Trote y Galope Question

[pnalley]

First let me say I enjoyed the class. The horses are pretty cool, I'd like to learn more about them.

I would appreciate well thought out answers by people that know how these horses are supposed to perform

I just watched the two horse class at Nationals 2009 and I am confused.

I get the trote

In english (language) canter and lope are 3 beat gaits with different levels of collection, a gallop is a 4 beat gait.

Can I presume that Galope (Spanish language) translates to Canter? The horses were doing a clear 3 beat gait.

Next question: When they were asked to reverse at the Galope one horse was doing simple lead changes. By simple lead changes I mean it was breaking down to trote then picking up the inside lead. One horse did no lead changes that I saw. Should the horse be changing leads to the inside lead? If so obviously a simple change is not as good as a flying change.

I saw the same thing when they did the figure 8 at the galope. Should they be changing leads?

One horse was very collected, and one not as much. I presume more collected is more desirable?

Thanks in advance

[SandyMM]

According to a person I am talking to who has been to Colombia and seen the trote y galope Pasos in exhibition, the horses did a flying change of leads in the figure 8's....

[pnalley]

I figured they were supposed to change leads, although a counter canter is much more difficult then a correct lead canter when you are in something like a 20 meter circle. Very athletic animals.

[Siggy]

Interesting in that a horse with the PFHA certificate, which means that it is registered with ATTA is now being reported as a poor representation of the breed but now holds a national title with PFHA:rolleyes:

Indeed, this is going to become quite a mess. PFHA is the only organization that has an organized registry and show circuit with points but the association that represents the breed ATTA members are slamming PFHA and the horses that compete in the classes provided for the diagonals.
They withhold their top horses from PFHA competition as a protest and in doing so the lesser quality horses come out and get titles within the organization that is recognized by Confepaso:mad:..

What a dilema

[pasosx3]

Can I presume that Galope (Spanish language) translates to Canter? The horses were doing a clear 3 beat gait.

Next question: When they were asked to reverse at the Galope one horse was doing simple lead changes. By simple lead changes I mean it was breaking down to trote then picking up the inside lead. One horse did no lead changes that I saw. Should the horse be changing leads to the inside lead? If so obviously a simple change is not as good as a flying change.

I saw the same thing when they did the figure 8 at the galope. Should they be changing leads?

One horse was very collected, and one not as much. I presume more collected is more desirable?



Paula, good observations. Your questions are perfect examples of why the Judges should be required to explain their decisions and placements and make general comments.

I can't answer your questions with regards to PFHA Judging because I do not know the criteria with which the T/G's were being Judged. You would have to ask the Judges Committee perhaps?

With IPHF and with Confepaso rules, it is desired but not required that the horse change leads in the Figure 8's and Serpentines. These would be 'flying lead changes' because the horse should not break gait if he is supposed to be in Galope. So, yes, you will see horses counter-cantering. This is not an ideal but the horse will not be excused or disqualified for doing it.

BTW, "galope" is a canter however the horse breed is Trote and Collected (Reunido) Galope, so the canter or galope is supposed to be highly collected, not look like a lope. But, yes, 3 beat canter not 4 beat gallop. Also, the horse should be on the correct lead when working on the rail ie. right lead when going clockwise around the arena, etc. Again, the horse will not be excused if not on the corrrect lead.

The horse that got Reserve was a nice looking horse however did not appear to have a high degree of collection at the galope. The energy of the horse in Trote did not match the energy of the horse that took First Place. At the 2007 Mundial, I saw a T/G mare that "did not place" due to those same factors.

Hope this helps. But, I will say again, I do not know what Judging criteria the PFHA Judges used for that Class, I'm only sharing what I know from when our T/G Stallion has been shown under IPHF rules and when our Pure Trocha mare was shown at La Mundial.

[pnalley]

Pasox3,
Thanks for taking the time to answer. I would think they would take a horse down (place it lower) if it didn't do the flying lead changes, at the correct time.

You would think that a young horse in training would be able (allowed)to do simple changes.

I would like to see some video's of these horses working if any one knows where to find them.

[Lori Perez]

Interesting in that a horse with the PFHA certificate, which means that it is registered with ATTA is now being reported as a poor representation of the breed but now holds a national title with PFHA:rolleyes:

Indeed, this is going to become quite a mess. PFHA is the only organization that has an organized registry and show circuit with points but the association that represents the breed ATTA members are slamming PFHA and the horses that compete in the classes provided for the diagonals.
They withhold their top horses from PFHA competition as a protest and in doing so the lesser quality horses come out and get titles within the organization that is recognized by Confepaso:mad:..

What a dilema

Siggy,1- There are always going to be some horses better than others. Training, the age and experience of the horse & preparation also play a big part. There was a young (very new to the show ring) horse competing against a horse that had won competitions at the international level). I don't know why you would even make the comments you did.

2-Please don't presume, accuse and then write something you have no knowledge of, or background information on. Your statements are incorrect & false.

