trainer at your barn" far away from your Paso Fino.
Absolutley NO GOOD would come of riding him and using spurs to try to correct him...Pasos for the most part are extremely sensitive on their sides and I can about guarantee you....it just might get you thrown off in short order. Nor is it likely to affect any "correction" at all....its far more likely to make him think you are out to phsically hurt him and he will be on the defensive....Like I said before....this "ain't no Quarter Horse". This is a forward moving, forward thinking horse.... it would be a rare Paso Fino indeed who required spurs...unlike QH where MANY are always ridden with spurs to "keep them going".

When your horse refuses to move forward...there are a couple of things to try...
One would be to turn his head to your foot and ask him to circle....but lets say he is being really beligerant and he still just stands their with his head at your foot not moving...now you have to change it up a bit....try the other side...other foot, try alternating to each foot to see if you can break the refusal stance. Send him backing if you can...get him to move in ANY direction at this point..in the next few steps he takes you can resume trying to get forward movement.

Now..lets say ....you have tried to circle, you have tried alternating sides to move him, you have tried backing him....and still "no-go".
What you DON'T want to do is go wailing on him with a crop or spurs...do not "Get in a fight" with a Paso Fino.
They won't forget and it will just make things harder for you.
Now its time to "just sit there". Just sit there, relax, wait, breathe with large rythmic exhales (make sure that horse can hear you exhale).
Sit upon him and just wait. keep hold of the reins of course and just get relaxed and wait. Let him make the first move...and don't put a time limit on him....if it takes 30 minutes..then that is what it takes. Just don't get off...because he'd LOVE it if you just got off and unsaddled him! He would then be training YOU well!:biggrin:

Where Spanish Blooded horses are concerned, I have learned that its not a physical domination thing (spurs, whips, etc)...its a meeting of the minds kind of thing.
That horse will remember appx 95% of ANYTHING and everything it ever experiences or learns...so be sure to use this to your advantage and train mostly with your mind, stay a step ahead with your consistancy, taking care to always use the same verbal cue ...that kind of thing. Thats what earns you the trust you seek from that horse...it will come..but it takes time. It is very important that you do not lose your nerve and that is why I said it takes some inner strength on your part, and if you are frustrated at any time..take a time out, hug that horse's head..because a little reverse-psychology really works with very intelligent horses too....
If he is thinking you are getting angry and he may be in trouble...try a bit of reverse-psychology, you have kept him thinking...thrown a curve of forgiveness.

Works for me... JMO

May I ask what kind of headgear you are using? Is this horse in double reins currently?

[First Paso]

He has a simple english bridle, single reins. He was ridden with a snaffle when I purchased him, single reins. He had learned to get his tongue over it, it wasn't fitted very well at the place that I purchased him. When we got to this barn the trainer fitted him in a yearilng western bridle with snaffle. He kept tossing and messing with it trying to do the tongue thing, so she solved that with a cavendish? I thought that wasn't the right solution as he began refusing his bit from the get go. I did some research and got a Myler snaffle with a spinner and hooks. He takes it, no refusal and seems to be alright with it. He doesn't try to get ahead of the bit and doesn't toss around with it like before the Myler. He is fairly responsive to it, likes the spinner when we are relaxing at a stand. More than anything he responds to my body position, if I lean a certain way he will move that way, just a turn of my head/ body will get him in the direction I want. Most of the time! LOL sometimes he is pissy and I have to actualy use the reins for direction.

I really apreciate all this info Terry. This is the information non paso people don't have, and the information books want to glosss over. He is a challenge. He is better than he had been. He use to have bucking fits, at first it was unnerving, but we got over that. Like I said I laugh at him now, well his antics. I am not the best horse person in the world, but I can stay on just fine, because he isn't trying to kill me. That's why I can laugh, he is sweet...not a killer or anything just trying to get his way. Have to admire his spirit of the game. We'll get there. I imagine ten years from now he will still give me a test or two before heading out on a ride.

I really can't say thank you enough. I will print this out and read it over a couple times again when I need it. I need to come up with clever reactions for his behavior, I have to outsmart him with my own bag of tricks (may be difficult as my Appy that I grew up with didn't require any tricks, bags pretty empty). Thank you for some of yours solutions. I will be implementing them as needed. Your suggestions make sense, and that's what I need. Something that makes sense, the quarter horse methods, just pissed him off. The solutions that I was given at the barn seemed all wrong for him.

