What Would You Do With A Horse If....

[Carol Nelson]

you get him free from a forum such as this one or others on the web, and the horse turns out to be practically unmanageable? Or definitely more horse than someone with abilities such as yours can handle?
Do you send him/her to a trainer and spend X amount of dollars to at least try to make him somewhat useable? What if the horse cannot be rehabilitated? Do you consider humane euthanasia? Or would you haul him back to an auction to be sold again, either to the killer or to someone totally unsuited to handle a horse like that?
I think these are questions that need to be answered on a forum such as this, and I want to hear your opinions. In fact I think that it should be made a sticky. You know, we get this romantic notion that we are going to save a horse, when in fact, perhaps there are horses out there that are beyond saving. Maybe honestly there are horses out there that sending them over the Rainbow Bridge is the best and the only solution.
The reason these questions come to mind is that I myself have a horse that I will give away...and when I get inquiries on him I have to tell the callers that the reason he is a giveaway is because he is dangerous at this point. I do believe he is salvagable, which is why I am looking to find him a good home, but it will take months and starting him over from square one, which is why he is free. I also tell them that should they find they do not want him, he comes back to me. Then I will make the decision on what to do with him.
Frankly, nobody has picked up on this horse.
Ok, let me hear your thoughts...and perhaps this will be food for thought for those who think that they are getting a bargain when they take a "free" horse. Have any of you had experiences worth sharing regarding a situation like this??

[pnalley]

Unmanageable for one person may be easy to handle for another.

At this point in my life I don't want a "project" horse. If I had a horse I considered dangerous and I couldn't find the right person for him, I would consider euthanasia.

I would also consider it for a horse with health issues. For instance my App gelding Scooter. On his 4th round of cancer and can't be ridden due to an injury as a weanling.

I would not send them through auction to an uncertain fate, or put Scooter in a situation where he might be mistreated due to his physical disabilities.

I think free leases are good. But they are only as good as the people involved.

It is a very complex issue, and I'm sure there will be strong opinions.

God willing mine will not wind up in a slaughter house. I would prefer when their time comes that they be buried here.

[SandyMM]

I would consider euthanasia over the slaughterhouse if a horse has earned a place here and/or has some redeeming traits - ridable or not. On the other hand, I don't consider the slaughterhouse as bad as starving to death/lack of medical care, etc. which is happening too often on some farms and in some backyards.

We have a couple of rescue horses here and some older ones who have earned their keep for a variety of reasons. I would not take on an unknown horse from unknown bloodlines at this point. "Trying to save a sinking ship" is a phrase I try to keep in mind.....

As Paula said, a horse that may not work for one may work for another. If a horse is safe for no one and has no redeeming features - I believe it should be put down or sent to slaughter. Better to spend money, time, and resources on those who have a chance at being productive, useful, and safe.

[Linda Y]

Having been there myself, I would definitely euthanize a horse that was unsalvagable. Or one that would take too much 'special' handling. There are SO many good horses that need a home and SO few people willing to take on a project now. It would be totally unfair to the horse to send it to auction, and really unfair to any unsuspecting people that got it.

[jodiTowne]

I would let a horse live his life here or euthanize. I would never knowingly send a horse to slaughter. There have been a couple horses that haven't worked out for me, but I found them good homes. I still wonder about there future and it sickens me to think of them ending up in slaughter or starving/mistreated.

I would prefer people euthanize before slaughter. Tho, on the other hand, lots of people go to auctions to find "cheap" horses. So, some do find homes from there.

[GNix46]

I read this and wanted time to think about it before I replied.
We have several horses that were supposedly unmanageable.Two were to be euthanized, if they did not find a good home.
In my experience most horses can be salvaged. The problems they have were caused by people who were owners/trainers etc. Some of these problems were because people did not understand the Paso, and were intimidated. Other problems were caused by bad training methods, mostly brought on, by trying to get them ride to fast. But in my opinion, the worse were caused by owners who really had no business having a horse. They think they know all about horses, but do not and end up ruining a perfectly good animal.

