Too Many Vaccines

[SharonP]

Today the new vet came out to give spring shots, float, etc. I wasn't at the barn, but when I saw the bill tonight I was not happy to see Katie received her Rabies, EWT, Flu/Rhino, WNile, & Strangles. Correct me if I am wrong, but EWT is a combo of Eastern Encyph, Western Encyph, & Tetanus. So that would make a total of seven vaccines in one visit? Isn't that way too much in one day?

My old vet split the shots over a couple of weeks. It's too late to do anything now, but what should I look for in terms of bad reactions? Would it occur right away? Take a couple of days? A laminitis attack, perhaps?

What do you guys do for spring shots? I thought most vets split spring shots into two visits a week or two apart.

[Carol Nelson]

Guess again. I don't know a vet around that will make two visits, unless you ask for it, and pay for it.
That's why I went to giving my own shots. I split them up. And yes, you can have reactions.
I think it's way too many at one time, but that's only my opinion, I guess.

[SharonP]

Guess again. I don't know a vet around that will make two visits, unless you ask for it, and pay for it.
That's why I went to giving my own shots. I split them up. And yes, you can have reactions.
I think it's way too many at one time, but that's only my opinion, I guess.
Carol, I'd love to give her the shots myself. I have no problem learning how to give the injections.

But I need to get the Rx from the vet, I suppose? How do you do that?

[Helene]

I had the vet vaccinate one of my horses this year and he gave her all the shots at the same time. I think he gave her two or three seperate shots-- didn't see as I was at her head. He gave her Rabies, EWT, Tetanus, West Nile, Rhino-Flu and then he asked me if I wanted her wormed as well. I declined, as I thought she had enough for one day.
She did fine even though I was a bit anxious.

I usually give my own shots -- bought at the vet's or at a vet supply store. But I've ordered them from catalogues before. I give one shot -- the "mosquito" shot, consisting of West Nile, EWT, Tetanus-- and then a few days later-- Rhino-Flu...now, for the first year, I have to add the Rabies shot, probably a couple of weeks later).

[CarolU]

My vet does the WNV and the EWT. We are not in a rabies area, so don't do it in horses, but do in dogs and cats. Why are you doing strangles? I would only vaccinate for strangles immediately before commercial transportation. It's short-term protection and no good at all if your horses aren't in danger of exposure.

I also don't do Rhino, except for breeding horses, which I don't have.

As for bad reactions, a horse (or any other species, including us) is subject to bad reactions from any injection. It all depends on what you call "bad." Sometimes it's nothing worse then pain at the injection site, and other times it could be an allergic reaction that would kill a horse pretty quickly (one GOOD reason to have your vet do your shots. He also carries epinephrine).

All I do is keep an eye on them. My worst reactions are a hot lump on the neck that makes it hard for the horse to move his head up/down. You can avoid some of that by feeding on the ground and forcing the horse to lower its head and use those muscles immediately after the injection. If you do get a big, hot lump, give Banamine for 24-hour pain relief. You can ice it to reduce swelling.

Then, keep an eye on it. 99.99999% of the time it goes away without intervention. But, every once in a while it turns into an abscess. These can be serious and should be taken care of immediately.

[Terry Wallace]

Would it occur right away? Right away? Only if the horse is about to drop dead from being injected into a vein or artery....that will happen in 30 seconds...more or less.... other than that....most reactions become apparent within 4 hours.

I wouldn't worry too much about it...vets have been doing that for years and years....

I give a 5 way which is Tet, EE, WEE, influenza and Rhino.
I use Prestige II.

The next week..I give Prevenile (the one dose WNV shot)
One week later I give the rabies.

You can buy shots packaged in many ways...single doses for each disease, or as 3-way, 4-way, or 5-way.

I've been givingn them for 30 years now...have never had a problem. I believe my secret is that I use alcohol and I clean the site and I let it dry, and THEN...I give the shot.

You will never see me walk up to a horse and just stick them with no alcohol like today's vets do. When I worked as a vet tech for an equine vet..we always cleaned the site and I continue to do that to this day. I don't get reactions, I don't get bumps form injections done on unclean sites.

Just use common sense! I do a needle stick, check for a drop of blood, if no blood then attach syringe, aspirate (draw back, check for blood) and if no blood..INJECT.

I don't inject necks, I inject hips. I've seen way too many horses get a stiff neck from an injection, and then walk around holding their neck in a fixed position getting "more sore". That doesn't happen with a hip shot....any time that horse moves...the hip muscle moves too.

Mistakes people make is rubbing the site after injection, not aspirating the syringe, not paying attention to the location of the site to inject, and not pushing the needle in up to the hub to eliminate air entrapment or entry.

