PFHA? USEF? Kelley? Arco Iris? quien es culpable????

[mmpasolover]

yo siempre leo lo de los forums pero nunca opinaba, pero en este caso siento la necesidad de hacerlo/
Yo creo que esta situacion que vimos con el caballo Arco Iris de Capuchino es muy penosa., y pienso que por mas que busquemos culpabilidad en Kelley , el otro entrenador , el dueño , o el que sea, los unicos culpables de que esto haya pasado sin que hubiera habido ninguna sancion es la PFHA / USEF.
yo creo que para eso tenemos una asociacion de caballos paso fino en la cual todos pagamos un membership y la cual se encarga de establecer las reglas. Esta asociacion esta “relacionada” con la USEF que es la asociacion que se encarga de los examenes medicos y tests despues de una competencia a ciertos caballos. Nosotros pagamos extra en cada show por esos drug test, asi se haga o no, y sino, pues se es miembro para no tener que pagar $12 cada show. Mi punto es el siguiente:
Para que pagamos un drug test? Si ya vimos lo que paso en un Nacional con un campeon cuando lo encontraron positivo en su prueba, sea por X o Y razon, el caso es que dio positivo.. Yo pienso que estamos regalando el dinero y le falta certeza a las reglas de la PFHA pues no es posible que despues de encontrar un caballo con algun medicamento no permitido bajo las reglas simplemete se decalifique, se le quiten las cintas y pague una pequeña suma de dinero como penalidad. Y ademas que por ser el ultimo show del año no se le sancione porque empieza un año Nuevo de shows.
Tambien hay que tener en cuenta que alguna vez ha sido gente suspendida por lo mismo, pero porque en esta situacion no suspendieron a nadie? Acaso porque esta persona tiene mas influencias y por eso la asociacion decidio no suspender. Yo se que hacen los “HEARINGS” donde se decide que hacen, pero al ver que se trataba de la senora COX no quisieron hacer nada. Ella siendo JUEZ y casi graduada o graduada de veterinaria como no iba a saber lo que estaba pasando? Sin autorzacion de ella no se le hacia nada al caballo y es inadmitible que traten de lavarse las manos hechandole la culpa a otro montador porque la POBRE de Kelley no sabia ni que estaba pasando…. Porfavor! Aqui la unica responsible es ella. Y los irresponsables son los de la PFHA / USEF que no hacen nada con este tipo de situaciones. Yo no digo que Kelley no sea Buena entrenadora, Buena persona, alguien querido, que ayuda,,,, muchas cosas buenas, pero que fallo , fallo. Y debe ser sancionada al igual que cualquier otro miembro de la PFHA.
Creo que se deberian tomar cartas en el asunto y hacer las reglas mas estrictas y sino pues dejar de pagar esos “fees” para los Drug tests de la USEF que no sirven para nada y parar de regalarles el dinero pues no hacen nada cuando tienen un resultado positivo y en un NACIONAL. Asi entonces el que quiera ir a un Nacional puede darle alguna medicina a su caballo, hace la clase , y si gana corre con la suerte de que no le hagan test porque es al azar y queda como campeon , y si corre con mala suerte lo unico que puede pasar es que le quiten su titulo pagar una pequeña multa y no mas, pero sigue siendo el campeon nacional pues ya le gano a todos, y la emocion y celebracion se la llevo un caballo que no lo merecia por andar en sustancias prohibidas a sabiendas de que si se daban cuenta no pasaba nada pero podia ganar.
Ya la gente perdera el respeto por las Nacionales y a la Asociacion que se soluciona con unos cuantos centavos. , en mi opinion muchos entrenadores dejaban de dar medicinas por miedo a un test y a una suspension ( a lo que todos le temen). Ya no va a importar tanto porque no pasa nada, solo perderan una cinta. Pero no ponen en riesgo su trabajo el cual les da para vivir. Porque si esto paso con Kelley y en un nacional me imagino que todo el mundo se tratara por igual estando en esta misma situacion, o no? No se suspende al encontrar positvo un test.

Es solo mi opinion.

[SandyMM]

This is a _very_ loose translation taken from BabelFish.com and amended for smoother reading. If someone else can help with the translation... please feel free...! I also added some breaks to make reading easier. BabelFish doesn't give a very smooth translation, but I think you will be able to get the gist of the post.
I always read these forums but never posted, but in this case I feel the necessity to do so I believe that this situation which we saw with the horse Arco Iris de Capuchino is very difficult, and think that when we look for culpability in Kelley, the other trainer, the owner, or the one that is the guilty party who caused this to happen without there had been no sanction, the answer is PFHA/USEF. I believe that we have an association of paso fino horses in which all we paid membership and which is in charge to establish the rules. This association this "related" to the USEF that is the association that are in charge of the medical exams of certain horses and tests after a competition.

We paid extra in each show for those drug tests for each show is $12 so the member not to have to pay. My point is the following one: So that we paid for the drug test? we saw what happened in a National with a champion when they found positive in his test, is by whatever reason, the case is a positive test result. I think that we are giving the money and with the lack of certainty to the rules of the PFHA then it is not possible then to find a horse with some medicine nonallowed under the rules simply disqualified, the ribbon removed and pays a small sum to him of money like penalty and that's all. And since the show year is completed he is not sanctioned because a New Year of shows begins.

