best friend's horse got attacked by pit bull at Asheville [Archive]

Dianne

06-26-2006, 03:22 AM

I am SO sorry to hear that! I was at Ashville show on Sat and heard some of the story..but not all..and I am glad the pit bull was put down..shame on those dog owners!
I took 2 of my JRTs there this weekend so i could find them new homes and thank God i did..it was very hard to give up my babies I had raised..but while i was there I was walking the female outside on leash and another dog (collie) came racing up all agressive (leash dragging) and then this persons JRT came running up to attack as well..if I hadnt picked my dog up real quick she would have been in a real bad situation...! the owner didnt say anything but call inefectually for his dogs to "come" yeah right....I was pissed
I have watched the dog whisperer on TV and thank God his teaching stuck cause I turned and stepped IN to each of those dogs and said"shhhhh" and they backed off! Marvelous stuff

Barbwire

06-26-2006, 03:27 AM

Oh no, Dianne, you had to give up your babies? I am so sorry to hear that. :(

Moniece Dickerson

06-26-2006, 06:27 AM

My friend that was at the show told me about the attack.Aside of the dog being put down I sure hope the owner was EXTREMELY sorry and offered right away to cover all vet bills for your friends mare!!The shows need to do a better job of making sure dog owners have their dogs properly contained at the show!A good stiff fine for every dog seen not properly,properly being the key word, contained no matter the breed with no exceptions would be a good start.A big sign with red letters at the entry gate would inform everyone coming to the show of the new fine and that it will be enforced with NO exceptions.They want people to show their expensive and well trained horses and for people to feel comfortable about attending the shows so they need to take measures to asure no person or horse will be attacked.I'm so sorry your friends horse was attacked by that dog!!Your friend,Moniece

Fuego

06-26-2006, 11:47 AM

The events of this thread really tick me off.
Wouldn't be surprised to hear of a total dog ban now at shows because of the idiot owner of the pitbull, collie, and JRT ( No not Diane, the one that came after her JRT)

It's nearly impossible to find a boarding barn that allows dogs to come to the barn, and I completely understand why. But it still burns my *ss that me and my dog get restricted because of so many irresponsible ( stupidity beyond belief) dog owners.

Glad to hear the pitbull was put down, to bad the owner wasn't put down with the dog. THAT would have been fair and just!

And the Collie/JRT owners is lucky they had Diane to deal with instead of me, cuz the owner probably would have preferred a pit bull attack instead of me, after I had finished with them!

Absolutely NO excuse for these dog owners. If the Collie and JRT weren't properly socialized to be at a public event, then they had no business being there.

Perhaps if the dog owners were held accountable for the actions of their animals ( instead of simply killing the dogs or making rules banning all dogs) we'd see less of these unneccessary and inexcusable acts of irresponsibility.

Just another reason why I support mandatory sterilization of humans. If they can't be responsible for somethng as simple as a dog, they have no business being allowed to raise children!!!

CarolU

06-26-2006, 11:52 AM

Mitch, I really agree with you.

When I was a kid I had a Britney that was inseperable to my horse. I took her everywhere with me, trail riding, shows, 4-H, everywhere. I wouldn't dare to do that now. I always train my dogs to be very obbedient...it is not my dog's behavior I worry about - it is some butt-head with a Pit Bull or similar dog that is not trained and attacks. It really does make me think I should get my concealed/carry permit to carry a gun riding JUST in case.

Stories like this scare me to death. I hope they charge the owner of the dog THOUSANDS of dollars in vet bills and emotional damage to that horse.

LynnG

06-26-2006, 12:59 PM

First of all, Congratulations Cassie on winning (earning) the $500 savings bond for collecting the most feed proof of purchase seals for the Futurity program over the past year and presented to her at the show!

Cassie, I'm glad your friend's horse will be okay. The steward wrote up the incident in a report, so hopefully there will be some change for the future's shows.

I heard the story from the show steward on Sunday. He said the pitbull was being walked on a chain and the chain broke loose. the dog attacked the horse at the throatlatch, the horse ran from the lower level stall area all the way to the entrance area of the main show arena with the dog still attached to the horse's throat. OK, now what if this dog had attacked a child? A horse bad enough.