Just what has worked for me since 1972!:)

[Donna]

I need some imput from everyone. We just sold a horse about 3 weeks ago. We gave all the horses thier 5 way. The horse that we sold developed a stiff neck, then a lump on her neck. The lady that bought the horse had a vet check her and he told her once in awhile, rarely this happens. He also told her if it didn't go away he would lance it and treat with antibiotics. The buyer is a really nice lady and has kept us abreast of the horse. He also told her he was going to send off a sample of the infection to rule out gas gangrene. I doubt its that or the horse would of died very fast. If the horse does die should I refund her money? I know when you sell a horse you can't always be responsable for mishaps or sudden sicknesses. The horse went to a community stable after leaving out place. I want to do the right thing and would appreciate some imput. Thank you!

[Cindy]

I don't think you need to worry about that. Most likely it is just and abcess. Try DMSO but if it is not gone or showing great imporovement within a few days it needs to be lanced. Bute will help also.

[pnalley]

I have 4 more that I need to take over for shots. I already told the vet I didn't want the combo EWT/West Nile again. So I guess I'll do the EWT myself, and have her do the West Nile & Rabies (since by law is GA a vet must do). I need 2 to have coggins, I don't pull them on the two Apps that never leave the property.

When my horses develop heat, a lump and/or have trouble moving their necks I call it a bad reaction. I don't want my horses to hurt.

[Carol Nelson]

Yes, you can get vaccines from any reputable tack store or tack magazine or online. I have ordered from Horsewarehouse.com and been happy. I too use Prestige if that's the one that comes from Bayer. I order from the same place as my vet orders hers.
Carol U mentioned something very important...do buy a bottle of epinephrine and have it handy. It's very cheap insurance against a bad reaction.
As for having hit a vein or artery, yes, I've had that happen. Not by me, but by a vet tech assisting my vet in injecting hocks on my old mare. She needed to be sedated and the tech hit the carotid artery.
In seconds, my mare hit the ground and went into a seizure. The vet quickly gave her an injection to counteract the sedative and she stopped thrashing in less than a minute but that was the longest minute of my life. I thought my mare was going to die before my eyes but she didn't.
Those things do happpen, but they don't necessarily die from them. But that's why I give all my shots in the butt muscles. Praise God for my stocks, I couldn't be without them.
I myself also don't mess with injectable Banamine or any other injectable drugs....you get just as good of results with giving them orally, you just have to wait a little longer. I'm not trained to use those drugs in that way so I don't presume to think that I know how. I know stories of people killing their own horses with just a simple shot of penicillin. They make pills that work just as good.

[Cindy]

Penicillan is not a simple shot. Probably the one that should be used less by non-vets than anything else. And it is scary how often people use it and do not think anything aobut it. Just a drop in a vein and your horse is toast. I will not give it unless absolutely necessary. But it is cheap so that is likely why many people choose it over other, better and safer antibiotics.

[motorgypsy]

We also buy our shots from Horsewarehouse.

Numerous studies have shown that a clean needle injected in a dry area does not carry anything in with it. None of our vets disinfect injection sites. So you don't have to clean the site but if you do be SURE to let the site dry complete. I know too many people who have disinfected the site and immediately injected who did get lumps and heat. In some cases though you are perhaps having an allergic reaction maybe to the carrier in the injection.

We use Fluvacinnovator 5 and west nile given at least a week apart.

In addition to having epinephrine on hand, get a bottle of oxygen from some place like home depot and a welding torch kit with the cutoff valves and nozzle. Put the oxygen bottle only on the nozzle and cut off valve. Cut the bottom off an empty two liter soda bottle. If you have an emergency like shock you turn on the valve, put the part that would have the flame into the empty cap end of the soda bottle and put the open bottom over the animal's mouth and nose. this is a really easy way to administer oxygen. The other thing to keep on hand is a piece of 1/2 inch garden hose. Horses are commonly bitten by poisonous snakes on the muzzle. The area can swell shut and they suffocate. You can insert the hose up one nostril to prevent this from happening.

We rarely use penecillin. If you need antibiotics and can't get a vet for an emergency, go to a pet FISH store. They sell antibiotics to put in fish tanks and no prescription is needed. You can get amoxicillin, cipro, tetracycline, sulfa and a number of other antibiotics. I keep a couple of these on hand for horse emergencies. they are cheaper ordered from places like Jeffers pet or horsewarehouse or places like that. Something like $18 per 100 of 500 mg amoxicillin. You can find the dosage on the internet.

The other thing very handy for dirty wounds besides hydrotherapy is a 50 50 mixture of DMSO and betadine but be sure the area is very clean before applying.

[pnalley]

Our vet has not recommended that we give actual penicillin shots in years. If needed she will give one than she have us follow up with an edible antibiotic. She does let me keep a small bucket of it on hand but I had to promise on my life to not give antibiotics unless she ok'd it. She does not like to see people use antibiotics unless there is a real need.