Back from Dulce Sueno Fair--Report

[Candice Burger]

I want to thank Cesar Alejandro Romero for his wonderful organization of the trip. We had a great time! He was a fantastic guide and host for our trip.


I found out some practicalities for anyone interested.

If farm tours and a show are part of the plan, try visiting the farms after the show and not before. Although the farms we visited were very gracious, it was obvious that many were preparing for the DS Fair that weekend. It was interesting to see them prepare, but at times, I felt we had disrupted their training schedule.

For hotels, plan to spend $85-$125/night/room. If other arrangements are desired (house rentals, bed and breakfast), NOW is the time to speak up. Be prepared to deal with management. The hotels were basically clean and well located for a pleasant visit, but management doesn't provide the same services as stateside. Alejandro had occasion to speak to management about that.

AC-we had it but there were times it didn't work the best and times where a cool breeze was better for the fresh air.

Temperatures--I stand corrected, motorgypsies. We went to visit a few farms in the higher elevations and it got very cool! I wished for a light jacket several times. Now whether there are places to stay is another question.

Prepare for impromtued invitations. We received several more invitations to visit farms, etc. while on our farm tour. It made for long days; fun but exhausting.

Driving--that's changed allot. Roads are better marked and many in better shape than I recall (30 years ago). With good directions, it shouldn't be a problem.

Hurricanes--Hmm, I'm still not sure about this. Even if the hotel management provides some assurance, I wouldn't bet a nickel on it. Unless I get some other feedback on this, it's travel at risk.

[Candice Burger]

More on the farms and horses. I've got to get my list but here's some I remember.

We visited Negro Kuilin's farm. Saw some Campenero mares, Lord de Soberano offspring, and many others. Lord is also providing very consistent trademark of traits. I asked to see some Cupido stock and, of course, they were palomino. One stallion in particular caught my eye, Ensueno Dorado. I'm not a color person, but he had the conformation, height, gait, correctness for any mare. A Replica de Majestuoso son in a Bucanero on Cupido mare. Another stallion that I haven't really seen yet was Puro d'Aqui of older lines--Don Toqui. Worth taking a look at.

We visited Ruben Reyes farm. Owner of Campenero and Salamero. The Campanero daughters have a great rear end and very consistent in their production. Salamero is beautiful and correct. A great find for anyone needing to fix some conformation. Several owners brought their horses and I'll get the details--but one is breeding specifically for sabino, the loud sabino and size. Replica de Majestuoso was not present but several of his offspring were presented. One colt looked promising as a brother/sister cross.

Ah yes, Jose Oliver's place with Don Coqui residing. He is producing well with inbreeding to his Bucanero lines. My favorite mare, Deseada was present and her half-sibling, Regalo. Both outstanding mares and won their respective classes and came in as champion mares #1 and #2. The fillies classes were won by a Contraversia de Labriego 4 year old and a Batallita del Coco (Replica's sire) 3 year old.

Finally, I was privileged to see the great Labriego and a son, Terremoto de Labriego. For 25 years, Labriego was looking very, very good. There was also a buckskin stallion that was interesting to me. Outstanding movements and conformation.

We met Carmen, breeder of Brujo de Kofresi, and her lovely mares.

At Tito Toro's, I saw another Labriego son, a horse that is producing the "finura" of gait consistently and with fantastic conformation. Contraversia de Labriego--inbreeding of Cialito to a full sister with some great other bloodlines. He also had a mare of Don Toqui breeding with classic gait. I almost forgot, Alazan de Plebeyo. A Plebeyo son in a Cuentas Claras mare. Had allot of expression from the mare.

At the show, I noted that the Espectacular line is carrying Cuentas Claras well and many Cuentas Claras mares are producing good stock for show.

I also met a fellow who had purchased a mare of very rare bloodlines to El Relicario and she was grey! He was planning to take her to an Onasis stallion. I wished we had time to see that as well.

[Pasogirlz]

Your trip sounds awesome and thanks for sharing all those tips...but you do realize....

:PICS

[Candice Burger]

Sorry, no pics and no videos. Maybe somebody else can provide the pics.