Over the years I have run across a few really mean horses, that I would consider dangerous to them selves, other animals, and to people. I guess with people you would call it a mean streak. Animals can have it too.
Normally when we pick up a horse we have come to terms about what we will do with the horse if we do not want it ( rehabilitate ). This gives the original owner the opportunity to retrieve the horse if they want to. So far we have not had to return any. When we go to pick one up we try to evaluate before we agree to anything.
If I owned a horse I considered could not be rehabilitated, and had no where to put him/her where in safety, I would not hesitate to euthanized it.

G

[CarolU]

I agree with G.

Of course my FIRST thought is that FREE horses are usually FREE for a reason. Sometimes it's an emergency or divorce or foreclosure situation and good horses are caught in the middle. But usually, the horses were offered for sale and couldn't be sold - for a reason.

I think 99% of horses can be rehabilitated, but it does take certain types of people to do this and time. Sending the horse to trainer with the necessary skills is not a bad idea, when you consider your initial investment is low, investing in training can be the difference in a usable and salable horse, and a permanent pasture ornament.

But, an extreme horse that is a danger to themselves and/or to people handling it, I would probably euthanize. I think a GOOD trainer would be able to help you make that call. I just think of all things people do to horses to "fix" them, and the poor horse has to go through years and many attempts, in fear and danger before he is deemed too dangerous. I see people throw horses, tie legs up, even read of a chute where you put the horse in so only his head sticks out, immobilize his legs in wheat, so he can't fight or escape, and then sack out his head until he gives up fighting.

It's pretty sad. I don't think many horses are born this way. I know a man with an Appy gelding that they chase from one coral to another to clean his coral. The horse attacks any/every one. He always has, and is unbroke. He gets no vet or farrier care. This is a horse that needs euthanasia. When the owner dies, I know that is what his family will do.

[GNix46]

One of the ways I paid for my schooling was breaking horses. Back then I just cowboyed up got on them and when they finished bucking rode them. Looking back a very poor way to do things but accepted at the time. Over the course of years I ran across a few horses that I could not break. You may ride them to they gave out and did not buck, but as soon as they recovered it was on again. I remember an appy in particular that I had ridden but as soon as I was leading him back to his stall, he bite me on the top shoulder muscle, picked me off the ground and shook me. The pain was gruesome, but I knew when he dropped me I had better be moving. Barely made it out of the pen with him hot on my tail. I refused to ride him anymore, the horse was dangerous, and was trying to kill me. A few days later he severely injured a man. I really never knew what they did with the horse. Some of them are just not worth it.

G

[Serendipity]

the save or not save has always been interesting to me for the horses and for the people. I am at times shocked at a horse that is chosen to be "saved" as it seems really a danger or bad health ect and at the same time saddened when a nice horse in a bad situstion is left "unsaved".

the people are also extremes you have those that if they are going to rescue want the worst they can find,sereous nut cases,abused = dangorous, just to say it seems look i can fix that
or you have others that want the most negectiged or starved again so it can be said look what i did
there is of course, those that if it aint free or cheap its not worth the time
and then those that are the bargin hunters they really look at the "rescue' and decided if saved will it make a nice horse to ride or a saleble animal

Having "rescued" many myself I have seen horses that are of every situation turned back around, those though to be dangorous really just misunderstood,abused ones calmed under love,sick one fixed my time and good Vet and the starved blossom under good care and food

But I think the problem lies with the people we are all horse people we care for whats ours in many ways and it works, but most of us are aging to the point that that horse that might start a bucking fit or one that is quick and the owner not sure if could get out of the way in time are not as appealing now. though being horse people we will always if able take in an extra though few understand the expence behind it a free horse easly means spending an extra $1000 a year or much more if the horse needs Vet,training and extra rations and sometime that is not affordable

