Agh!!! Can't get Mia into the stocks I made - HELP!!!

[darcy]

So I made up some real simple stocks yesterday for Mia's culture and biopsy.... Just a bow at the front with a bar at shoulder height and a single bar along each side, and a pipe I can slide in and pin at the back.... And she will not put more than her two front feet in.

After I finished making it yesterday I put it in her pen, then I haltered her and took her for a grazing walk which she really enjoys(we walked right past the stocks which she didn't seem at all disturbed by them)

She's always been so good about being led, we pick our way around trees, under branches, over piles of stuff without incident. So as we are headed back for some practice loading in preparation for the vet visit I'm thinking this is going is a piece of cake and feeling so proud of my ability to handle this mare......

Then we get in the pen, we walk right up to it and she stops. I allow her to stop and smell and check it out, when she seems to have smelled everything, lowered her head then I keep my hand on the lead rope towards the front of the stocks and reach back to tap her on the butt for a step forward, and she moves her hindquarters over out of my reach.... If I drop my hand with the lead so I can get further back to ask for straight FORWARD movement she backs up with me. I tried walking into the stocks and out the front, nope... Then I stood there and let her think about going in without letting her escape for at least a half hour(seriously, I'm not kidding, I wanted her to go in without having to force her in, in any way)

Then I went and got a bit o' grain, I didn't want to go there but could see we weren't getting anywhere.... Took off her halter and sat at the front of the stocks with the grain which she nickered for. Everytime she would try to cheat, I would gently move her back to the back of the stocks. I did this for over an hour.

Then I got my stock whip so I could ask her for a step forward w/o moving back, I'd never needed it before... She acts like she is terrified by it, though I have seen her previous owner lounge her using a pole..... Then I started to get really discouraged when I realized that I was going to have to desensitized her to the pole before we could even get around to dealing with the stocks....

Anyway I had to call and cancel the vet's appt, but I really need to get this done soon! But then I start thinking, "If I can't get her in the stocks, why am I even planning to breed her!" Ack! I know I'm just having a low moment, but I am frustrated!

[Terry Wallace]

OPEN the front of the stock, don't try to put her into a "box" ...make it look like she can walk through, and be sure to walk her through a few times before you or someone else, puts the pipe across chest & rear... try it in both directions... P.S...be aware that your vet can still get kicked if you are only using a pipe for the rear of the mare.... you may need two or three pipes...object being to make sure she cannot kick past the pipes...that she does indeed kick the pipe..if she kicks at all..

If you have two panels..you can use them for a stock-loading chute....

Put a plastic shopping bag on the end of your whip and smack the ground behind her...do not smack her...probably not neccessary.

[Terry Wallace]

Darcy...check out what my great Hubby worked on this past Sunday...a secure latch even my tired, arthritic hands can snap shut quick!
Two pieces of cold-rolled welded to a piece of channel....that travel through two pipe "sleeves"...
(Stage one)...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/twobarwpaso/Stocksbacklatch.jpg

Then...burn holes in the drill steel frame...
Then fabricate a LOCKING handle that slides the pins right into the holes....
What a guy...he helps me out so MUCH..he is always fabricating with my best interest in mind...! (I'm soooo darn lucky) :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/twobarwpaso/stocksreardoordetails2.jpg

all I'm going to do now, is wrap that handle with foam tape...for a soft grab...like they use on bicycles and go-karts here.

[Terry Wallace]

Darcy...we got our drill steel from Western Scrap/Western Steel on Drennan Loop 719-392-6821. It is USED drill steel...sells by the pound...one person can NOT pick up one section..it weighs a LOT...we used a skid-steer to move it.
It has to be welded with a stick welder..it is magnetized and too hard to weld with a wire-feed welder...it won't penetrate.
Rick brought it home on the trailer in this photo collage....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/twobarwpaso/Stockbuild1BB.jpg

[LynnG]

sounds like she may be claustrophobic... I can't say any of mine like getting into the stocks...most do okay as long as they can see a buddy. Some may panic and jump over the front. In that case be sure your front bar can be released and drop if needed. The two horses that don't do well with shots, I put them in my stocks...now if I put them there they know bad news is ahead for them. Other wise I use it for breeding exams, and some ai. I have found if the mare is accepting of ai...I just cross tie them in the barn hallway and do it there.

You may want to put some padding material on the exposed metal too. It is also like a horse that doesn't like to get into a "confining" horse trailer...
If a horse doesn't stand well in the stock or for a vet repro exam, a light dose of tranqulizer makes the whole process easier on everyone. :lol:

[Cindy]

Removing the front bar is a good idea. How far apart are the side rails? I don't know if they are movable or not but if they are you may try making them wider to teach her to go in. Some stocks are made so that you can open the sides up wider in order to get the horse in more easily and then close everything up. I would say just make it as big as you can while getting her used to it. And, as Lynn said, you can alway tranqu her and then put her in there if all else fails. But, you may not even need to use them. I do not have stocks here and do all the reproductive work with the horses tied in the wash rack. I have done many, many horses without stocks and have never had a problem. In fact, I have only ever had one filly that we needed to tranqu in order to get the repro work done and that was because she just could not be still. She was a maiden mare and would just dance around too much to get anything done.

[jan k]

We do not have stocks either and our vet will stack bales of hay to the side and behind if necessary. And will tranquilize if the horse is too nervous. I never heard of a vet requiring stocks to do an exam.

[Terry Wallace]

Both my vets use a stock to do exams...mostly it is for their safety. My new stocks are a copy of the CSU stocks, which one of my vets had. The other vet uses a Preifert stock... those are about $600. Fairly sturdy, especially if mounted in concrete.