I quit carrying the equipment because I wouldn't remember the horses.

Ya'll just have to come with me on the next trip!

Sounds like you had fun Candice!

I once got the oppertunity to meet the breeders of I think Kofresi ( I think) He gots the same wierd name that I do.. Genaro , Nice people I met them in one of those PR chicken fights.

I wish I wasn't afraid of planes!

[papi_pasofino]

HELLO BOYS AND GIRLS;

papi_pasofino, is back

It's been a long time since I post or even reply to the forum but now It will be different.

For those who want to see pictures of the Dulce Sueños Fair please visit
pasofinoforum.com , maybe even register as a member and you can keep up to date on the latest competitions in Puerto Rico, the only bad thing is that it is entirely in Spanish, but the administrator is working on dual language, there are pics of all the events. I will speak to Hazel and the administrator to maybe place a caption on all the pictures in dual language, that should help.

haciendasantamarta.com at your service




color=blue][/color]

[Pasogirlz]

Which tab are the competition pix under?
And Welcome back! Hope you hang aruond for a while. 8-)

[SandyMM]

What a pleasure to see horses gaiting so cleanly and beautifully that you can _see_ the gait!

Here is a link to one page of pix... I love the 2nd pic down - in perfect '3 on the floor'... the perfect Paso pic, in my opinion... note the color of that horse's eyes and the white on its face.... I like it!

http://pasofinoforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=395&PN=1&FID=11&PR=3

[SandyMM]

I noticed in the classes - they have 'levels' of competition... A, B, C.... wouldn't that make sense!

Instead of A/O and open (which some people insist on calling 'pro'), you would progress through levels of competition according to the horses' abilities.... A horse would earn its way to the top levels of competition and the newer or less qualified could still have a place to start/compete.

I think PFHA needs one massive overhaul... and this could be a way to draw in a lot of the ones who haven't felt inclined to show previously.

Of course, the higher levels of competition _should_ earn more points as both an incentive and a reward for higher competitive levels.

[papi_pasofino]

The competitions are set up so an animal can move up to higher quality competitions, they start from CLASS C and as they win a number of competitions on that class or the championship of the day they move to the next class, were they normally encounter a higher quality of animals.

Everyone wants to have an animal competing at the Grand Championship level, but one must move from class to class untill that level is reached.

[Candice Burger]

Hey Sandy!

The Class A, B, C is a great idea but might be a logistical nightmare in the states. Recall, that the people who formed PFOBA now PFHA came with their horses from PR and they were familiar with the system.

The problem was creating the market for pasos in the states. Let's face it. Not many people on this forum are into "fino" classes as they are done stateside or in other countries. And how many people would know that paso finos can do more besides the paso fino gait? In the beginning, the shows were the main opportunity to market pasos. The classes were devised to demonstrate the versitility that the breed importers were aware of but no one else.

In PR and other countries, "fino" IS the show. So there is more opportunity for horses to develop properly and earn their positions as competitors. It's rare to see an owner ride his horse in PR and rare to see women compete. Replica's owner is one of the few that rides his horses in competitions. I had heard a rumor that one woman would be riding in DS Fair, but her trainer rode instead. So, imagine what the first PFOBA people were faced with--no women riders, no largo, no corto, no canter, no walk, no owners...would you be interested in a breed like that? The A/O came about because owners and trainers were trying to compete together. Obviously one group has an overall advantage. So now we have A/O classes.

Paso shows in other countries are NOT equal opportunity like PFHA. It's not the classes that I think are the problem, it's believing that Miami gives a rip about pleasure horses and that Wyoming has hundreds of fino horses. And because a fino horse in Wyoming must earn "points" to compete at Nationals that a Wyoming show has fino classes for the one horse to give it the opportunity to compete that it deserves. Once upon a time points had meaning, but nowadays it's as common as dirt.

Our shows are designed to culminate at one place once a year to crown a horse in all his glory just to watch it disappear from the show scene never to be seen or heard of again. In the USA, how many regional championships have "meaning"? Maybe a few, not many. Most regional shows are designed as the road to Nationals.

