Could you evalutate this horse for me?

[Minouri]

I foung this Peruvian Paso locally online. Before I bother to go look at him could someone tell me what your first impressions are? He'd be a backyard trail horse. He doesn't seem registered so I'd give him my butt smoothness test. I don't really mind which gait he stays in as long as it's a nice ride. But I don't know too much about the breed. Does he look typical? He's seems very stocky to me. His height would be perfect for Tony.

The seller said she bought the horse for her young daughter but it was too much horse for her. The seller said she could ride it but she needed a horse for her daughter.

The price is nice. Of course I'd get him vet checked. Just would like to know if anyone sees anything odd in the picture.


For Sale Or Trade
City: Wolcott CT State: Connecticut
Price: $2,000
Breed: Peruvian Paso Sex: Gelding
Color: Bay Foal Date: January 1995
Markings: N/A Weight: 1,000 pounds
Reg'd With: N/A Height: 14.3 hands
Reg Number: N/A View Pedigree
Disciplines: · Trail Horse - Trained
· Lesson Horse - Trained
· Youth/4-H Horse - Trained
· Gaited - Trained

Temperament: 3 (1=Bombproof, 10=Hot)

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/ppaso.jpg

[Minouri]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/ppaso.jpg

[Minouri]

Sorry tried to make the pic bigger.....but instead you just got double vision.....lol

[CarolU]

Well, he does look 'slightly' overweight for sure. Part is winter coat though. Can't tell you much by the picture, he's not standing straight or square. He just looks like 'a horse' in the picture.

Only you can ride him and tell if he is smooth and 'sweet' enough for what you want. They are similar to PFs in that they are a little more horse under the saddle then on the ground. They move differently, throwing their front legs forward from the shoulder and long stride in back. They cover a lot of ground and are very smooth.

Peruvians are prone to weak pasterns, so make SURE your vet checks them carefully.

[jmtw]

A friend has one.
She says they're prone to DLSD (DSLD?), and that's it's genetic.
Before buying another, she'd research the horses history and see if any of his kin had it.
Hard to do with an unregistered horse, but possible.

[Terry Wallace]

I totally agree on having the limbs evaluated for DSLD "tendancies"...keep in mind that even if there is no sign of it now...it sure can become a problem later. That MUST be done via ultrasound....only "looking" at the outside can be very deceiving...I can't tell much from the photo (its the pose)...but...too straight a hock (post hocks) is also a problem for some Peruvians... I had one with "shot hocks" by age 11 or 12....

If you know the pedigree...I'd be happy to look to see if he is related to the mare I had... do be careful...it seems that I have seen "too many" Peruvians with DSLD lately.... I'm told it is because the gene pool for Peruvians in the USA is very limited and many faults are showing up.

Other than that...do RIDE him...he doesn't look "built for smooth"...but the photo is not a good one to see shoulder angle & such..it looks fairly straight...but again..the pose is not "telling". ;-)

[Carol Nelson]

My good friend has had THREE Peruvian Pasos with DSLD...and another friend has just had hers diagnosed with it.
Please...please...please think carefully before buying...the heartbreak these women are going through is terrible.
I think what is happening is non-descriminate breeders are breeding Peruvians with the genetic tendencies.

[Linda Y]

His legs look pretty good in this photo, but like everyone else said it isn't a real good photo.
DSLD may not show up for years. It is horrible and crippling. There is a farm...not naming names...in Alabama that is having a herd reduction auction. If you look at the photos, every horse that you can see their pasterns has it. Every Peruvian that I have looked at for sale recently looks like they have the tendancy.
If you like this horse, it would be well worth your time and money to have him thoroughly evaluated by a vet. Don't take chances and be stuck with an unrideable horse (like me!! or in my case 3!)

[Monty]

Listen to all that was said above -
When I was told about Monty - all they said was Paso - I said I would look at him,but if it was a Peruvian - I would pass on him - because of the DSLD problem with the breed !
Any breed can have it , but it seems Peruvians are really prone to it . DO a search about it - you may want to think twice about that horse. ;-)

[Heidi]

Don't count him out, there is a very good chance he will never develop DSLD! He looks nothing like my poor mare that had DSLD.

