Freezing semen with older stallions

[LynnG]

I'd like to hear breeders' experiences with freezing semen from older stallions and also mare owners' experiences using frozen semen from older stallions (an age for that matter).......................

How many people here have bought straws? I know Monarca de BEsilu had straws for sale at one time...I think they may be all gone now. Any other famous aged, now infertile or deceased stallions have straws available today?

[Mellifluous]

Tami P could probably fill you in. I think she has used frozen semen from some of the deceased stallions with success. She also has good knowledge about freezing. Actually, I think she is a walking encyclopedia sometimes. ;-)

Lynn,

From what I remember there were only 40 straws of Monarca de Besilu left when he died. I bought 9 of them and have only used 4 and none of the mares settled. Carolyn von Rosenberg said it was my mares, but if you read the articles, the success rate isn't as good as AI or live cover. The mares that did not settle with the frozen semen all settled with live cover and had foals.

Also, what is the success rate on frozen embryos or eggs? I would rather save the eggs from great mares than the semen from great stallions.

Several of the BB members are taking a repro course in Ocala in October and the company doing the class also collects and freezes semen as well as teaching your stallion to ground collect at an additional cost.

Marelyn

[LynnG]

I have heard with frozen semen, multiple #of straws should be used.... quite a few (don't know #) for most success. My vet clinic is doing that also. They said to collect and freeze it, then unthaw one to check for viability after unthawing..... before any breeding with other straws.

Collecting/freezing younger stallions might do better then older stallions who may be already encountering fertility issues.

Thanks for the feedack.

[Privatetreaty]

Armando Villar, the owner of Rancho La Rosa has been conserving Vitral semen for years. Get ready, the following may be a little confusing.

Last year, Armando purchased an embyro from La Ovacion and bred her to El Classico de Plebeyo, thus producing a full sister to Classiquita de la Libertad.
Her name: Classiquita de la Rosa.

His intent is to use his Vitral semen with this filly, in order to obtain a full brother/sister to El Imponente de la Libertad.

Check out the line-
http://www.pasoregistry.com/db/Tree.asp?ID=111920

[Candice Burger]

I can only iterate what I've read or been told by my vet.

What I've read about older stallion and freezing semen is the tendency for older stallion to have volumes of ejaculate that is mostly seminal fluid and not sperm. The problem is more about fertility at that age. Freezing the semen for a horse that has a lower sperm count means larger straws to get the same number of sperm that a more fertile stallion would have. Also the sperm structure may be compromised due to age. So those two factors make it more difficult for aged stallion's frozen semen. This is why vets promote freezing the semen during the prime productive years. There is little understanding beyond motility of how freezing might compromise the sperm, but I would think that relates to any age stallion.

What my vet has told me about conception is the management of the receptive mare is very critical. Unlike cooled semen that has a larger window to inseminate, frozen semen has at most a 6 hour window. He monitors the mare through ultrasound and inseminates precisely during the optimal time in that window. He does a 24 hour on the clock work for frozen semen and his conception rate is 100% so far. He continues to beat the drum about the ideal mare for AI or straws: between 4-10 years old, has conceived and foaled under natural conditions without assistance, cycles strongly and regularly.

I know that Monarca de Besilu had straws. I've heard that Plebeyo, Temblor de Terremoto and Carmin had straws as well.

If I had an aged stallion and wanted the chance to see him "live" for ever, I'd go for it. Plain and simple. If you don't, when he's gone, he's gone for good. My vet has indicated that I could maintain my own stallion's straws at home without a problem. With today's technology, you could preserve the straws until the day they know more about the procedure and then use them to your advantage. It may not be so very far away when vet science will have the knowledge to deal with an aged horse's fertility problems. 5-10 years is not that long.... If you don't preserve the semen, then IF there is a break in the science, you've lost out.

[Mellifluous]

I would say take the stallion to a place that freezes and have them perform a test freeze/thaw to see how many sperm survive the process. That would give you a good idea as to whether or not it would be worth the effort of freezing multiple straws. You never know until you try.

[LynnG]

My vet reccomends freezing and then in a relative time period, unthaw a few to check viability of that collection. and then go from there.

There are many factors to per stallion collection that could affect semen, time of year/length of daylight hrs, temperature, how often the stallion is being collected regularly, last time of collection, general health, collection management and semen handling...

should apply to older as well as young. Recall a famous race horse that was actually considered sterile and he wasn't old.

A recently deceased famous stallion has frozen semen straws, but I bet the owners are picky about which mares get straws. Once they are gone, they are gone.

