Breeding questions!!

[PasoPerson38]

For all of you who manage breedings I have a quick questoin. Do you agree that you should use a "breeding" halter when breeding your stallions? By breeding halter I mean, a halter that is made of a material that he will only use when being bred....such as leather, nylon, or rope.
Also one more....if you have a trainer riding a stallion, I have heard that they should not be present when the stallion is being bred, so the stallion knows not to associate the rider with breeding...how do you feel about these two ideas toward breeding?

[appyday]

Yep..I only use a chain and carry a dressage whip when I am going to breed...he knows...walk him out of the barn with just a halter and lead he is ok..put a chain on him and carry a whip and let him see the mare waiting and he gets so happy.... :lol:

[Terry Wallace]

Yes..I have a "dedicated" halter for breeding.
No, I don't agree about the trainer...since I AM the trainer, owner, breeder...

Besides...generally horses are smarter than that...they know the difference between breed time & ride time & feed time & grooming time.

[Carol Nelson]

Yes, a stud chain over the nose is recommended...it attaches directly to the halter or you can have one with it's own separate lead. We have never had to use one with Red, in fact, now he breeds in a halter.
However, we did learn an unpleasant thing not long ago with him. We had bred him for a couple of years, and then went to ride him last fall. The moment we put the bit in his mouth (he had been broke to ride and rode well in a light snaffle bit...he had been professionally trained)...the moment he felt the bit, he pumped up, got a tremendous erection, and became Mr. Studly. We were dumbfounded...he'd never rode like this before.
Come to find out, the woman who ran the breeding barn we took him to had most likely put a chain in his mouth to breed him...that angered me because you did not need a chain in this stallion's mouth to breed him. We had bred him live cover using only a halter and the stud chain across his nose, which we never had to resort to jerking on.
I confronted her with it, and while she didn't admit it, she stumbled all over herself for a bit. I suppose that's part of the reason we decided to go into AI breeding ourselves. That and a lot of other things I visually observed myself.
As far as the trainer breeding him, here too, we are chief cook, cleaner, and bottle washer...in that we do all our own handling and training. The stud chain or separate halter is sufficient. The horse soon knows what you intend for him to do that day.

[PasoPerson38]

Thanks for all the help guys!
My trainer is a pro. with breeding, but I am new with the breeding aspect of stallion. She is passing all her info to me and of course she will assist me when we start breeding my boy.
Thanks guys for the great tips! ;-) :D

[SandyMM]

No chain for Emi. Just a different halter that has a smooth braided noseband.

[Terry Wallace]

No chains on my studs either.... ;-)

[stella]

An experienced stallion may not need a chain on the nose, but for an outside mare you dont know- for the safety not just of the mare, but the stallion and mare handler, a chain will get a stallion out of the way much faster, if their are problems. Plus, I feel an obligation to take more precautions with outside breedings in caring for other's mares. An ounce of prevention.......

[appyday]

I probably dont need one on Vence either but I wanted him to know the difference...and I wanted control. He had only bred one mare befor I bred him so I wanted to have him the way I wanted him..I use the dressage whip to tap him on his chest to back him off if he approaches the mare before I am ready to let him...

[Carol Nelson]

Agree, Stella...I should clarify my statement earlier that Red doesn't breed with a chain anymore...we only breed him AI now. We do still have the chain on in case things get out of hand going to the dummy.
Definitely do agree the chain should be used when breeding mares, especially outside ones.

Got to reinforce here too, we love our stallions, but we've got to remember that however gentle they are in the stall or under saddle, they are still stallions, and it only takes one time for us or them to be severely injured.

[PasoPerson38]

So true Carol!
How does the dummy for AI work? Do you have a mare is heat stand by so that the stallion knows what he needs to do?
Also what are your guys opinions on Breeding Hobbles?

[cowboy ed]

no, i dont think you need a specific halter that you only use on the stallion when he is breeding. i just grab the first rope halter i see and use that on my stallion. he is very easy to handle. i take my training stick with me when i handle him around the mare, not because he is bad, but because i use the stick to cue him when it is time to mount. i just touch him lightly on the side with when the timing is right, and he goes right to work.

i also agree with terry. it shouldnt make any difference if the trainer is around or not. i am the trainer too. if the stallion has been taught well, and handled well, it shouldnt matter.

[Carol Nelson]

PasoPerson, here's a photo of our breeding dock:

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/36931brdgdock.JPG.jpg

A good amount of planning went into this to get it just right. The dummy is placed about 36 inches away from the wall of the adjacent stall. The stallion is led in through the double doors to the rear of the dock which slide totally out of the way. The mare is tied in the stall with her head towards the front of the dummy so the stallion can see and smell her. Now Red only requires she be tied in the stall...he comes into the space between the dummy and the stall wall, smells her, romances her and when he gets an erection, he is guided back again to the rear of the dummy which has mare urine either fresh from this mare or previously frozen sprayed all over it. He then mounts the dummy, his semen is collected, and he is pulled off the dummy and taken back to his stall. Now if a stallion has never mounted a phantom before, the mare can be put in the space between the dummy and the wall, and taken out when the stallion achieves an erection. The dummy is padded so that neither horse can hurt itself, and the floor is covered with rubber mats for traction.
The semen is then taken across to the lab and analyzed for semen motility and content, and then either prepared for shipping or direct insemination into the mare. The mare is brought out of the stall, put into the stocks, inseminated and taken back to her stall or pasture. :smile:

Here you can see that there is a fair amount of room between the dummy and the wall so the stallion or a mare can get into the space, but not so far away that the stallion loses interest or forgets why he's there. ;-)

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/36931breedingdock.JPG

The lab is directly across the aisle for easy access. There are also hot and cold water hookups for easy cleaning of both mare and stallion, and the breeding dock in general. There is a drain in the floor.

[appyday]

BEAUTIFUL set up Carol

[Carol Nelson]

Thanks Shelley! I'm waiting anxiously for Heidi's cowhide she's sending me. Then I will buy some of that waffle sided foam that they use on convelescent patient's beds...and wrap that around the dummy, and then Heidi's hide (does that sound funny??? :lol: ) will be stretched over that. You want a fair amount of padding on the dummy as sometimes the stallion can come down rather hard on it...but not so much as to make it too wide for him.
At the breeding barn we previously used, she had her dummy padded way too heavy and wide for Red (she bred large QH). She couldn't figure out why he was starting to object to mounting it, until we realized that when he came down on it, he hurt himself...so much so that one time we had to take him from the breeding barn to the vet for some treatments on his shoulder and chest. :roll:

[appyday]

When I helped AI at a nearby farm the dummy was just smoothe..

[Carol Nelson]

Oh this will be smooth, much smoother than the cover on it right now. I just feel this one is too hard the way it is.
The woman that had the other dummy we used had wrapped 2 MATTRESSES around a barrel...It was a big honkin' son of a gun...no problem for her large Palomino and Paint stallions, but Red thought he was breeding a Clydesdale! ;-)
The reason you have to be careful with these dummies is that there's no give to them like there is to a real mare.

[Carol Nelson]

Yay, Heidi came through for me...the cowhide came today!!! It's perfect! Will post pictures when we get Phantasia "dressed"!

[PasoPerson38]

Carol GREAT INFORMATION! And what a GREAT set up you have! The lab is only 10 feet away, that is so neat. lol I want to see a picture of the dummy dressed! :bsmile
Thanks again guys for the wonderful info.