Also it is necessary to consider that sometimes people have been suspended for the same thing, but because in this situation they did not suspend anybody? Perhaps because this person has but influences and for that reason the association decided not to suspend. I that they had the "HEARINGS" where it is decided that they do, but when seeing that one was Ms. COX they did not want to do anything. She being JUDGE and almost graduated or graduated as a veterinarian and she didn't know what was happening? Without authorization of her nothing would be given to the horse and it is not acceptable that she tries to wash her hands giving fault to another rider because the POOR unwise WOMAN Kelley did not know what was happening.... PLEASE!

Here the responsible one is she only. And the irresponsible ones are those of the PFHA/USEF that does not do anything with this type of situations. I do not say that Kelley is not Good trainer, to Good person, somebody beloved, who helps,, does many good things, but that failure, is still a failure. And any other member of the PFHA must be sanctioned like. I believe that they ought to intervene in the affair and to make the rules strict and but because we pay "fees" for the Drug tests of the USEF that does not serve any purpose and we ought to stop to then give the money to them because when they have a positive result and in a NATIONAL and they do nothing about it. Then like that the one that wants to go to a National can give some medicine to its horse, it makes the class, and if it wins it runs with the luck of which they do not do test to him because it is at random and it stays as champion, and if they have the bad luck that can happen is that they clear his first place title to pay a small fine to him and not but, but continues being the national champion then already first place win to him to all, and the emotion and celebration one could take a horse to it that it having had substances prohibited, knowing full well that if got away with it they could win and if they got caught it was not a big deal.

We will lose the respect of people for Nationals and for the Association when this type of problem is solved with a few cents, in my opinion many trainers don't give medicines for fear of a test and a suspension (to which all fear to him). No longer is it going to concern them so much because it does not cause anything to happen, only you would lose a ribbon. But they do not take risks its work which gives them to live. Because if this happening with Kelley and in a national I imagine that everybody treated the same being in this same situation, or no? A positive results. There will be no suspension when finding a positive test.

[motorgypsy]

I edited the translation so hope it's a bit more clear. This is a pretty general consensus of opinion from many of our Spanish speaking paso fino owners, breeders and show people so be aware please that they are not happy.

[Barbwire]

Thanks, MG's that made it a lot clearer to me. I must say, some valid points have been raised by mmpasolover.

[mmpasolover]

Thanks for the translation :D

[PattiB]

When it comes to drug testing that is USEF not PFHA. The USEF Hearing Committee more than likely does not know Kelly Cox, they might not even know anyone in Pasos (except Fred Morretti). The Hearing Committee decides on fines and suspensions, it is not automatic suspension. If you have a good lawyer or Rep. you can plead a good case just like in a court of law. A person giving a massive dose of performance enhancers should get a higher fine or penalty than someone that just happens to have given two NSAIDS instead of one. The punishment should fit the crime.

[mmpasolover]

Then PFHA should fix the rules and suspend anybody that is found positive on a drug test that is made by USEF. Then why are we paying drug fees? just to know? or to do something.? I dont care if USEF dont suspend, PFHA should do it. In colombia, puerto rico, venezuela, Dominican Republic, we have never seen this happened. NEVER. Anything positive by any reason, was suspended minimun for 1 year.
Now in spectrum, nationals everybody can use wathever they want on horses, nothing will happen if you are lucky and they dont test you and if they do, it is ok. Just return your ribbon.....and pay $1,500.
And USEF know Kelley cox they have been involved in horses years and years ago,no only in pasos... just to let you know.
Why in other situations they suspended people? they were not so important as kelley? Now on, everytime they find someone positive, they cannot do anything. PFHA WILL HAVE TO TREAT EVERYBODY THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!! Just pay a FEE and problem solved.

[PattiB]

So my horse is colicy and I give him a shot of Banamine. The next morning I give him 1g of Bute, I don't show the horse for 12 hrs after that (which is the legal time limit) Problem is you can not give two different NSAIDS, you can give Banamine OR Bute but you can't switch. So according to you I should be punished the same as someone that intentionally gives their horse Acepromazine to calm them down to get them in the class? There needs to be different punishments. That's like I steal a candy bar and you murder someone I should get a life sentence with you because what I did was illegal!

There are up to 11 people on the USEF Hearing Committee only five are appointed to each hearing, they could be from any division in USEF. You could end up with a person from Hunter, Andalusian, Arabian, Saddlebred etc. I'm sure most would not know who Kelley Cox is. They get the cases when they arrive so it is not like they can study them or be influenced by someone before hand. PFHA Hearing Committee is all Paso people but they are all the same ones at each Hearing (unless some are absent) Which do you think would be more impartial? If you look at the rules it does not say you MUST suspend someone that received a positive drug test, it gives options so that the Hearing Committee can decide which ones deserve a harsher punishment.

