correct riding posture, etc

[jmtw]

not to start an arguement, but how many feel that you have to ride a 'certain' way?

My thoughts are this: Back when cowboys were really cowboys, they didn't care about posture. They cared about getting from point A to point B with as little hardship and effort as possible. They cared about staying on the horse, what comfort they could get, and not interfering with the horse when he's working. They also took very good care of their horses, because without them they were screwed.
They were also, arguementally, some of the best riders on earth.
NOTE: Not to be confused with the 'cowboys' of today.

So, why is it that riding is so complicated now? Fact of life that humans cannot help but make things as hard as possible?

Does anyone remember as kids going out, leaping on a horses back and just riding around?? What happened to those days?

[CarolU]

Hmmm....well, to answer your question backwards, there are definately many ways to ride a horse WRONG, so that means that YES, there must be a right and wrong way to ride. Riding wrong can mess up your horse's carriage, collection, gait, leads, you can 'hang on with the reins', too much weight to one side, etc. Also, by sitting wrong, you get sore in the backm neck, or legs, too much weight in your stirrups can hurt your knees or feet, and you can also cause your horse a sore back.

Now, defining what is RIGHT is a little different. I believe cowboys - and yes, there are still many modern cowboys in the best sense of the word (like Ed!), that ride correctly. I would call it 'relaxed center seat'...because while it is 'mostly' center seat like in dressage, it is with flexibility in the hips and back to ride WITH the horse, rather then ON the horse. You need enough bend in your ankles and knees to act as shock absorbers - although with Pasos this isn't as necessary as with other breeds. You see many people ride Pasos with the straightlegged - foot on dashboard - seat that would kill them on a trotting horse. It seems to me it would also get very uncomfortable on a long ride.

[Brigitte]

I do believe you have to ride a certain way. In paso fino I was taught, hands up at your bellybutton's height, elbows closed to your side, hands firmly closed, look up, heels down, toes pointing forward, NOT outwards, heels down. Thats basicly it. Now, only kids who get lessons ride like this. Most of them hold their hands a bit in the air, and have their heels down. Some of them I have seen putting pressure on their toes and pushing the stirrup to the front. I'm ok with anyone who can control a horse and has his/her heels down, that's the least I ask for. But with the kids who I give lessons I ask for their best posture, and for them to hold it at all times.
When I ride it's instinct now for me anyway to ride the way I mentioned above. How I was taught and how I got used to.

[jmtw]

So.... basically, it's what you've been taught.
Like, every horse requires a bit for stopping power.
Like, every horse should be shod.
Like, every horse should be trained (especially pasos by a spanish trainer).

[Cindy]

So.... basically, it's what you've been taught.
Like, every horse requires a bit for stopping power.
Like, every horse should be shod.
Like, every horse should be trained (especially pasos by a spanish trainer).
_________________


No, that's not it at all. Of course, you can ride however you want to ride. But there are reasons for riding with the proper posture. The reasons are to help both you and the horse to be more comfortable and to get the most out of your horse and to be more secure and balanced on the horse and for the horse to not hurt while you ride and for you to stay on the horse better and for you to not hurt after you have ridden. If none of these things are important to you, by all means, ride however you like.

[Brigitte]

I've been taught like that for a reason, and when showing you ride like that and they judge you like that. Why? Well I'm sure there's a reason to ride like that, it's the 'correct' way, like Cindy said. It's not like they said ok ride like this and they judge you however they want. They judge for the correct riding position and that's it

[Terry Wallace]

I ride "balanced"..to me, that is dressage style... or the very same way you stand up tall & straight... as straight as possible from sholder, to hip, to heel... stirrups are for getting on & off...no weight in the stirrups... I ride my "fork"...that is from knee to crotch. I DO feel this helps the horse as much as possible.

Biggest "mistakes" I see, are stirrups too short, people leaning in turns instead of staying in balance, and feet too far foward...on some it causes them to sit on their pockets...thats a NO!

[CarolU]

So.... basically, it's what you've been taught.
Like, every horse requires a bit for stopping power.
Like, every horse should be shod.
Like, every horse should be trained (especially pasos by a spanish trainer).

You know Joey, it must be a local thing, with the exception of the bit, I was never taught any of that. I was taught to shoe a horse only when and if it is needed, and I was never taught to use a Spanish trainer. In fact, from all I have seen, there is only one Spanish trainer I would send a horse to, and only a handful of American trainers. I have very fundamental differences with how I feel horses should be trained, and how most show Paso Finos are "trained" which to be perfectly honest, I don't consider most of these horses 'trained' hardly at all. When it takes five people to hold a horse so the 'trainer' can get on...that horse is NOT well trained, and I could care LESS what the Championship ribbon around it's neck says.

I have to laugh in our breed, there seems to be some mystic that Latinos - and only Latinos - are born with 'horse sense'...like elsewhere in America, many believe Indians are born with it. HOGWASH. There are INDIVIDUALS who seem born with an innate ability to read and understand horses, but I certainly don't think any race has a corner on it. I personally find most Spanish methods very cruel - and after visiting training barns in Spain, and our show barns at night, I have seen nothing to convince me otherwise.