Ok, my thought is owners need to leave their dogs at home period! I saw more dogs at this show then I have ever seen before, and inside the arena building at that! Why do owners have to bring their dogs to a horse show? It is not a dog show, but in the walkway around the arena you wonder...yes, people oooh and ahhh over the dogs. BUt as a judge inside the arena I have seen dogs in the seating area spook horses within a class. Now why should an exhibitor within a class have to worry about a dog in the stands for the sake of their horse's performance? They have paid too much money and time invested in training and to be at the show. Now it may not happen often, but it has/does happen... animals (horses) react to other animals (period).

There used to be a rule about no dogs in the Asheville show arena facility. But people got slack, and started slipping them in, and now it seemed to be the in thing to do for many. And in the case of this tragic dog attack, leave your dogs at home or boarded in a kennel!

Brigitte

06-26-2006, 01:05 PM

Glad to hear the dog was put down, hopefully the owner will learn a lesson. Also good to know that the horse is ok

Pasogirlz

06-26-2006, 01:26 PM

I heard about that. :shock: So sad. I hope the horse is not traumatized for life, poor thing.

cowboy ed

06-26-2006, 01:29 PM

my experience, the horse is less troubled by this than people. my mare that was attacked by a pit bull several years ago, seems to have no fear or concern at all for dogs.

my opinion, i like my dogs, but i dont take them to horse shows. i get irritated by people who do. leave them home, or board them somewhere if there is nobody to take care of them while you are gone.
how would you feel if i went to the dog show and brought my horse??????

PASOFAN

06-26-2006, 02:03 PM

First of all, Congratulations Cassie on winning (earning) the $500 savings bond for collecting the most feed proof of purchase seals for the Futurity program over the past year and presented to her at the show!

Cassie, I'm glad your friend's horse will be okay. The steward wrote up the incident in a report, so hopefully there will be some change for the future's shows.

Ok, my thought is owners need to leave their dogs at home period! I saw more dogs at this show then I have ever seen before, and inside the arena building at that! Why do owners have to bring their dogs to a horse show? It is not a dog show, but in the walkway around the arena you wonder...yes, people oooh and ahhh over the dogs. BUt as a judge inside the arena I have seen dogs in the seating area spook horses within a class. Now why should an exhibitor within a class have to worry about a dog in the stands for the sake of their horse's performance? They have paid too much money and time invested in training and to be at the show. Now it may not happen often, but it has/does happen... animals (horses) react to other animals (period).

I agree! Horse shows are for horses. really bothers me to see dogs at the shows too, no matter how big or small... And I am a dog lover, just leave them at home...

I sure hope that horse gets back to showing and isnt tramatized, I am sure it will take some time for that horse to be ok.. Sad thing to happen..

baileyholc

06-26-2006, 02:31 PM

First, Congradulations Cassie. I am sorry that happed to your friend.

OK, the thoughts of an x pit owner. And I am not saying this to start a war of words on the board. Pits were bread to take down Bulls. That was their intentions. Pits now are bread to fit and kill other animals. People breed for aggresion. What I should say is the BACK YARD breeder breeds for aggression. The responsable breeder that breeds for show does not.

I will not have a pit for any reason. They are very good guard dogs they love their family and will not let anyone harm them. That is the problem, if the dog is not introduced to the stranger the dog will think of it as a threat. Pits are very territorel. It is the owner that is responsable for the way a dog, any dog, acts toward others. If owners took time to learn about the breed of there animal, and took the reputation of their breed seriously, attacks like this one would not have happened. I would not have taken a Pit Bull to a horse show or a trail ride or even have a pit on a farm with live stock. Pit bull are not a hurding dog.

TrueStepPaso

06-26-2006, 02:57 PM

I was going to stay off this one, but I have to agree with Fuego mostly......not to mention I OWN A PITBULL, and she is THE BEST dog I've owned out of the 10+ that have been in my family since I was a baby.....none of those "10+" were Pitbulls, btw. They were Golden Retrievers, Labs, and mostly English Setters.

I will sharply defend this breed.

Remember, its not the PASO, its the trainers/riders/handlers/owners.
It is NOT the Pitbull, its the OWNER.

