Any ideas on why I had an involuntary dismount?

[AliceG]

It will be a while before the bruises heal, so i'm looking for ideas before I get started with this gelding again. Here is the deal.....

3 1/2 yr old sweet easy-going and very willing gelding. A bit jumpy on trails, but settles down easily when he realizes 'it' won't kill him. In all, a very compliant and 'want to please' horse. Not very bold, but not really spooky.
Sunday I was getting ready to work him in the ring. He stood quietly for me at the mounting block (as normal for him), but as soon as my butt hit the saddle, he took off running, bucking and spinning.

My old body ain't what it used to be and I flew off. Landed under him & got knocked around a bit by his hooves (including head which was protected by helmet). He ran to a corner and tried to hide. He also was acting scared when my husband went to retrieve him. (He has never been punished, so that wasn't it.)

So, any guesses as to what I should look for when I can move without groaning again?

[PASOFAN]

Sounds EXACTLY what happened to me and my 3yr old storm!! What happened w/me is when I was dismountin (the 100th time) my boot just lightly tapped his butt and he went nutz! I was lucky didnt get kicked or anythingbut fell on the butt hard.. I got back on and he did it again, 2nd time was worse and got thrown good, again I got back on and 3rd time he was ok after we just stood there and I pet him telling him it was ok...

I honestly think maybe he spooked himself or maybe your boot nudged him in a way he wasnt used too.. very hard to say.. our silly scared boys are very unpredicatble at this age... But my boy too is so good at other times. Needs more training that is about it..

Just keep working w//him when your better of cource. Since he was scared after I would start only on the ground again, when that is good then move on to mounting again.. Go slow... Round pen is great, and make sure someone is around.. could be saddle hurtin too...

So sorry your hurt!! I hurt for 1wk after my fiasco..

[Boyd R]

I would work on despooking completly before I would get on again. In other words You schould be able to lead him blind folded. But the bucking sounds like a pain issue I will get a video together that will show how to test the bladder line nerve center.

[GeorgeGuns]

Check his tack, something may have been poking him that he didn't really react to til your weight was on it, or hte fit may have changed enough to make the saddle with weight in it very uncomfortable. Check his back, he may have done something stupid at liberty and knocked something out of line. Horses that have been coming along nicely (as it sounds like he was) don't just all of a sudden decide its time to see how deep they can bury the rider, I'm voting for a physical cause. His fear after the incedent makes me think he really felt horrible about dumping you and was having quite a knee-jerk reaction to something painful.

Hope ya feel better soon, it sure doesn't sound fun to be like that.

[jodiTowne]

Yes Boyd, please explain or demonstrate this bladder line test....never heard of it.

[finolover]

i got a new weaver smart cinch, when i pulled up the slack i rolled up some belly skin with it...i'm glad i caught it before mounting, that's why a little preflight warm up from the ground might help.....

[SandyMM]

we make it a habit to flop around on our green horses - intentionally slid feet across their backs when we mount, let reins swing dangle all over them, slide crinkly plastic bags around their bodies and in-beween their legs (we don't _flap_ the bags - our intention isn't to scare them, but to teach them that all that crinkles, bumps, and drags over them will not necessarily eat them alive!)

[CarolU]

I agree with Boyd. Sounds like a pain issue. Zar did the same thing to me once, it was a neoprene cinch I had used all summer fine, but with the winter it pulled/grabbed her hair and hurt her. I can't/don't blame her at all. I'd check - double check all my tack again. Make sure nothing is poking. A twisted cinch will do the same thing. Don't get mad at the horse, he was telling you something hurt him, the only way he has.

This is why it is always a good idea to lunge the horse (especially green horses) with the saddle on before each ride. Move them around. If they have ANY issues with anything, stop and fix it.

After this incident, I'd also do as Boyd suggested, completely despook this horse. And then when you do get on him again, I would start him over again with weighing and unweighting the stirrup, then standing in the stirrup and rubbing his neck, head, rump, side. Get down, do again and again, both sides. THEN get on him again. I like to initially train mounting with the head pulled around to the side I'm on, so the horse can't take off or go bucking. He might go in a circle, but that is easier to ride then a running buck.

[Boyd R]

I put up video of the bladder line test in the health area.

[AliceG]

Thanks, everyone. Boyd, I can't see the video....my pokey back-woods dial-up...I just get a grey box. Can you describe it? I really don't think he is hurting, but I'd like to try it. I think I saw my vet do that for a pre-purchase exam.

I don't usually lunge this horse because it seems to worry him, and he has never offered to buck or act silly before. I do walk him around and do some exercises, like get him to walk over a tarp, disengage his hindquarters, etc, before I ride. He was fine with that.

But, I will work with the stirrup bumping thing, in case that was the cause. Still can't ride, but hopefully soon. Everything is mud right now anyway.

