Stirrin the pot....Trocha & Paso Fino

[Terry Wallace]

Can I hear your thoughts on these subjects?
How many of you really think there are PERFECTLY gaited horses, who can do nothing but gait, and gait perfectly?

I have seen, personally witnessed top name Fino horses, and all other such as performance & pleasure horses, that will indeed fall into trocha from time to time...mostly outside the show ring..but also IN the show ring.

Does this make me (or you) think LESS of theses horses? For me...I do NOT think less of these horses for not being PERFECT all the time. I DO love to see good accurate gait... I do NOT expect it 100% of the time, and frankly, have not seen a Paso yet that did not trot, trocha or do something other than GAIT perfectly all the time.

To me, a horse that can do it all...trot, trocha, gait, canter, gallop...is a horse that is multi-talented, more well-rounded...and more suited to particularily TRAIL riding... The fact that such a horse can be ridden in gait when asked for, trot or trocha up a hill when asked for, gallop at full speed ahead when you need it...and do it all with a calm, level headed way, is a horse worth MUCH.

I would like to see more truth in advertising! Denying or refusing to believe that a Paso Fino can trocha, trot, or gallop, or canter is to me, doing the breed a dis-service.

I DO want them to gait along for the most part...but I sure would not throw one away because he trotted up a hill, or fell into trocha when he was tired.

Most of you here know me...you already know I feel there are NO perfect horses, not perfect in gait, confo, or otherwise. All have faults and all have attributes.

Please let me hear your thoughts on this. I am so tired of the "my horse is better than your horse" mentality on "another Paso BB"...its like a war between countries...and WHY? This does the breed NO good....and this
IS A VERY GOOD BREED.... ;-) I mean...what more could you want? Many of them can do it ALL...and they GAIT too !!! :D

[Heidi]

I don't show, I only pleasure ride.
For me, the only criteria I will hold to the highest level is temperament and smoothness. I could care less what they do with their feet as long as they do it willingly and smoothly.
Heidi

[cowboy ed]

terry, i think that i have probably seen just about all the different gaits you named in lots of different horses. and yes, to say that there are paso finos that absolutely, positively have never, ever taken a step out of gait is probably erroneous. i have worked with lots and lots of different paso finos. some of them have to really be worked and held in a certain frame to get them to gait properly. if not, they can trot, pace, trocha or a combination thereof. others will gait consistently regardless of tack, rider skill, or terrain. i have seen a few paso finos that did not gait at all, just a plain old trot, no matter what.

yes, unfortunately, there are lots of people who have that kind of attitude,"my horse is better than your horse." i have some horses that are gaited very, very well, and i have some that are just so-so.
it would be great if everybody was just willing to tell it like it is, but apparently that isnt as much fun for some!

I have seen horses in training at the 3 Miami barns I board at and seen a lot of horses who never get out of the 4 tiempo gait.

Its not always the horses fault for your 411 - the trainer has a lot of impact whether the horse will trot or not.

[Beth Worden]

Oh yes - truth in advertising would be nice, but it will not happen... I always tell folks my pasos WILL trot - normally up hill. And sometimes it will turn a potential buyer off because they have been led to believe that a paso fino will NEVER trot. I try to explain to them that most pasos do trot and troche. That it is the rare, maybe 5%, who never take a step out of gait. What I DO hate is when folks advertise their horses as being gaiting fools and they never take a step IN gait.


(edited for spelling errors, sorry)

[halfmoonfino]

I'm with you, Terry. Pitty falls into a trocha at times, and he'll trot occasionally too. He gaits most of the time, but he's versatile, and I like him that way. I don't show, so perfection is not important to me. I love Pitty for who he is. I'd love him even if he never gaited a step in his life. He's special to me as a spirit, not as as a perfect show animal. I care very little for that. But I am grateful for his smoothness of stride that allows me to ride pain-free! It's is a true God-send!

[Terry Wallace]

Keep those comment coming... Ed..you are so right....one has only to train a few to see some have great talent, while others do not....Some gait right from the get-go, and others take ten times more TIME to get them there. I will always prefer horses who show a lot of natural talent from the get go...from birth, because I find them easier to train, and they take less time to get in frame, and therefore need a lot less training to KEEP them in gait.

I so wish we would not have lost Lee Ziegler, she was so good about explaining gait, very precise...and her gait clinics were very, very good.
Beth...there are MANY people...including breeders of Paso Finos...who CANNOT tell the difference between trocah and gait...that is a fact, they cannot tell watching from the ground...or..in the saddle! They *think* it is ALL gait....when it is not.

Of course there are many breeders who KNOW the difference also....
I'm sure not wanting to take away from that fact....its just that I wish more people would take the time to learn the difference, and NOT think every time the horse moves, that it is in gait. Also...that all Paso Finos are not as SMOOTH as others...its a FACT.

There is nuthin' better than a great gaitin', ULTRA smooth Paso...I think we can all agree on that ;-)

Please keep those comments coming!

[Pasogirlz]

I agree w/ the way some ppl describe it not as "being out of gait" but "out of the correct gait/modality". The other things Pasos do is also a gait by other breed standards, so to me, it is fairer to say they are not in the "correct Paso Fino gait". Does that make sense?

I have seen many a CHAMPION fino horse that did not "gait" every step they took. Maybe they do in the show ring, but the trainers often excersize them in some other "modalities" too. SHHHhhhhh, don't tell ok. ;-)

[Terry Wallace]

Hey Nito...was it all 4-beat Paso Fino gait...or was it also some 4-beat trocha gait? BOTH are 4-beat ya know!! ;-) ;-) ;-)

Timing is EVERYTHING!!

[appyday]

Terry I need you ...check your PMs

[Carol Nelson]

Bravo, Terry, well said!!!

Do I believe there are horses that gait consistently, perfectly, all the time...no! Do I think any less of a horse because it doesn't? Of course not!

I live for the day that the trail horse brings more money than the show horse...do I believe I'll ever see that day? No.

A horse that is perfect on the trails...steady, level-headed, calm and eager and willing to work, whether it trots, cortos, largos or canters, should bring more money than any horse that can perfectly gait down a sounding board or around the rail in a show ring. How many times have I heard people say with pride, "It took four men to saddle that horse..." and brag that they are "hot" and full of brio!

