About Juan Juan

[PasoPal]

Anybody have pictures and/or information to share about the late Juan Juan?
:)

[Terry Wallace]

I have a photo I can email you...I cannot post it here because I did not take the photo. PM me if you want it.

Personally I don't care for the line that we have here.
I know some people like it, but my experience with three of Juan Juan line horses was that the disposition was lacking, the horses don't particularily like to work and having that bad disposition in the stallions, the biting, the ears back nasty attitudes, very flighty, etc...I just would not want to perpetuate that kind of "mind".

There are a couple of stallions here direct descendants and one has real good gait, the other doesn't. One has a very nasty attitude, He likes to bite, he likes to threaten people,he has gone after people particularily in his stall, he has a fallen crest (a genetic fault I cannot over look) and he is sure not a horse I'd breed to. Both have coon footed confo. The other also has a genetic fault I'm not going to mention here. Both are "hotter"natured than most people want. I don't blame it ALL on Juan Juan, there are mares (dams) to be considered...but there are just better horses to breed to...JMO

I know there are people on this BB that have worked with Juan Juans and in particular the nasty attitude one...so maybe they will have something to say.
IMO...the Juan Juan line did help to bring some dilute colors in horses. He looked to have good size...I never met Juan Juan himself....only a son and a grandson and some granddaughters. The one granddaughter is a very nice mare... I've not ridden her though.
Helene has a granddaughter she really likes...they aren't "all bad"...but I'd sure be careful breeding to that line. JMO.....

Oh and Jan K..had a Juan Juan daughter I think...she loved her....maybe Jan will comment.

[jan k]

Hi Terry!

Yes I still have my Juan Juan mare, La Nanne de Tomaria. She is an '86 model and still going strong. I've owned her since she was 2. Nanne has had 9 foals and I have raised 6 of them and she was leased for 3 others. She will live with me forever.

I currently own 2 of her sons and 1 of her daughters. I wouldn't say they were good horses for beginners, but an intermediate rider can have a lot of fun on them. They have a lot of energy and it can get the better of them sometimes. Mine have all been well gaited with the exception of one mare.

You do have to watch who you breed to, but you do with a lot of lines. We have only had 1 "mean" colt and he has made a nice horse after gelding. La Nanne had 2 exceptional performance fillies and and a couple of nice show/pleasure geldings. Overall, I like the fillies better than the colts.

I can't speak for all the other Juan Juan offspring, but I have really enjoyed mine.

Jan

[Terry Wallace]

Jan...who is La Nanne's dam?

[jan k]

Mario's Delight de Tomaria (Faldero que tal x Sombra Tomaria)

[Terry Wallace]

Wowser...I love her lines..love those Que tal horses.
And Guala... again..Wowser!

[jan k]

This is a picture of La Nanne at 20. She is the same color as Juan Juan. Hope she looks as good as he did at 30 <g>

[CarolU]

I have two Juan Juan granddaughters, Bien and Rosie. They both also have double Hilaches and Bien has double Eblis. I've taken Rosie almost through Level 3 Parelli...she's a dream, but does have a temper.

I love all my girls, but then I'm a MARE person.

Terry, I'd love a picture of him.

[jan k]

http://www.eltomaria.com/history_pagetomaria.htm

Carol, here is a link to Tomaria. They have pictures of Juan Juan, Faldero & Decius. A bit of history.

Jan

(I new I liked those 2 mares for some reason:D. They reminded me of my own)

[kteufel]

My mare is a Juan Juan granddaughter, through Tomaria's Gallardo. http://www.pasoregistry.com/db/Tree.asp?SearchType=1

It's hard to say when something is learned or inherited. Nena can be sweet and easy going, but she has an impatient side to her and seems to be one of those horses that will fight you if you try to MAKE her do something she doesn't want to do. Slow down, take your time, and find another way to make her come around, and she's fine. That might just be part of being a mare, too. A lot of mares are like that.

You definitely need to be a firm, fair, friendly "leader" with her, or she quickly becomes spoiled and insecure. But, she seems to want to cooperate in general once she's bonded.

She has mediocre gait--tends to be a bit trocha and has very little extension/largo. She is fairly smooth. If she's in a hurry to get home from a trail ride, she does a cute little fino-esque gait.

She is quite large for a Paso, and not what I would call "hot". I've even had to use short spurs from time to time to get her to respect my leg.