My dog has been my companion with me on the trails since she was a puppy.....she is 5 now, and she LOVES going to the farm.
I am so sick of hearing about the one Pitbull attack here and there....um, yeah..what about the Cocker Spaniels & Labs that attack kids daily we don't hear about??? The MEDIA is starting a world wide panic about this breed........I pray I don't see the most ignorant comment one could make about this breed on here: locking jaws :-?
They're called books. Read them.

I hope someday everyone gets to meet a Pitbull like mine.....one who takes care of four week old kittens like they're her own, or lets an eight week old Sh!t-Zu take a treat out of her mouth, OR walks over to me to patiently wait while I pry a ferret from her lip, OR immediately lays down when I shouted "down" while another dog continue to attack her until the owner came and hauled the dog off of mine (this has happened twice).
I take my job as a dog owner seriously, especially since I own a pitbull...I have to be MORE responsible than the next guy because, unfortunately, I am constanly battling the breed's stereotypes.

P.S......the Dog Whisperer is something EVERY dog owner should watch.

Serendipity

06-26-2006, 03:13 PM

I have to agree and disagree with some of you.What was done with this dog was the right actuion any dog that attacks is unsafe and does not belong in public.

Cassie also Congrats 8-)

But the no dogs at the arena is very unfair I tend to not go to these shows because I have Jinx and she is more people than dog.She cant stay at a kennel because she panics.This dog goes every where with us she is very well behaved why do I have to be punished for owning a dog I love kids but have seen more problems with kids at the barns than dogs.

My dog is always on a leash always,when we are in our classes Sandy will puppysit her and we take a kennel to place her in in the back of Sandy's booth out of site out mind and safe.when we go in and watch the show in the arean Jinx is with us but once we sit down she is told to down and stays there till we go.

I remenber sitting in front of a few ladys that where complaining about a dog that was behaving badly and saying all the reasons dogs should not come and how there were no good dogs,blah,blah,blah.when I got up to leave and jinx fallowed they shares a very deer in the head light look I just said not all dogs are bad.

I strongly feel dogs should be allowed at the show they are part of the family(or the family in our case)But owners should be remermanded for dogs out of control,A few fines and people will straiten up. loose dog-fine,
dog misbehave in areana-fine,dog showing any aggression-must leave or be contained at once.

I wish some of these rules could pertain to some kids also,though like dogs its not there fault its the parents that let them run wild.One show a group of kids went around letting horse out of stalls that was uncalled for and if my kid would not have been unable to sit for a month :!: (but thats why I have a dog and not kids)

Also I would have no proble with someone bringing a horse to a dog show,I have seen people take there minis to dog show so why not

cowboy ed

06-26-2006, 03:26 PM

nicole, you know that about your dog, but other people dont and HORSES dont! read those comments again about horse's reactions to dogs in the stands or along the rail. it isnt fair to the horse owners who have a lot invested in the show, then have to wonder how their horse might react to a dog nearby.
as "human" as you might make your dog, it is still a dog. it is a predator animal, and a horse is a prey animal.
unforeseen circumstances can create situations that result in unexpected and often dangerous outcomes when the two species intermingle. in the best interest of everyone, especially a very large crowd of horses and people, i think it is best to leave the dogs home!

Serendipity

06-26-2006, 03:43 PM

I disagree when you go to most farms there are dogs horses and dogs go together.and I'm well awhere of the spending money and horse being spooked going around the areana My mare has been spooked on 2 occations not by dogs but by kids(facts)running up and down the seats,hanging over top.

most areana have 2 sets of seating one closer to the ring and the ohter more away maybe dog owners should sit here so they are not a distraction to the horses.

But I still seen no differance in a badly behaved dog and a badly behaved child both should not be allowed in the areana because they could spook horses.But those that are are well behaved why should they be punished?I've never seen a horse spooked by a well behaved child or a well behaved dog.
I'm detail orented so I would notice,

Jinx at the AL Show
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/leahbrat/DSC01672.jpg

06-26-2006, 03:50 PM

I went to see a friend this weekend that had gotten a pup from a litter my pitbull Janet had about 4 or so years ago.
She called me last week to tell me Mia's (the dogs) story.