I had a couple come to my farm here a couple of weeks ago from out of state, and they related that there was a breeder in their area that spent thousands of dollars trying to produce the PERFECT Fino horse. They had purchased one of his horses, and were disappointed that it was way too much horse for them to handle. They applauded my choice to breed a good calm trail horse even though I will never get the big money for them that a Fino horse will bring. They encouraged me and told me to stick to my guns because they felt I was on the right track.

But this is an old conversation, I doubt anything will change, but I plan to just keep on breeding my Pasos with the QH temperaments, that I might add can keep up a pretty nice Pleasure gait too.

yes im sure its the paso fino not the trocha :D

[Barbwire]

How the heck do I know what Amante is doing with his feet? I can barely see my own for cryin' out loud. :lol:

When we are riding in a non-gaiting group, Amante gets real l-o-n-g and low, almost mimicking the horses he is with. He does a nice relaxed corto for the most part, and he trots up the steep hills . We lope with the group, and once in a while have an all-out "yeee hawww!" We ain't fast, but we are smoooth.

When I ride alone, Amante gaits differently. He is all business with his head up and his back "short". We speed walk the first 10 minutes or so, then for the most part, we just hum along at a medium paced corto. If he starts to get bouncy, I "kiss & check" to resume gaiting. If he doesn't respond with that, I slow him to a walk, then start again. Amante has been known to break into a fino-type gait when a dog appears or he hears chainsaws going.

On the way home he treats me to a smokin' largo. I end the ride by getting off and walking the last mile home. Amante gets long again and lets me choose the pace.

I don't know what he's doing with his feet at all times, but I know I'm liking it a whole lot.

[Fuego]

If people want truth in advertising from sellers, perhaps we ought to require truth in promotion from the breed organization, first.

Truth as far as explaining the truth about the origins of the breed known as Paso Fino in North America.

I'm referring to not acknowledging that the Colombians have pf gaited horses as well as trocha and trote galope basically within the same breed. Whereas the Colombians have seperated the 3 into different subdivisions, in N.America they have all been lumped together as Paso Fino.

From a popular show BB, I've seen many Colombian state it doesn't matter to them if the exact pf gait is performed or not, only quickness of fino action mattered.

From my personal experience, the PPR or heavily PR blooded Paso Finos have all gaited correctly naturally under saddle without training needed to obtain it. But it's has been quite common that that the Col. or heavily blooded Col horses have to be trained to perform the correct pf gait.

Perhaps more breeders/sellers would be more honest about our breed and the breed gait(s) if they were supplied with the truth from the beginning.

[Beth Worden]

Well, Feugo I have ridden several PPR horses that did nothing but TROT. As a rule, I will agree that the PPR is usually a very smooth gaited horse, But, I have also ridden many 100% Columbian horses that were just as smooth. I think that the idea of anything that gaits as being 100% pure is
ludicrous. I have yet to see genetic proof of a PPR horse, but that is for another topic.

[Linda Y]

My first Paso Fino was probably one of the most perfectly gaited horses I have ever seen. She would canter, and do it well...not the pogo stick canter. But I never ever saw her do anything but a perfect Paso gait, not a trocha, under saddle or in the pasture. She is the standard I have judged Pasos by since 1965 and most do not measure up...maybe one reason I have had so many!
I have loosened my standards some in recent years. I have that mare's great granddaughter and she pretty much does nothing BUT trocha. It is smooth enough for trailriding and I guess I will have to settle for it. I do care if they trot, but don't care if they canter.

[Camilla]

Terry,
I prett much agree with you 100% on this one.
I have not been in the breed for that many years but I have seen and trained enough of them to see some are more naturally gaited than others. Nevertheless, I personally prefer a paso that gaits perfectly when asked, even if it is capable of every other mode of travel, and does it brilliantly to a naturally gaited horse without pizazz.
I have to respectfully disagree with the statement that Col PFs are not natural gaiters and PPR PFs are perfectly gaited. I agree with Beth on that one. We have about 10 to 15 Paso Finos on the farm here at any given time and the only one that simply refused to ever gait (100% trot) was a PPR. I think those kind of generalizations are simply not accurate at best and can be very misleading to the possible newbie shopper at worst. For example, I have had a few people come to me looking to buy their first paso fino... admit they have no clue about gait and cannot tell what they are looking at... and then state that they want a PPR because they have "heard they are the ones that gait"... leaving them very vulnerable to the integrity of the seller.
I would say that the only safe "generalization" is that most paso finos gait (4-beat) and most of them are capable of other modes of movement as well (be it pace, trocha, trot, etc). Anyone who tells you otherwise is likely unaware of or deliberately misrepresenting what any given PFs do or can do. Just because you see a rider/trainer go by on a PF that never misses a step of gait does not mean that is what that horse does 100% of the time. Of course one of the prime roles of the trainer/rider is to encourage and teach a PF to gait evenly and consistently on command.
jmho

[Fuego]

I have to respectfully disagree with the statement that Col PFs are not natural gaiters and PPR PFs are perfectly gaited.
**************************************************
First off, where was that statement made in this thread?

I believe I was the only one so far to mention PPR/Col and I DID NOT make a generalized statement. I clearly stated " FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE". That's not generalized, that's fact of MY personal experience. Perhaps it's not an accurate portrayal of the breed, but it is my actual experience. And info that I've seen other's relate from their personal experience.

While I have experienced PR Pasos that would break gait,I've never experienced a PPR that was naturally trocha ( not to say they don't exsist).
Whereas it has been rather common for the Colombian lines to be naturally trocha and only perform the pf gait when forced to. But many Colombian horses have also been naturally gaited, just not as consistanly as the PR Pasos.

Not saying PPR is better then Colombian, or vice versa.

Puerto Rico produces Paso Finos whereas Colombia produces paso fino as well as trochadors and trote /galope. The PFHA doesn't seem to make a distinction between trocha and pf horses and lump them all in as Paso Fino. The Colombians classify and compete Paso Fino and Trochadors seperately ( at least to my understanding).

My point is if PFHA wants to include Colombian trocha horses as part of the breeding pool ( as well as reward it in the show ring), then they should recognize it as part of the written breed standard and not be dishonest and intentionally misleading about the gait(s) of the breed they are promoting.

Again, this has just been my personal experience with PFHA Paso Finos.

Personally, I have no problem with trocha, as long as it is smooth like a good pf gait ( which many are). I have a problem with intentional dishonesty about the breed.

ANOTHER 411: Colombian trochadores are not registered with the PFHA but instead with the ATTA.