Yet even when i was a child living in town and horse crazy it was easy to find safe horses to ride or lease then buy after you had learned a little, now though the horse takes a big backseat, don't get me wrong there are still horse crazy kids, i niece is an example of the current trend she is an early teen she loved riding and playing with the horse though it was after her swim time and i would see her even stop the horse to text a freind. in her shoes at her age you'd have had to drag me back to house and chain me in place i'd have been in horse heaven

so I feel the question has changed from "what should be saved" to "who is avalible to save" since the horse has taken such a huge backseat there are not many people who can deal with the "projects" and it seems unfair to lose more horse owner prospect by there first horse being a bad one, keep in mind that the free or cheap horse was not advertised as it is now,it is now easy for anyone to pick up a cheapy from anywhere and of nearly anykind but the draw back is (same as a free puppy or kitten) you tend to get people that are not ready or understand what they are getting and get hurt or scared or don't care for the horse right.

I believe in rescue for those that can and know what to do,I do not believe in pressureing any one into "rescueing" (the "go get him he's in your area" cry, is unnerving),I believe at this time certain horses should not be offered to the public, I do not believe every horse is worth saving, but I do believe we horse people need to work hard at educating the public correctly and offering only good horses because we need more horse people more horses will be harmed if we don't focues of getting more people involved since there are already not enough homes for even the good horses let alone the rough ones. and i'd rather see a nice horse find a home

[dana]

Depends . . . . big difference if it's a 5, 10 or 15 year old. also issues involved.

wish i could retire YESTERDAY!

i'd have a half a dozen "problem" children . . . . **grinning**

but they would never leave my place!

[movo]

Free horses are NEVER really free and I agree that most have problems. Most of the horses I have, came to me as "unmanageable." I have six at the moment (recently down from 7 due to a death.)

My heart horse purposely killed a human (reared up on and purposefully killed) and was to be euthanized, but I took him instead. He has turned out to be a very special horse. He was made dangerous by improper "trainer" handling. I couldn't mount him for many, many months after I got him and only in the last couple of years, has he allowed others to mount him. But he has been a fantastic dressage mount for me and I feel privileged to had had him and love that now other people can get that smile when they ride him. I have had him for twelve years and he will never leave here.

I have two paso finos. I have a wonderful paso mare, I spent a lot of money on about 5 years ago. She is a fire and brimstone prima dona (lots of brio), but great fun, a smooth ride and afraid of nothing. She has no issues (you get what you pay for), unless you don't like hot horses.

The other was a free "unmanageable" who I took because he was "dangerous." After almost two years of him adjusting to having a regular daily life with no riding, just daily handling, he is a joy to have around. Just now are we re-doing the riding training from scratch. He is coming along wonderfully well. I have no goal in mind for him, just for him to be a solid equine citizen who complies because he wants to and not in fear, or resentment.

I'm pushing sixty years old now and I'm not so good with bucking, rearing, whirling, dervishes any more, so for this second paso fino, I have hired a rider who is excellent, but who works the horse at my home, under my very watchful eye and supervision. I know how fragile these problem horses can be, so I will not take any chances on sending a horse away. If I can't see what's happening and control what's happening, then it's not happening. If I need to send one away to a trainer, because I don't know what I am doing, then I don't believe I should be taking it on. The horse has learned to put trust ME, so I have responsibility not to betray that fragile trust.

All this to say that taking on a horse with "issues" must be done with careful consideration. I have never "needed" another horse. I have always had wonderful horses to ride/driver and have never taken on a "project" because I needed/wanted another horse. I took them, just because I wanted to give another chance. Never to make money. I will never sell any of them. I have never cared how long it took and have never put any timeline on turning a horse around. They cannot be under pressure to "change."

If I needed the "horse with issues" to show /sell / trail ride / drive, then it wouldn't work because they have all needed chill time in the beginning to get over the "fried brain" syndrome and lots of time after that to wash away the "issues" by just proper handling and training.

BTW, I have one FREE horse that I have had for six years and he is now wonderful to handle on the ground and in the stall / pasture, but riding/driving will never happen for him. He will always be a healthy, happy, pasture ornament. He is 14 years old. I'm ok with that. You have to accept that it might be the case, before you take them on. Sometimes, the trauma has been too great to overcome.

Hope you can take some wisdom from a couple of my experiences.