4 years ago Mia showed up at the animal shelter, I don’t know the whys or hows but she was picked up as a stray and she was not in the greatest shape. Nicki who worked at the animal shelter knew what my dog Janet looked like and thought that this dog was Janet they looked so much alike. I knew it wasn’t but just out of curiosity I went over there to see her. Sure enough it was a Janet pup. Nicki adopted her and it could not have been a better match. 3 years ago Mia was taken from my friend backyard. She looked forever for this dog, Mia could have been the ambassador to the breed. She was very even tempered, beautiful conformation, and most of all of good breeding background. Nicki thought she was gone forever.
4 months ago a dog was picked up half dead in a empty lot. Her teeth had been filed down with what looked like a horse hoof rasp, half her ear was gone, a bone was sticking out of her front leg, she was covered in ticks, fleas, and maggots and half blind. Nicki said that as soon as this dog seen who she was Mia’s tail started going crazy. Nicki had no idea who this dog was until they scanned for a mico-chip. Sure enough it was Mia. Mia now walks with a pretty bad limp, had no teeth whatsoever, her tongue hangs out of her mouth, is missing half her ear, and is going blind. But, she still wags her tail when she meets new people and Nicki says she licks everyone to just say hello.
I guess what I am trying to say is that most of the time it is not the dogs fault but the human who owns the dog. From what we can guess whoever took her wanted to bred her but found out she had been fixed so they filed her teeth and used her as a bait dog. People are so mean, now I know why I spend so much time with animals. As far as horse shows, I have seen dogs, kids, people moving chairs, flags distract horses.

cowboy ed

06-26-2006, 04:02 PM

nicole, it is different having dogs on your farm, or going to someone else's farm and they have dogs. the horseshow environment is different. i think that OUT OF RESPECT for horse owners and spectators, it would be best to leave the dogs at home, or if you must bring them, keep them in your hotel room, or LQ. that is what i do with my dogs, and if i can do it, so can everybody else. i know the last year i went to nationals, there was a sign advising, NO DOGS in the covered arena area.

i'll agree to disagree with you on this subject. :smile:

LynnG

06-26-2006, 04:10 PM

So if the rules say no dogs allowed in the horse show arena area...I do hope that people who bring dogs to shows heed that rule. This was a rule at this arena at one time. It got where no one enforced it, and every year more and more dogs show up in the show arena. It can be a crowded throughfare around the arena with vendors set-up, so tell me dogs like to be in tight crowds and get their toes stepped on and be hahpy about it. If dogs come to the show they need to stay in the barn area, not in the arena.

TrueStepPaso

06-26-2006, 04:12 PM

RR.....that is heartbreaking.....you got a few tears outta me...

baileyholc

06-26-2006, 05:04 PM

True, I am with you on the bad rep on the Pits breed. I can see you are a good owner but not every owner is like you. The Pits I had I did not raise. We had three at different times. All three belonged to my X's brothers. We ended up with them becouse we had property for the dogs to run. Mind you we had these dog at different times and not all together. But as soon as they showed aggresion I told my X to get ride of them or else. I did not what the dogs around my babies. If the dogs had been raised and trained by me it would have been a different story. But they weren't and I was not taking anychances with my girls. Or my dogs. It is the resposability of the owner to care and train these dogs any dog for that mater. But, the breed has a bad rep becouse of the unresponsable breeder that breeds for the aggression in the breed not the other way around. RR posted that her pits showed very even temperments, beautiful conformation, and good breeding background. I call that a responsable breeder. I would go as far to say that she most likely made sure her pups were going to a home were they would have been loved and not used has fighting dogs. The dog she discribed in her post would have been the dog I would have in my home with my girls, and around my animals.

RR, I am glad your friend found her dog.

Fuego

06-26-2006, 05:12 PM

I agree that responsponsible dog owners and dogs get penalized because of the irresponsible owners and inappropriate dog behavior.
But what else can you do?

My Aussie is well socialized and goes as many places as possible with me. As a matter of fact, he goes with me more often then not.
I'm even driving 35 miles each way to the farm I board at mainly because my dog IS allowed to come to the farm ( I do understand why most boarding farms DON'T allow dogs).