In other countries, there are horses competing in their teens that have won several fairs over and over again. There is no "one"; there are many and it is the horse that is consistent through the many that is king or queen. They don't depend on one win to make their horse great. There is no "qualifying" for the shows except for the Championship classes. No schooling colt had to be campaigned at previous shows to enter the Dulce Sueno Fair. No horse will be "qualified" for the show in Ponce in August. With that if a horse is not ready, it simply stays home. There is always another show another time.

I agree that PFHA's show system needs revamping, but our paradigm should be based on what we KNOW we need for the USA. Not copy catting other countries that don't have our issues.

[papi_pasofino]

Hello Candice;

Let me beggin by clearing a misconseption. A Puertorican pasofino is a horse that has all the different types of walk. fino, largo, corto etc.. Ramiro (the exowner of Replica) is not the only one who rides at a competition. but that is not the point. The actual point is, what can you do with a fino? can you trail ride him and them take him to a competition, Well contrary to popular beleive, the answer is YES!!! I myself own several pasofinos, and would you believe, I go horse back ridding every weekend, and guess what I take, one of my finos.

The problem is that the owners or even the breeders in the States, don't actually know what they have. You take a fino out for a ride and he is will be a happy horse, trainers believe that a fino belongs in a cage, a stall that does not allow him to strech him legs. For example I have taken "Freko de Flor Vanessa" ( Freko * Flor Vanessa) out to ride on a Saturday, come back at 01:00 AM Sunday and take him to compete that same Sunday. The outcome? you can see the first place trophies any time you like. (Freko has many championships, and I will remove him from competing this year, and will be used only for my pleasure and for breeding)

IN order to make the ABC system work you have to train and explain the system to whomever wants to compete. Those individual who left the Island and stayed away from that system, did it because it is easier to register a horse in open event than to earn your way to the next level. If a sytem is worked out, an all individuals concerned should be instructed and required to abide by the rules. That will benefit the race, it gives you a goal to achive and not just to take the horse to a competition for the sake of the competition.

cesar

[SandyMM]

I think the monster created by PFHA - not APF or PFOBA - is that there is now a class for every possible combination/age/sex/gait/skill imaginable... I'd rather see the A-B-C system in place and cut out 3/4 of the classes... If a horse is good enough to win and move up, that leaves room for other horses to take its place and gives them true competition. By the time a horse has won its way to the A level, it is competing against its 'own kind'.

That system could be modified to meet the needs of the American market, but most importantly, the breed would benefit from less stress, more sensible time tables for training and showing, and a realistic placing at shows.

[papi_pasofino]

By the way, for those of you who don't know, my avatar is "Don Roberto" who comes from the lines of "AREYTO" actualy one of my stalions. Again he is one of the reasons why Hacienda Santa Marta's purpose is to preserve the old blood lines. Have you seen anything more beautifull?

papi_pasofino

[papi_pasofino]

Hello Sandy;
My hat is off to you, I see you understand the reasoning behind the ABC.

Happy trails to you

[SandyMM]

I do love the old PPR bloodlines... I owned and showed a Kofresi son here in the US.

[Pasogirlz]

Thanks for joining us here and giving the great explaination of how the show works. I have never been to a show like that, but I like the concept a lot.

[Candice Burger]

I brought up the issue about owners, women, youths, etc. because they are not the norm in other countires. But here in the USA, not only they the "norm" they are the majority. We have more women who own, show, train in the USA with pasos than in any other country. We have many youths who happily compete in open classes with professionals. Here women and children fully expect to be able to compete at any capacity that they desire and "we" should encourage that.

And yes, I did meet women in PR that are more active with horse breeding and showing than their husbands. However, they weren't riding in shows and they weren't training. And there are young people actively showing in equitation. And there lies the discrepency between the USA and countries of origin. Youths were riding in equitation but there were no classes where they competed in fino. There were no youngsters in classes where the horses not the rider were judged.