[Paso Matchmaker Extraordinaire]

Amazing post movo.

[JennLM]

2 of our recent "Free" horses have issues (so does the other one we got recently).

1 is a 15 yr old gelding who has been abused many times over, sometimes I have seen the spurring and beating = ( He is good on the ground but we are working on his saddle issues. It's going to take some time.

The other is a 7 yr old greenbroke horse who has run away with someone, been spurred and handled not too delicately, and done some bucking/ crowhopping with another. I rode him once with very few issues with no spurs and light hands but along with movo, my back cannot handle bucks/rears and I prefer someone to get on them here in front of me the first few times in case they do.

I knew of all this before I took them on. Then I have the guy we just gelded with some issues as well. Never thought my hands would be so full of horses who need specific training and attention before I can ride them safely LOL But, I did ask for it.

I also know they will all be fantastic horses when they do come around.

[Terri]

I've thought about this too. I do believe most horses with "issues" can be rehabilitated with the right training. Unfortunately there aren't enough people with those kind of abilities and to many horses in need. And way to many people who "think" they have the right abilities.

Almost every day I get an email about a free horse needing a good home, not to mention the numerous updates from places like AC4H looking to rescue to many horses. Most of these horses only have a "few" issues...ie....."he only kicks people in the mornings, you can easily dodge his teeth, that leg???? Oh it will heal up correctly eventually and if you keep the right shoes on him his navicular issues will never bother him" Okay I exaggerate, but you know what I mean. But to many truly kind people, with out the right resources or abilities will rush in to rescue the poor horse and find them selves in this very situation.

I do not kid myself. While I am fairly experienced around horses (um, I mean I have had lots of experiences) I am no trainer and I do not have the financial resources to pay trainers. So as hard hearted as it sounds, I delete the emails and do not look at the rescue websites. It only breaks my heart.

I have found that the cheapest thing you will do with your horse is buy him in the 1st place. A free horse is truly never free. I do believe a dangerous horse that can not find an appropriate trainer willing to take him in, should be humanely PTS.

As for me, I try to keep my extra stall open for a friend or neighbor or a horse that The Lord has obviously brought to me in need.

[pnalley]

Like I said before the wrong horse for you, may be the right horse for me.

Some people at our barn went & tried than purchased a "gentle" App gelding. He was very gentle, until he got over strangles. Then he was just too much horse for them. We got him cheap and had a blast with him.

I think sometimes people try to stick a square horse in a round hole. You have to figure out what they have an aptitude for an go for it.

For instance with ChaChi (our problem child). He is not a show horse, never will be. He just doesn't understand why he should go around in circles more then twice. By that time he has already seen it so their is no point. Put him out on a trail, the more technical the better and he would go the the fires of h#!! for Donald.

We used to train our own horses and had fun doing it. Now I don't have the hours it takes per day to work with them, and I don't bounce like I used to. If I had the chance I would use a pro a lot more.

I have two unridables here. One should be broke, the other is but is physically limited. They are not for sale, and will never leave our place. But they were born to us.

As this point in my life I don't want or need a project horse. I have 8 of my own:rolleyes:

[motorgypsy]

I do have a problem with people who make the decision that despite the fact that experienced professionals or experience amateurs who have help from professionals are willing to take a problem horse, that if THEY can't hand the horse, it must be destroyed. What arrogance.

On the other hand I also definitely believe there are horses that are "psycho" and as dangerous as a serial killer. There was one case on another forum where a horse that would attack without warning was euthanized and the owner had a necropsy done. The horse had a brain tumor. And there are known lines that produce very nasty horses in most breeds.

But again on the other hand we had an old cowboy living near us who adopted a mustang stallion. Every time before he rode that stallion he went out in the pasture and chased that horse around the threw rocks at him and hit him with them. Of course he did not in any way injure the stallion. But this was done for what was usually about ten minutes. When the stallion decided the cowboy was "worthy of him" and more powerful he would come right up to him, be haltered and could be ridden bareback with just a leadline. The cowboy said that if he didn't chase him with the rocks each time he went into the pasture the stallion would kill him. A friend rode this horse in a parade and said he was perfect for her. But you can see that for this particular animal it was necessary to establish dominance every time, not just a few times, because he was a formerly wild herd stallion. A dangerous horse? Oh yes. But the cowboy owned him until he died at a ripe old age and he never hurt anyone.