Like you said paso are smart, very smart...more than that I think they excell at problem solving, solving what they percieve to be a problem that is. I really am excited with the insight you have given me. I can't wait for our next session. Poor boy won't know what to do when he gets his way but much more than he expected. :D I will keep those voice commands comming too. So much information to process and train myself to use. Thank you!

[ruuhzoo]

I reading your posts, I saw myself and Dante, my first Paso about 7 years ago. Terry is giving you some very good suggestions.

I would also recommend that you examine metabolic causes, such as feed. Through a process of elimination with feeds, I discovered that Dante was sensitive to sugars in his feed, as well as feeds high in high glycemic starches (corn, oats, barley) which convert to sugars within the body. He ended up on Spillars (now Seminole) Cool Mix. I learned that a vitamin B1 supplement can help with carb breakdown. Magnesium can also do wonders for helping with food breakdown. The Spanish bloodlines are well known to be prone to equine metabolic disorders (cresty necks, fat deposits above the tail, fat sheaths). Once he got on the right feed, his attention span improved 100 percent and the "paso temper tantrums" went away for the most part. He would have one about once every three months instead of every 30 minutes.

Ground driving was also a big help. You can learn to communicate with the reins and voice commands without having to be on his back. It lessens the frustration when you are not having to fight for your seat. Linda Tellington-Jones published an excellent book for dealing with all sorts of horse issues last year that is wonderful.

Good Luck!

[motorgypsy]

Lots of great advice.

We also had the exact same problem. I suspect there are two causes but the cause really isn't important. What's important is that he pays attention to you and not external stimulae. The possible causes? age and competition with the new boy. Gelded or not males are extremely competitive, especially if there are mares around but mares can be this way also. It's good to try to figure out the cause - particularly if it's pain - but once you've eliminated pain or something like ulcers as the cause it's now back to LOTS of miles and no excuses for bad behavior.

My mare was just like your boy except that in addition to refusing to walk, she also bucked - a LOT. Luckily she's only 13 2 so her buck wasn't that hard to ride unless she threw in a few twists:biggrin: and she always stopped bucking when I lost my balance or stirrups, but nonetheless her bucking and going too fast and acting hyper and finoing all the time got to be very annoying.

Since she wanted to go fast I entered her in speed events at the local horseman's assoc. I always brought her friend so she had company and wasn't too stressed out but I ran her little behind at full gallop for ten events.

Then I entered her in LD endurance rides - 25 or 30 miles. It's amazing the calming effect doing 25 or 30 miles at a canter and largo can have on a horse who "wants to go fast" all the time.

Then I used clicker training on her to get the walk. She's a real chowhound so she'll do anything for food so it only took me a couple of days to get her to figure out how clicker training worked. You don't have to use a clicker but you can buy one for something like a quarter at PetSMart. I start with a fanny pack of carrot slices, a clicker (you can use the word EXCELLENT instead of a clicker but I like the clicker) and several object for him to touch on command.

I start with a known command given on the ground such as BACK. When she backed I clicked and gave her a carrot slice. Then FOOT. When she picked up the foot I asked for I gave her a carrot slice. And so on. Until she got the idea - NO treat if she did not do the reqested action. Once she figured it out I went to the touch command with the objects such as a brush, a comb, a bottle, a bucket and so on. I held them in different postions and told her to touch them. Initially I sort of cheated and held it close enough so she could touch it easily anda then went to high, low, to the right and to the left.

Once she caught on to this - two days max - I started in the saddle. I'd give the move out command, then the WHOA or HALT command. When she stopped I'd click (clicker was hung on the fanny pack), then reach down and give her a carrot slice. She figured this our very quickly. Then I started giving her the WALK command. If she took even two steps at the walk I'd click, stop her and give her the treat. It took me five days to get her to flat walk on a loose rein and I'd been trying for more than a year.

So - for the wanting to go fast, really long rides away from home makes a big difference in the going fast thing. The speed shows built MY confidence that I could ride whatever she did no matter how fast and no matter what she did. That in itself made a huge difference in her behavior. I was no longer concerned about falling off and could concentrate on working with her and enjoying her.

The clicker training is fantastic for the flat walk and for giving you great WHOAS. And it's sooooo fast and powerful!