If a horse trots in a class its usually kicked out :lol:

[ErinC]

Please let me hear your thoughts on this. I am so tired of the "my horse is better than your horse" mentality on "another Paso BB"...its like a war between countries...and WHY? This does the breed NO good....and this
IS A VERY GOOD BREED.... I mean...what more could you want? Many of them can do it ALL...and they GAIT too !!! [quote]

AMEN, I just love my horses, and have ( just this year ) gotten over that!
I was so upset when I thought my horse was suppose to gait all the time,
and was not....

they are still smoother then a trot! ;-)

[CarolU]

1. Trocha is also a natural 'gait.' The Foxtrotters breed for it! It's very smooth!

2. Most people are Pleasure riders and only care that their horse is smooth and consistent. I'd bet MOST of these trail horses are in trocha if they are gaiting for long periods of time out on the trail. It is a lot easier for the horse to maintain.

3. I don't think MOST owners know the difference - or care really. They care about smooth gait.

4. I've seen very smooth horses in a dead pace that the owner swears are in gait.

5. I do think there are horses that are more naturally isochronal, just as there are horses more naturally trocha.

and finally - THIS IS JMHO - a lot of troche has been bred into the breed by Colombians and Americans to get more speed and action. To me, this "Breed for Speed" mentality has taken over all other breeding priorities, and smoothness and consistency aren't even on the list anymore - TO THE DETREMENT OF OUR BREED. I am glad there are breeders who still keep MY priorities first.

[Jose Rubero]

While I have experienced PR Pasos that would break gait,I've never experienced a PPR that was naturally trocha ( not to say they don't exsist).
Whereas it has been rather common for the Colombian lines to be naturally trocha and only perform the pf gait when forced to. But many Colombian horses have also been naturally gaited, just not as consistanly as the PR Pasos.
Just my opinion (well informed): It has been understood by ALL my PR and Columbian contacts/trainers/breeders that the PPR is bred with Columbians just to "enhance the gait". There exists an intense competition between both countries as to who has the better "better breed". Both understand that every once in while the PPR HAS to be introduced just to keep the Columbians from only doing the trocha, etc.

All gaited horses can "slip" out of gait, which results from many factors including training.

My experience though, is that the PPR (there are always exceptions to the rule)
should NOT slip out of gait.

Remember "Los Caballos Del Paso Fino" Horses of the fine walk, was their original name. The original Paso Finos were NOT classic fino, they were pleasure Pasos bred for a continuous and ENDURING gait. They were bred to go long distances, in gait ,so as to conquer the "New World" in smoothness (without the high leg action). Who were those Pasos? In my opinion-todays PLEASURE PPR.

[Minouri]

I haven't ridden too many Pasos in my life. Most of my prior experience was on other gaited breeds.

For me, it's harder to tell exactly what gait Scooter is in since it's all directly under me and so fast. If he's smooth, I don't correct him. If I'm bouncing at all we drop down to a walk again and I ask him for something smoother. This has really smoothed him out over time. That and the dressage lessons I took.

I wasn't too surprised to see the picture of a trot when I rode him bareback last week. He used to trot all the time when I got him. Even his trot is very smooth, though...is that the trocha? I don't know what that gait is really. Before I owned him apparently he'd been free leased to a young girl who encouraged him to trot because she was a jumper. I've always assumed that was his trott...even though it doesn't feel like a non gaited horse's trot.

I'd love for a really knowledgable person to ride Scooter one day and tell me what each gait he does is.....I'd probably find out he's skipping or something....lol

[reuben T]

the 'my horse is better' line comes from;
1) personal insecurities having nothing to do with horses.
2) lack of equine education.

Also, is the horse with a perfect gait better than one without? Not necessarily. one horse is better at one thing, another horse is better at something else.
There's scientific proof that a trot'n horse is good for yer health. (provided it dosn't agrivate weaknesses.) aids circulation, good for cardiovascular system, makes muscles stronger for their mass. same benefits as bouncing on a trampoline. supposedly cowboys who ride a lot are stronger for their weight than those who don't ride.

[Brigitte]

I don't think there exist a fino that has never gaited in trocha or something else. Fino when they are relaxed usually go in some trocha like gait. As have I seen trocha horses who went a few steps into fino. There's no perfect fino so of course there can't be a horse who has never gotten out of fino. Just because when you see them they're always in fino doesn't mean that the whole entire time they're in fino also

[Serendipity]

the "my horse is better than your horse" theads can be funny and irritation at the same time .
I agree those are misinformed people and I'll be honest the smoothness is what brought me to the breed but the being able to do anything is what kept me in it Show on Saturaday trail ride Sunday and speed events the next weekend.
I've put many a QH person in place when they comment on my "little horse" in a true run for it race my pasos have been hard to beat.

but the trocha/gait and col/ppr go hand in had with the pinto paso threads have you hear these? Pinto pasos are not really paso finos.Its all the same

My pasos have all fallen out of gait for any # of reasons and my horse that gaits the best is a pinto paso ??!! its all in how you look at it

[GeorgeGuns]

When I took Bri up to Dr Shoemaker, she had some interesting comments that really made me stop and think. On his questionaire was a part about gait, and of course I (without thinking) focused on his paso gaits. When we got there and she reviewed the q'aire with us, got to the gait part, she wanted to know CAN he trot, CAN he canter, and was happy that I answered yes. She was quite adamant that breeding heavily for gait is breeding the immune system and endocrine system out of these horses. I think she has a point. Its similar to what happened to that fox farm in russia or wherever - they started breeding for more friendly foxes and ended up getting a lot of white hair and health problems!

I think the deeper message though is to be careful wht you are breeding - if a horse has a history of, say, metabolic issues but is still breedable and is gaited as heck, more thought may be necessary. Or if you have two horses that are steadfast in corto, or "so gaited" that they don't trot or canter ever, maybe they shouldn't be bred together, it may be asking for other problems in the offspring.

:roll:


The whole PPR and Colombians using them to "enhance" thier gait smells. and it smells like horse turd. I wonder if thats why we see SO MANY! PPR and Colombian cross - the only Sucessful ones in the show ring will have to be Barb's and Kelly Cox's Arco Iris de Capuchino which is I believe 1/8th PPR.

Then on top of that the Colombians and Puerto Ricans are just so friendly with each other they are willing to do this. Ask a PPR breeder and a Colombian breeder they really hate the idea of crossing these two horses to make "The American Paso Fino". They are ALL greedy with thier nation. Colombians with Colombians and Puerto Ricans with Puerto Ricans.