Let me explain myself. I grew up on paso fino horses in Puerto Rico, so I am aware of the ABC system and the showing system and what these horses are. I grew up riding with friends that showed in fino and trail rode on other days with the same horse. The problem is not that I am not aware of this, but the general owner in the USA is not aware of this.

That was the problem facing the people who owned these horses and imported them to the USA. Do they follow the show system in other countries? How could they? The American dream is based on "B" Western movies starring Clint Eastwood. Imagine trying to explain to someone who had never been to PR or DR or COL, who had never seen or heard of "paso fino", who had never even owned a horse about what "paso fino" is, if they have NEVER seen it! Imagine how difficult it was for these people to try to explain this. If it weren't demonstrated to the public how would they know? They found out through our shows, that's how.

And I agree Sandy that I could live without MOST of the classes offered by PFHA. Again, I remind everyone that PFHA has turned into an "equal opportunity" horse club. So you have amateurs, owners, women, children, schooling classes, equitation, western classes, etc. to give every single horse owner, trainer, and breeder plus every horse an opportunity to show. Didn't say I liked it or agreed with it.

Because of my own background and history with pasos, I tend to prefer the show system I grew up with in Puerto Rico. But I must disagree with the perception that it will work stateside. I've seen enough shows to know that the classes are geared for trainers, for males, not for youths or women or amateurs or for other gaits beside fino. And if others that read this would be really honest with themselves they would probably not embrace a system that encourages only a small fraction of the breed abilities to be demonstrated.

So is this ABC system in the USA good for what classes? Fino? Performance? Pleasure? Youth? Amateur/Owner? We have over 100 classes now just using the 2 schooling classes and 1 mature class. Remember that Youth and A/O judge horses not riders. So are we to adapt the ABC system for some categories or all? I'm not saying this because I'm against it. I'm wondering which classes are proposed to be ABC and which are not? Just fino? Well we have fino stallions, fino mares we have fino youth, and then we have fino A/O stallions and fino A/O mares.

The ABC system works because it focuses on only one aspect of paso fino, the paso fino gait. Other countries who breed paso fino know about the horse but the United States still does not. Even sadder is I meet breeders in the USA who have been involved for decades that do not understand the breed for what it is in other countries. The very reason why I am campaigning for more to join me in my travels to both PR and DR.

I also disagree with the comment about it being "easier" to register horses in open events in the USA. While I may have been in PR at the time that PFOBA and APF were created, we communicated regularly with our friends stateside that were members since the organizations' inceptions. It wasn't easy to determine how to fashion a horse show stateside. Difficult decisions were made. PFOBA was only 4 years old when we moved back to the United States. There were problems even then about what system to use, why, what classes to create, etc. Many wanted the ABC system back then. Others wanted to show the public what a paso could do besides the fino gait.

To me the PFHA show system has it's problem because of the "equal opportunity" mentality. Recall PFHA is membership driven based on popular vote. It is the PFHA members that created the classes for what they are today. I remember a year where it was proposed to create a "corto, fino" class for horses that couldn't largo!!!! How ridiculous is that?! Or the past year where there was the idea of having separate trail classes for men and women! As long as PFHA members believe that every owner and horse is deserving of a class to show in, we will continue with this obscenity.

The United States has many, many gaited breeds not just paso fino. They have many, many other breeds that compete for the equine market. The USA is NOT like PR or any other country that has paso finos. You do not see Walking horses or Saddlebreds or Foxtrotters or Quarter horses or Arabians or Morgans, etc. ridden down a common road on a Saturday afternoon in Puerto Rico. You see pasos or the "pueblo" type horse which is paso based. We need a show format that can compete with that.

I agree, Cesar, if more people in the USA would travel and become better educated about the breed and the showing system elsewhere, we may be better equipped to deal with the issues in the USA. Personally, as a paso owner I am not interested in trying to mimic other breed shows either.

Let me be clear because many think that when I debate it's based on my own beliefs. They are not. I bring up issues that MUST be thought about and discussed to come to a reasonable conclusion. I bring them up for the reason that if the conclusion made is unsavory no one can use the excuse "I didn't know about that" or the favorite "why wasn't that brought up and discussed". Well, I'm bring it up in every public format I can find that will let me have a voice.

