RR's posts and general politics

[moonrize]

I think it's a nice memorial that Rhonda is posting of each of the service men/women who have died for our country.

Although I don't like Bush or support his choice in pushing the US into a war we didn't need, I FULLY support our service men/women who are fighting for us and our concept of freedom. They put their lives on the line daily for us and our country. And though I don't think they should be over there fighting a war that our president started, I SUPPORT THEM, 100%.

So Rhonda, keep posting. The rest of us will keep hoping and praying to our God that the war will be over soon and that our friends and family will make it home safely.

[cowboy ed]

excellent post, sally. just goes to show that someone can have an opinion and share it, without being rude.

thats the key, folks. be you, be different, but be polite about it.

cowboy ed

[Pasogirlz]

thats the key, folks. be you, be different, but be polite about it.

cowboy ed

Very well said Ed. ;-)

[Pasomom]

Well done everyone! Thanks

[Blameitonbrio]

Great post Sally. Thanks! Opinions on the war can be separated from our gratitude to the elisted folks.

[sherry k t]

RR, thanks so much for sharing these Heros pictures and Bios!! Where do you get their pictures and bios from? We are so fortunate to have these people stand up for us!!!!!!!! KEEP SHARING PLEASE!!
Sherry (spent 4 years active duty in the Navy and 2 years Navy reserves)

[NAtlanta]

I am posting this part here as I believe it is better suited here than over at the memorial:


To the political I would just add that my cousin has served in the Green Berets under three presidents and has been sent out in harms way by all three of those Presidents. Arguements can be made for or against every "war" we have seen him sent out to fight. I did not support President Clinton in many ways and never did vote for him, but when he sent our boys/girls out I never questioned his reasons nor the fact that he sent them in harms way. One mission my cousin served under President Clinton was more questionable than what President Bush is doing now, yet if my cousin had died I would not have blamed the President and his decision.

I believe that we need to stop and really consider if we are consistent on those "wars" that we support and those we don't. I question those who only question the leadership when it is not "their" party in office.

I don't necessarily want to get into a political discussion here, but I really do think that what James Madison had to say is very relevant today:

There are two passions which have a powerful influence on the affairs of men. These are ambition and aravice; the love of power and the love of money. Separately, each of these has great force in the prompting of men to action; but when united in view of the same object, they have in many minds the most violent effects. Place before the eyes of such men a post of honor, that shall be at the same time a place of profit, and they will move heaven and earth to obtain it. James Madison 1787

I think our government has gotten to a point today where BOTH parties are equally guilty of seeking power and money. Bad decisions and blind party loyalties are found on both sides. I think that those who believe the only reasons we went to war was about the oil and Saddam are just as narrow minded as those who believe our government did not ever consider American interests other than 9/11. The people of this nation are following behind either party blindly only looking at the information put out by "their" sides. We are guilty of assuming that one or the other party has "our best interest" at heart. The truth is that there are many in both parties who are only about the power and the money. I also believe that we are sometimes blinded by the media and are willing to just "accept" the news being sent out. I have heard from many, many soilders that there is so much more good going on than the doom and gloom that we are hearing.

I would hope that as we put forth our beliefs that we don't just look at our side but really try to see the full picture. Do I agree with the one party all the time? No I don't. I am smart enough and determined enough to seek out the person who best represents what I believe and I vote for that person... sometimes that is a Republican, sometimes a Democrat and sometimes an independent.

I am thankful for every veteran who has passed away in the line of duty, they never die in vain, EVER!!!! We the people are the ones who see things through those eyes. To me dying in vain is a child who has been murdered by a monster we should have put away years ago, not a man or woman who is serving his/her country and honoring the commitment they have made.

Our military men and women and really everyone in our country are better served when we at home put down the weapons of closed minds, stinging criticism, hateful attitudes and try to talk together, listening to each other in order to get to a meeting ground where we can all walk forward united.

[cowboy ed]

thank you! now that was worth reading!

[Pasomom]

Holy Cow! VERY VERY WELL SAID NAtlanta!

I couldn't agree with you more. !
Thank you for your eloquence of speech

Thank you! :!:

[moonrize]

Good comments NAtlanta. I was hoping to open an avenue of conversation here that could be civil yet let each of us state our feelings.

I felt compelled to say something since I find the death of someone in fighting for our country very sad and heroic., regardless of my political affliations, religious preferences, age, sex, or handicap.

[Pam M]

Bravo NAtlanta!! Very well spoken and I, for one, agree with everything you said. My husband's nephew recently got back from serving in Iraq with a national guard unit. He also served in Bosnia with the regular army. When he was visiting he told my father - an adamant opponent of the war and the president - that he felt very strongly we were doing the right thing and he was proud to be serving. He is not some gung-ho crazy kid. He's got a grown man with a college degree and a six figure job, which he left without complaint when called. He didn't like it but you'll never hear him sitting around just complaining. People like that are the true heroes of this country - not the rap stars and the baseball players, who earn millions and give back only a fraction of what the teachers, firefighters and military give every day.

