Fino vs. classic fino vs....

[Edurne]

I saw that Lori (congratulations girl) won classic fino with her new mare. Can someone explain to me, understanding that I have no show experience and a pony who only wants "to go" or "go faster", what the differences are. Also how do you all decide that your horse is "fino" or "pleasure". I think I saw Nevado referenced as being both (correct me). Is the horse fino because he does that gait in preference to any other in the field, or is it because he is atheletically trained to do so? Performance, I understand is a flashy high step.

[Tina Calhoun]

Hi Edurne,

In a perfect world, the horse's natural way of going determines if he or she is fino, performance or pleasure. Training should only perfect the gait and not force the gait on the horse. We see both in the show ring - although natural is what our breed standard is.

Some very talented horses can go into other gaits naturally - for instance, Nevado is fino period. He cannot do performance nor pleasure. Loose on the reins, he finos on his own. So does our Springtime Pisorte - he feels comfortable in the fino gait and remains.

Some very talented horses are multi-gaited - naturally. But most aren't.

I hope this helps you.

[Edurne]

Thanks Tina..... what is fino vs. classic fino?

[LynnG]

Fino and Classic Fino is the same.... when someone is speaking of a fino gait. fino means "fine"..it is basicly the shortness of stride and quickness of footfall a Paso fino performs. Many Paso Finos can do more then one gait division, but not all can. A fino horse that can only fino is one that can't or won't extend in stride is the thought when ridden.... but these same horses can also do an extended gait when at liberty in the pasture and relaxed. The ones who can't extend in the pasture and also maintain the fine gait at liberty have strong fino tendencies. They also will fino with light contact and not held into a shorter step. Preferably is a lower action in a fino horse but balanced in its movements. Too high of a lift results in more time up and to come back down. There are many horses that can move in a fine collected way naturally especially when excited. Also what is the horse's preferred way of going when ridden. I have seen some that move one way and as they mature and develop want to move another way.

The proof is often in the pudding ...what type of gait is produced by the majority of the offspring and then take in consiseration the dam's gait style. Performance is usually with more execution of the hocks and front legs with a driving motion.

Hope this helps..... to understand it better Fino vs Classic Fino.

[Edurne]

Thanks Lynn,
A puzzling thought had been a comment made by a professional (ten years ago) about her performance gelding " perhaps I shall make him fino".

Certainly I have experienced Primero doing very fine collected footwork when he is with a large group of horses that is going to slowly for his taste.

So what is the criteria for choosing a "Pleasure" horse....

[GeorgeGuns]

First, "pleasure" - referring to show, or to a horse being an all around pleasure horse.

For show, its a lower action gait than performance but still with the flash and flair that separates the show horses from the average horses. Carlos Tobon pointed this out at a clinic after a show at Dillsburg a few years ago. Most of the horses were well gaited, and in the appropriate class, but the 1st place went to a horse that had that extra something. The horse should flat walk, corto, and largo.

For a personal pleasure horse, well, the criteria is personal.

Oh yeah - can't forget Western Pleasure - these horses are asked to canter or lope in addition to the paso gaits.

[LynnG]

A Pleasure horse for the showring, yes will have that extra spark or that look at me "presence". Alot of the same basic criteria can apply to all divisions...balance of movement and execution.

In the Pleasure division today we see the most variety in the way of going of the horses. Some will have fino tendencies, but weren't quick enough in footfall but still a low-medium "pleasure"execution...some will have performance tendencies with hock action but not as much front end execution or the opposite..more lift in front, but not the hock execution..... still the ideal would be a balanced moving horse in a even four beat gait ridden with light contact in a mildly collected form that can flat walk, then transition smoothly and willingly into a corto when asked, and then the same into a largo gait showing a noticeable change in forward speed. In pleasure, qualities also very important are the willingliness and manners of the horse, and smoothness of the ride. Generally if the horse is moving balanced with an even 4 beat footfall in a willing manner it will be smooth. Conformation often dictates whether the horse can move balanced. A back should be performed willingly with out headtossing and tail swishing. A Pleasure Horse should look like a "happy" horse and the rider should look like they are enjoying their ride and show it with a smile!

[motorgypsy]

AND it's that special "LOOK AT ME" something that can cause us problems with our breeding. When someone who does not have the best of the breed's future in mind, or just hasn't the knowledge to know any better, finds a horse who may not be particularly naturally gaited but has that FLASH, they may train or have someone else train the horse to do the correct paso fino gait and breed and show that horse because it is spectacular. This is NOT good for the breed obviously. Once that horse has been bred several times and the ofspring do not have good gait, the good breeders will no long use it but we will have introduced into our breed, addtional individuals who don't gait well. This is why it is so important to talk to knowledgeable people before breeding to a spectacular stallion. You want spectacular but you also want balanced and well gaited with the type of action and conformation that suits your mare and what you want to breed for. You also want the tractable disposition our stallions are famous for.

It is also somewhat of a misconception that high action is wanted in a performance horse. Lynn, Cindy and others are the experts here but it's POWER, SNAP, ENERGY and collection but full range of gait that to us characterized the performance horse, not high action. We have two mares who can be shown both pleasure and performance because they have that energy when asked for it but can relax into a flashy but lower energy gait also.

