PFHA Rule Question: Western Pleasure

[Rebekah]

I'm hoping someone here can explain to me the reasoning behind a particular PFHA rule.

I see that a western-style bosal is legal in PFHA pleasure class (why would anyone want this? Does anyone use this tack in pleasure class??)

The more curious part is that a western-style bosal is not legal in Western Pleasure class. Why is it not legal? I can show almost any other breed of western pleasure horse in a hackamore/bosal -- it's quite common.

Why do we prohibit this commonly used western tack in our only Western class? Has there every been any desire to change this rule? How do you all feel about this rule?

Thank you!

[Pasogirlz]

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Welcome to the forum Rebekah!

Good question. I never realized they allowed a western style bosal in the Pleasure class. Are you sure they were not referring to the latin style bosal? :confused

[Rebekah]

Yup, I'm sure. I found this info on the PFHA website on page six their "Tack Gude".
http://www.pfha.org/documents/pdf/2004.tack.guide.pdf

They are clearly referring to a western bosal with macate reins.

While I see absolutely no point in using this tack for a Paso Pleasure class, I would like to be able to use this tack in the Western Pleasure division. [/i]

[Pasogirlz]

Patti B is a frequent member of the forum, maybe she can help us out here. ;-)

[DebbieS]

Welcome to the BB! Sorry, can't help but I'm sure someone can - lots of helpful and knowledgable folks here!!

[CarolU]

I agree. Patti wrote the tack guide and she is the only one I know who might explian WHY on any of it.

I was unaware you couldn't use a western bosal in Western Pleasure. But you are rigth, the guide does say it is NOT (in bold letters) legal in WP. The rules do say a standard curb bit is REQUIRED in Western Pleasure, which is probaby why the bosal is illegal. Dumb rule, I agree.

Put in a rule change proposal on it. It can't be voted on for 2 years, but better change late then never.

[Cindy]

It is allowed in Pleasure because pretty much anything that one would use to ride a horse in that is humane is allowed in Pleasure and a bit is not required in the class. It is not allowed in Western Pleasure because a bit is required in Western Pleasure. A bit is required in Western Pleasure because they want the horse to be a finished horse. And, yes, it has been a rule change proposal in the past to allow a bosal and also to allow other schooling headgear in Western Pleasure. There are propaosals all the time about changing the tack for that class. But right now, a bit is required.

[appyday]

A bosal that a magnet will stick to is ILLEGAL

[appyday]

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[baileyholc]

Welcome! Glad to have you aboard.

[Rebekah]

A bit is required in Western Pleasure because they want the horse to be a finished horse.

Isn't it odd that they insist a lowly Western Pleasure horse be "finished", but not horses that show in the highly regarded and nationally recognized Pleasure division? I find that odd. Does anyone else?

Anyway, at the prospect of waiting two years to even suggest a rule change, I probably wont look into that aspect any further.

I have spent many years riding my horses with two hands and switching to one hand is proving a challenge. They are very sensitive to where my hands are since I’ve always been consistent: real low hands = flat walk, raised hands = pick it up and gait. Holding the reins with one hand is currently giving a mixed signal. Not only that, but I really don’t intend to switch entirely to one-handed riding. My horses are primarily pleasure horses that I would enjoy cross-showing in the Western class. The bosal with mecate reins would have solved that problem. Oh well.

I suppose if it means enough to me to show in Western Pleasure I will just have to spend another year improving my skills and my horses’ so that they can neck rein. ;-)

[motorgypsy]

A well trained paso fino can be shown western pleasure with essentiallly no rein - just using seat and/or leg cues and body postion. How do I know? Because I rode one Cindy trained and won the Western pleasure class in an allbreed show against 14 mostly QH's and paints. It was a choice of gait. Since I watch Clinton Anderson do his reining thing I just held the reins in one hand up off the saddle and held my other arm up with the elbow bent and cued my horse with the outside leg primarily. She was perfect! Thanks Cindy!!! Good job!!

So you might find it easier than you think to use one hand on the reins. They are so responsive and seem to read your mind.

[Tami Pinell]

Maybe one can use a western bosal in pleasure class because the horse in not asked to canter/lope like they are asked to in western pleasure - maybe they think we couldn't stop.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[PattiB]

At the time I started the tack guide, a bosal with mecate reins was legal in Western Pleasure( I showed my gelding in one). By the time it was to go up for approval Fred Moretti put in the rule change that made it illegal for Western Pleasure. I was hoping that it would allow schooling horses to use it in Western Pleasure like the other breeds (up to five years old) but it was not. I included it in the tack guide for those wanting to ride in Pleasure with western tack which it is legal in

[Serendipity]

I show in western pleasure .and am currently schooling a performance horse into western pleasure leg cues are the key and while teaching neck riening use 2 hands and the leg cue the direct rein to say whare to go the other to fell on the neck and become comfortable and the leg cue to bring it all together.Has only taken me 2 months 2 teach and that with only riding about 2-3 days a week.I'm still working on the lope ;-)

[PattiB]

If you are riding in Western tack in schooling Pleasre, you can use two hands but if you are in the adult class in Western tack you must use one hand.