For those who worry about our people who die...what about this? Each day in the United States, more than 4 children die as a result of child abuse in the home. (http://www.childhelpusa.org/abuseinfo_stats.htm)

We would all be doing more good if we spent less time pointing fingers and laying blame and more time doing something about saving the lives of those who really do die needlessly.

[andrea]

Pam, I agree with you there. I have a grandaughter (3) that has had 15 black eyes, brusies all over her body, hand marks on her back and red prints around her neck , also had to have pins put into her pulled out of socket elbow. We have spent 15,000 so far in lawyer fees to try and help this little girl. My son, my husband and I have this child 75 % of the time. Now they are trying to give the mother more time. We have called child protection many times for them to come out and show them a black eye. They never came out. Child went in child protection and told them mommy hits her in the face. And that mommy gave her the black eyes. A Ymca teacher saw her jerk the child around by the arm and slap her into the face twice. Called the police and they said it was a discipline problem. This child screams when she sees her mother and falls to the ground. Sorry but I would love to go up and slap mother into the face but you know I would probably get a battery charge or something on me. But the mother can do this to a defenceless 3 year old child. The children protection here stinks and so does the court system. You wonder why there are so many children dying of child abuse. We wonder when this child leaves and goes with her mother if we will get a call that she has fallen down the stairs and is dead. Fallen? Or thrown? No one would ever know. This is the worst thing that has ever happened in my life. May sleepless nights . We have gone thru 4 lawyers trying to get something done. Blackeyes are caused from the toys. I don't think so. As you can tell I am very upset about this and could go on and on so will stop here. But we will keep trying to help her.

[Terry Wallace]

Andrea...how very sad... I hope you are photo-documenting everything for this child. Never give up, and keep good records.... "mom's" day WILL come....

I'm a firm believer in what goes around comes around...

As for our troops ... I support them 100%. I don't question the "whys", I cannot change the "whys"... but you best believe that once a war starts, and our people are fighting it, they MUST have our SUPPORT, and not opinion on the why or wherefore.... JMO

[CarolU]

Well, I mirror the Motorgypsies here. I certainly support our troops 110%, in fact protecting those troops has been my life work. Most of them signed up in a different age to defend our country, many after 9-11 and our country was reelling in pain.

I supported the war in Afghanistan and think the Administration did a great job handling it, waiting a few months for Muslim emotions to die down, gave the Afghanies ample opportunity to turn Al Qiaida over for their crimes. And I was VERY happy when the Taliban refused and we could go in and end that oppressive theocratic horror. You don't see many Afghanies supporting insurgents. Most know they are better off.

But the war in Iraq, I have never supported, and was shell shocked when the American people and media went along blindly with the 'no reasons' we attacked a soverign country that never presented any form of threat to our country. Think about it, a democracy has never attacked and invaded another country before. Even when I too believed the Administration when it said Iraq had WMD, I didn't believe we had any excuse to attack them...they were never a threat to us and they had nothing to do with Al Qiada or 9-11. There were no terrorists in Iraq until we opened the borders to them.

Unlike Terry I consider it my patriotic - not just right, but duty - to critisize the government. The rest of the world looks at us the way we used to look at Russia, as a bullying bear. And they are absolutely right. No, I am not at all proud to be an American these days, and I don't know how, but I pray that we can again become the country of human rights and democratic principles that we used to be known for.

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

Roosevelt.

[Terry Wallace]

Carol..you can criticize all you want...for the little good it will do.
But certainly..if its how you feel..have at it...but don't be surprised if there are lots of people that don't agree with that approach.

I do not consider it my DUTY to criticize a government that makes life better than most any other country in the world...
Nor do I find it such an attitude to be conducive to troop support.

Thrash the govenment, but support the troops... the very government and people they are fighting for... Nope...don't think so...

JMO!
Happy Friday!!

[baileyholc]

I will share with you an embarrising time in my life with my youngest (12 now), 8 when it happened. I worked in a day care as a teacher for toddlers at the time. I was running late for work and still had to drop the girls off at school. My youngest refused to put on a pair of socks. She wanted to ware dress sandles. (normally I would let her but it was in the middle of January and it was cold.) I just wanted her to put on socks with the shoes. So I lost my temper and screamed "PUT ON THE D--- SHOES AND GET YOUR A-- IN THE CAR." She was in tears when she got to school. A teacher asked her what was wrong and she told her that "I hit her because she could not find any socks. " :shock: A sociel worker came to my work asked me about it ishued me an order to attend anger managment class once a week for six month. All this over a pair of socks. :-? Just a little misunderstanding. I did ask the teacher to call me for a conferance. :twisted:

andreaIf she is in daycare see if the daycare teacher will call the Social Worker. Couldn't hurt to try.