But most of all you have to have confidance in yourself and be willing to experiment and stay safe.

We used a Kimberwick bit with a low port curb mouthpiece initially after the fiasco of trying a snaffle and a Tom Thumb, and they worked fine except on the endurance ride when a crowd of galloping horses would come by us and she'd want to run with them. She has a fantastic whoa but that was just too much for her and she'd ignore the bit and charge right after them. Yes I could stop her but I switched to the Myler short shank with a mouthpiece that won't collapse, three piece, rollars and a port or a curve. She's fine with both. Just that short shank jiggled with the reins was enough to remind her that I was up there and that she had to pay attention.

Be sure the curb chain is two fingers tight. The Mylers have independent shanks so they give excellent directionality cues as well as a bit different stop cue that they do notice.

I also agree that the left right back and forth pull with the reins is a very good technique to get the horse to focus on you and not the new stallion.

One piece of information I was given a long time ago that I think is so correct is "If they're going to misbehave, they'll do it at home in front of their friends". So true. So if you can take him somewhere with a horse that behaves well that he knows and likes, you might be very surprised at how good he is.

But 4 really is still a baby and their mind matures as well as their body..

ENJOY - they're so much fun!

[First Paso]

I used the suggestions given to me. I had an oppurtunity for pretty much all of them. LOL we spent alot of time circling. He is soooo stubborn. Really. He's doing a bit better, more on somedays than others. I think it will just take time, lots of time. He doesn't like the idea of not getting his way. He got extra naughty a couple of times and riverted to a buck or two when he felt the session should be done with. His no sound is Auhgt! and he seems to being getting the idea. Used the shhhhhs and he seems to recognise it, though not so keen on respecting it that much.

I think he must have gotten away with murder before I got him, or he really is very "my way or no way". I still have the barn people say I am too nice and let him get away with everything. This weekend I was told I to use open riens and just wack the %#@$# out of him really good anytime he does anything wrong. I don't let him get away with anything, he gets reprimanded (but not like that) every time, he never gets his way, the way he wants it at least. It can take us 5 minutes to get 10 feet if he doesn't want to go that way, but we end up going that way because I am persistant. Before he would have taken 15 minutes, so I think we are progressing. Someday he will be resided to the fact that he will just have to do what is asked. It will just take awhile.

I tell the people at the barn I don't want anyone but me to ride him. They seem to have ideas on how to fix him, and I don't think that's how it should be done. I asked about long reins, the trainer said they don't really work so well, and he is beyond that type of training. I was a little put out about that response, I think she just doesn't know how to use them.

He is pain free. His feed is the pasture. He doesn't get any supplements. The only treats he gets is when I give them. So hyper on sugar I don't think applies. He's not really even high strung, can be excitable if allowed, but when I am there and tell him easy he stays calm. I think he just doesn't believe in not getting his way.

I really do appreciate all the help and tools. I am using all the info you guys give me, and most of all the belief that one day we wont be circling so much, or backing up, or just standing there! Thank you.

I really wouldn't trade him for the world, everyday is an adventure!:p

[baileyholc]

This is a thread I need to keep an eye on. :v:

[Terry Wallace]

I asked about long reins, the trainer said they don't really work so well, and he is beyond that type of training.

Not so! Its never too late to use long reins...and you can establish a heck of a lot of control from the ground too.
It sounds to me as if you are right on track..yes it takes time...but it is time well spent to accomplish what you would like in the end....

Right now...you are in the "battel of wits" part.
He wants to keep doing what has always worked for him before...now he is finding out it "don't work so good anymore"...

I can understand why the other folks at the barn want you to punish & punish... whip him with those rein ends anytime he does ANYTHING wrong...wellllll...I do not agree.
All it will do is likely make things worse...not better.
Remember the "golden rule"...do not get in a fight with a Paso Fino.
Be "1% smarter" than the horse...and change things up until you find a better way...I assure you that wailing on him is not the answer. There is way too much DOMINATION training in horses, and this is likely why the "others" want to "take a crack at him" so to speak.
Sure...a person could wail on him, heck..even throw him to the ground, completely dominate him, make it to where he cannot move at all....but will it benefit the relationship between you and he? Nope....

I'm very glad you have stated that you want to be the only one who rides him...very astute on your part as five minutes in the wrong hands can cause months of lost time regaining trust.