Personally, I see some very good concepts in PFHA shows that have gotten out of hand. I see some advantages to the ABC system as well. Having grown up with pasos in PR, I prefer that system, but because the USA has narrowed it's definition of what "fino" is, there is a lack of tolerance in range and variation in gait expression unlike other countries. So I think the first step is to get more people to see "fino" for what it truly is in PR, DR, and COL. THEN begin revamping our show progarms.

[papi_pasofino]

Helo out there;

It is not my intention to change anything, or even to induce people on to changing anything.What I like to say is that what happend in Dulce Sueños is not normal, although the Organization of the Fair was excelent.

First of all, young riders compete in a class of their own, by ages
second there are events for colts of different ages
and so forth. there are events for just about everyone and anything, it is just that it is done systematicaly. and please don't get offended. it is not my intention. were you the person in front of me at the fair on Sunday?

best regards

Cesar

[SandyMM]

I was able to visit Puerto Rico many, many years ago and went to one Paso show. Unfortunately, I don't remember much about it other than it seemed to be in a baseball stadium close to San Juan. I wish I had been better prepared for the trip to better appreciate who and what I was seeing. No internet back then! ;-)

Hopefully, we can be at the Nationals in Ponce this year - thanks to Candice's efforts!

[papi_pasofino]

Hello Sandy;

A lot of people come to Puerto Rico to see horses, and for some reasons they always go to the same breeders, and see they same horses, go back to the States and talk about the same horse. Did you know that there are several other breeders that have better horses?

I was planning on coordinating a week long tour, advertize it in the internet, and if people come, show them the real thing. Not the same two farms people see. When the group that went to see Dulce Sueños came they were shown the selected Farms. This is done with all the intentions in the world. When Rafel Albelo came to the Island, he went to my farm, he saw "Don Roberto" along with the rest of the herd and saw something different, he saw fillies and colts that are the off springs of my Stalions. and was impressed. The reason for that is that, this not so luxirius farms have the high quality old blood, and we don't catter to any organization, We breed quality animals. and enjoy doing so.

Like I asked Candice sometime ago, if you ever come to the Island give me a call I will be glad to prove what I'm saying.

[Pasogirlz]

Uh oh....I think think he just invited us to his farm. :jumpy He doesn't know we will all come like the barn weasels we are. :lol: Next time I'm in PR, I'm there you better belive. ;-)

[papi_pasofino]

Hello;

Not only to my farm, but several others that are not shown to the general public. And of course you are all welcome to my farm any time.

cesar

[SandyMM]

Cesar - I would _love_ to see your horses and others who breed with the same ideas in mind - to preserve the best of old bloodlines... sign Greg and me up the first chance we get to visit! :-) Hopefully, we'll be there for the National Show in Popnce in August.

Here is a head shot of my Kofresi son... Antares
http://www.arrowheadpasofinos.com/AntaresOK.jpeg
and a collage of Koresi and Antares.. a little family resemblance... :D
http://www.arrowheadpasofinos.com/Resources/KofresiAntares.jpg

[papi_pasofino]

Just let me know ahead of time when you are comming, and it will be set up, you can do it before or after the fair. and again you, your husband and family are welcome.

cesar

ps; a clear similarity, long live the old blood

[Pasogirlz]

How about posting some of pix of your horses for us Ceasar. :D *complete w/ pedigree info 8-)

[papi_pasofino]

Lori;

It might be easier for you if you enter;

http://www.haciendasantamarta.com

there are most of the animals listed, that is my page

had a little problem with it but is now working

[Pasogirlz]

Which of your horses are your favorites? Any that are extra special to you?

