MSM for cracking thin walls. any supplements? see msg

[sherry k t]

Hi all,
Know this has come up before did search and couldnt find what i needed so here I am:
I have a now turning 6 y/o TWH gelding who had heavy shoes on early in life and was headed to the ring til they said he didnt have enough reach to make it per the seller. he had been stalled most of his life. So brought him home as a young 3 and has been on flat regular shoes. went throgh a farrier the horse kept losing shoes and lots of his hoove so he has been an expensive lawn ornament for 3 years. new farriers have been working with him over a year now. hes been on bioten for a year, buckeye grow n win, source, boss, paprika plus alfafa hay. wormed/dental/vaccinations all UTD. Just had new shoes applied monday all hooves look lots better still have Rt Front hoove inside still needs lots of work, farrier says getting better all the time. I am now considering maybe starting MSM? How much do you feed? or changing Bioten supplement (been on Gen a horse 75mg for first couple months then 50 then 30mg for last 6 months. Total time on bioten over 1 year. I have 4 more months til big trip to CO this horse was suppose to go last 2 years and we didnt take him due to his hooves. I am hoping this is the year. he has such a great personality and I know hes going to be a great buddy once i can get this last hoove up to snuff. also am using keratex hoof hardener. farrier said all horses hooves *5 head) are dry like august. here i had been worried they had spent about 3 weeks in a muddy paddock til it dried up and froze, now they are to dry. so am going to start with the hoof sealant on all three times a week. probably tuff stuff its readily available here. SOrry so long any help greatly appreciated. this guy is alot closer but would like to see alot more improvement in next 20 weeks. Oh I also started him on hawthorn berries ground 1 0z daily to promote circulation and hoove growth recommended on farrier site. Farrier says hes good to ride so will ride once the weather cooperates so will see about getting him in shape and hope the hoof improves. thanks for your help. Sherry

[stella]

So, besides supplements, what are you feeding? It does take a full YEAR for feet go grow out with better quality, and thickness of walls is also in part, hereditary.
Its really better for the integrity of the hoof, to let his feet "rest" and have him barefoot awhile...is there some reason you keep him shod? If changing angles(they often have problems if the angles arent whats NATURAL to that individual)is the reason, well, its best to have him trimmed then, every 4 weeks or so, til its achieved....I've had some horses that almost need to be done that often anyway, their feet grow THAT fast(and that seems hereditary too).....but more often, horses with correct angles will wear evenly and need to be redone LESS often...often longer than 8 weeks, if unshod and ridden, or you have sand/etct type soil that helps abraid thru movement.
Or, after the rest....shoe him....but often if shoes wont stay on, its not usually THE HORSE....thats the problem.

[sherry k t]

Thanks Stella for your responce! the first 1 3/4 years I owned this horse I do believe the farrier was a big part of the problem, I continually lost shoes and most of the time a large portion of the hoove with it. He would "build" a new hoove and charge me $$$$. He of course was a big shot gaited shoer supposely knew his stuff. anyway got rid of him and now take him to 2 brother farriers that people bring their horses from all over. the other 4 horses hooves look tons better and this gelding 3 out of 4 hooves look alot better too. He does have a quarter crack and like you suggested on doing my searches on the net alot of people say quarter cracks are from unbalanced hoove hmmm. I left him shod due to farrier says he grows really slow on the quarters with thin walls and long toes, farrier was afraid foot would fall apart without shoes. now saying this this same farrier was very open with leaving the other 4 horses without shoes if we wanted and thought the horses would be fine. the farrier shoes per individuals confirmation not to specific angles. I have quit losing shoes but have also lost alot of riding time on this horse cause if hoove looks questionable at all wont chance losing shoe with hunk of hoove.

this horse has been fed Buckeye grownwin formulated for grass hay
2lbs for first two years with timothy hay

this last 3rd year he has been fed 2lbs Buckeye grownwin formulated
to be fed with alfalfa hay due to drought and bad quality timothy hay
and alfalfa did much better. course did this with slow transition

Buckeye is pelleted suppose to have vit/min needed in smaller volume
feed. we wanted to get off sweet feed and wanted a pelleted feed.
we switched 3 years ago from strategy to this feed after reading
about it on farrier resource center and articles web for hoove
improved hoof growth and quality. we also supplement with
crimped oats during summer months if increased trailriding.

So I am just at a loss what else to do for this horse. any suggestions appreciated. thanks again Sherry in Mo

[Laura S]

I agree with Stella about trying to go barefoot. There will be a transition period where you will probably have to have him wear boots for riding until his walls thicken and soles are healthy. I know going barefoot can be scary at first and you need a barefoot trimmer, but I have seen it work many times. Do some research and educate yourself about it first. Clinton Anderson just had a show about how he has become interested in barefoot trims. He has Pete Ramey trim his horses. Also, Jaime Jackson has a website with good info. Coreen on this site is a barefoot trimmer and has good info. Here is an article that is on Paso Pedigree about barefoot trimming written by a DVM.
http://www.pasopedigree.com/Articles/The_Unfettered_Foot.asp

[Laura S]

Also, I just wanted to say that if you decide to try barefoot that doesn't mean you can never go back to shoes. My gelding had terrible hooves when I first got him due to poor hoof/farrier care. It took a little less than a year to grow healthy hooves with every four to six week barefoot trims. I also used biotin and the keratex. Every so often I have shoes put on for showing or if I'm going to be doing lots of trails and don't want to bother with the boots. I can always tell when the shoes are removed the walls seem a little thinner, but they come back quickly and are healthy again. I still use keratex when the conditions are really wet, but don't need the biotin anymore. The best way to improve hoof circulation is for the frog to have contact with the ground which can't happen with shoes on. My gelding had shoes on this summer for 5 months and I noticed his frogs were small and shriveled up. Now shoes have been off for 4 months and frogs are big and healthy looking again.

