touchey feeley squeaky horses?

[LynnG]

Do you have a touchey feeley horse? Many horses have certain more sensitive areas .....heads, legs, ears, belly. I got a couple like that!

Thin-skinned horses...more reactive sensitive to shots? I got one of those!

BUT what about ones that may "squeal" when you touch them?
Okay I have one of these too! I am trying to figure out why a horse would make a squealy or squeaky sound like that when you reach out to touch them. Is it a trust issue? This is when the horse is loose, not when haltered... she is fine then. Anyone else have a horse that reacts when touched with a squeak or squeal....? or could it be a hormonal (mare)???!!!!!!

I'm working on the trust issue with her ...about being touched and it being a good pleasant experience ... food being the reward if she doesn't squeal and I can touch her on the neck, side or face without her being haltered. If she reacts with a squeal or attitude, I walk away with the food. Did I mention moody too...working on that too! I think it all the same issue with her. She doesn't have really any horse friends; she is afraid of them if they approach her ...well probaly with good reason there, since she is still the farm newbie resident. The stallion likes her most of the time..she does like him all the time!
:roll:

[Boyd R]

Porcy is that way with other horses but not us. And yes I know they do that but she is an exceptional squeeler.

[Abejita]

I had one STB yearling that was like that.She would take it a step farther at times and try to kick depending what you were doing.She would squeal when touched as in grooming ,even just before you touched her..shoulder, middle rear it didnt matter where you started..for the first touch or two..I think with her it was a dominance thing..By the time sale came around I could do what needed to be done.When the Swedes who bought her came to see her..I was holding her and they went to pick up a hoof ..she squealed..he jumped..I leaned down and picked up her hoof..They asked if I wanted to move to Sweden while they had her in training. SHe was always somewhat witchy.I crossed paths with her about 3 years later when she was sent to the farm I was at then for breeding.SHe was not EASY to palp,but not dangerous or squealy

[CarolU]

Interesting Lynn. I've had horses that flinch everytime you first touch them (will get over it with repeated touching, but again sensitive for tomorrow's first touch), but none that squeal. From your description, it makes you wonder if she was never herd socialized.

You know there are people (very rare) who have pain to touch all the time. Doesn't really sound like her issue, but could be related.

I'll be interested to read other people's experiences with similar horses. I've never experienced this before.

[LynnG]

She doesn't do it when she has been haltered and caught. Only when loose and I approach her. Its almost like she thinks she is going to experience pain by being touched. Yes, she is pretty afraid of the other horses if they approach her...its like she wants a horse friend but doesn't know how to go about it. She isn't shy with approaching Emperador over a fence...she is rather intrigued with him!

I groomed her yesterday, touched up trimming her 4 hooves, and saddled her (hasn't been ridden in a few years)..mainly to see her reaction...pretty fine with it..just showed it all to her first, including letting her smell all. I took for a short trail walk with saddle on (me leading). She was so funny when we got up to the little ravine to cross. It was like "What is this!" I crossed her thru it 3 times..first two times..she went down the steep side then jumped across. 3rd time she walked down into it without jumping. Just doing some trust building one-on-one exercises with her.

[jmtw]

Clarissa squeals if one of the other horses gets too close.
Generally right before she kicks at them.
Never squealed at me, though.

[GeorgeGuns]

My gut reaction is to agree that no she hasn't been properly socialized, and her socialization with humans was.. not right, not wrong, but not right for her. She may be a closet alpha but lacking proper social skills can't even relate to it except to squeal - however even an alpha in the herd will accept a good human alpha, and for her this happens when the halter goes on - she gives up her union card, probably excellent work ethics, has probably known good fairness from humans BUT hasn't been able to express her real identity. IOW she was trained before she figured out what being in the herd means, and IMO that's a bit backwards. I'd be interested to know jsut what her past is and if this is indeed the case - from her point of view. Humans often don't factor in the fact that a horse may have a quirky perspective or a particular emotional need that gets lost because the horse is also inherently too nice to admit it.