I had a DSLD Peruvian. Sweetest horse I've ever known.
This is Poquita:
Take note of her nearly level back pastern and leaning forward over her front end to take weight off her DSLD hind pasterns. Her back ankles and ligaments are also much larger than normal in addition to having "post legs" in back. (very straight up/down legs through the hock)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/78SilvAnniv/dh.jpg
She had to be euthanized when she ruptured one of her damaged ligaments when rising from the ground after a roll in the grass.
Heidi

[Beth Worden]

Well - can't tell much from that picture other than he is a big bay horse. Your best bet is to take someone with you (when looking at any horse) that knows the breed (PP's). I would say the best thing to remember is no matter what the breed, it's a horse. Take a knowledgeable horse person if you don't know any PP folks. And with any gaited breed you need to ride it. If this horse is any good at that price he will go fast. An under 10 year old gaiting gelding, sound and broke for trail for $2K - a real bargain.

[Carol Nelson]

Yes, of course, there is no way to diagnose any type of genetic disease from a photo...but a DSLD horse tends to look like it's standing on top of an overturned bucket. All four legs under himself.

[motorgypsy]

Since we have a "post legged" paso fino mare we were very concerned with DSLD. No she doesn't have it - hyperflexy. But the latest lit says the difinitive indicator is enlarged fetlock joints. The horse can be post legged and stay sound through old age. Other breeds can get DSLD but the DSLD that Peruvians get is devastating. They get it young, on all four legs and there is nothing that can be done to help it. They think it is genetic and affects the entire body's ligaments and tendons but shows up the most in the suspensories because they are stressed so much. Yes ultrasound is needed to rule it out. There are peruvians that don't have it but I wouldn't buy one unless I could see parents and grandparents sound to old age.

[Minouri]

I think you guys talked me right out of PPasos....lol

And you also made me feel incredibly lucky to have found Scooter. He was just sitting in someone's back yard......and I got him at age 9 for $2500. He needed some training but I'm not opposed to paying someone to help me train a horse. I've had him for about five years and (knock on wood) he has been sound and sane for five years so far......and has brought me incredible joy.

I knew what I was getting into when we took Snowy for free. I didn't realize how fast he would go so blind.....but I knew that at his age we'd have some complications.

Sigh, I'm just looking around now. Hoping to find a horse that Tony can safely enjoy as much as I enjoy Scooter.

Thanks to everyone who replied. I always learn so much on this board.

[Terry Wallace]

Just want to add one thing.....the horse does NOT, I repeat does NOT have to have excessive pastern angle to develop DSLD. I had a Paso Fino here with upright pasterns and the worst case of DSLD...so bad it tore one branch of the suspensory right in half.....so if you do have him vetted...be sure to get the TENDONS ultrasounded. ;-)

[Brigitte]

One thing caught my attention, they're selling him becuase he's too much? yet they rated him a 3 in a scale from 1-10?

[Jane Hurl]

Atta girl, Brigitte! Very observant.

Something is smelling a tad like a rat. I'd be very, VERY careful on this one!

[Beth Worden]

Two points I'd like to mention...

1. "Too much horse"

Many, many people not familiar with gaited breeds (especially paso types) feel like they are waay to much horse because they are "fast". I just picked up a beautiful TWH mare because she was too much horse from a family who had bought her for a 4-H hunter jumper. When I went to try her out the lady warned me that when you got in the saddle and asked her to step off to be ready to go. Her walk is not even that prompt, but to QH folks the mare was considered "rammy". I classify her as a beginner's mount. I have friend's who ride non-gaited horses and many of them feel the pasos - to a horse - are too much horse. People not familiar with "hot blooded" do not understand any horse that is not brain dead.

2. Scared away from PP's

A lot of PP blood is in our registered paso finos. As I have stated before I get a kick out of all the debate between PPR and Col pasos and NEVER a mention about the Peruvian paso fino mix!!! Don't throw the baby out with the wash water...PP horses are a wonderful breed and one that has chosen to "come clean" with a problem that affects the breed and OTHERS. By all means get the horse vetted throughly - as with ANY breed. If you are only paying 2K then spring for the vet checks prior to buying and if the horse proves unsound then you are out a couple hundred bucks. And if he/she is declared sound then you have your bargain.

[Terri]

I agree with Beth, go have a look see. CT isn't that far away and you don't want to pass up a good deal because what "might" be. Just dont' buy without a complete vet check, with this condition particularly on the vet's radar. I do have to say, that is a lousy picture for attempting to sell a horse. It isn't standing straight, it's ears aren't forward, just looks crummy and half hearted. Event the girl looks like she is yawning.