I would bet he will be worth all the time you give him.
Consider it to be like an above average student...if you keep it boring....they don't learn...they get bored!
If you change things up..they start to pay more & more attention...that allows you to hold their interest if even for a short time....

Keep doing what you are doing... it won't take near as long as correcting mistakes by others!
You are "just getting started" on what could be a very long lived horse...so make it quality time...and by all means keep the "quick fixer wannabees" off your horse!

Remember...He's doing a bit better, more on somedays than others.

That is progress... he will come around... most important thing for you to do is don't lose your nerve...and keep at it.
BTW...bucking or threatening to buck is most certainly a punishable offense.... it would absolutley earn a punishing act from me...a real hard swat, and most likely on the hip that "threw the first hoof"...ONE swat for one action.
No need to get real aggressive.... if you even think he is going to buck..or pitch....give him a verbal warning...if he follows through with the pitch or buck...then get after him for it...

A lot of times you can avoid the horse following through by just snatching his head to the side...to your foot...put a bend in his spine and keep his head up...he won't be able to "do much".

I think he just doesn't believe in not getting his way. I believe you have his "number" already!

[First Paso]

Thanks Terry!

Your comments confirm my feelings. I don't think any good could come from trying to dominate my gelding. His attitude...I think he would rather die before being overpowered. When the barn folk start talking about him, I just want to say you don't know him. You don't get it, he's not like your horses...unfortunately they think I am the one that doesn't get it. To each their own, right?

I really do appreciate all of your help. I agree about the driving/long reins, unfortunately no one around here uses them...no one experienced to show me how, so I am on his back. He wont unnerve me, he's tried flying with me on him, I stayed with him. He really doesn't do it like he did when I first got him, no its just disgruntleness (is that a word?). We circle and he stops. He always lets me know he's not pleased with the situation.

Even with all that he is such a wonderful creature. I know how big his heart is, I just need to get it to be mine. I enjoy our moments together, good and bad. I feel more impowered now, knowing things to adjust his behavior, tools to make us a better team. We'll figure it out.

We're walking better. He seems more focused...perhaps he has come to accept the stud, perhaps its from applying all the suggestions. We made it around the areana at a walk. :D I wanted to try some of the suggestions before reposting our progress, to see how it would go.

Thank you again.

[Terry Wallace]

You are quite welcome and I'm glad to hear its working.

This is exactly WHY I never get in a hurry with horse training....when people say..."I need to be able to ride him in 45 days" ...and they want to bring me a 3 or 4 year old untouched by human hands.... I decline that horse! Life is too short for giving human time frames when it comes to "horse learning curves"...and that is not even considering how fearful a horse can be by being pulled from its pasture and deposited on a trainer's doorstep...

I think this says it all...
His attitude...I think he would rather die before being overpowered.

You better believe it! The smarter they are...the worse it can be, so "don't GO there"....


To each their own, right?
RIGHT....and don't dwell on it!

He always lets me know he's not pleased with the situation.
This too shall pass..... Who knows what all he has or has not been through.... you will really never know...so just stay with it and show him you ARE the "way"...you are the "keeper"..of the trust, of the feed of the petting and atta boys....and GOOD things.

It truly takes a YEAR to establish this with many horses.
I don't think its too long to ask either....for the many years you will get back in "partnership" and mutual trust.

Consistancy will pay in the end...who knows how many people have taken a hard hand with him....all he has to learn..is that its NOT you. Its way better to earn that trust by taking time than to insist on him not ever making a bad move and punishing for it every step of the way.

Just keep at it..be patient...oh yeah..and report back with progress as well as stumbling blocks! Lots of people here have many a good idea to share.

[CarolU]

I would say that punishing this horse is absolutely the last thing you should do. Horses don't respond to punishment. He's always been rewarded for gaiting before, so you'd be punishing him for what he was bred and trained to do...and he would have no clue he was being punished...only that you were being mean for no reason.

You have to remember that this horse was bred to MOVE and he's only doing exactly what he was bred to do. Not to mention that undoubtedly he was kept moving and never taught to flat walk. Gait is so easy to ride, most people just let the horse gait, gait, gait. And there are those people who start gaiting the second their butt hits the saddle, gait through the whole ride, and stop and get off. Never walking.