This is not a breed where "horsemanship" has any weight or importance at all. JMHO

[jmtw]

Thank you, Carol :smile:

[Primroseddp]

Dogon i can't believe me ,carol , and cindy all agreeing, just jokeing i will say this , first off horses did not live near as long as they do now or as good as they live , we care for our horses as pet ,partners , friends and loved ones, not merely just a means to get from point A to B, and i will put in a quote for Chris Cox will he was the mc at the Agust cutting fut , you can be a 300 pound man and help your horse or you can be a 175 pound man and damage the way your horse moves and works by the way you ride.

I think the way you sit and the position of your body parts have a great bearing on how the horse responds to your commands. Alex takes lessons twice a week, and this is after winning at Asheville last year. She started with Diego Bravo bareback learning balance. After that she moved up to a saddle without stirrups. She had to learn to FEEL when the horse is in gait. Tilting your head down to look at the ground makes the horse slow or stop. Leaning makes him move incorrectly when doing serpentines and figure 8's.

There is nothing more disgusting looking than watching a show where people look like they are trying to reach for the brakes, leaning waaaaay back, holding the reins with a death-grip, flopping around like a fish making the horse look out of gait, feet so far away from the sides they appear to be attempting a split or moving their heads like bobble-head dolls. Yes, there is a right way to ride and it makes the horse and rider appear as a single unit, working together.

We can all plop ourselves on the back of a well-trained paso and ride around without falling off (we hope), but if you ride using the correct posture you and the horse make a beautiful picture and are fluid in motion.

Being of any culture or being male does not make one a better paso trainer or breeder. Some people have natural talents and some learn from years of experience. Others just BS and try to convince others of a mystique passed down from generations of pasos.

[Brigitte]

There is nothing more disgusting looking than watching a show where people look like they are trying to reach for the brakes, leaning waaaaay back, holding the reins with a death-grip, flopping around like a fish making the horse look out of gait, feet so far away from the sides they appear to be attempting a split or moving their heads like bobble-head dolls. Yes, there is a right way to ride and it makes the horse and rider appear as a single unit, working together.


So true, I hate watching people ride bad

[motorgypsy]

This topic is of particular interest to me because I was a "taught" rider at a young age, didn't learn any of it, fell off all the time, never got my balance, but never lost my desire to ride well. I kept doing the horse thing but more working with friends' horses than riding very often.

In the meantime we did a lot of other things including boating. THIS is where I first learned my balance. Our first boat was extremely rough in choppy water. You learned to stand in a balanced postion and use you knees and feet to absorb the shock of the pounding or you were beaten to death. You had side to side, forward and backward and vertical motion. We learned how to balance very well. Then we started riding a lot more. Suddenly the logic of what needed to be done to keep from falling off was already there. Just like balancing on the floor of the boat but now the stirrups became the point where your feet and knees could provide stability - IF they were in the right position.

When we got Chinook she bucked with great regularity. Now her bucking is easier to ride than a trot but nonetheless she would throw a twist in there now and then just to make a point. After a while I figured out how to stop her from bucking but in the meantime all that boating in rough water made the right balance second nature. Even when you put most of your weight in your seat the way you do bareback you still keep you legs and feet in the position that if the horse suddenly disappeared you would be on the ground standing in a balance position. I know I will because I've had two horses slip out from under me in a turn and indeed I did land on my feet with no problems. No I'm not a good "show" rider - but I can stay balanced most of the time now which is a huge improvement!

So a good rider rides in a balanced manner.

When you're riding really fast like running barrels and doing really tight turns at a full gallop you do indeed lean into the turn. You just don't OVER lean. You become one with the horse so your weight is acting along a line down through the horse who is leaning also. If you don't lean properly you will either overbalance on the inside or fall off on the outside. The key is to lean at the proper angle and when you do so it's not noticeable because it looks normal and feels normal. If the horse is moving slowly or turning gradually the lean angle is tiny. If the horse makes a tight turn at high speed it is much greater and you generally lean forward if the horse is accelerating and backward if the horse is decelerating to prevent yourself from being thrown off balance.

There are several ways to ride balanced and it really depends on what you're planning to do which way is best. If you're at the gate getting ready to blast into the arena for a speed event you lean forward but are balalnced. You use a shorter stirrup so you have more room to compensate for the bouncing of the horse's gait - especially during the stopping. If you're already cortoing and going into the arena and not planning any major speed change you can ride balanced in an upright position with longer stirrups because you shouldn't be experiencing any bouncy gait.

The good riders that are also good teachers understand the reason for what they teach and can explain it. The intuitive riders don't have a clue why they ride the way they do. And others ride the way they do because that is the way they were taught. If one instructor doesn't work for you, change instructors.

Now as far as the arms are concerned - some of that is just appearance. it's not really attractive to have you arms all flapping around. A light handed rider will use light hands whether their elbows are in or out but in this case you just watch good riders and copy what they do with their elbows. Since most of us use shank bits we don't have to exert this huge pressure with our hands and arms that riders of other breeds have to exert and we don't have to use a lot of the techniques they use to handle these huge brutes they ride with snaffle bits. So we can use pinky touch on the reins and seat and body motions to cue what we want our horses to do because they are so sensitive. They are so wonderful!