Only you nations not related to these two do this and its the truth.

Anyways whats the purpose of this post? To degrade the Paso Fino as a trotting horse half of the time? Or just a topic to start some fuss within tje crowd?

Just wanted to let it out. ;-)

[Terry Wallace]

Ah Nito.... what you said is not completely true. There are indeed trochador champions registered with the PFHA...an example of this would be Atrevido del Ocho, who was first a champion trochador horse, before he was a champion Paso Fino/Fino stallion. I could name more, but that always seems to cause a rukus...and the main point of this thread is to acknowledge that many Paso Finos can do it all... some are better than others, and there is no such thing as a perfect-gaited, or perfect conformed horse. ;-)

[pasorider]

I don't know that much about the gaits, only know my Pasos sure feel good to my butt. But we have some friends that breed Rocky Mountains and I get so tired of hearing how Rockys are just born so friendly, they are such people horses that you don't even have to break them, just get on them, do a little training and they are just THE BEST HORSES. always in a gait. I do know I have seen one of their horses that will kick and bite anything that gets in range, another that trots ALWAYs so I guess the problem of being realistic with our breed is universal. I think sometimes we all tend to exagerate the wonderful traits of our breed, no matter what that breed may be. I just know that no matter what they are doing, I love Pasos and wouldn't consider owning any other breed.

BLESS YOU PASORIDER you own .

[Terry Wallace]

Nito...the purpose the Col Paso was crossed with the PR Paso was to UPSIZE the PR Paso.... it was not to "enhance" gait....it was to make a bigger horsie for the American public, who on average IS larger than the average Puerto Rican.

The purpose of this thread was CERTAINLEY NOT to degrade the Paso Fino..but rather to put a little TRUTH in advertising....

Why are you taking that "tone"...may I ask???? (Nito)

Hey Paso Rider...next time you are amoung your Rocky friends....remind them of what heritage those Rockies came from!!!

[LynnG]

I have ridden enough wonderfully natually gaited and smooth that rarely went out of gait unless it was to canter Paso Finos over the past 30 years, and also many that weren't.

In that case, it comes down to the breeders and the criteria they want and value, as they reproduce those "important" qualities. There is still much diversification in the breed for everyone to find what they want in way of going .......in gait. To each there own in knowing what they want personally in a Paso Fino and then making that a priority!

[Pasogirlz]

Well said Lynn :notworthy

[cowboy ed]

i sold a PPR mare to some folks a few months ago. they had been to several other places to test ride some horses, and just couldnt find what they were looking for. when they got here, i went out to the pasture to get the mare. she was way down the hill in the bottom 40. i told them to just wait at the gate for me. i walked down to get the mare, put a halter on her, climbed on her back and rode to the gate. these folks were just standing there, grinning, watching that mare move, head set real nice, and just gliding along. they said,"we think we've found what we are looking for!"

i have some horses with colombian blood too. nice and smooth, easy to ride. there are lots and lots of paso finos out there that represent the breed very well. lets dont turn this into an "us" versus "them" thing.

[LynnG]

footnote to above:

I have ridden enough wonderfully natually gaited and smooth that rarely went out of gait unless it was to canter Paso Finos over the past 30 years

........if this wasn't the case, I would most likely not have been involved with this breed as a constant for so many years. It is what the Paso Fino breed offers me in its qualities I value and admire, that keep me with the Paso Fino as the preferred breed of choice that also I reccomend to others who want the same in a naturally gaited smooth riding horse ...and one with energy and excitement! I don't think you can find a riding horse smoother (and more dynamic for that matter) than a Paso Fino. And yes, some are smoother then others....but that is just as anything genetic, some are more one way then another; full siblings...one short one tall, one athletic, one not.

:runaway: :horsey:

[Terry Wallace]

On the subject of smoothness by lines... the smoothest Paso I ever rode was a PR, but..I have ridden plenty of smooth Colombian breds, as well as 50-50 mixes of Colombian & P.R. I do prefer the phenotype of the PR horse "most"... with all the mixes these days, it can get hard to tell just what is what without looking at papers!

Thanks for all the response to what I think is a GOOD thread.... I like all of "yours" honesty.....

[motorgypsy]

Sure they can do all the gaits. They're horses - plus!!! But we want isochronal and smooth and of course pretty doesn't hurt. We like small but have big also and the one critieria we want in addition to the even and smooth and good range of gait. Most of ours have it but one does not. She happens to be PPR and will go to hard pace when pushed although she's fabulously well gaited - even as clockwork with a beautiful fluid action. Several PPR's we've ridden and considered buying had no range of gait.

One more interesting thing - if you look back at the criteria for the paso fino gait - it used to be allowed to be somewhat lateral (still four beat) but not diagonal. Check some of the other websites for older descriptions of the gait and you'll see that the lateral comes in regularly in the description. Now we all know you can't be lateral and isochronal and show rules now want isochronal but many many descriptions of the paso fino gait still use the term lateral. Why? Because lateral used to be acceptable. I think the trochador took care of the diagonal side of the four beat and paso fino, the lateral side of the four beat. Now the old description says "even is the best gait" but lateral was OK.

One more interesting note. One of our mares is a little trocha (7/8 PPR by the way) in the corto and the faster she goes the more even her gait becomes. She's not off by much but if she's freshly trimmed you can feel it. Another is more even in the fino and corto and paces above those gaits. So Nito you can say the horse is even four beat but before this horse was trained what did it do when pushed beyond it's normal range for even four beat? That tells you the natural tendency to be lateral or diagonal. One more thing - our more lateral mare will indeed trot on occasion - not often but she can do it. She bunny hops or pronks also but can also do a normal canter.

They're just soooo talented!!!

[fran]

I think that the question comes down to whether or not you want quickness or solid gait....if you have a well gaited prepotent mare,in my experience, she will throw gait,no matter what,however, it may be not as quick,depending on the stallion...and i still like paso fino lines that have either peruvian or puerto rican mix somewhere in the background...wonderful trail horses,usually with some size and bigger bone...personality depends on how they were brought up...usually...the other point is that we don't work our horses enough and they can not gait for long periods of time if they are not conditioned...I still believe that all pasos can/will gait unless they have a physical condition,usually in the hocks or feet....jmho....hello everyone...still hanging in here....feeling a wee bit more confident...looking for spring....61 tomorrow...and going backwards...lol...nice to see you all here...fs

[Abejita]

isnt lateral also used to describe it just to help people who are not able to understand the term isochronal (face it..we get people to the breed who have just learned the difference between a gaited horse and a 'walk-trot' horse..you kinda have to dumb it down a hair until they get interested and actually get into learning about the breed. I never heard the term isochronal until I started coming to the BB and I had worked on a paso farm for 5-6 years at that time..) The foot fall is lateral in the fact that it goes 'back to front ,other back to front 'as opposed to a trot which is'back to opposite front , other back to opposite front'

[Pasogirlz]

Good point Albejeta. As newbies, gait can sometimes be a hard concept to grasp at first.