Fino also means two different things to Colombian, US and Puerto Rican breeders and shows by the way. Fino meaning fine step means a "feather touch" to the ground along with the collection in the Pure Puerto Rican show Paso Fino Horse. These horses truly have the delicate touch, low hands, quick step, yet power that is quite different from the US and Colombian fino horses who have a firmer step and more pistonlike, vertical movement. The Puerto Rican gait standard also allows for slightly lateral or slightly off even gait. The US standard does not.

Many of the US fino champions have a great range of gait including a wonderful largo. This includes the famous fino mare Maraquita la Rosa, who has set a new standard for speed and execution but who has a wonderful largo. The natural fino horse does indeed fino by choice, not because they are pushed into it. This is another thing to consider if you are thinking about breeding to a fino line. Do you want a horse who can only fino or one who can do all the gaits but prefers the fino. Again a knowledgeable person or persons can help you answer this question.

Pleasure in the US show ring has evolved to a more collected and tighter gait than some prefer but there is also a class called Country Pleasure which more closely matches the concept the general public would have of the pleasure paso fino. The Country Plesure horse really does a relaxed flat walk and very relaxed gaits just like you would see on the trails in a group of great trail paso fino horses. It's a fun class because it shows off just how calm our horses can be when we ask them to be calm but they are still spectacular!

[Moniece Dickerson]

There is a possibility I could be wrong and friends please correct me if I am but the way I understand it is Classic fino is when a horse is born fino...when that horse is not cantering that horse is finoing.

Fino horses can fino and fino well but are not "stuck in fino."Then there are horses that can fino but need training to help them with it however without that training they would not have picked fino as a way of goingThen there are also the horses that can fino but have to be hyped up before they will.

Please you all,I said I could be wrong here,if I am wrong please correct me but please do it nicely.I am not trying to start any arguements.

Your friend,Moniece

[motorgypsy]

classic fino is the gait they ask for in the fino class. Natural fino is the naem give to the ones who do it in the pasture or under saddle spontaneously without training. Again correct me if my brain has failed me!

[GeorgeGuns]

Classic vs Natural fino - the MGs have it. In my mind though, natural expands to include horses that can do fino with very little asking, even if they have a largo that is just as easy to find. I'm not sure I want to include the ones that fino only when really mad or scared at something, lol, or get mad when you ask for it even if they can do it easily (ie: they'd rather be largoing!).

[Edurne]

Thanks to Barbwire, we now have a great photo of a high knee (I am supposing you consider your horse performance???????). I rode Primero yesterday and hoped to have photos to examine, but somehow we sent them into cyberspace..... try again today. I watched his shadow and definitely his knees do not come up. Very different profile. This is all so interesting guys, and thanks for your patience with those of us who are new to the breed and all of its aspects. :D

[motorgypsy]

Here's one of our very naturally tight gaited stallion who by the way also has very nice largo. You can see that he has what they call low hands. He is smooth as silk but has the snap to his action that characterizes the Colombian paso fino. His gait is extremely even and he can go all day. He was shown and won in bella forma also. His lines are Resorte and Bochica.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/sultanps1.jpg

This is our highest action horse although her son is also very high action. She is 7/8 Puerto Rican with Hilachas a couple of times. I have no idea where this action comes from because her mom doesn't have it. She also has high hock action. She's a true "superlargo" horse - extremely fast.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/BRANDY6.jpg

So you can see there is a huge difference in action in our breed and it is born in them. Here's her son - the son of the low hands stallion and the high hands mom - got the high hands from the mom but the dad's less flexy suspensories which is why we bred to him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_0369a.jpg

[Edurne]

Thanks Motor Gypsies..... will spend a little time later looking at these.... but now a new question.... what is bella forma.... what does it mean or represent?

[motorgypsy]

Bella Forma pronounced Be ya Form a - is the paso fino halter class. And it is really classy. The people showing wear the black tuxedo costume with the nice black hats and the horse precedes the person instead of going beside the person although with the younger ones you just do the best you can. The stallions can be shown by two people at once - one on each side walking off to one side and kind of behind the horse so the horse "presents himself". It is really impressive!

Here is a stallion being shown bella forma. Notice the low hands on this one.

http://puertoricanpasofino.org/images/pasofino2.jpg

[Minouri]

This whole thread was really interesting to me.


I remember when I first got Scooter and I showed his pedigree to a Paso training facility. The trainer said, "Could be a show horse but he'll never fino."

I had no idea what that even meant....but I just nodded....lol Then as soon as I got home I looked it up on the internet.

It's amazing how much there actually is to know about Pasos. I wish I had found you all back when I was teaching Scooter to stay in his gait. For all I know I've cultivated a really good foxtrott.....lol

[Pasogirlz]

I have ridden several big time stallions that have a very nice range of gait besides being super fino when asked. In fact, I've seen our world champ mare Maraquita do a very nice ground covering largo when let loose. ;-) (Not Coral style largo, but pretty darn speedy for a world class fino mare).

Also, you will see different levels of collection, speed, and head set thru the training process. So the 3 yr old Fillies/Colts class is not expected to be as tight, collected, and slow forward motion as the finished horses. Mina is only 4 and was started late (probably a good thing). The judges did mention in the championship class that she had a little more forward movement then the first place horse, but it was not held against her b/c she was simply a bigger mare.