There are several exercises you can do for impulsive horses (small circles, point to point) but the very best is Tit for Tat. Every time the horse breaks gait out of walk you correct him, and correct as big as it takes. Some horses respond with just a half halt. Some with a one-rein stop to relax and walk out again. Others to a stop and 180 degree turn and walk out again. Don't babysit him (hold him in) and wait until he makes the mistake before you correct him. Always stay relaxed, always stay calm and take the time it takes to fix your problem now, so it stays fixed.

He's breaking into gait because of adrenalin. Anything you do that causes more adrenalin (like punishment) is going to make it worse.

[motorgypsy]

What we did that initially caused problems was overcue. We had no idea after years with QH's and paint and even Arabians that these guys would be so sensitive so make your cues as light as possible, then increase if necessary.

They most definitely believe they are royalty and you do have to prove your worthiness.

If he even thinks of bucking the "DON'T YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT IT" yell and maybe even a pinch on the withers to get his attention or a sharp turn or a back and forth will let him know that you're up there and that this is NOT acceptable behavior. But they also thrive on reward when they are good and it's amazing how much difference a few carrot slices make. There's a story on another paso fino site about Resorte IV, a famous paso fino stallion and his trainer and the trainer said he was unridiable so he used to just go down to his paddock and feed him carrots and little by little he would allow the trainer to ride him.

We have another mare that we were told was a total spookhead. I usually carry carrot slices and give one for coming and one after bitting and tightening the cinch from the first time I tried her at her broker's farm. Well she was always fantastic for me. BUT I didn't think about the carrots and two times I rode her after a bit of a layoff she was totally wired. I couldn't figure it out. Same saddle and everything. The last time I remembered the carrot slices. One for coming and one after tacking. No more. She was a total angel the entire ride - relaxed and happy. I guess she just doesn't work for FREE:biggrin::confused:

They do have their ways and they do expect us to figure them out - and we do - eventually - and we can just hear them say "It's about time - you sure are a slow learner!";) And from then on they're a great partner and quite happy to haul us around to anything we want to do. Go figure!?

[First Paso]

He knows everything. Yep, he's been paying attention while duitifuly ignoring all my cues this whole time. I went to a mock show with the barn, just a friendly get together at a different areana. Lo and behold my little man was a perfect little gent.

Yep, not refusals, no kick outs, no bucks, none of his testing. He just did what was asked, mind you he circled around the ever frustratingly slow western pleasure hores at a walk, and at trot with his corto. I sat out for the loping. I don't think we are consistant enough with the gates to pop into a lope. I read that I should only lope/canter from standing postion anyways.

We even walked out in the ajoining "parking lot/ feild" all alone and checked the fence line. The areana club guys were watering down the sand for a play day for the following day too! No problem with a full on fireman hose blowing water about. He did splendidly...so at the barn, at home he just thinks he's all that I suppose.

I was happy with his confidence in me, and I was more than tickled with his behavior. Maybe he just wants to keep the rides at home interesting, I don't know, but all the advice you guys have been giving me paid off. He knew what to do. Two days after went riding again at the barn, LOL he tested me a couple of times, but I think we have it figured out.

Can you tell I love my little man? He may not big, but he is all soul. Oh yeah and there is alot less to brush compared to some of those big quarters. :D

[motorgypsy]

I'm telling you - they show off for their friends at home just like kids. Take them away from that and they're angels. I do like to take one other horse they know on the trips away - just for security - but I've always been amazed at how much better they are away from home.

As far as cantering the main thing is to use a cue so different from the cues for gait that there is no way he'll ever confuse the two. The two horses we're training right now who've only been ridden four or five times have no problem at all giving the canter and gait on cue because for canter we lean forward, use fairly loose rein with a slight pull out then into the center of the circle and just give a big allover body cue and even a loud vocal cue to canter. You can give the QH tap behind the girth also. And if they go into canter from gait without a cue you take them back into gait and if necessary back to walk before cantering. They catch on very easily though. The problem I have is getting them to slow down. They tend to want to gallop or pronk in some cases rather than canter. For the gait cue we actually lift on the reins and sit more deeply in the saddle. So it's a really different cue for canter.