[CarolU]

Glad you're here Fran, glad it looks like a horsen' around day for you (we're having cold and snow showers all weekend - of course, it's our Expo). And glad things are looking cheerful right now for you...spring does that...no?

This reminds me of a conversation I had with Cindy a year or so back. My question was "how could a horse that was very consistent and very smooth, place behind (or not place at all) behind a horse that jigged, borke gait, and wasn't smooth...but was VERY fast (footfall) in a Pleasure class?" Her answer was that the PFHA Rule book requires judges to judge gait first, above all else. And the standard for the gait, is the same in all three Divisions...where only Fino requires a quiet croup. None of the other rules seems to apply since you routinely see horses without a flat walk win in Pleasure, and horses with no manners win in Pleasure, and horses that are bouncy Bessy's...win both Divisions. (Disclaimer, there are judges who DO look at and apply all the rules in the Divisions, like a flat walk in Pleasure, but more and more judges just stop at that gait rule).

This was quite the eye-opener to me. It also explains why our breed has changed so much in the past 20 years, to where the same type of horse, indeed the same lines, win all three Divisions, and why the spectators (and 90 percent of owners) can't tell the difference any more between Fino, Pleasure, Performance, except by the costume of the rider and the class number.

What I see at Nationals...compared to say 20 years ago is this...they're ALL Fino horses. Those that aren't super-super fast enough to compete in our now-very tough Fino competition, are shown in Performance, and those that don't have high enough hock and knee action are shown in Pleasure. That's the difference in the classes in a nutshell.

I have to admit this is a tiny nuance, but figure that there are several hundred horses of almost identical breeding, competing for 3 championship positions. So, the differences are subtle. I will admit though that the PR judges of two years ago, recognized and placed accordingly a GOOD largo. The horses that placed in Performance all were capable of extending and moving out. That was a nice exception to what you usually see, which is a faster corto.

And, you also see judges turning a blind eye to troche in the arena EXCEPT on the board or during individual work. Then it is a little harder to say they didn't notice.

So, weather you like it or not, troche is rewarded in our breed anymore, because it is ALL ABOUT SPEED OF FOOTFALL.

I often wonder where this puts the average owner/breeder. They are encouraged to breed to the "Champions" to get the best horse. I sincerely doubt that THAT criteria (if it was your sole criteria) would get you a good well-gaited versatile (show, trail, family) horse. It could very well get you a horse that ONLY a $600/month trainer can get to gait at all.

Now...as a caveate, there are exceptions and champions I'd breed to, but I'd want to SEE any potential stallion gait at liberty or on longe line, before I 'assumed' he gaited naturally.

JMHO (but shared by hundreds)

[Cindy]

Carol, if you are going to use my name and quote my words, please do so verbatim as that explaination does not make any sense TO ME so I doubt that it is what I actually said. Most likely, it is how you incorrectly interpreted something that I said.

[CarolU]

Cindy, you said the rule book says you have to juge quality of gait first. I checked the rule book, and you were 100% right. That is all you said, and all I said you said.

I do not make a habbit of saving everyone's posts on the BB, and as it was on Steph's old BB, it would be impossible to do a search for it.

[Serendipity]

I know I have been told by several breeded to only breed for fino and deal with what you get after that.
I personally never want to own a fino horse when I got my colt I told them point blank I do not want fino and have a garontee that he won't be.I like the veritility of my pasos and we do okay in the show ring.I get merits for being persistant 8-)

[Tami Pinell]

Gee - this thread is as interesting as watching rival football teams play rugby! :lol:
The more I read these types of threads the more I really love my lecture time with genetic experts..... I guess when folks really learn what the gait genetics are then they will understand that the paso fino in the PFHA is a mutt and breeding is a challenge if the genetics are not understood..... If they were not then breeding top fino stallions to top fino mares WOULD produce a winning fino offspring 99.9% of the time..... that would take the fun out of it for me..... ;-)
As I am sure the bigger breeders have seen, you breed the first time or a new cross and you WATCH to see if you were right or not. What you get is at the control of the genes, through time and trial one can get use to breeding for what one calls a standard for their own farm, be it gait, personality, versality, color....... could go on but no need too....
As far as one horse being better than another - well that is like talking to folks about their children, unless the kids is just a real mental killer to the parent then they are the best in the world. Being honest - well that is a personal thing - you have it or you don't.
The issue of what country gave what to the PFHA paso - PERSONALLLY - I do not care - I look at each horse for what I want to have and reproduce - who cares where they came from because it really boils down to the fact that these other countries got their horses from somewhere else - they all did a wonderful job of diversifying for their own needs and wants - just like we are doing here!
Now to what is better and what should be condemned as far as gait in a PFHA paso fino.... well, since they register ONLY by DNA then they have ALL gaits in the breed - only some are NOT showable in the recognized PFHA shows (does not mean I can't show them somewhere else and do great at it!) I understand that there are other countries that register but leave out color patterns such as too much white, etc..... does not mean the horse is NOT a paso fino, only means the registry does not wish for it to be reproduced in the registry - take the paso and do something else with it (rope cows!)
The best gait for a paso in the PFHA depends on what the paso is intended for - does it mean it is harder to train - well NO.... take a really lateral even 4 beat tight rapid gait and train that to extend a trot up a mountain - well trust me, that takes one heck of a trainer.... take a true trocha and retrain it to be lateral and even for a fino class now that takes one heck of a trainer also. To sell pasos is nothing more than an art of matching horse and rider - what the horse can do with what the rider wants the horse to do with ease..... for breeders - tweek your breeding program to match your market, then match horse to rider, bingo - pony is sold..... if you are producing what is not selling or winning or doing what you want..... CHANGE YOUR PROGRAM and don't try to change the system - it is fruitless and frustrating to try to change the system and much more rewarding to tweek what you do to have satisfaction.
Now to answer Terri's orginal question - trocha has it's place, not only in the performing world but in the breeding world. As someone said this past week - too much of a good thing can turn bad real fast.... I feel the same about the lateralness of a gait in the paso fino breed. Evaluate each horse for what they are and not what a piece of paper says they should be - if the paperwork was true to words then there would be a lot of big time race horses winning the money - I believe it was a no name this last time that brought the top dollar at auction and did an outstanding 1/4 mile.... :D
This is just my two cents worth.....