[mmpasolover]

It is Stupid to keep discussing. Nothing happened and Kelley will be showing in Spectrum.
I want to see what is going to happen when someone is found positive on a test.
No respect for any show and for nationals,,,, you will see.........Now we all have doors open to do whatever we want at any show if you have money you can fix your problem......
That's why I said I did not want to post anything, i know it s KElley Cox. I wonder how would be your reaction if it was someone else, a regular trainer.......Someone that you dont know or you dont like...........
We need to punish whoever is positive on a test it doesnt matter who it is and what medicines they used, she is a vet and she is supposed to know.
I wont post more.......
Thanks,

If it was another trainer the same thing will happen.

Only so much attention is on Kelley Cox was because it was the CLASSIC FINO NATIONAL CHAMPION the best title anyone can win. Like someone said your punishment is based on what they find on your exam. Im pretty sure many other horses have been tested positive and they get away with it. If PFHA were to suspend everyone that doped their horse the suspension list would be longer dont you think?

[motorgypsy]

mmpasolover we appreciate your taking the time to express your opinion because we know from other forums that there are many who share your opinion and we all need to be aware. But you also need to listen to those of us who do not know Kelley and who couldn't care less who won the class. We own, breed, train, show paso finos but not for fame, not fino - just for love of the breed. We got into this breed because we thought it was free of the abuses we know happen in others. This unfortunately isn't true but we still hope it is much less common in our breed.

Now back to your point of view. You want all positive drug tests to have the same punishment. But are you aware of just how many drugs are on the list that is disallowed? It is HUGE. Many so called natural herbal substances will test positive. What we have here is a disbelief that the drug was applied accidentally. Well in our judicial system we go by the evidence and yes, those with a better attorney do better in the system because they get the evidence to prove their point. It's the best system we have and we have no choice but to accept the findings and move on. We want the deliberate drug applications for improvement in placing to be punished with the full power of the USEF and PFHA. The accidentals and positives that do not affect performance have to be dealt with individually because it's too easy to make a mistake with so many forbidden substances. Long live the paso fino horse and the lovers of the breed. Thank you for your time and interest and sharing your opinion.

[mmpasolover]

i just said that everybody that get positive should be punished. Depending on the medication that they find should be punished, i agree with that. But they should do more than taking away a placement..... At least not able to go to next nationals, but something. Everybody is very upset the thing is that no one wants to say it. Beacuase Kelley is Judge. And someone everybody knows in this SMALL Paso Fino World...
No one will respect nationals aymore...........

[motorgypsy]

Just a thought but don't you think that the negative publicity has been a much greater punishment than the loss of the placement? A trainer livelihood depends on a good reputation. And use of the stallion also depends on it's good repuation. It is obvious from your post and that of others that whether it was accidental or not her reputation, which is the most important thing she has, has been damaged. I mentioned once before that if I were she I would request drug tests on any horse I rode or trained at all shows from now on to make some attempt to regain a good reputation. There could be a change of rules made that would impose a six month or one year suspension on any positive regardless of how far into the show season the incident occurs but that means a proposal has to be made and proper process followed and then convincing enough people that this is a good thing to do before it would become policy. It can be done if enough people want it but it will not be easy because others who show their horses and are honest would be very fearful of accidental contamination of their horse and the resulting punishment.

[PattiB]

What drugs do they test for in Colombia,PR etc.? Do they have a list of drugs they will test for? Like MG said there are a lot of drugs that they test for at USEF, not just performance enhancers or calmers.

I still have not heard what Arco Iris tested positive for, therefore I have to believe that it had to be a minor drug because of the USEF Hearing Committees findings. They do not go linient on major drug infractions no matter who you are.

I didn't hear anything last year when German Higuera had his Grand National Performance Stallion ribbon, placement and prize money taken away. They were fined also(Maybe if it had been Fino Stallions). I read about it in the USEF Equestrian, then I asked German what his horse teated for. Their mistake was what I was writing about, giving two different NSAIDS. A simple mistake but still a positive test result. I believe it was fair punishment, if it had been giving the horse cocaine or something similiar that would be a whole other story. But there are many drugs on the list at USEF that most people would have no idea they would end up with a positive test for.

[mmpasolover]

then USEF and/or PFHA should give a list of medicines saying which ones are "highly punished" and which ones are not.
So we can know what we can use, not to get punished. like Kelley :lol:

[Pasogirlz]

I guess if you call no punishment being ridiculed and embarrased in front of the entire Paso Fino community and damaging your reputation.... go ahead. ;-)

[CarolU]

Isn't all this a little premature? Aren't they supposed to be printing this incident up in the June issue of the PFHW? So, we don't even know what drug we're talking about, or the amount that was present. We don't know what the hearing committee knew. I think it's best to wait until all the facts are present, then people aren't speculating and we know what happened.

[PattiB]

This is the link to USEF medications. http://www.usef.org/content/drugsMeds/ you can download the list of drugs. As to what is highly punishable, it depends on the amount of drugs found and what they do. A low level pain relief will not get the same punishment as high levels of barbituates.