[dana]

Beth hit it right on the head with her example of the TWH mare! i was invited to go with friends who were asked to host an equitation clinic for a mounted sheriff's posse two weeks ago. they had great horses but in the equitation classes, only one out of about 90 horses actually knew how to step out and do a ground covering walk. she was obviously a gaited mare. had to stop her owner after she came out of the class to ask what breed she was as she was passing horses twice her size at the walk. she told me that she was a racking horse (?) and had bought her off the internet. only about 14 hands tall too.

dana

[CarolU]

Yeah, I have to agree with Beth. I think a good vet check is what you require. I certainly would not be 'scared off' without looking. I would not have bought Bella for any price if she weren't sound.

I have had people dislike Pasos because of how fast they WALK...yes walk. They move out and this scares people that aren't used to it. I can also see where wiggly-kids wig out otherwise calm horses. Pasos are very sensitive animals and if you have a kid that is constantly kicking or fidgeting, you may have too much horse for that kind of kid.

One other note on Peruvians, they also breed for a sweet disposition (something I wish more PF people did).

[Linda Y]

I totally agree. I didn't mean to sound like I was saying not to look at this horse...just to be careful.
I would definitely buy a PP if I found one to suit my needs, but only after a vet check. This gelding looks ok from what you can see. Some of them are so obvious you don't even need a vet.

[pasofantasy]

Other's have made good comments, such as the picture isn't a good one and DSLD being in that breed. As to the picture, I wonder what happened to the mane. I wouldn't be surprised if someone cut it, but Peruvians are also shown with long manes and tails.

I highly recommend videotaping horses before buying to view in slow motion and to show other equestrians. Not actually seeing a horse, in a video, I noticed lameness in a horse my friend had fallen for. In Peruvians, I wouldn't worry if the horse could gait. The Peruvians bred only for gaited horses and culled those, that didn't exhibit it years ago.

They have a wonderful disposition! My husband used to show one of the top Peruvian studs in the country. The owner's grandchildren would even throw the puppy on his back while he was waiting to perform. The mare took care of the kids! My girlfriend sold her mare to a beginner, who started showing her right away. They really are wonderful animals.

I know people with both breeds and some, who have switched from one to the other. We tried both to decide. I needed gaited horses due to my fused vertebrae. I found, that the paso fino gave me more beneficial exercise for my case. It's definitely worth checking! Remember that vet check with any horse before purchase!

[GeorgeGuns]

I'd sure go look at him, it may really be that the gait scared them. I'd also be sure to have the pasterns sono'd.

There is Suspensory Ligament Desmitis and then there is Degenerative Suspensory Ligament Desmitis and the difference will show on sonogram.

SLD - injury or stress related, may get worse as any injury may with added stress or mismanagement or just because, but generally treatable, even surgically
DSLD - doesn't have to be injury related, but may appear to be so if an owner isn't paying attention.

SLD - on sono, will show scar tissue,
DSLD - on sono will show actual bone formation within the ligament - this does NOT happen in plain old SLD.

SLD - treatable if not a bad injury and well managed
DSLD - no cure, management is aimed at comfort, not cure at this time.

I had my old mare sono'd a few years back because she does have an offspring with very flexy fetlocks and this mare had some suspensory problems. It turned out to be old injury, and she isn't even flexy - that actually came from the offspring's sire!

Tracing DSLD tendancy may be difficult even with a pedigree because its still very hush hush in much of the PP world. Not as much as say 10 years ago but its still like pulling teeth.

[karenf]

-at that price, you can afford a vet check with xrays. Do limb flexion test as well. I like Peruvians, though being married to a Colombian, it would be next to sacriledge for us to have anything but a Colombian Paso Fino. I like that the Peruvians are smooth, willing, though, overall seem a bit more introverted, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Sweet, sweet horses, don´t be discouraged. :D

[Descornex]

i have some older PP mares with great fairly upright pasterns. I have some with more flexy pasterns. My favorite one to ride is 18 years old, She has great legs, great showy gait and that nice docile PP disposition. In general, they have much less "attitude" than Pf's. Even the stallions seem to be quiet, gentle and obedient. They have brio under saddle though, nothing sleepy about them. They have great feet too.