But I also know my dog would get excited, especially near the ring seeing all the horses go whizzing by. He'd want to go play with them, get excited and bark and jump around ( even if on a leash). So for that simple fact, I'd never take him to a show. That's totally inappropriate and unacceptable behavior, and totally unfair to show exhibitors that may have a horse that is not not familiar or comfortable with dogs.

Unfortunately, there are too many selfish people that simply don't care. So I can see a ban on dogs at horse show being warranted. Makes me mad, but completely understandable.

I also understand Nicole's point of veiw, since she has a well behaved dog that wouldn't be /cause a problem.

The idiots always seem to ruin things for the decent folks.

Not a pitbull owner ( and doubtfully ever will be), but I also will defend the breed as an outstnading family companion when bred and handled properly. It really isn't any different then the bad rep pasos get for being high strung, crazy, stupid and dangerous. Almost always, the horses have been MADE that way by stupid people. The horses aren't to be blamed anymore then the pitbulls are. people should be held accountable for the actions of their animals ( 4 and 2 legged alike)

CarolU

06-26-2006, 05:17 PM

I agree with Ed about leaving the dogs home (should leave unruly kids home too..or make them behave - JMHO). I was at Nationals a few years ago and some people behind me had a very sweet Corgi. The dog mostly slept, but when it did awake and wanted to go out, they ignored it...so it peed right there, splattering pee all over the back of my head and the other people I was sitting with. It was disgusting! And they did nothing to clean it up...just left it and moved elsewhere.

I've stepped in dog poop in the barn aisles at Nationals and on the lawns. That many people/dogs in a confined area, and then the owners don't clean up after the dogs. They don't deserve to have their dogs with them. Yes, it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone, but they have IMO.

Also, you can speak for how YOUR dogs/horses get along, but many horses have had bad experiences with strange dogs and are afraid of them.

Dogs DO NOT belong at horse shows.

CarolU

06-26-2006, 05:19 PM

Also...I have 3 horses that try to kill strange dogs. So, if your dog was killed by my horse at a horse show where dogs are NOT supposed to be, whose fault is it?

Serendipity

06-26-2006, 07:45 PM

CarolU that was a cruel post!
But given the situation if I walked by you and your horse first I would ask is it safe to pass when you said no I would go another way(speaking for me)If I was siting in a chair out side my stall and you wanted to pass by you could simple say my horses hates dogs and I would pick her up or move in front of Jinx so all is safe to pass.if you did not mention your horse hate dogs and stomped for no reason and the dog was not in the way then that would be your fault for not controling your horse or if my dog was in the ailes and I was not around and your horse hurt the dog that would be my fault for not controling the dog.Or if your horse came out of nowhere to attack a dog like got loose from you that is a dangerous horse and maybe should meet the fate same at this dog first discrided because then it would not only be a danger to dogs but to anyone else

I have a horse thats hates motor scooters and all at last Nat'ls people kept zooming by on motor bikes,hello,but that was okay.

Cowboy Ed I agree to disagree with you,Though you don't believe dogs should be at shows,I will always make a point to show a dog can go to a show and be an ambasitor,We do clean up after ours,we do bring a kennel,she is not left unattended,she is trained,all the hotals we have been at won't let you leave your dog,and my pockets are not deep enough to buy a horse trailer with living quarters or a slide in camper.
Also last year a dog almost died because it was in a camers and the A/C quit That was terrifing to me

baileyholc

06-26-2006, 08:10 PM

I was at Bristal for a NASCAR race one year. It was cold and their was people with dogs their. This one group of people had to black labs in their camp. The dogs were well trained and the people picket up after them and kept them on leashes. A campsite not far from them dicided to shot off some fire works early and the dogs got spooked and rain off. They broke through the camper window and was gone. I don't know if they ever found the dogs I hope they did. But, it goes to show that their is alway something that will couse a dog to get spooked as well as anyother animal. It is not always the owener fault eather. If your dog is well trained and you are a responsable pet owner their is alway going to be a downfall.