[CarolU]

Alice, if he's stressed about lunging, you might not use a whip and only use enough body language to get him to move and then YOU relax. Let him lunge until he relaxes with it...until you see a change in his attitude...licking, blinking, lower head. Then work the other direction, same thing.

It seems to me that many Pasos are very VERY sensitive and do stress when you have a whip or stick and keep your body language high. I find if I relax and make my cues as small as I can to get the reaction I want, these horses respond by being calmer. Some horses it doesn't mater, but for the really sensitive ones, it makes a huge difference. We call it "working on Valium." You might try that and get your lunge very light and easy.

Good luck, and I hope you feel better soon. I hate being sore.

[Boyd R]

Alice take your thumb nail, a pen cap or some blunt pointed abject. Run from the pocket behind his front schoulder, Where the saddle rests, in a line parallel to his spine 4 inches down from his spine, down his side and over the rump. If he flinches, Buckles his knees or show any reaction. This is an indication of pain. Any spots that react go back to them several times to make sure it wasn't just a reflex. But it could easily be from his tack also.

And on the video if you are getting the grey box you may have to wait a while for it to load. even on dsl it takes several minutes. It took a good 20 to load to the site.

[cowboy ed]

alice, how long have you been riding this horse? you said he was good on trails, so how much trail time does he have? is he usually obedient under saddle? ever had any kind of control problems with him?

rule out pain, then go back to the basics. i also agree, especially with young horses, lunge/work them for several minutes. dont just get on "cold" and take off! cowboy ed

[AliceG]

Had the horse for a year, but he is only 3 1/2, so very green. He is obdient and tries hard on trails. He is a bit jumpy with new things -sights and sounds on the trail, but tries his best. He even goes over hollow sounding wooden bridges and ramps built over swampy areas. He is going to be a real good horse with some time. He has never bucked or offered to misbehave at all, in fact he is very cooperative. He is maybe overly sensitive.

I finally got my bruises checked out because I wasn't getting better. Turns out I have two fractures of my pelvic ring. ER doc was freaking out that I had been hobbling around for a week like that. He said horse-people were the worst patients. Anyway, breaks were not displaced so I don't need surgery, just bed rest and I have to use a walker to get around.

So, checking out this horse for pain or anything else is out for me for a while. When I get a little more mobile, i will get my husband to see what's up with him (supposed to be his horse, anyway). And, I definitely will start lunging before riding anybody again. I used to do it all the time, just got lazy I guess. Plus, this horse gets silly with it, even without a whip, just the end of the line gets him nervous.

I'm waking up and realizing what the 'ageing' part of ageing baby boomer means - I'm 57. I'm thinking I don't need to be riding green horses anymore....I may change my herd around. Find myself a 13-2 hh bombproof old lady horse and sell my 2 yr old pinto filly. I have a nice mare, but she would really rather be a momma than be ridden.

I want to continue riding, but I think this has been a wake-up call for what kind of riding I should do. I like long-distance trails, but I'm not going to be able to do them if I keep getting hurt.

[GeorgeGuns]

OUCH!

Pain or no pain, it does sound like your fella could use a lot more desensatization. One key thought: don't quite just because you get improvement, keep a session going until he is actually relaxed.

I've found that horses go through a few phases to "get it". I rarely quit a session on the first good note esp with groundwork and desensatizing, because I've learned that they need to come back and question the validity of what you think they have learned. Resistance phase #1 is the initial goofiness when something new is brought up. Resistance #2 is when they check the validity, and you have to see them through it. Its usually quick, and a bit hard and can look like they have totally forgotten everything in seconds, but they get over it fast if you persist kindly. Then there is Resistance #3 when they just "check in" to make sure they understood the whole deal. This is less dramatic, more deliberate though, than #2, gotten over more quickly. I think its important to get through at least #2 in a session. As a horse progresses, the phases happen a lot faster and a lot less frequently - in general. They learn how to learn - that's the crux of the "lotsa wet saddle blankets" - learning becomes practice. Sounds like your guy is still trying to learn how to learn.

Well, you both have some time off, love him up, and get back to it later! Heal fast!

[CarolU]

OUCH is right!!! Oh Alice! I hope you heal quickly (and I won't let hubby read this thread :shock: )

Maybe one reason horse people are bad patients is that you get knocked around or down every once in awhile. No point worrying about it or going to the Doc until you figure out if it's bad or not...that takes a few days. Right? LOL

You take care of yourself. This guy is still a baby. He'll wait until you heal COMPLETELY. Then yes, a LOT more desensitization.

[motorgypsy]

OUCH! Hope you are healing quickly! Three year olds are very silly. One friend won't even get on one. Our Florida Cracker gelding is still silly at six. He's a great ride but you have be aware every second because he'll just get the "willy nillies" and do something cute if you don't yank and yell fast. We don't ride three year olds for that very reason. Five on is a good age - especially for mares. I think geldings take longer.