[Kerry W]

I don't think it's thrashing the government....just those individuals who've made these decisions...to put our men and women in harms way, based on poor information. They started revamping a war stragey for Iraq the minute Bush took office the first time...North Korea too...there are war plans for many countries "just in case". They've lied to the people time and again..sorry, I don't support those individuals either. Now perhaps if they were to tell the WHOLE truth...I might change my mind...but I don't think that would be likely, and I don't see them ever doing that. They manipulate through fear, in their case...it's terrorist threats. Fear is a very effective way to control people...ask Saddam Hussein.

I have to wonder if the Iraqi people WANT democracy...they don't seem to be embracing the concept on the whole, or the progress would be more forthcoming.

Hope our fine men and women are home soon! My gratitude for their sacrifices!

[CarolU]

Well right now Terry, I believe most Americans feel as I do, although I have to admit, I was very much in the minority in March 2003. If everyone blindly supported every President and believed that America can't make mistakes, we'd still be in Vietnam. I think Iraq is very much our new Vietnam, and although I would love to see some kind of 'victory' and a democracy there, I certainly can't see it happening. I used to believe, as the Motorgypsies do, that 'we broke it, now we have to fix it," (remember that before we attacked, Iraq had the largest thriving middle class and best infrastructure of shcools and hospitals of any Muslim country - I'm not claiming it was perfect, just the best in the region) but with the growing strength and resolve of the insurgents, I think the majority of Iraqi's are h@ll bent on a civil war, and weather it happens this year or next, it WILL happen the second the Americans leave. We're only delaying the inevetiable by staying - and costing lots of dollars and lots of lives.

Does anyone stop to think that if we had spent the nearing $300 billion that we have spent in Iraq, here in America instead, we could have secured our borders and seaports, replaced our aging highway system AND paid for complete health care for every American. How many MORE lives would that strategy have saved?

[Terry Wallace]

Oh Lord Carol..we would not "still be in Vietnam"...

You are entitled to your opinion... to me it is somewhat radical (thats my opinion)...

Lets not forget those men and women fighting for us that allows US to speak freeley and have such opinions...

Ever hear the phrase "United we STAND"?

[CarolU]

Terry, normally I would agree with you...but since Iraq never posed any threat to our freedom or freedom of speech or security or anything other then a small percentage of our oil supply, I do not see that our soldiers are fighting and dying for any good reason at all. JMHO

[Terry Wallace]

No problem....

I will remain in thought with NAtlanta..in that no soldier ever, ever dies in vain.

We can all sit here and say whatever we want, justify it (or not) however
you may.... but I would never say our troops are fighting for "no good reason".... I will say....we won't know the whole story on this for years if ever... we can speculate all we want. We can complain all we want...
BUT...for now, we are at war, and all the thrash talking in the world hasn't changed that...

JMO.... Heading outside now...Colorado is having a GOOD December day!
No Jacket required....so far... ;-)

[CarolU]

We had a good day YESTERDAY (of course, I was at work :-( ). Today it is raining in the valleys and snowing in the mountains and looks like it's determined to do this all day.

Had all the horses trimmed this morning. Sure glad I have a dry barn.

[Terry Wallace]

We *might* get snow tonight they say..I just hope it does not affect the parade tomorrow....or get too cold to where I can't take photos.....(because of my R/A)...

Since it is doing that in Utah..I guess it could shoot on over here.... but I hope it would hold off till Sunday.........

[motorgypsy]

Let's be careful now. Read up on the causes of world war I and II. During world war two the average German refused to believe the stories about the death camps and many other atrocites. They refused to believe anything negative about their government or their leader. We all know what happened. Criticism IS the basis of democracy. We are all united in hoping that everyone of our military personnel come home unharmed. We will never be united in our belief that our leaders or government can do no wrong. They are human beings and make mistakes and it is the goal of the people of the United States to act as watch dogs to be sure the country doesn't do something that we will be totally ashamed of in the future. With no criticism the wrong people can take control of the government and do things that completely counter the beliefs stated by our laws and espoused by our founding fathers. So argue as you wish with people who disagree but don't EVER argue with their right to disagree because without it we're just another dicatatorship.

Just some thoughts - We were brought up to believe in the ethic of the old western movies - you never shoot first - you only shoot in response to being shot at. Now suddenly we're invading a country that didn't shoot first because we were afraid they might shoot. A very different idea and a very dangerous one. Yes they did shoot first in Kuwait and we came in with guns blazing and sent the bad guys home. Good for us! You might want to read George Bush Srs. book telling why he didn't take out Sadaam when we were over there. But if you want to hit the governments that are the most dangerous in the world today Saudi Arabia is right on top with quite a few other really nasty governments or governments who don't prevent the really nasty people from operating in their country. It was their guys who took down the trade towers, not the Iraqis.

So we're over there because of bad intelligence. It doesn't really matter why we're over there. What matters is to get help from the rest of the world to stop the bad guys and help the Iraqis help themselves. May we as a country do the right thing and the best thing for us and the rest of the world. May love triumph over hate and may peace come soon to that very troubled part of the world.