I have to say, that if I were to go out and buy a Paso today, she wouldn't be my first choice--mostly because I'd like more extension in the gait--but I love her and plan on keeping her forever. I sold her once and ended up buying her back, and she's just so quirky that I've just decided we're stuck together.

She's also incredibly accident prone! And ONLY if I haven't been out to the barn in a few days. I think she's just punishing me--she knows if she gets a nice big boo-boo that I'll HAVE to come out every day and doctor it. That's probably not Juan Juan's fault, though ;)

Here's some pics

[Terry Wallace]

It's hard to say when something is learned or inherited.

I don't think its that hard.....it depends...if you see the same thing over & over again on horses from the same line...it gets much clearer.

The Juan Juan grandson I had here, had him for 1-1/2 years...he was a rescue horse I got in Colorado.
he was huge like his father, he had a "pretty good" attitude after I worked with him for a while...he was another one that had coon feet and sheared heels...took me a year of corrective work to get him "good".
This horse was being sold as a "fabulous breeding stallion prospect"...one look at him said otherwise....I had him gelded the first week he was here. No need to add to the already overflowing "mediocre stallion" supply.

She has mediocre gait--tends to be a bit trocha This was true of him too...in fact he was so big...he was "gangly"..but had good extension.

I remember your mare well..she was very trocha here too when she was at J.B.'s in Fountain. I just think there are too many faults in the ones I've seen here...from bad feet to bad mouths (bites) to nasty attitudes. Just something I would not want to breed...not want to perpetuate.
I breed for trail, sound minds, sound bodies, good confo.
I need that horse to be dependable and have a good work ethic. JMO...

[PattiB]

Apache de Ventura is a Juan Juan son I trained. He was awesome, powerful, quick, great gait. He was pretty easy to train but soured in the show arena after he took third in A/O Performance 4 yr colts at Nationals. He learned to blow off the rail with Gary and it was always a battle to keep him on going to the right. He still is ridden on trails and when Lewis Godby had him he worked cattle with him. As long as you don't want to show he was so much fun to ride. All his offspring have been pretty laid back, we even bred him to the hottest mares but they were all trail horses no show horses. I personally like the Juan Juan bloodlines but then again I like Carmin too!

[sporthorse]

It should be said here that Juan Juan's lines Tomaria bred "Cabo" from Colorado now has completed more than a couple 100 mile single day AERC rides including The Tevis Cup Western States (endurance)Trail Ride(over the infamous Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevadas)and also top tenned the often said harder 100 mile single day Big Horn near Yellowsone in Montana.
http://www.doublejoy.com/erol/RideResults/rrReport.asp?distanceID=13615
Cabo (AERC#:H40582) AKA Tomaria's Juan Luis



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ride Summary
Overall LD 100s points
season miles rides comps BCs miles starts comps overall division
2006 250 6 5 0 0 0 0 340 490
2007 200 2 2 0 0 2 2 420 600
2008 250 5 4 0 0 2 1 315 540
recorded 700 13 11 0 0 4 3

http://www.pasoregistry.com/db/Tree.asp?ID=89112

[Helene]

I have two Juan Juan granddaughters here. Intrepida is my all-time favorite mare. And Tesora is turning out to be real nice, too.

I've had Intrepida for 13 years now and she has been wonderful. Smart, affectionate, and very even-tempered. She has a nice gait when she isn't overweight (she is an extremely easy keeper). Not nervous, not disrepectful, not herdbound....the perfect horse for me.

I've had Tesora for only a couple of months and she is slowly winning my heart, too. She is the best-gaited horse here now. Even on pasture she moves in gait...always and I mean ALWAYS. I've only ridden her once, so far and she is very smooth. She seems very affectionate, too.

Then, there is Juanita Trece, the nicest mare I know (despite of her owner). Well-gaited, smooth, and wonderful horse all around. Katera, Enduro, Sombra are all very nice. Blanco is well gaited and a very mellow fellow despite, again, of his owner. He sure puts up with a lot.