[First Paso]

Good to know on the canter. I just worry that will be all he wants to do! LOL He likes the idea of speeding. He has a lovely smooth one, I have had hints of it from him. You know when he thought he could get away with breaking out of gate to go even faster. I will give him the diferent cue then. I have distinct reign position for his walk, verse gates, as with seat positons come to think of it...so again it all makes sense! Thanks.

So its normal for the beasties to behave like angels when far from home? How funny is that. They run the quarters to death before riding them to get the "kinks out", and the hellion paso is just as perfect and calm as can be out of the trailer. It was fun, and made me feel so proud of the little guy. Can you tell? Thanks for the canter insight. I learn something new everytime I visit this site. :biggrin:

[Pasomom]

Hi First Paso,

I just wanted to add a little bit of advise also. My trainer always told me that during a training session, when your horse is doing what you ask consistantly, get off and take him back to the barn -- you're done. Reward him for doing everything correctly. They get really frustrated, when you work one thing over and over again, especially if they are doing it right.

Sometimes, I would only ride my horse 15 minutes, when she did everything I asked perfectly. Or if you have access, take a little pleasure ride for 15 minutes or so. Let him relax away from "work" when he has performed well. Just like you did at the little show...you rode him out in the parking lot. Let him relax.

I think you have a tremendous amount of good information here, and you are implementing it well. You and your boy will be bonded best friends in short order. Just be consistant! The more often you can ride, the better. Short rides are just fine.

[First Paso]

Thanks Pasomom,
I always enjoy hearing people confirm some of things I do are right! LOL I figure the better we're doing, the less work we need to do. It's all about quality. So after a couple of rounds in the areana out to a pleasure ride in the pasture!
I have to agree about them getting frustrated. LOL He has no patience when it comes to not getting his way, or being bored. If he does get bored that over active mind figures out ways to make it interesting, which isn't the best thing in the world.
The barn folk believe on riding their quarters for at least an hour, round and round they go. My little man couldn't handle that, I don't think I could either, at least not at their pace. I am so glad to hear that's normal for Pasos. Thanks for letting me know I really am not a freak, and neither is my horse.

[motorgypsy]

Oh do they get bored easily with arena work, BUT they are so much fun to dance with. Get some music with a good beat (latin is great but not the only stuff they like), take your boom box or park your car near the arena, turn that music up and just have fun on their back and on the ground both. We also dance with two horses and two riders. Consider the arena a dance floor for horses and it's no long boring for them.

Yes they are horses just as are QH's, but then Kias and Ferraris are both cars too:biggrin:

They are also great to play games from. We used to play catch with tennis balls and four horses and riders at a full gallop. It was hilarious. We packed saddle bags full of old tennis balls and rode around the arena throwing them to each other. We had timeout when we ran out of balls and everyone got off and picked them up and started up again. We used to play dodge ball but some of our guys hated getting hit so we were very careful not to hit the horses after that. We'd rather overthrow and miss than hit a horse that objected (like Chinnok - she hated getting hit and let me know - I got the evil eye from her)

[First Paso]

I want to come hang out at your barn! :mecry:

Sounds like so much fun. I want to play games and dance. I have been trying to get the people at the barn to play soccer, but alas no one seems that thrilled with the idea. One of the ladies doesn't like anyone near her...like anywhere near her which makes her showing pleasure a bit more difficult, she doesn't like to be crowded, so no games for her. Maybe I could work on them some more, tell them it will help with balance or something.

Any games for solo horses? I will try the radio. I like that idea.

Thanks!

[motorgypsy]

Game for solo horses HMMMM - I bet if you put up a small section of privacy fence you could do a horsey racquet type ball hitting the ball off the wall. Maybe use a nerf basket ball???

and actually you could put up a nerf basket ball goal and play horsey basketball by yourself.

My dream is to travel around and find a boarding barn with a lot of people who just love to "play" on their horses - games, obstacle courses, just have fun - lease some land next door, board two horses with them - and just have a great old time!:biggrin:

the kids we played all the games with have grown up or moved and the new kids just want to go around in circles on great big horses and look pretty and take lessons and go to shows. They are soooo boring. They can no more handle a horse than they can drive a racecar.

The only people we see who are really good riders are at our monthly speed show events - the geezers and the kids who live on the larger farms with a lot of horses can still really ride. We're looking forward to the show season starting at the end of this month. (Summer is just toooo hot here) They have the "look pretty" classes during the day and the speed events at night when it's cooler.