What I would do is get her in with a fair alpha or second in command horse only, and spend a lot of time in a round pen on total horse terms, body language and all that, not schooling in our idea of it, but really diving into the horse language thing. TTEAM excersises can help her with confidence - which I think she may be lacking - not in the sense that she is not bold for the rider, but in herd situations. Her reactions to the herd are "I don't know what to do I don't know what to do!!!!" I also wonder if maybe she has been laid down in the past? I've met a few horses like this - they are nice, too nice to show that even humane laying down was too much for them, they have an opinion until you have a lead on them and then they are just a little too docile. Find ways for her to have an opinion and for you to show her that her opinion is valued and respected no matter how good or bad it is! (This is actually transoforming one horse I know like this)

I know this is a lot of speculation, just trying to think of why a horse would be as you describe. Its mental for sure.. if it was physical it would carry over into haltered time or riding.

[LynnG]

Yesterday in the little herd of 4, which included a mare with baby..which "this touchy feely mare" has designated herself as the godmother for the foal. The other was a 9 month filly. The touchy feeley mare (first time I have seen) and the 9 mo filly got where they were scratching each others shoulder for about 15 minutes. Poor filly got too much white hair in her mouth from the grooming process. Then the filly dropped her head like to smell the mare, and the mare bit her on the back. So that ended that bit of herd socialization! So she can boss one other horse. She also today with new people vistors present walked up like she wanted to be petted. I told them to just let her smell them..which they did, and she proceeded to follow us around the paddock area. I told them not to touch her... due to her past of reacting to that when loose. She is doing some better. Just take some time. I think she would like to eb one of the herd, just not sure how to go about it...and my herd are socially strong in their pecking order.

Coreen you have some good points too..I enjoyed reading everyone's comments. thanks!

[Cindy]

Lynn, since I know the mare, I have been reading this with interest. I had no real opinions on your question until just now. This is what hit me. I think that possibly this mare is used to being higher up. I do not know this for sure, but, having worked with her, I know her personality. I think she is maybe having a hard time with not being higher up in the curent herd and was simply trying to be higher up with SOMEONE and that someone just happened to be a human. I think the squeeling noise was meant to "put you in your place" so to speak as an experiment to see how it would work. Don't have any idea if there is any validity whatsoever to my thinking, but it was a thought anyway. If the theory holds out, once she establishes a better pecking order, IF she establishes a better pecking order, I see the squealing at humans going away. To my knowledge, she has not done this before.

I know that her former owner likes to keep his horses in pairs in the pasture so she is not used to having so much competition.

[PattiB]

I worked a palomino filly once that squeeled whenever she didn't want to do something. This started as a yearling, showing in BF if I asked her to back or move over she squeeled. I nicknamed her Miss Piggy :lol: She had been spoiled by the owner who called her Pudding breath :shock: I showed her in the Breeder's Sweepstake and she squeeled when I asked to lunge both directions, I think the judges were laughing at her. Even now she will still squeel if she doesn't like what you ask.

[CarolU]

Maybe it is her way of communicating...something. I had a mare that would squeel and kick up her heels when we took of for timed events. She loved to run, so it had to be a 'lets go' or 'it's about time' squeal. But, years later, you'd go out to catch her, offer her a carrot...she'd get about 3 feet from you and wheel and squeal and kick up her heels and run off. I am sure then it was a "ha ha ha HA HA ha " squeal. LOL

Zar *snorts" instead of squeals.

[LynnG]

I just haven't had one do this before, so trying to figure her head out, and why? I have all the time in the world (well not really), but will just give her time. She feels good though, she'll run and kick her heels up and feel her oats...like letting loose. My main herd would eat her alive..so she is by herself at night but with the little less aggressive small herd during the day. When i got her I asked her owner how was she in the pecking order...he chuckled and said she would like to be boss, but is not! ....I find it interesting the one horse the young filly who would be her friend she ended up biting hard on the back at the end of the rubbing each other on the shoulder....so to teach her who is boss or because the filly stopped rubbing her and dropped her head to smell her further.