[papi_pasofino]

I have taken special care for most of them, but in all honesty, I have to say.
"Don Roberto, Freko, Concentida mia, don cesar, Yukiyu, and Nakahomy

Although, all the ofsprings are great, I have taken them to competitions and have taken the first place with them, so it is a matter of continuying the breeding the way I have done it so far

[Pasogirlz]

Really nice horses

Consentida
http://www.haciendasantamarta.com//images/listing_photos/13_copy%20(2)%20of%20competencia%20la%20macarena%2 07-17-04%20002.jpg

Don Roberto
http://www.haciendasantamarta.com//images/listing_photos/3_don%20roberto%202.jpg

I had a hard time finding the others. Did you know your home page does not switch to English when you click it?

[papi_pasofino]

Yes I know it dores not switch to english, but that was a part that was never finished, I'm trying to get the switches in both languages and explain inside, and you should be able to see them all in TODOS

[SandyMM]

Did you know your home page does not switch to English when you click it?
¿Porqué no puedes leerlo en español, Srta Lori?

[Pasogirlz]

I looked under Todos. :-? Where is Freko, Yukiyu, and Nakahomy? I really wanna see Freko. He is your main stallion?

[papi_pasofino]

AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE WERE THEY SHOW THE "TODOS" THERE IS A TAB THAT SAYS THAT THERE IS TWO PAGES, HIT PAGE 2

i HOPE IT WORKS

[Pasogirlz]

I did go to the second page.
This was the only info listed. :(
Unless Freko de Flor Vanessa is Freko the stallion?

Registros Color Modalidad Sexo Precio Edad

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AVISPA DE BAIROA
ALAZANA Paso Fino Yegua $10,000.00 14 años
DON ROBERTO
ZAINO Paso Fino Caballo $500.00 SERVICIO LFG 8 años
PRETENCIOSA DE CUENTAS CLARAS
ZAINA Paso Fino Yegua $12,000.00 USD 14 años
FREKO DE FLOR VANESSA
ZAINO OSCURO Paso Fino Caballo $500.00 el servicio LFG 12 años

[papi_pasofino]

YES FREKO IS THE STALION,

[Pasogirlz]

ok, but it says for Freko de Flor Vanessa, that the sire is Freko...but I don't see his pic...only Freko de Flor Vanessa..

Oh wait, found him at the bottom of that page. :oops:

I like him, he is very handsome. Muy guapo 8-)
http://www.haciendasantamarta.com//images/listing_photos/1_freko%20finca.jpg

[papi_pasofino]

I HAVE NOT HAD THE TIME TO UPDATE MY PAGE, I HAVE BEEN WORKING AT MY JOB AND THE FARM, WITH THE DORADO COMPETITION COMMING UP IT IS NOT EASY, I THINK THERE ARE ABOUT 14 OR SO HORSES LISTED. BY NEST MONTH IT WILL BE UPDATED

CESAR

[papi_pasofino]

THE OLD FREKO DIED MANY YEARS AGO, FREKO DE FLOR VANESSA IS THE FREKO I'M TALKING ABOUT, HE CHAMPIONED AS A COLT AND AS AN ADULT.

[PasoJoy]

Here is the stallion, Freko...I had the great pleasure of meeting the kind man who owned him, and he sent me this pic of Freko...a beautiful PR stallion!!! :D My scanner is busted, or I would scan the other pic I have :mad: to...
http://pasofyd.smugmug.com/photos/60919844-S.jpg
Freko, owned by Diego Suarez...

[Pasolady]

He is so very handsome, is FREKO!

Thanks for all the wonderful pictures. I love the white attire, tieless...is that because of the warm humid climate. We should adopt their mode of dress. It seems so much more suitable to the breed. I see the dark jackets for the fino!

We could all learn a lot from our Puerto Rican friends and neighbors. I hope to visit there in a year or so...when I was there in the mid 80's i did not then own Pasos, but it would definitely be different my next visit.

I enjoy this thread very much.

[Tracy]

Hello Cesar, I am new to this site and it is great to be able to read what you believe and know of the paso fino. I made arangments to go to Puerto Rico Just to see the paso culture. My contact could not make it so i enjoyed your beautiful island anyway. I really enjoyed seeing the pasos ride on the side of the highways. I am sad to say I have recently sold a mare That was great. I am learning my bloodlines but i do have her son as my herd stallion. I would like to send you a pic but need to figure it out first.