TrueStepPaso

06-26-2006, 08:36 PM

I have a horse thats hates motor scooters and all at last Nat'ls people kept zooming by on motor bikes,hello,but that was okay.

good point. so if your horse hates them, and stomped someone flat as a pancake, who's fault would it be...or would that only depend if there was a sign up restricting motorbikes....??? ;-)

CarolU

06-26-2006, 09:23 PM

Nicole, I'm not sure what you found cruel about my post.

Trooper and Buddy think dogs should be flat and TRY to stomp them and make them so. Diablo has and will kick any dog that gets near him. If you were walking one way down an aisle and I was leading or riding him, in the same aisle, I can almost guarentee you he would kick at your dog - with very deadly intent. I'm not saying this to be cruel...it is just the way it is.

I used to have heeling dogs (long before these horses) and they nipped at the horses...it wasn't long before all my horses kicked at dogs.

Look, I have dogs. I have very well trained dogs. But I don't take my dogs with me on horse activities, even though they sit, lay, stay, or kennel on command...and will do so for long periods of time.

Blameitonbrio

06-26-2006, 09:28 PM

I was in Asheville Thursday and Friday and I was amazed at the number of dogs in the building since there was a sign on the door saying "No Dogs Allowed."

PasoVicki

06-26-2006, 09:41 PM

So, if your dog was killed by my horse at a horse show where dogs are NOT supposed to be, whose fault is it?

Strictly in my opinion, if a horse (or any other animal) were to kill a dog (or any other animal) in a place where the first animal is supposed to be and the second (killed) animal is *not* supposed to be, *usually* the blame lies with the owner of the second (dead) animal. I know accidents happen to the best pet owners . . . but, in general, if an animal's owner takes his/her animal into an area where that animal is specifically prohibited to be, whatever happens is that animal's owner's fault. Rules are put in place for a reason. If I walk my dog into a crosswalk against a red light, and he gets hit by a car, it's my fault.

Sorry this came out so muddled.

Serendipity

06-26-2006, 10:00 PM

CarolU the cruel part of your post was the no Couth way you said it,simply. I feel everyone is open to there own opionions but the way you say thing holds a lot of water.

If you believe in not taking a dog to a show then don't,I do so I do, I manage my dog an accident could happen like anything else but my dog would not bite anything for any reason this I know as a fact tryed and true.

If you can't handle your dog and make it behave leave it at home.If the sign says no dogs in the arena then keep them out.But theres nothing wrong with them in the barn area also if the show wants totally no dogs they need to put that on the show forms that way when people decided what shows they will want to go to if they need ones that are dog freindy then they know where to go and vise versa

If you could not control your horse going down an Aisle way for the safty of others then your horse also does not belong at a horse show.Horses that tend to kick at dogs also tend to kick at other things.

If I see a dog misbehaving then I have been know to say something to them to bad one can't be so liberal with kids.

CarolU

06-26-2006, 10:15 PM

I didn't know I was "no couth"... interesting.

Sorry if you don't care to have my opinion stated so simply. None the less, that is my opinion. I have just seen too many situations where dogs cause problems in public places - and it's always "someone elses" dog. Last year I saw a little boy's leg bitten and bloody when two dogs - on leashes - attacked each other. He just happened to be inbetween. This was at an Arts Festival. Now if no one HAD to bring their dog, the little boy would not have been hurt.

And I'm sorry about the story from Nationals last year...having a dog pee on you, has a tendency to change your opinion about how cute and welcome they are.

Diablo has a bad attitude about dogs because they run out of driveways and try to bite him. I don't blame him for kicking dogs.

Serendipity

06-26-2006, 10:40 PM

CarolU I guess you and I also will have to agree to disagree here.
I don't believe in a horse kicking for any reason,One filly kicked at me in the arena in a class and cost us placement that horse was not excused and I was counted down due to mine getting upset at being kicked at.

One day CarolU you and I should meet just thing of the open debates we could have then ;-)

Pasofinoguy

06-26-2006, 11:17 PM

I wonder what farm these people were with. And I sure hope that they are forced to pay for the damage to the horse. I also hope that someday these places we show will enforce there rules like the no dogs in the barn rule. Are they liable now.