She may want to boss me...but I think she knows better then to try beyond the squeal. (same with most of the other horses..she acts tough until there is a face-off, and then runs). I am the one who feeds her and controls how much she gets...and she is on a controlled diet. I believe she did find it quite interesting the first time I worked on her hooves trimming. I could feel the stare coming from her like what are you doing DOWN there! She behaved perfectly though! She has very good ground handling manners and will do most anything asked!

I wonder too with the stallion being on site (who she is intrigued with) has gotten her hormones in gear, and this could be also as sign of that when touched... how mares and stallions squeal at each other.

She is most part a happy camper with everything, besides she would like more grain. She gets senior feed and grass hay.

Oh, other times I have heard horses squeal like this is a young horse feeling good and you turn them loose and they turn, squeal, run off bucking and kicking (and sometimes farting). guess that word is okay to say.....

PS. Okay I'm contemplating all this more... I do handle the stallion daily......from stall to paddock run area and back at night? What if his smell stays on me, could this be a factor? I do rub on him regularly when handling him and remove his stall blanket he wears at night????????????? I'm sure I have his smell on me unless I have changed clothes during the course of the day. I wonder if that could be a factor I hadn't thought about before. She is TOTALLY intrigued and fascinated with him, and yes there is squealing going on when they talk over the fence. The 2 times she was bred, I believe were both with shipped semen AI. :?:

well all some good thoughts from everyone for me to think about it more... I do know at feeding time if I appraoch her with her food in a bucket and I reached to touch her and she squealed, I turned and walked away with the feed bucket as to not reward her squealing. I would try a bit later. She had stopped squealing some times...but not all together. She's just a funny girl at times.......and I do feel she wants to be one of the gang of horses. The can be cruel so unless the alpha horses are removed, I don't see that happening. Its the horses that were raised here vs the outsiders! and the ones raised here learned from their elders still here.

The grulla mare with the filly Marietta, they are kept form the main herd, because that mare is terrifed of the "herd" ..she stood up to them over the fence the first week after when the filly was born...but not now. She is in the less aggressive herd. I would like the foal to be more social with the 9 month old filly...but she sticks close to mama. It will happen. "Miss Squealy" above would steal her if she could though..she would be happy as a clam with that baby to herself. She's the designated babywatcher.

[Cindy]

I am sure there is a hormonal factor at work here as well so could be. And, yes, she was AIed before. Are you breeding her this year? I bet she will be different in foal.

[AliceG]

I have a neighbor with a mare who squeals whenever she is mounted (by a person to ride). This mare has been evaluated for pain by the vet and pronounced fine. She doesn't mis-behave during the mounting, except for the squeal - and she squeals like a banshee! She is wonderful to ride - the squealing thing has become just a part of her personality.

[LynnG]

I just did a little experiment with this gal in a large turnout paddock wgere the littel herd of 4 are. I walked in and walked towards her. She stood there and let me touch and rub her face. No squeal. Then I reached on her neck to rub her, and she moved and walked away. I let her go about 15 feet, where she stopped. I then walked toward her more boldly and she walked away...and then kept walking as I just basicly was pushing her along with my presence being there.

Then I stopped and walked away from her. She stopped when I stopped. I walked back where I had started and squatted down...the 9 month "friend" filly approached me to see what I was doing (she's sensitive to be touched too, but no squealing, just a sensitive type filly)....well, then guess who immediately walked to me also! So I had two horses each smelling an outreached hand. I got up and walked a distance, the filly soon followed after I squatted lower. (not threatening being low, plus they aren't used to seeing me smaller /low down)

The black farm dog Smut was getting into the act now. he stops and lets the 1 mo. filly walk up to him and smell him ..smut is smaller..(first I had seen that her approach something living outside of mom).

Anyway it seemed when the 9 mo filly was gracing me with her presence...you know "who" would come over to see (like a magnet) what it was all about. No squealing today... she did still have her boundaries where she wanted to be touch without being caught. But if the filly (her new friend) would do it, she must do it too... can't be all too bad. :roll:

horses do the darndest things!
;-)

[Cindy]

Sounds like she just needed a friend.