[sherry k t]

Laura S,
thanks for your reply!! I have been researching tons of info. Seems like I will probably pull shoes off and turn him out to pasture if I cant get him up for the ride in July. The farrier is just scared we will lose what we have gained. I am going to put him on farriers formula I ordered it today. I am also going to continue the Keratex and hooflex ointment brushed into coronary band daily. I figure I will give it a heck of a shot without removing shoes in next 20 weeks and if I fail I feel I am to the last resort which is to pull shoes, trim and let him go another year. I will honestly be able to say we tried everything else, great farrier, regular scheduled farrier visits, high quality Buckeye Grownwin feed, Genahorse Bioten, Source, Oil, BOSS, quality hay (2 years Timtothy, last year and current Alfalfa hay). Not stalled, in a paddock with another gelding 24/7. Now we will place him on Farriers Formula and see what happens.
Thanks Sherry in Mo

[sherry k t]

Laura S, forgot to say I ride on alot of rocks (try to avoid them but impossible). we have miles of creek gravel roads that we ride for conditioning and then alot of trails we go on have lots of rock. CO has tons of rock where we go and cant ride barefoot there at least with a horse in transition. plus when we trailride we ride long days. just dont think the hooves could take the wear and tear and grow fast enough to take it. I have a paso gelding that my other farrier really messed up poor horse couldnt hold a shoe and I had the shoes pulled and left him alone for a long year, pulled him out when the farrier arrived to see if he needed trim and he was selftrimming on his own. when i changed to the new farriers over a year ago they put shoes on him and i havent had a problem since. good thing guess when my problem hooved horse couldnt go to CO at the last minute last year I took my PASO who once again did great. This year I am conditioning both the prob TWH and Paso so both will be ready just in case. Really want to put some wet saddle blankets on my TWH he needs the riding and time on him. only time will tell........

[Laura S]

Hi Sherry,
I used farriers formula too and thought it worked well. When I had problems with my gelding I pulled shoes as a last resort too, so we actually had time to correct angles before I decided to pull the shoes and that was probably a good thing. Now that his hooves are healthy I don't feel like the shoes do longterm damage, I just don't keep them on year round. That is the problem with being barefoot is the horse has to always be on the ground conditions that he is being ridden in. My horses are always on pasture (soft ground) so their hooves are never prepared for those long rides and rocky rides. So I shoe if I plan on doing lots of that sort of riding. I might try the new easy boot epic to see how they work because I thought it would be good for parades too and preventing slipping on pavement. Good luck with your horse. I hope it all works out well!!

[sherry k t]

Hey Laura S,
How long did it take for you to see results with the FF? Did you topdress it on what you were already feeding? Havent recieved it yet, imagine the UPS guy will drop it off today. I think I probably need to start pulling shoes on all my horses for the winter, would give them alittle break. I keep thinking i am going to be tough and ride in the winter so I keep the shoes on and then wimp out on riding cause its too cold. HA. thanks for all your help! Happy trails Sherry in MO

[Laura S]

Hi There, Yes I top dressed the FF. If I remember right you had to give a "loading" dose for a few weeks first, then cut back to a maintenance does. It has been a year since I've used it, maybe longer though. I think I noticed results within 3 to 4 months, but noticed faster growth pretty quickly. I pull shoes for the winter and I always plan on riding too, but it's either too icy or too cold!! I haven't ridden since December, but am hoping to ride this weekend. It is supposed to be in the mid 30's and no ice, just a little snow. Can't wait til Spring!

[sherry k t]

Hi all!
Laura S forgot to thank you for the link to the article!

I met a gal who is AANHCP Certified and am trying to hook up with her to evaluate my gelding mid April. we have discussed my horse and she believes he will do alot better barefoot and use swiss boots to help with transition and rocky terrain. So hope she continues to think so in April when she will actually evaluate him. She lives in IL there are none according to the websites located in MO. So thats the hold up trying to get a group in Mo so we can schedule visits and help with the transportation costs. It would be so nice if that was all my horse needs his to get rid of the metal shoes and to be trimmed barefoot and to wear boots on really rocky rides or to help prevent the excessive wear during heavy riding season. Will let you know what she thinks. Would be great if this works this horse has such great temperment and needs to be ridden hes been a pasture ornament for last 3 yrs with very limited riding. he needs to be out there with wet saddle blankets! keep your fingers crossed! thanks again for listening and your advise and assistance everyone!! Happy trails Sherry in MO