[PasoPal]

This is my Juan Juan granddaughter, out of Apache de Ventura. I have owned her since she was a yearling and she is now 13 years old. I will never sell her, one because she was my first horse, and 2 because yes she does have a bit of a temper but boy did she teach me patience because of it. I would call it spirit myself because although it took me a long time to learn and teach her, she has given me her heart and will go wherever I ask, all day if I need her to.
She has been my herd leader, always and as a mother 3 times, she has been nothing but great. All 3 of her offspring have been well gaited, hitting the groung gaiting. I have kept one of her 3 offspring, a graying dun daughter, who is a coming 4 year old next year and will be one to carry on her genes to future offspring. Anybody, even strangers can approach her offspring at 1 day old or 4 months old. She even helps me catch them when I need to by herding them towards me when she knows I am going to catch them. I am grateful to have her as she has been a great ambassador for this breed by being introduced to many, many children and non horsey people. She has given rides to countless horse and non horse people, everybody delighted from the experience. Never have shown her, but she has been on many camping trips, a few parades (wowing the crowds and people cheering and clapping as we go by) and many countless miles on the roads and trails of Colorado. :v:

[Carol Nelson]

Wow...nice mare! Reminds me of my Bun-Bun! :biggrin:

[kteufel]

Terry, that's interesting you should mention the sheared heels--Nena has had chronic issues with sheared heels in her hind feet, and her front feet would do it, too, if you let them. Though she doesn't show "coon footed" conformation. Only now have we really started to make good headway on her rear feet--they are almost normal now. A lot of my previous trimmers didn't know how to deal with it, but I've got a good hoof care provider now.

I should clarify that meant that it's hard for ME to tell when something about Nena is learned or inherited, since I don't know what sort of early training/handling Nena got, I can't say for sure if a certain attitude or behavior problem is due to poor training/past experience or just her nature. It's much easier when you raised the animal yourself, know the parents/grandparents and see a variety of offspring/relatives.

[PasoPal]

This is a great granddaughter of Juan Juan, daughter of my palomino mare in the previous pictures. First 2 pictures, she is a yearling, last two pictures she is 3 years old being ponied through the McDonald's drive through while on a trail ride last summer. Got thirsty! HaHa :v:

[PattiB]

Who is the dam of your mare? Apache was awesome in the American Royal parade! I rode him with a costume a couple of times and he carried the flag several other times. Always an eye catcher up front with his dancing feet!

[PasoPal]

My palomino mare's dam is Azaya del Pasador, a Lunares daughter. The palomino's daughter, in the other pictures, sire is Cafetero del Guao a grandson of Bochica and Tormento.
I wonder what stallion out there would be a good cross for her daughter? Juan Juan, Resorte 4, Lunares, Dorotea de Prodeca and Coral LaCe on bottom, with Bochica, Tormento and double Chucuano on top. Any ideas?

[PasoPal]

Here is a 2 1/2 year old Juan Juan grandson I picked up recently. I may keep him as a future stallion. So far, his ground training is going excellent. He is quite smart and picks up on training quickly and easily. I have the saddle on him in one of the pictures but won't ride until he is 3, and then only lightly. How does his conformation look? I don't see any coon-footedness in his conformation. He is 14 hands right now. I wonder what he will top out at when full grown. At least 14.2 hands I hope. Any ideas?
Any comments would be appreciated! Thank you. :)

[Terry Wallace]

Got any better shots of legs/feet not in snow and as a side view?

He looks to be axis broken forward on both front feet, a side shot would show if there is "coon foot"...looks like there could be, but 3/4 photos don't show enough.
The first photo is what I'm going off of.
I would not ride him yet either as his knees look "open" still. How many months old is he exactly?

He has sickle hocks, and kind of a pointy rear instead of "round". Shoulder looks good...nice angle.

It would be better to take a full side photo of each side (legs together) a front and a back photo for leg confo. Please include chest and hips on front & rear photo (or all of the horse...)

His color is gorgeous and I love those dapples...I bet he looks like a million in the summer sun...with summer coat.

[Terry Wallace]

At least 14.2 hands I hope.

to get an idea....put a string test on him...

Take a piece of string and get the measurement from point of elbow to point of fetlock/ergot. Hold your string at the elbow and take the string up to his wither keeping the measurement you got from elbow to ergot. Where that measurement ends up above his wither is right at how tall he will be. Most horses grow as tall as they are "deep".

In other words....their finished leg length from ergot to elbow, is the same distance it is from chest floor to top of wither ..the "heartgirth".

Just eyeballing his pic..I'd say it looks like he will be 14.2HH.