Epiphany time...

[Heidi]

...I'm rather embarassed to post this.

I have had horses for 33+ years. I've always felt I developed into a good horseperson who has a feel for horse behavior and was a balanced rider with soft hands.

I am nearly finished reading Mark Rashid's book "Horses Never Lie" and I have to say it has been an eye opening experience and a bit of a revelation!

I was taught with "the horse has to know who's boss" mentality. Growing up and without supervision, I modified my riding to my horse and found that the more time we spent together, the less I had to ask (demand?) that he do. We just seemed to 'know'.
I've read Parelli, Roberts and Lyons. I understand their principles and their methods...but Rashid has struck me from my blind side! P, R and L all advocate treating the horse in a respectful manner and becoming the dominant horse in "our herd of two". Rashid made a comment that just blew me AWAY!

He commented on how in a large herd of horses there are the dominant (alpha) horses that other horses FEAR, and respect the fear those horses instill, not neccessarily respecting the actual horse. Within those herds and below the alpha horses are other horse groups that follow other horses (quiet, steady horses) that the other horses CHOSE to look up to and follow.

Then Mark asks which do I want to be to MY horse...? The feared alpha or the chosen leader?

That just seemed to shake me to my core and step back to take a good look at exactly how I interact with my animals. I don't want to be a feared alpha, I want to be a chosen leader! I am proud to say that I am mostly the person I want to be, but that I will need to adjust my thoughts on some issues in other areas. Especially the one that was instilled in me to "make him do it". I will have to be vigilant and allow Q time to think and I will have to recognize when she is trying and reward her.

Has anyone else been shaken by a book, one that made you examine yourself?
Heidi

[pasogalinbama]

Wow! never thought of it like that, i don't want my horse to be afraid of me, i want her to be my buddy, trust me, i will have to read the book. a new revelation! Cool


Thanks

[GregM]

It seems to me that the last thing I would want in a crisis is for my horse to fear me. Far better to be a source of confidence and calm.
Sounds like a good read.

[finolover]

i think quito has learned to fear me.....and respect jeremy....i'm nervous and hyper while jeremy is slow , quiet and steady... :confused

[Terry Wallace]

Very possibly Earl...remember...with horses...you get back what you give... ;-)

[Jasfino]

I like his kind of thinking Heidi. I try to always keep in mind that my horse is my partner. Jasper chose me so I think thats why he was so easy to train.

[hast]

That's it Jasfino, my horse kind of chose me too. Or at least Michico chose to trust me when I just got him. He was scared for everything and had to have someone, so he took a chance on me. He was way too scared to try to bully or be inpatient with, so we built a great relationship with real trust. I've had lots of people comment on the relationship I have with my horse when they meet us, it's all about trust and speaking a little "horse." ;-)

[Mellifluous]

I do love those Mark Rashid books, they are really easy to read and make you think. Heck, my non-horsey hubby read them and enjoyed them. Every book gives you different stories and insights. I found his ideas making a whole lot of sense to me.

If anyone wants to borrow any of them, I have all of his books. PM me with info and I can drop them in the mail.

I also have some clicker training videos by Karen Parker if anyone would like to borrow those too.

Maybe we need to start an americanpasofinos.com "library"

[CarolU]

Heidi, I think this is the principle of Natural Horsemanship that all these clinicians are teaching, that you can have two types of respect from your horse...one is from fear, and the other from trust. These men all teach you to be a trustworthy partner for your horse. I have to admit to only thoroughly studing Parelli, but the others I have seen now on RFD-TV. I don't think any of them adovate making a horse fear you (i.e., being the alpha through fear leader).

Look at traditional horse training methods and you see exactly the old 'fear' method...metal nose bands or curbs, harsh bits, spurs, bucking out, throwing and hog tieing, bitting in, etc., are all ways to FORCE a horse to do what you want. And, they've been used for centuries and are still used today. Look at any tack store and you'll see TONS of harsh gear to FORCE a horse to learn. What they respect, is a healthy fear of PAIN, and you are the pain-giver.

I totally agree with getting that respect from trust instead. Cowboy Ed mentioned this once, and I have to agree with it, you'll KNOW when you have your horse's trust, when they run TO you when they're afraid or uncertain. You'll know you are a trustworthy leader. There really is no feelling like it in the world.

[GeorgeGuns]

The only time I have ever wanted to instill "fear" in a horse is when they bite, or kick out of disrespect (differentiate between a warning that is self preservation due to discomfort). I think that's why I latched on to the NH stuff.

The others say basically the same thing that Rashid does, maybe a little differently, but the cover the same ground. One thing that statement leaves out is WHY that more quiet horse is chosen to be followed - its usually because a) the horses know that horse will back up a "look" very quickly if ignored and b) the overtly "scarey" horses are the enforcers.

I think too, in a "full" herd - stallion, mares, and a few young'ns - a horse gets to grow up with full knowledge of who is who from the git-go, so the true alpha may not ever have to actually prove it, or if they do its once and only once. Boy herds are a little different, even geldings can have that boy-ness that means sparring for the joy of a good wrastle. But still, the alpha horse is going to rule quietly. If you watch these alphas, they have a bearing and confidence that the bullies don't - same as with humans, bullies are usually less confident.

I know Parelli really seems to focus on the word "relationship" and the "prey animal" factor, Roberts plays up the advance and retreat thing, etc, but they all say basically the same thing, and DO it ALL even if they don't explain the whole thing. I like watching all these folks, each has a different way of putting it and hearing what one has to say can help ya see it in another.

Kudos to you for your epiphany! Ain't it FUN!?

[halfmoonfino]

That's wonderful, Heidi@ I love a book like that. His philosophy sounds like what I believe.

The one book (among many) that's shaken me the most is What Horses Reveal by Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling. When I read it, I felt like a whole new world opened up and that I was a genuine novice (and I really was). After reading that book over and over again, I have gained new insights about Pitty that I had never dreamed of figuring out. It was after that book that I learned to ride bridleless, something that had never been a goal for me. For anyone who has read or will read that book, I reccomend not judging too quickly. And it is true what he says about horse personality types; one day you will wake up and just KNOW what your horse is.

[Heidi]

I read Dancing With Horses by KFH, I'll have to check out What Horses Reveal, too. I'm going to my fave feed/tack store today and will request the other Rashid books.

Coreen, your assessment of Rashid's chosen leader is not how he described it. He commented that in the large herd situation, there were alpha horses who were bullies and had no 'friends' or other horses that wanted to share their company. The chosen leaders were all quiet, calm and deliberate in their movements and manner. I don't recall where he said they expressed their dominance like an alpha at all.
It was a very different explanation for this situation and that is the one that shook me, because it was NOT what I was expecting. If it was as you described, it would not have had the same impact on me that Rashid's description did.
I don't know if I explained that correctly... :oops: I did enjoy his writing style and felt I learned a lot through self examination and I look forward to reading more of his books. What I look forward to even more though, is spending more and more time with Q!
Heidi