[motorgypsy]

Most people really don't seem to understand lateral or diagonal either let alone isochronal. No, lateral does not mean even four beat. Lateral is "pacey" where the legs on each side hit closer together then the diagonal legs. The sound produced will be four beat but not evenly timed. There will be two beats, a pause and two more beats. We're referring to timing here, not space. Isochronal is just a fancy word that means same time or evenly timed which of course means an evenly spaced gait also. Neither lateral or diagonal. Think sewing machine gait. Each leg goes up and down in perfect time with the others like four independent but connected sewing machine needles hitting equal time apart from each other making a noise like four even drum beats. When the horse crosses the sounding board each hoof impact should be timed evenly from the one before and the one after it.

Foot slammers are popular by the way but it's not really healthy for the horse. I honestly think some horses like to hear their feet slam on the board.

One little note - we have two miniature horses. You don't really realize just how sloping the shoulders of our horses are until you look at the shoulders of the minis. They're almost vertial. And again you get so used to our guys' gait that the minis are really funny looking with that great big elevated trot. Diagonal gait = trot. The two diagonal feet hit the ground at exactly the same time. Trocha is a four beat but unevenly timed gait where the diagonal feet hit closer together in time than the feet on one side. You hear two separate hoof beats, a pause, then two more. The closer to paso fino the gait is the more even the beats sound. The same thing is true for lateral or a pacey gait. It can be nearly perfect or waaaay off all the way to a hard pace where the feet on one side hit at exactly the same time, then the feet on the other side. The horse sways from side to side and you hear only two beats instead of four.

[pasolucy]

As far as having a perfect gait all of the time, what horse of what breed is perfect all of the time. I have carved out a small niche in my area for the type of Paso that will sell around here. We want a baby sitter horse, with little or no brio, a very willing animal but one for the less experienced rider. The horse must be over 14 hands, 14.2 in an almost minimum. I give demo rides all of the time, even when I have nothing for sale, and I tell the people that if they are going to buy a gaited horse they will need to learn about gait. It is a myth that you ride off into the sunset on a gaited horse and it will gait forever with no problem. I sold a well gaited halfbreed to a lady and in 6 months she had him almost in a dead pace. Brought her back to my house and put her on my mare, taught her about gait and she has had the horse for several years now and is happy as a clam. She can feel the gait, knows when he starts to slip and can correct immediately.
The horses that I can sell around here would be laughed out of a show ring, not enough action, not enough brio, but they are true pleasure horses that anybody can ride and the baby boomers love.
I sold a cribber that was a true trail horse for twice the price that I sold a show "pleasure horse" that I was boarding here. He was a nice animal, way too small, too much brio and he was really a give away horse just to get him off of the property. He did well in the local shows, but we do not have many people around here that want to show, they want a nice relaxing ride down the trail with a group of friends.

[CarolU]

Carol, I agree with all you say...except about "with little or no brio." I guess I would call it low to medium brio. Brio is a horse's willingness, even eagerness, it is their 'heart' to go-go-go and keep going. I think all your horses have plenty of brio. It has nothing to do with how 'spirited' they are. High brio would be a horse that just doesn't seem capable of shutting it off, dances in place, always moving...definately NOT a candidate for stall living.

What people confuse as "brio," is frequently nuttiness, or fear, or spookiness. It's a horse strung out on adrenalin. You see poor horses that were pushed too hard too soon and have lost their mind, and people call that brio. You see trainers outside the show arena doing rapid flexing or rapid backing to 'bring the brio up"...when what they're bringing up is the adrenalin and stress levels in the horse - I think this kills horses with ulcers, makes some lose their minds, but it totally destroys the brio. :cry: Poor horse has no release but the end of the class...and then another class after that.

Perhaps a widespread definition of brio compared to adrenalin. Hmm?

[GeorgeGuns]

I had an interesting conversation with one of my clients. She had gotten a lovely OTTB mare, in horible shape, now she is all ficed up but the horse has gone and fallen for the lady's hubby. Once again she is on the hunt for a horse. She told me "I really want something I can just poop around on the trail with, and not have to get after too much, i just want to relax!" I told her it sounded like she was ready for a Paso Fino and she said "Oh YES!". I told her about Rio, who is sensative enough to need a mere quiet scold if he gets out of line wich he rarely does anyway. I told her his size and that he's not mature yet or even "broke" and sent her a picture. He's as good as sold, she is just waiting to buy her farm. Gait never came into the picture except a comment from her that sure she wouldn't mind not having to post. He 'sold' on size, temperment, and looks. THAT is what a Paso Fino is.
I find this discourse about gait interesting, and yes, necessary. It does keep us fresh, but i think its also takes away from what else there is that really defines the Paso Fino. There are smooth horses that aren't pasos. My first gaited was a TW that was superb, and my first ride on a Paso Fino did not impress me. It wasn't until I needed a horse to help my confidence that I turned to a Paso, after a bad wreck. Temperment. That she was smooth and well gaited was icing on the cake. Then I got closer to the breed, learned more, rode more pasos, and found that the Ethnicity of the horse really turns me on. The passion of the people that have originated these horses is transferred after so many centuries into a true breed trait IMO, and its one of the most endearing factors. Its in their attitudes: they may be bold in action or bold in quietness or bold in lovingness, bold in their loyalties, or bold in their work ethics. Its in their foot fall: the music, the dance, the whole feeling of understanding the power of life. Not all latino music is salsa, and a good Paso Fino has it all right in their hearts and in the step.

My point is that just using gait as a major selling point is shortselling the breed. Maybe the american Paso Fino is going mutt, but TG we haven't opened the books to TWs and MFTs cuz I gave up dancing to bluegrass and dixie and forgot all the 8-to-the-bar songs I used to sing to Ponca.

I understand we can't judge some of the more emotional traits of this breed in a show ring, it really does get down to gait. I personally don't have a problem with trocha, although i do prefer corto, and I don't show so its not such a big deal. I'm into this for other reasons and my first sale is right on target for what I want to do for this breed on whatever small scale there is.