[motorgypsy]

WOW Lynn - our three year old filly is also like this and Cindy knows this one too but she makes this "UUHH" sound when you try touch her. She is fine with face and neck and now shoulders but boy she didn't want to be touched at all for about six months. If you touched her she acted like you were touching her with a cattle prod. She'd do the "UUHHH" thing and bolt. She also is near the bottom of the herd but does have one mare she can boss around and buddy with and the rest of the herd have accepted her and will let her graze close to them now. They are all tied for feeding so she's not picked on at feeding time. But it really is strange the way they react to touching!

Chinook didn't want to be touched but she wasn't afraid of it, she just didn't like people. Silken goes into panic mode but will also follow you around and if you go toward you she would keep the 3 foot safety zone between you and her always. She now lets us touch her and will walk up and let us catch her but it's been a really long stuggle. If you figure anything out please post what works because we're just muddling along with her. She's much better but still has quite a way to go.

[Mellifluous]

Lynn- have you noticed Ladybug making little eeeepp type noises when startled or happy?

I have noticed that Phoebe will make small noises in these instances and Maggie did too. Phoebe does it when I dump her feed, groom or if I do something that catches her off guard. It is a very soft noise and you have to listen closely to hear it.

Don't know why she does it :confused

[CarolU]

Mel, I'm sure hormones havea lot to do with it. Nature would tell a mare she needs ALL her feed (maybe a few other horse's feed too!) for her foal. If you think of natural selection, the most successful mares are the ones who best provide for their foal, and this includes when they are pregnant. The hormones of a mare in heat will tell her she's going to become pregnant, and to be a little more protective of her feed.

[motorgypsy]

Yeah - the caught "off guard" UHHHHHH! sound. None of our other mares or boys do this but Silken. Many are very chatty - especially at feeding time - but none make other noises when handled, groomed, gooched or anything else.

[LynnG]

Ladybug is into deep breathing, and then lets it all out with a big sigh pretty routinely when handled, especially ridden. She's still dealing mentally with abusive type headgear that had been used on her by a "jack darn it" previous owner. so any pressure on her head, mouth or face..she goes into heavy breathing not relaxed mode...she is SO much better though then to start with. She wouldn't even walk to start with..parncing, side stepping, etc. she is my bridleless riding mount..see why! and then she can relax...nada on her head!

[darcy]

My Mia is a snorter like Zar, small guttural whinnies if she's happy or asking me for something, but is is alot like Zar in the have to ask permission to touch, then she is fine with almost anything. But unlike Zar my Mia is not dominant at all. One thing I have wondered about is when I play with her ninnies, she will stretch her neck very long and low, I can't tell if she likes it or if it is uncomfortable but she knows she not supposed to move.

Correen really touched on something for me when she was talking about some horses being too nice to tell you what bothers them. My Mia is like that, she is so afraid to disobey. For example if I'm grooming her head and she pulls it away, she gets this look in her eye like 'I'm sorry I had to', then I just tell her 'Mia' in a soft low voice and she will give me back her head. But in all things with her she is never spooked by things of the natural world, it's people/alphas (she seems to consider almost all people as alphas) that scare her. Whenever my son wants to do anything with her I can feel how much she would like to bolt and run but doesn't, just tries to keep a three foot perimeter around herself, and it seems to be more about worrying that she is accidentally going to hurt him and I will get mad than worrying about what he's going to do to her.

All in all I enjoy the amount of respect Mia gives to me and how careful she is, but it hurts me in the times that it seems to be coming out of fear instead of respect. All in all I think she enjoys being around me, follows me everywhere, grooms me, but she can't seem to shake that having spent 8 years as the absolute bottom of the pecking order in a herd of five mares including her mother. I just want her to feel confident and happy, so any suggestions to TTouch or any other methods to help with this would be greatly appreciated.