PS. Research has shown frozen semen does not survive as long once inseminated into the mare as chilled or fresh semen does, so the small window period towards ovulation is crucial.

[Mellifluous]

PS. Research has shown frozen semen does not survive as long once inseminated into the mare as chilled or fresh semen does, so the small window period towards ovulation is crucial.

Yup - True 'dat! Using frozen for Lady. She will be getting HCG when the time is right and ultrasounds every 6 hours until she ovulates. I bet she is thrilled with that! :-? My vets method for using frozen is to try to inseminate 6 hours before ovulation and get another dose in within 6 hours after ovulation.

Costs a bit more than using chilled since there are so many ultrasounds needed.

[LynnG]

mel, was the stallion's frozen semen been checked (prior to insemination) by unthawing a straw to check for its viability before breeding?

[CarolU]

Lynn, you might talk to Denise about it. I know she has a many of Contratista frozen and then checked for viability. His apparently is very good, so it depends on the horse. I think Candice posted some very good information there. I was interested to read about usuing several straws, which really makes sense.

The 'trick' to ultra-cold storage is the thawing process. In the lab we had best survivability with bringing the temperature up gradually. Moving from ultra cold (or liquid Nitrogen) to a regular freezer, then to fridge, then to room temperature, and finally to 37 degrees C.

[Mellifluous]

mel, was the stallion's frozen semen been checked (prior to insemination) by unthawing a straw to check for its viability before breeding?

Yes - he has decent numbers, not perfect but good enuff to get the job done.

[Mellifluous]

Just got the word from my vet - Lady ovulated and was inseminated within 4 hours of ovulation. VERY exciting! He checked the semen and said that it looked really good. He was impressed with the quality. We'lll see if it did it's job in a couple of weeks. Fingers and toes and anything else I can thing of are crossed! 8-)

[Misssc]

Well, my Peruvian Paso mare had a filly this year from frozen semen.

The straws I had were collected when the stallion was 20 years old. I was sent six straws and my mare bred on two. This stallion froze very well and was only available frozen, he is now deceased.

It is my understanding that success with frozen semen depends on how well the stallion freezes, the mare, and the vet you use. Storage of the straws can also play a role. The only way to test a stallion is to freeze and breed mares and hope for foals, :D

[Pasogirlz]

Misssc http://bestsmileys.com/welcome/1.gif
Glad to have you here. You will have to share some pix of your Peruvian Paso. Let us know if you need any help posting pix or uploading an avatar next to your name. ;-)

[Privatetreaty]

Welcome Misssc


.

[echo]

Welcome, MissSC.

Rick Meyer told me at the Irvan's fun show that he is selling the straws collected from Majestuoso. I've had enough troubles with AI, I don't think I'm going to be financing an excursion into frozen semen any time soon. :smile:

[LynnG]

From what I've learned from recent research, older stallions do not freeze well where it would be viable when unthawed to implant in an egg. The young stallions should have this done if valuable.

I would not be buying any straws unless they had been proven successfully more then once. There can often be offspring of many of a stallion still found available for sale or breeding, even if the stallion is deceased.

[Jaci]

How many people here have bought straws?

Lynn

I can't speak for Paso Fino but I know several people that have done this with old arab stallions with good success... From what I have been able to gather it isn't so much the process but who is doing it... My one friend had flown in a vet from Colorado state do do her 3 old stallions. She is a preservation Arab breeder so preserving the old lines is important to them. I don't think they woud do it if it didn't work.

The one group that she is with is called The Pasha group. You might want to contact them via the internet and see what their experiences have been. I know that they have been doing this for some time now. And you can contact my friend Diana at Bint Al Bahar Arabians on the web. She is very helpful. Just tell her you got her info from me.

Mary Wadsworth used frozen semen before but that was before AI

Jaci

[Terry Wallace]

Jaci..was it done at CSU, Fort Collins? They are the repro pros in this state... ground breaking tecnology, huge ET program, the know how to preserve that semen and a great team to do it.

[Jaci]

Jaci..was it done at CSU, Fort Collins? They are the repro pros in this state...

Pretty sure that was where the vet/vets was from...
A friend/ repo vet of mine here in the Phoenix area hosted the vets... Like I had said the stallions that were being collected were old. The preservation arab breeders are only breeding from the orginal 6 or 9 stallions that were orginally imported in this country... so you can imagine how important it is for them to do this and how old the stallions are that they are freezing.

I don't know how successful they are but they woud be the ones that I would contact...
Here is a link to her web page http://www.babsonarabians.com/

Jaci