Throw me some ideas

[Linda Y]

I know this is going to be a tough one, but any ideas MAY help!
Case:
Appaloosa gelding. 10 years old I think. Will not eat hay, grain or treats. Nibbles a little on grass. Slightly anemic. Losing weigh, of course.
Blood test done, teeth checked. Vet is saying probably an ulcer and the horse is on meds for that, but there is no improvement. Just had a blood test done for EPM, but isn't showing any weakness in the rear.
Anybody have any ideas...other that scoping the horse to absolutely confirm an ulcer (the husband won't spend the $3000 or so necessary to do this...they already have about 20K invested in making him better)?

[SandyMM]

Try soaked alfalfa cubes..... Emi passes up _everything_ just to get to his soaked cubes...

[Linda Y]

He got soaked cubes AND real alfalfa hay. Wouldn't eat either.

[pnalley]

How long has he been off his feed? Any recent changes to lifestyle?

Could they try a different grain? 2 times per year Ladda will quit eating her grain and I go to a sweetfeed, it seems to jump start her appetite.

[Linda Y]

OK, let me see if I can remember...
He was on Equine Senior when he first started having problems. Quit eating it, and she put him on some real expensive feed. He wouldn't eat that at all, so I think she switched back to Senior. No changes to his lifestyle. Same place he has lived all his life, with the same horses. He wasn't being ridden, hasn't been for quite a while since the owner switched to gaited.
He just doesn't seem to want to eat anything, even grass.

[pnalley]

Dees he have a temp? Can you feel his mouth to see if he has stickers in it causing pain?

Poor baby, a good message always make syou feel better no matter if you are man or beast.

[Linda Y]

No temp that I know of.
They just checked his mouth this week at the vets when he went for the bloodwork for EPM. Saw nothing in his mouth.

[Carol Nelson]

As I remember, the ulcer medicine (UlcerGuard??) is quite expensive ($38 a tube)...it really does sound like an ulcer if they've ruled out the more insiduous problems (tumors, etc.).
Did you know that the human ulcer medicines are the same as the equine ulcer medicines (omeprazole) only much cheaper? Why the minute you tack on the word "equine" or "horse" all of a sudden the worth of a product doubles or triples in value, I have no idea, but I go to Wal-Mart and buy the human generic omeprazole (Generic Prilosec) in tablet form, crush the tabs, add a little molasses and a little grain, and voila, you have a mixture that no horse will turn down. If they don't like their own grain, you might try processed oats (easier to digest) or even good ole Quaker Oatmeal (very easy to digest).
A mixture I've never had a horse refuse is a dab of molasses, a bit of oats, mix in the medicine, and add a bit of brown sugar. Then stir, stir, stir.....the reason some horses refuse mixes like this is that we don't stir the medicines in enough. They can smell them in there and they instantly say,"Oh no, I'M not eating THAT!" Good luck!
Oh, and will edit this to say that sometimes it takes a good bit of time to see real improvement if it is ulcers, don't give up too quickly!

[stella]

What is his water consumption like?
Horses not drinking enough, will stop eating....of course, dehydration can have other causes......
Also, its sometimes not enough to just look in the mouth, an exray would be more apt to reveal a hidden abcess in either the mouth, sinus cavities, etc. ...also, possible small tumors. (also, any fracture, even hairline, that may make it too uncomfortable to chew much. Grass is soft(esp now)and small, and easier than anything else.....what about a bran soup? (with vitamins, etc added)....checked for any blockage in the neck, that might make swallowing difficult?(I remember way back when, a friend having a filly with a mango pit lodged way down).....

[Linda Y]

I have made a list of all the suggestions and sent to her. Myself, I keep coming to a jaw/face problem in my mind. Like a fracture...I suggested that last time I talked to her friend. She said they would have seen it when they checked the teeth...wouldn't there be a swelling...no, not necessasarily. And certainly not without an x-ray!

Please keep brainstorming. This horse is going downhill as we speak.

[Serendipity]

if he's not drinking i'd put salt on his tounge and see if it that helps him to drink and or mix up a batch of elecorlyts and and get a big suringe and slow squirt in his mouth again to see if it helps jump start him to drinking then eating.

if he was eating Seinor you could try Omolene 400 its beet pulp based and can be soaked also makes a nice mush

other than that the only other option for to I V him and that can get pricey or if he's lost his will to live and wont take anyones help he may be telling them its just time to go

[Helene]

Naaah, not time to go, yet. Not at age 10.
I had a mare last year, also a 10 year old, I had problems with -- we never figured out what it was. She would not eat any type of hay, kept her mouth tightly shut, grinded her teeth. She did have a fever, going up to over 103 degrees at times. Started on a Monday morning. Vet treated her for colic (mineral oiled her via tube--twice, two days apart). Mare also refused to drink, I know how much she had, as I put a fresh bucket of water, filled to the rim, in her pen every day. I did not know that horses could go without either for 5 days and I tried everything. Vet was puzzled, as well -- he even checked on her daily. No poop either, understandibly as she didn't eat. On Saturday, she started to nibble a few sprigs of the three different kinds of hay I kept in her pen. During the night -- she started having watery/oily bowel movements, then started eating. I called the vet to let him know -- still have no clue a what happened. We looked at poison as a possibility --here Russian Olivetrees are frequent.