[LynnG]

What about if you are using western tack in trail class?

1. Can you use two hands if riding with split reins and a snaffle bit?

2. One hand or two hands bosal or bit otherwise?

This was a question last weekend at a non-PF show. The western riders had snaffles and were two handing. I was told that they were under age 5 and allowed to use schooling headgear (snaffle) and could use two hands.

What is legal with PFHA regarding trail and tack/hands?

[PattiB]

In most breeds a horse under the age of five can be ridden in a snaffle or bosal and two hands may be used. Trail is Pleasure tack & attire so I guess I would go by the Pleasure rules which allow a three or four year old to be ridden with two hands. Horse over the age of four would have to be ridden with one hand which can not be switched except to negotiate an obstacle like a gate.
I think the next rule change I am going to propose that we allow for schooling horses in Western Pleasure to wear a snafflr or bosal and two hands can be used. May have to add a clarification for Trail on this matter also.

[CarolU]

Patti, I think both rule changes would be good. It is a little confusing now, but is it true then that if you are in Trail, in western tack, that you have to use one hand? Or are two hands legal? Or only legal if in schooling gear? We're doing a Trail clinic here in two weeks, so it will help to be able to be clear.

Thanks.

[PattiB]

If the horse is three or four two hands may be used. Any horse five or older must use one hand and not switch hands except to negotiate an obstacle. Like opening and closing the gate, if you ride with reins in right hand and the gate is a right hand push, can change hands when you get to the gate to open and close it, then put the reins back in the right hand.

That's why I like to ride english so I can use two hands :D [/b]

[LynnG]

That info should be disclosed somewhere...tack guide or rule book or for further explanation so all will know..even in PFHA magazine. Specialty theme editorial issue deadline is April 15th if Patti would like to write it up and submit it from a trainers and stewards viewpoint. Got any photos to show would be great for a more thorough explanation! :roll:

[Serendipity]

I jusy asked 2 ring swerts this a few weeks agos in any pleasure class including trail but not veritility if western tack is uses then rider must ride with one hand I thing the only exception is the schooling pleasure class but I have not shown in this class so don't know if has to be one handed but in the pleasure divion 5 and up it one hand only thing that you don't need that you do in WP is chaps are optional

[cowboy ed]

rebekah, western pleasure is also "nationally recognized and highly regarded." i agree with what cindy said, a paso fino that is trained well for the western pleasure class is a more finished horse.

my opinion, i think a rider in the western pleasure class should ride with one hand on the reins, regardless of the horse's age. you know your horse. if it takes both hands on the reins, maybe he isnt quite ready for that class.

i know your original question was about riding with a bosal, so we have gotten off the mark a bit. my opinion is that a western style bosal should be allowed in the paso fino western pleasure class, but i still think the rider should have to ride with one hand on the reins. that is one of the things that sets this class apart from the others.

[PattiB]

Probably needs to go to rule clarification on trail class, so that all judges and stewards use the same interpetation. As far as I know this has never been clarified on Western tack in trail. That is MY interpetation. I'll email Margaret and see what they say.

I emailed Margaret, will let you know what the committee thinks.

[CarolU]

I agree with Ed. I think a bosal should be allowed in either WP or Trail, but think that if you use western tack you should use one hand (the same hand) on the reins. I grew up riding and showing western...it was always one hand only. I see in Shelley's photos that two hands are allowed now on schooling horses. If this is allowable in USEF, then I guess we should allow it too.

Neck reining is a fairly easy thing to train, a little more work in Trail class maybe, but it really is a good thing to train EVERY horse for...you never know when you're handed a glass of wine and need to not spill any. ;-)

[PattiB]

I got a clarification from Margaret Fahringer. If you are riding in Trail in Western tack you go by western rules, if you are riding in "English" Pleasure tack you ride by those rules. SO for now you can only use one hand in Trail when riding western.

Most breeds in USEF allow horse under the age of five to use a snaffle or bosal and ride with two hands in Western.

[LynnG]

that needs to be written up as a rule change as to what USEF allows so pfha is up todate on it.

just why we had discussed it at the show last weekend. that is the way I saw it as per pfha rules, but knew there was somthing different as per snaffle bits as per trail and western tack.

thanks patti for clearing that up.

[motorgypsy]

When we showed Western Pleasure in allbreed sponsored by an App club we were told by our boarding barn owner and allbreed judge and QH show person that it totally depended on the bit. If you ride with a snaffle you use two hands. If you ride with a curb (shank) bit you may use only one hand. She didn't mention any age the horse had to be to use either bit so don't know about that.

[PattiB]

QH aren't a part of USEF, so I don't know their rules. Only certain types of snaffles are legal for Western. My full cheek is not considered legal for Western because it is not a typical western snaffle.

[Cindy]

MGs, I think you can only use a snaffle in a schooling class in QH. Must use a curb in adult classes. I THINK.

[motorgypsy]

I'll ask. They show them so young anyway.