P.S.... you won't need to pay sedation if you have stocks..otherwise, add $ for the exam to pay for that sedation if needed.

[darcy]

The stocks are the vet's idea, and he said one bar across the back was okay, he just doesn't want to get a full blow if she kicks. I personally think she will do better just cross-tied. The sides are 30" apart on the inside, wider than one stall in my horse trailer. I welded the front in but I may need to take it out and fix a pipe like I have on the back side.

I like the hay bale idea, maybe I'll run that by him! I really don't think Mia is scared of the racks, it's more of a "you know I don't need to go in there!" And she has a ton of Hilaches in her so there is plenty of that "there better be a good reason for this" in her.

I'm putting her hay and grain in there to make her get used to it. She feels entirely comfortable sticking her head in there everywhich direction but will not put her feet in.

[CarolU]

You can also use a panel against a fence like MG's squeeze post. One thing I've seen done that works well, is stand them in a doorway (like stall door) and the vet can stand to one side and reach around.

I am guessing she's claustrophobic too. I'd lead her though your stock and reward her heavily...do repeatedly until it is no big deal to be there.

[cowboy ed]

darcy, nothing makes a horse put on the brakes quicker than tapping it on the butt to try to move it forward. you can move a horse forward much better by tapping on the neck, just in front of the withers. work with her on this. make her walk past objects, including the stocks, and if at anytime she doesnt want to move forward or tries to shy away from something, tap her on the neck to drive her forward. using this cue, make her walk back and forth near the entrance to your stocks, until she will calmly walk by. then ask her to walk into the stocks. if she doesnt, tap her on the neck to move her forward. she may move forward a bit, then back up. settle for a little progress, then repeat the process until she is walking further into the stocks.

[Mellifluous]

I have never used stocks with Lady - Plus I don't have any. The vet has palpated, taken culture samples, flushed her 7 days in a row, etc. I just stand and hold her, just like I do for the farrier or anything else. She is fine with it. No drugs or stocks needed.

Now Kevin (hubby) on the other hand...well he just turns green and bug-eyed when Lady gets her "mare work" done. Maybe I should confine him in case he faints and hurts himself. :lol:

I guess if your vet is not comfortable? Do you think your mare would act up if not in stocks? It might be worth a try without if your vet is willing.

[LynnG]

Another alternative is to get some breeding hobbles. If I have a mare who I think may kick, I put them on. Some gals are more touchy and get tense about breeding exams and ai. Even some I crosstie that may be questionable, I have put a bale of hay behind them, in case a back leg comes back while I am ai-ing. Most do okay if they are in heat.. and they know and trust me, and can then relax.

I would definitely have the front part as removeable in an emergency. If the mare tries to jump out and hangs on it..with her weight on top...you'll not be able to do much unless you can pull a release and let the front (bar) or whatever drop down. I have seen it happen more then once if the mare panics, and you need to be able to act fast. Another reason to have padding and a rounded edge where a horse may get hung vs straight metal. My vet's stocks ...front part is a round bar with holes and they put a metal pin in it to hold it in place from underneath. All they have to do is pull the pin out to get the front bar to drop.

Hope this info helps some....

[darcy]

Got all four feet in the stocks last night!! I have been asking for all four feet but not the entire body so far, I'll see how comfortable she is tonight. The first time she went all the way in she immediately backed out in a hurry, I let her, reassured her, got her all calm and then asked he to come in again, which she did. Then I brushed her, which she loves, and got her to relax, then when I walked off she backed out again, but slowly and not in a panic. Then I asked her in again and gave her a little extra grain.... Made her get all four feet in again this morning and felt like I could get that much pretty reliably, so I'll just try to get a little more in each day.

And no, I don't want to use the stocks, the vet insists. I think it is going to make her more nervous than me just holding her. In the end though it is a good exercise, I want her to trust me whenever I ask her for anything so whether it is needed or not.

She's seems more concerned about being trapped in there than the actual process of going in there. So when I've got most of her in there I am spending a lot of time massaging her butt muscles and playing with her tail to unclamp it.

I've never seen this horse explode, then again I haven't had to or tried to force her past her limits, but I want to get her REAL calm before I put the butt bar in, I think if I shoved her in there and locked it up she would absolutely freak.

Ed, any other forward cues for ground work? I have Mia taught that if we are walking along and I touch her on her neck just in front of her shoulder that she is getting too far ahead of me and to slow down, come back even to my shoulder or as part of my stand command to allow me to go in front of her. If I touch both shoulder and behind the girth she side passes, otherwise yields whichever end I ask. What about on the "girth"? Any recommendations for turning that into a forward button on the ground?

I feel like Mia needs forward work anyhow, she seems to respond to all pressure by backing up or standing still. In some aspects it is great I can do most "maintenance" type stuff w/o a lead, once I've got her attention she won't leave me unless it's something she's not comfortable with yet. But even in the saddle I feel her great reluctance to START moving, once the feet are moving everything is fine, but it seems like she has a hard time accepting that it's okay to move, that I won't get mad. Can excessive training to stand or be tied cause a horse to be nervous about moving? Whenever her previous owner had to do anything with her big horses she would halter all of them and tie them to the trailer for like 8-12 hours. That seemed a little extreme to me. I mean I appreciate a horse knowing how to stand quietly and patiently, but I can't imagine asking anything to stand still for that long!!

[cowboy ed]

darcy, what i would recommend is tap on the neck for her to go forward and if she gets ahead of you, just put your stick in front of her nose. if you have taught her to back well, she will back off when you just wave your stick in front of her nose a bit. i dont think cueing her forward at the girth would be as effective.
sounds like she handles pretty good, and you are making progress getting her in the stocks, so keep it up!