There are two types of horses that can seriously dangerous that aren't psycho - the really dominant aggressive types and the "fear biter/kicker" who has been dominated probably from birth and is not strong enough, fast enough or brave enough to fight back. Of the two I think the aggressive ones are easier to manage because once they understand you have more power and once you know their personality they can be dominated. But the fearful ones wills strike out without warning if they feel trapped so take a lot more caution and special training. We had a dog like that and we had to give it to a pro trainer. The trainer did a great job with it and adopted it as his family pet but the dog was not safe for us because it would attack without warning anyone it felt threatened us in any way. And it was a big dog.

I would definitely let someone else adopt or buy a horse I felt was too much for me but I would give full disclosure, have the person sign a written statement indicating the problems the horse had and part with it on the condition that it come back to me if it didn't work out. A psycho horse, I don't know. The one that kicked me over the heart attacking me without warning and trapping me when I had no food, no buckets and went nowhere near the horse, that one would at least get the mustang treatment - with boulders or a stun gun or something serious. If that didn't cure it, it well could end up UNDER the arena, not in it. But yes I'd let someone else work with it but on my property with me present if it were mine.

So the bottom line - it depends on what the problem is what we'd do about it.

[Serendipity]

definitely let someone else adopt or buy a horse I felt was too much for me

i believe this is a good statement though perhaps not in the right place, we have all dealt with horses that fall in the "too hot to handle" place. but that place is differant for everyone i like a hot/hyped horse many do not so a perfect horse for me may be a nightmare for someone else as the horse is always itching to go

I agree if a horse to much for its owner try to place it where it will be enjoyed by someone able to handle its personality, because it very much might be the owners fault at being to timid with to hot a horse all of this makes perfect sence for one the heat or activly level is natural a horse might pop up (not rare) because its excited to go or give a bunny hop for the same reason excited its the kid in a candy store syndrome i like to say we leave these horses idle yet hopped up on high energy feed and then wonder why the horse acts silly,hmmmmm

and to me that is the differance if a horse is acting silly or confused that is a horse that can be worked with to improve, but those with intention ,intention to get away,intention to refuse,intention to hurt ect and yes most of it is man made shame on us humans and yes sometimes it can be fixed with a very llllloooonnnnnggg process. does this horse deserver to be fixed(not one memtioned above general statement) the anwer in a perfect world is yes,

the anwer in reality is that there are also horses out there that they or there owners have fell on hard times there nothing wrong with the horse it is not damaged goods it was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and all it may need is love and feed and normal basic care to be enjoyed still a project but one that shares its rewards quicker

I'd rather find those horses homes first than the ones that will take a vast amount of energy,time,money ect to maybe maybe get a horse you can manage least yet ride, for one there are so many of this second type and there are very few safe homes for them

[Oops3]

I took in Haku blindly. I didn't see him first, deal with him first, nothing. I was begged to take him while planning my father's funeral. Of course, I took one look at that pretty boy with the half-blue eye and sorrel self, and it was love! It wasn't until a few days later that he went for me in his stall while I was distracted untangling his halter. My trainer (she trains my horses and she trains me) insisted Haku be brought to her place and under her training before I got hurt. He did, she did. He's back with me now, sweet, willing, mannerly lover. He's a rescue who damn near blew it, but honestly, worth every $ I spent to have him rehabilitated. And someone is going to have a wonderful horse if they get him Paso training!
ps: No-one has mentioned the satisfaction gotten when a lost soul is given the chance and comes out right, be it Pasos or ponies. That's why I do it.

[pnalley]

Well said Nichole!

I rescued a Coral son. I rode him so much that I literally wore his shoes down to nothing. He was a great ride fir 3 years. Then he lived out his life here. I do think he appreciated me, I know he was worth the time & money to keep.