So good riding is indeed what is best for the horse and rider and it has to be balanced or both are miserable. If you feel miserable when you ride you probably aren't doing something right. Lower your stirrups until just your toe makes contact with it for safety and ride around trying to find that very comfortable balanced position for horse and rider. Don't worry about how you look. Worry about how you FEEL. If it feels right, it probably is. Once you get your body and legs in the proper relaxed, flexible, position you can worry about the arms and your show outfit!! ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

And of course you can always watch riders like Cindy who were probably born riding correctly!!!

[Edurne]

I spent last summer riding bareback on a pad, and I must say that it has improved my balance and confidence and probably leg strength. Mr. F. took great pleasure on going up and down the steepest hills - I think - to see if I would slip off :D I did get a treeless saddle which has the stirrups leathers further back and that has changed my leg position in the saddle and I found some new muscles :D ...... oooh and yes I did meet my goals of cantering and jumping over a log bareback.

[CarolU]

Edurne, I agree with bareback riding for improving seat, balance, and posture. I have a few cautions with it though. The first is to make sure children have long enough legs to bend around the horse (or a small enough horse to do so on), otherwise they just slide off in a tight turn. Secondly, that the horse should be trained/used to being ridden bareback for new people. I have horses I broke riding bareback that are fine with it, and others that were so senstive to the tweek of a cheek muscle they were very dangerous bareback until they learn to relax with it.
Thirdly, just a warning for those who are older or with fragile bones. Accidents DO happen and they happen fast, there is no security to a bareback seat, so it really is not for everyone.
Lastly, and MOST IMPORTANT, make sure the rider is NOT using the reins to hang on with! This is not an independent seat and it is a terrible thing to do to your trusted steed.

But, for everyone else, especially if you have a good family-type horse, it works wonders for balance.

Linda Parelli has this marevelous course called Fluidity. One of the exercises in it is to ride every step with the horse, so your feet, hips, etc. all move with the horse. It's very helpful to take a minute and feel with your arse (that's what it's there for) what the horse is doing and be sensitive enough to move with it. Now, this is just an exercise, she's not recomending you ride like this all the time, but that you ride relaxed.

[Edurne]

Absolutely agree on not using reins for balance. Primero has a great long tuft of hair, that grows in the opposite direction of his mane, located just at hand reach. I use that all of the time. I told you my goal was to ride no hands..... you should never have posted that photograph :D I do use a body protector and helmet. For the most part if I ride bareback it is in the fields - with a fence close by so that I can get back on if I do a flying dismount.

[CarolU]

ROFL...glad to be an inspiration! Go for it, there is nothing like it.

Try the "Passenger Lesson"

Go in a round coral where the horse can't take off from you. Drop the reins on the neck and go wherever the horse goes at whatever gait they go at. It's a good idea to do it with a saddle at first until you get used to it. Two rules, the horse isn't allowed to stop, and must stay away from the gate - a lot of horses will go back/forth in front of the gate.

This is a great seat and balance building exercise. Try it on different horses if you can. I love watching people do this on trotting horses OUCH.

[baileyholc]

My posture is not all that streight, when I notice that I am not sitting streight, my toes are not out nor are my heel down. I just get up their and hold on. LOL I just love to have fun. I do try to stay centered and streight on the horse and just move with it. I even look down when I am riding. I guess I don't know how to ride. :-?

Help me I am falling and can't get up right! LOL

Sorry, just making light of the conversation not meaning anything by it. :D

[Cindy]

And of course you can always watch riders like Cindy who were probably born riding correctly!!!


I wish. I was born knowing horses but the equitation thing, not so much. I have worked my butt off to ride with the equitation that I have and still am not nearly as good in that vien as most of the kids out there. And I continue to develop that aspect of my riding every day that I ride as I see and learn new things to apply all the time. The more that I can improve on my equitation, the better my horses will perform. It's daily work.



Try the "Passenger Lesson"



We used to do this when we were kids but it was in a large arena and we were bareback and had no headgear whatsoever on the horses. Just jump on them and tell them to go. I tell you what, you learn how to move and think like a horse or you don't. :lol: Hopefully, you do or you don't really do this much. It is much fun, however. That is when you are a kid. :D

[CarolU]

You were a lot braver doing this in a large arena then a lot of people! I'm not sure why so many people with Pasos are afraid of cantering (probably because the rounded back feels a lot like a buck precursor).

I'll tell you a funny thing I learned doing this with my various horses. Diablo is a fairly spooky horse and does this 'dip-and-spin.' He's playing like he's spooking and does this - and you can tell, because his head is up and he's looking for excuses to be a retard. When I do the Passenger Lesson on him, the 'play like' spook goes away - apparently it is no fun when it doesn't accomplish anything, when he can spin and go wherever and as fast as he wants. I also figured, since he loves to spin, to teach him spins...rollbacks and front end spins...and that took his 'play' spin away totally - was no fun at all when he had to do it.

These are VERY smart horses.