hay choice for laminitic horse

[Mellifluous]

Need a logic check here.

I did a search and found the posting that Lynn G shared about hay for horses that are prone to laminitis. It pretty much said that the warm season grasses like bermuda and crabgrass are lower in sugar, and the conditions of the harvest can lessen the sugar even more. So, since I am in the eastern half of the us, hay tends to sit longer to dry out before baling, that reduces sugar as well as being cut earlier during the day.

So...my hay guy called and told me that I have a choice between Russell Bermuda/Crabgrass hay or straight Coastal Bermuda hay. In the past, I always jumped on the Russell/Crabgrass because it is coarser and the horses LOVE it. I have attributed it to the fact that Crabgrass does contain more sugar than Bermuda.

Since Phoebe has shown herself to be prone to laminitis, my gut is telling me to get the straight bermuda since it would have less sugar...even though the Russell Crabgrass is probably OK as well. What would you do? I have to tell my hay guy today since I am the only person he square bales for and he needs to know which I want before he breaks out the baler.

[LynnG]

I have had horses colic eating coastal bermuda before, not all but more than one. If I happen to be feeding coastal bermuda then (due to what may be available), I feed that horse another type usually coarser stemmed hay. I always though crabgrass was known as "common bermuda" hay. I fed crabgrass hay last year and the horses loved it and no problems as long as it is cured out well. For me, it is a supply situation, what I can get, and do seem to end up buying timothy shipped in from NY before the winter is over.

[Red Ryder]

I use bermuda and it does quite well, so I vote Bermuda

[LynnG]

Mel, if my memory serves me correctly, hay cut earlier in the day will have a higher sugar content vs that cut in the afternoon.

[Mellifluous]

That is what I thought as well, but the article said that earlier in the day is better

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=7443

I think the key is after a warm evening. I know in the fall and spring if we have 40 degree nights, the warm season grasses have more sugars in the morning.

I have not bought the coastal in the past due to colic fears. I did feed it one year without a problem but I just don't know.

[LynnG]

Mel, basicly they are in the same family of summer grasses. I do have crabgrass growing naturally in the summer in my horse pastures (aka wire grass to gardens); horses like to graze it. It's hard to get ride of LOL. Its a better price per bale from my local farmer than if I bought the coastal which has to be plugged to get started. Personal preferences, but if you have one colic from it to me if I had a choice, I'd buy something else.

[Mellifluous]

I have typically purchased the Russell Bermuda with Crabgrass in it and have not had issues. Though Crabgrass does have more sugar than Bermuda Grass, the way it is cured, etc. would probably keep the content down since my hay guy gives it extra time to dry because the Russell is a thick stemmed Bermuda.

Unless he has a field of pure Russell Bermuda, maybe it would be best to go with the mix over Coastal.

I really am not wanting to go digging around for another source around here. It is bermuda or fescue typically and I have gotten burned over and over by other guys. This fellow is consistent and his quality is good.

[motorgypsy]

We have two who will colic on coastal but one is a mini and the other has really small tubing. We were told not to feed coastal to either of our guys who had surgery but SloughP will eat anything and probably has with no problems so far (keep our fingers crossed)

Honestly probably alfalfa and you might look up T/A are probably lower sugar than either and you could give her a bit of it just to reduce the amount she eats of the other hay. We had our horses on pure alfalfa for nearly a year and while three of them got fat as pigs noone coliced and noone foundered. The wired pasture bales are left out free choice but the person who sells them and who uses them says when they run out she just lets them scavange a bit on the weeds around before she replaces it. I now just give two flakes a day - one to the old mare and one to the mom and baby with handfuls to the other guys because they just get too fat.

Goodl luck and tell us how she does on whatever you choose.

Couldn't you get a sample of each each tested at UGA? I'd be curious??

[CarolU]

Mel, if you read the articles at Safegrass.org, you will find that the sugar in specific grasses will vary by the growth spurt the grass was in (spring high, but also high after fertilizer or rain), and the time of day the grass was cut. Afternoon cuttings are actually higher then morning cutting. I was also surprised going through DairyOne's annual average analysis, that alfalfa is on average lower in sugar then grass hay. The advantage to me of grass over alfalfa, is that when you have a laminitic easy keeper, it takes them a lot more time to eat their daily ration of grass then alfalfa or pellets, so less acids in the stomach and a healthier horse because of the fiber.

You can not stand outside a bale of hay and guess how much sugar is in it. You have to sample it. I think a carb sample at Dairy One is $35. I found the University of Michigan was a lot cheaper for all my analysis, so use them for everything (I have to monitor insulin in Bien and ACTH in Zar regularly AND balance my rations). You want to stay under 8-10% sugars, depending on the horse.

If you don't want to do that, then I'd presoak my hay. Buy a couple small mesh hay nets (about $10 each), weigh out the day's rations into each bag, and then soak the hay for 30 minutes before feeding, pour off all the sugar water, and then feed. It's pretty easy if you do it this way. Just buy an 18-gallon tote from Walmart, throw your bag full of hay in it and cover with water (I found you need a weight to hold the hay down). Wait 30 minutes, remove weight, dump water and the hay drains easily without any waste.

[pnalley]

Our area has had several bouts of heavy rain. That has jacked up the carbs in most hay fields.

My farrier just told me that he has had 6 calls over the past weeks with foundered horses. Our pasture is crap, yet a couple of hard rains after a dry period is what caused Caliente to founder.

I don't know what to tell you about the choice. Ask the producer which looks better.

Doesn't it look the sugars when it is in storage? For instance doesn't fresh baled hay have more sugars than hay stored over the winter?

[Leather]

Ditto everything CarolU said.

[AliceG]

My vet recommends soaking any kind of hay (removes carbs) for a laminitic horse. Just don't let the water get hot and funky while it soaks.