[Siggy]

I was simply quoting Jacky McDaniel who is a huge promoter of the T&Y horses etc
Just watched the T y G Stallion class, two horse and I have not seen them all year and they are now National and Reserve Champions. It was sad! Alex's horse was good but the other one did not represent the Trote Y Galope at all...sorry!
WOW


and you
Lori Perez
I was really sad to see so few people and horses in the arena. WOW. And I am sorry, but so many of the horses were of poor quality. I wouldn't even consider them to be a "SHOW" horse. Nice horses yes, but not excellent caliber. To be the Grand Nationals should be the finest and best - not just an average example of the breed

both of whom are against PFHA and what they are doing to represent the diagonal horses.

That is why I would say that

[paintedhorizon]

Siggy, why not start a separate topic regarding this and leave this topic to PN's questions?

I too would love to see some videos of these horses doing it correctly.

[Siggy]

PH this is in relation to the placement of these specific horses in the national class and why they were placed as such

[pnalley]

Actually it was meant to be a post about learning what these horses (not specifically the 2 that competed) are supposed to do concerning gait and lead changes.

Since the two that competed are the only ones I have ever seen I had to use them as a point of reference.

This thread was not started to discuss whether the TyG horses should be included in Paso Fino shows.

Lori, since you are familiar with these horses can you tell us more about what is expected from them as far as lead changes, are they supposed to be on the inside lead when circling the arena?

[Siggy]

I certainly didnt mean they should or should not be in PFHA by my comments, I simply meant that those who are for the diagonals seemed displeased with the horses that represented them and the way they were judged as well. It is hard to know what they are supposed to be when there is so much confusion and animosity.

I would really like to see a good representation of them somewhere.
Does anyone have links to videos of competition in Colombia?

[Lori Perez]

Siggy - you are using a quote I made about a particular pleasure class I was watching and of course you only took part of that quote (and it was from another forum). I am NOT against PFHA. I am very disappointed in them. Again you mis-quoted me in another post about ATTA. I am not going to get into it with you.

Paula - there are many videos out there on the web showing classes here in the USA and aboard. There are some currently on www.galopandotv.com/galopando_results.php This is the championship class from the IPHF US Trials (9/6/09). There are some outstanding examples of Trote y Galope horses in this video. You will notice there are all levels of quality, collection, smoothness, etc. just like in a Paso Fino class.
This is a very good video as you can see the tracking of the horse as it approaches and a side view. You will also see lead changes. I think Becky put up a post explaining the lead changes somewhere on this forum or on www.pasovoice.com

It is rather long (over 14 minutes) but you will also be able to see the placements & explanations the judge gives of the two Grand Champions. There were 3 placements in the championship classes. The horses also won prize money which was split three ways ($5,000 for the mares, and $5,000 for the stallions class) The judging was spot on. I hope you enjoy it as much as the crowd (over 5,000 people) did that day.

[pnalley]

Well, you don't have to know any thing about TyG horses to pick Don Pepe out as a fine representative of the breed.

He tracks straight, can counter canter, but does change leads in the right (to me) spot, he has cadence, and he is extremely responsive.

How did the roached manes start? Is it something historical?

[jackymac]

moved to Trote Y Galope Open Discussion

[pnalley]

Again, this thread is to learn about the different modalities. Not to air grievances over PFHA and registry politics.

Please start your own thread if you feel the need to discuss these matters.

[CarolU]

Paula, you asked a very valid question. I wondered what the answer was too.

I also wonder, IF since there is a trote y galope, and a trocha y galope, how come there isn't a corto y galope? :confused:

[paintedhorizon]

I've wondered too about the roached manes!

[sylveriverwitch]

First off Congratulatios to Andariego and Alex,Andariego is registered with fedaquinas which is older than PFHA and has a larger number of registrations,he is also a multi time champion in Colombia, he is a 3 mundial reserve grand champion, he has also defeated thae Current World Champion Don Pepe documented on atta /iphf show records Andariego has a daughter and son who are both very nice horses. The son is the beautiful gelding Glenna Struthers owns. Trote Galope horses are a passion just like paso finos,they aren't going away ,our horses are part of the paso breed, can't we all just get along ?

[Lori Perez]

How did the roached manes start? Is it something historical?

The roaching serves to enhance the arched necked (making them look even more impressive like a trojan horse) of the Trote y Galope horse, distingush them from the Trocha y Galope, but going back to pre-show (working horse) days, it was for pratical purposes. Since the horses were worked in mountainous terrains with lots of vegetation.

[pnalley]

So it IS historic!

It makes them look like "Alexander the Great's" horse Becephulus (sp?)

[Valrory]

I still consider myself a newbie & have a lot to learn.

What is trote versus trocha? Are they both trot?

[Lori Perez]

Valerie - you may want to check out the last couple of pages on the other thread. There are some video and descriptions. (Some of the horses posted on the videos are better than others)
I will also try and get something more posted about the footfall if you like. (there was a description put up by someone and it wasn't correct)