Hmmm maybe that is what's being lost in the shows - the focus on the beauty. It seems like all we look at anymore is the legs and the croup. what about the rest of the horse?

[motorgypsy]

You are right - ugly horses are hard to sell.

A horse's muscles tire at different rates and when certain ones tire the horse will shift to others. This is when the gait will go to diagonal or lateral rather than staying square or in the middle of the two. The more training they have and the more exercise the longer they can maintain the square gait but eventually they all do tire. On endurance rides we alternate between gait and canter for that very reason but many times by the end of the ride the paso fino will go pacey and/or trocha for a short distance to rest up beore going back into correct gait. We're looking for the preferred gait to be even, not a horse that never does any other gait. If the preferred gait is even, as the horse gets in shape they will do this gait more and more and increase their gait range also.

Brio is not crazy. That is a total misconception. Some of our horses are born a bit too sensitive but many will calm down. I don't think we imprint as much as other breeds also which probably means the fear levels of the non imprinted horses are higher to start with. Yes you can "over imprint" but handling from birth makes life so much easier when the horse is older.

[Terry Wallace]

Tami..you make a great point about lateral-ness, and I surely agree.
See a lot of that, too pacey...

I don't know if I totally agree with not trying to change the system...actually, I DO think change will come, and for the better...just don't know if I want to hang around for the "ten years" it may take!

Sounds like the Grand Prix type of show format just may be a start...

You know, many Pasos start out trocha, and eventually get well enough conditioned to maintain very good gait. Its a fact that trocha is "easier" for a horse to maintain... some have to really work, find their balance, and get into conditon to gait. To me, that is a perfectly natural progresssion. In the Ochoa books...many horses started out trocha when young, and then later advanced to good gait. Just like JR Simbolo..for example. ;-)

[motorgypsy]

Considering they're not full grown until six how can we expect them to have the muscle tone and balance to basically balance on the tip of a pencil gaitwise.

This is why I'm convinced our more lateral mare will extend her range of gait. Her fino is perfectly square but she lacks range and she's just not been worked because we already had a number of paso finos with good range of gait who are much more comfortable to ride. I've just started working with her and in two sessions I already notice an improvement now that she's starting to get the idea that I don't want her to pace when she increases her speed. It's very interesting.

[SandyMM]

So many excuses for horses that don't do the even four beat paso gait...

So many training methods to teach them to do what someone couldn't breed for...

Too many experts who bred for or introduced trocha and now train for paso fino....

stir-stir-stir....

Have I ever seen a Paso who did nothing but the Paso gait - PPR Antares - a son of Kofresi - and Pete - Greg's pure Colombian gelding. And others.... most bred carefully to avoid known trocha and 'infiltrated' bloodlines in order to preserve the natural paso fino gait (as opposed to the trained gait).

[motorgypsy]

No we're not talking about a trained gait. We're talking about a horse who gaits correctly once the horse is grown even if it's a pasture ornament. (Our lateral mare is PPR double Kofresi - 62.5% Kofresi to be exact and she is extremely even fino but when pushed to faster speed tends to goes to pace. Our first task is to let her know we don't want her to pace.) The paso finos we are talking about gait correctly at birth and during their growth but just tend to go in and out as different muscles get stronger and the body parts are a little out of whack. Training to gait on cue is not the same as training to gait. The horse already gaits, already has the gait gene but doesn't yet know when the human rider wants him to gait rather than canter, trot, pace, or walk. We teaching cue, not gait. We do know the son of a very well know fino stallion who at three was very very diagonal 4 beat. We wonder if he outgrew it or is still off gait????

Do we want non gaiting paso finos? Nope. Would we breed a non gaiting paso fino? Nope. But we need to be realistic about gait. Some paso finos have more range of gait than others and not only do we want correct gait but we want a good range of gait. A fino horse is fun but unless it can largo also it's not going to appeal to the general public so we need both correct gait and good range of gait and smoothness - the whole package in a horse with good sense, good health, intelligence and willlingness. Gee we don't want much - do we??? And the great thing is many many of our paso finos do have it all!!!

[fran]

I have to agree with Tami and J.Rubero...the breeders who breed for show know their lines and yes, if a good show horse has puerto rican lines in it,they will seek it out for breeding and I don't think that either a puerto rican breeder or a colombian breeder will only breed horses from their countries...they've been crossing bloodlines for years...however, it is becoming more difficult to find pure puerto rican horses but I believe that even a little bit is better than none when it comes to selling nice pleasure gaited horses to the public,but i also like peruvian blood too...it all depends on what people are doing with their horses...the nice lateral gaited,always gaits type paso is great for beginners as a pleasure mount,however, the troche type horse is a nice animal for a more experienced rider.....I'm not going to go into why i think this....some of you wouldn't understand...I still think that the Resorte lines are well gaited,naturally gaited and just as good, if not better,than puerto rican...I have heard from paso people that not all puerto rican horses are well gaited,even some of the better bred ones,and those that don't gait...don't....now that's what I've been told...my Resorte/puerto rican mare always throws gait...always....smooth like glass slipper,but then again,my colombian/peruvian(well back) is also smooth...it's interesting that when I showed her,somebody's trainer said that she was troche but the judge said positively no....shows you how people see things differently....BTW...she's not troche...may have been as a youngster before I got her at six...but she sure developed into a wonderful well gaited mare who can extend and collect,largo or almost fino on the spot...depending on her brios level...we all bring to this board our experiences with our own horses or those we have had the pleasure/or non pleasure of riding...so we all have varied thoughts on the subject...I don't think that you can say anything for sure except they are all great horses...we are just a bit short on trainers,good ones who can handle both owners and horses well...lol....showing is all hoop la and flash in the pan....the proof is in those breeders who consistently put out the type of horse that they want,knowing their own animals and having experience in the breeding of these horses thru the years and the show ring isn't always a good criteria...altho,the good ones speak for themselves thru the years...how many people buy winning show horses that don't do anything in the ring after they are sold....and that is why I believe that a nice consistent old type foundation horse is a great beginners horse...the troche horse does take more savvy and work up to a point,and can also get sloppy if the rider lets it or doesn't understand...so, if you read between the lines,what I'm saying is,the horse with puerto rican lines is a better beginners horse than the pure colombian...again,can depend on which colombian line...quite clear,no?...