Hope he recovers soon -- It's hard watch an animal feeling bad and feel helpless. Let us know of his progress, please....

[Linda Y]

That was another thing I suggested...that he may have been into something poison. I haven't heard today how he is doing.

[Cindy]

For how long has he not been eating and drinking?

[Linda Y]

A while...I know Cindy went over there a week ago when Janie was panicking. He had not been eating for a while before that.
I just asked Cindy how he was doing, she said a couple days ago, he ate pretty good. But now he is back to depressed and not eating. I think he is drinking, but not as much as he should. I will have to ask that again.
I am supposed to go ride tomorrow and will see the owner, Janie. I will ask her more questions.

[pnalley]

Carol,
how many prilosec type tabs do you have to use to make a horse sized dose?

It does pay to call around. One of my horses had a prescription for (human) nitro patches fro what I remember they were about $45 a pack when Donald needed them. I called one pharmacy and I told him that I needed them for a horse. He said "a horse?" $125. The next pharmacy I called said "a horse" $25. Guess who gets my business now?

I hope this Appy gets better soon.

[motorgypsy]

Has she tried banamine or some other pain killer. Of course if it's ulcers you don't want to do NSAIDS but IV banamine might at least let them know if it' a pain issue. If our guys have any sort of belly ache the minute that IV banamine hits they start eating.

I can tell you from personal experience that you can have tooth and jaw pain that will not only not be obvious from a check by a dentist but will not show up on Xrays as I had in infection in my jawbone ongoing for over 30 years that ate a huge hole in my jawbone, was painful but showed no swelling and didn't show up on Xray. It finally caused the loss of the next tooth in front of the ones that originally caused the problem (an extraction for braces) and when the surgeon got in there he was horrified at just how much bone was gone all the way back behind the wisdom tooth. So it can be tooth or jaw pain and not show up but it would responds to a pain killer.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Carol Nelson]

Paula, I believe I crushed about 4 tablets for the mare I was treating. I tried to figure it out according to the amount of omeprazole in a single dose of Ulcer Guard. You do have to give it a chance to work...it takes about three to four days to a week before it really helps, but it did appear to do the trick.
You know, a horse doesn't even have to be in training to have ulcers...for this mare, the cold and nasty weather seemed to bring on her stress...she suffers terribly from the cold.

[Linda Y]

They said that TJ is eating his alfalfa, but not his grain. I will have to ask about the painkillers...

[pnalley]

Eating alfalfa is a good sign. I presume he's drinking too?

Alfalfa is certainly softer then a grain or pellet would be.

I've been worried about him. Appys are a tough breed though.

[lalecl]

:mecry::mecry:if he's not drinking i'd put salt on his toung:grayhorse::grayhorse::grayhorse::grayhorse:: grayhorse::grayhorse::grayhorse::grayhorse::grayho rse::grayhorse::grayhorse::grayhorse::grayhorse::g rayhorse::grayhorse::grayhorse::grayhorse::grayhor se:e and see if it that helps him to drink and or mix up a batch of elecorlyts and and get a big suringe and slow squirt in his mouth again to see if it helps jump start him to drinking then eating.

if he was eating Seinor you could try Omolene 400 its beet pulp based and can be soaked also makes a nice mush

other than that the only other option for to I V him and that can get pricey or if he's lost his will to live and wont take anyones help he may be telling them its just time to go

[Serendipity]

thats good that he's eating his alfalfa hope they are soaking it so he gets water with it.

I had a mare that stopped eating on me and she would not really drink either but she'd dunk her whole nose mouth in the full water bucket and hold it in there she also wanted her mouth rinced with the hose. The Vet checked for everything and we finally guessed she had a sore throat

***per the last post ??? you must remember the kindest thing is not always the easyist,*****

Hows the mare lalecl did you find a Vet? or decide to wait it out?

[Linda Y]

I just got off the phone with Janie, the owner.
TJ is 15 years old. At one time, when he was about 6, he had a problem that was diagnosed as dry bowel syndrome. At that time, he was put on electrolytes, alfalfa and equine senior. He has been on that diet, doing well until now.
She said that she has tried wetting his food, and he refuses it. Also, he grinds his pellets to a fine powder and leaves it in the bottom of his feeder. He wont eat karo syrup on his food, or anything mushy. One of his favorite things was wheat bran as a mush, and now he won't eat that.
She is getting another opinion from a different vet, probably this week. I suggested the sinuses and the possible fracture of a jaw. Also, I remembered a QH mare I had that starved to death in front of my face. It turned out that she had liver cancer that didn't show up on any tests we had done. This was in the early '70's, and medicine has advanced so much from then.
Poor Janie. She is beside herself, feeling so helpless.

[Pasomom]

Yep, maybe a different vet will have some new ideas. Its worth a try.
That is so sad.

[pnalley]

If there is a chance he has dry bowel syndrome working he needs IV fluids ASAP. Waiting a few days could be deadly. Can she get him to a equine facility?

[Linda Y]

Yes, she can...there is an excellent one in Baton Rouge. But her husband has pretty much refused to spend any more BIG money on him. They already have invested so much into his care he can't see pouring more money on a gelding that they they don't use. She loves him greatly, but I certainly see her husband's point since he is the money earner! I am hoping that the next vet can give her more ideas.

[Leather]

I've heard good things about Succeed for digestive issues:

http://www.succeeddcp.com/