[motorgypsy]

What we find amazing is the breeders who know paso finos so well they can just look at an individual and tell you its ancestry. That is amazing. There are many truly knowledgeable people in our breed but the offspring isn't always a given even for them. Properly gaited foals??? Sure. Fino gaited??? That really is a "crap shoot" because it depends on personality as well as ability. We have just two fino - one Col and PPR mix and one PPR, and it's not just that they CAN do it, it's that they do it naturally because they want to.

By the way Fran - your guys AREN'T lateral - they are square or true gaited, isochronal, even timed, whatever you want to call. You DON'T want a lateral (pacey) gaited paso fino anymore than you want a (trotty 4 beat) diagonal gaited paso fino. This doesn't mean your paso fino won't do a lateral or diagonal 4 beat gait, it just means it's not their gait of preference.

[fran]

the truth is Nancy,I have either troche or lateral...I find that youngsters either trot or pace,at least mine do/have but as they mature they all gait isochronal or whatever,AND,the most consistent,smoothest ones under saddle were the pacier at birth and as young horses...and i know that some people will say that pacey youngsters are harder to train to gait evenly...not so with my experience...they do however find it difficult to get comfortable with a canter and do some weird things,like little bucks because they get frustrated when urged to move out at a canter/lope,until they get their mental processes sorted out....the troche ones do go into a canter better and easier...jmho

[motorgypsy]

but now your guys are isochronal - on the video they were for sure and they were not being pushed or bullied. Just a nice lovely smooth even gait. Our more lateral PPR mare "pronks" sometimes - the four feet off the ground at the same time. I don't recall her doing it when ridden though. When she's startled she does a nice tight canter for a few strides - and she can trot but does it rarely. We just need to ride her more to determine her true range of isochronal gait and hopefully increase it because her pace is horrible so if she doesn't have much range we have to teach her to go straight to a canter and FORGET that pace.

When we first got Chinook she finoed and cortoed and had no largo - she's break to canter our of corto. Once she figured out what we wanted though and built her muscles she developed a smoking largo - not like our largo queen but still very fast for her little short legs and a good stride length also.

[Candice Burger]

Can I hear your thoughts on these subjects?
How many of you really think there are PERFECTLY gaited horses, who can do nothing but gait, and gait perfectly?

I'm curious as to how the paso owners on this continent came to the conclusion that paso horses should only gait if they are of good breeding and quality. That has been an erroneous assumption taught for decades.

Paso fino refers to the quality of the step not to the gait. It is "paso fino" gait only when showing and refers to a refined isochronic step. Outside of the showing realm "paso fino" means "fine step" and that encompasses more than the isochronic footfall. It's a nuance but critical in order to understand "paso fino" the breed and "paso fino" the gait.

The advent of "trocha" and "trote y gallope" was AFTER the introduction of the trotting gait through modern Lusitanos, Thoroughbreds, and Andalusians. The paso horse, no matter the origin, has always had the ability to perform broken diagonal gait.

The model for showing was borrowed from Puerto Rico where the ONLY gait shown was paso fino, although the horse had the ability to andadura, to corto, to largo, to canter, to walk, to sobre trote. I'm guessing that is how the misconception started. A "paso fino" breed is a breed that can perform the "paso fino" gait. The "paso fino" gait is a very collected, refined, isochronic gait. The "paso fino" gait expression has many acceptable variables to be "paso fino" in other countries. It is only in the USA that the acceptability of what is "paso fino" gait narrows. The horse makes the gait, not the gait making the horse. I belive the USA has it backwards.

[motorgypsy]

I would guess that the Colombian paso gaited horses have changed the scene since so many of them have the piston action, are more likely to be foot slammers and don't truly have the "fine" step of the good PPR paso fino. The US surely has narrowed the gait definition as far as requiring it to be neither lateral nor diagonal but what we've always wondered is why Puerto Rico allowed a lateral four beat but not a diagonal four beat paso gait? To us the center point is the ideal and the closer one is to that center point, the better the gait - all other things being equal of course. But there are so many nuances to the gait that most of us don't even notice. Low hands, medium hands, high hands, feather step, quiet croup, a "snap" to the gait vs a smooth transition. There really is so much more.

Now I don't understand where you picked up on the idea that some on here feel that only a well bred horse will gait well??

When it comes down to it we expect the gait to be even and smooth with good range of gait along with the usual things we want from a horse in general.


And now Candice how about a new thread on your trip!!!! We're dying to hear about it!!!!!

[Candice Burger]

Puerto Rico allowed ALL gaits of the paso when I was living there. The andadura, the corto, the largo, and the sobre trote. Sadly that class no longer exists. It was called the "General Condition" class. Today it's replaced by the "Pueblo" classes, but in my day, that was an entirely different class. The pueblo classes call for corto, largo, andadura, and walk.

No country has ever shown any gait except "paso fino". No reason to. It was understood what the paso breed was, what it could do outside of the show arena. The show was exactly for that, to show off the one gait that only a paso fino bred horse to could perform, the paso fino gait.

The sobre trote is not the same as the trocha. The sobre trote has the same frame of footfall but the cadence is different. It is very slow, low, plodding, extended. It is the gait to relax a horse in. The horses used to produce trocha were introduced at a different time period and not in the country Puerto Rico, so how could it be encouraged for exhibition? I'm finally convinced that the "pasitrote" or "pasitrocha" of paso breeding is not the same as the "trocha" exhibited in today's show classes. The expression is less trocha and more sobre trote yet still different.

I get my assumptions by reading the forums and from PFHA itself with it's many attempts to prevent registration of certain horses. PFHA has tried to prevent imported horses from registration, then horses of "unrecognized" registries and horses with less than 3 traceable generations. Not without some merit, but it seems that if gait were the driving force in determining so many other aspects of the breed, we'd see a much more serious response to paso shows than we do.

I'm glad I went to PR and need to go to more shows out of the country. I was reminded about what "paso fino" meant. I had lost that some where along the way. It's not always about gait.

[motorgypsy]

Ahhh - now I understand! I do know a fabulous PR stallion - wonderful gait, beautiful horse, who could not be registered PFHA because he was not one of the accepted registries. Of course everyone may remember our complaint about our PPR mare who cannot be DNA verified so cannot be PFHA registered but at least her foals can because she is from an accepted registry. It's for sure the four beat diagonal gait our paso finos do sometimes is not the real "trocha" of the Colombian trocha horse.

Is there video of some of the classes at the PR show and how much will it cost?