SandyMM

06-26-2006, 11:22 PM

The dog owner was visiting some exhibitors. I don't believe the dog was up at the arena. The owner said he had a choker collar on and was on a leash (tied?) when he broke away and attacked. She insisted the dog be put down immediately and has offered to pay all th evet bills... if she is able or follows through remains to be seen...

Pasofinoguy

06-26-2006, 11:24 PM

Well i have had 2 pit bulls. THey are great around family but I would never, never tie one up in a strange place. They are animal agressive and some are trained to turn that to human agression. Now I have been bit by a cocker spanial and a hunting dog but never from a pit. I think my grandpas puddle even got me once. Anyway people should use more since when dealing with animals with a large prey drive.

LynnG

06-26-2006, 11:39 PM

Inside the show arena area on Sunday, I saw a large poodle, a german shepherd, several chiwawa's and another small type dog. I imagine there were more in the seating area as there usually are....these I saw from walking the vendor thoroughfare. The small dogs had leashes on them and often were carried. Heck otherwise they might get stepped on. I would just as soon not see them in the main arena which is where Jeany said it was posted "No Dogs" ..most people are coming in the side doors from the barns and do not see the signs most likely. maybe next year they can have rules posted more all over and make announcements.

there is no reason why a horse owner at a show should need to worry about a dog in the main arena or in the barn area attacking or bothering a horse. If dogs are brought they should be in a confined area such as in a tack stall (not tied outside of that) or ac LQ, away from kids or horses. Even in a tack stall it could irritate a horse in an adjacent stall with scratching or barking.

This unfortunate and preventable incident no doubt will create stricter rules next year.

PasoPerson38

06-27-2006, 12:38 AM

Wow! I pray that the horse is safe and comfortable!
The PFHA better watch out or they will get sued for not having a rule against dogs.

PattiB

06-27-2006, 12:41 AM

I take my dogs to shows with me, but they are usually left in my camper. When I do take them to the barn it is before the show starts or after. I have taken them into the arena area but I sit up high and away from people. I don't leave them unattended in the barn.

Monty

06-27-2006, 12:51 AM

JMHO - but I didn't find Carol's question cruel - just reality! :roll:

echo

06-27-2006, 01:41 AM

I love dogs, and own FIVE of them. I do, however, understand that all dogs are predators. Would I want to bring a dog to a horse show? No. Why?
As an exhibitor, I have personally had a dog bark in the arena and spook my horse. At the Asheville show THIS year, I was barked at EVERY MORNING by a loose dog in the same barn as me. Dogs are blessings to our lives, but they are big responsibilities and liabilites. Last year, a very "gentle" family dog bit a friend's little girl in the face at a horse show. It's difficult, while showing horses, to keep a constant watch on dogs. I was in the warm up arena when the loose horse with dog attatched came galloping through the aisle; it was terrifying. Thank God there were no small children on horseback between the fleeing horse and the warm up arena, though there were children on foot. I would love to see a movement to ask people to please leave their dogs at home. We have people taking care of the horses we've left at home, it's not much more trouble to ask a house sitter to feed/water a dog.

CarolU

06-27-2006, 01:54 AM

Very well said Lori, and I couldn't agree more.

Believe me, no one loves dogs more then I do. But there are places FOR dogs and there are places they should not be. At a horse show, I am like Lori, my focus is on my horse.

I would have no problem with dogs at horse shows IF all owners were good owners and all dogs were good dogs. The problem is that both are fantasies...so yes, ALL dogs and dog owners suffer because of some. That is the way life is. We all obey speed limits because some people drive irresponsibly, alcholol restrictions because some can't quit drinking, smoking bans because some have no consideration for others. There are very few (if any???) laws on any books anywhere that got put there for no reason.

I feel the same way about group trail rides and clinics.

Just my Honest (if no couth) opinion.

Jasfino

06-27-2006, 03:54 AM

So sad for the horse. I love dogs as well but believe they dont belong at horse shows. They are too distracting.

My brothers have raised pit bulls and as far as the comment about their jaws locking.. I am not sure locking would be the correct term for what they do.. but when they do bite into something they have incredible strength with their jaws.. more so than most breeds.. and its sometimes hard to disengage them.. I've seen it and heard of it happening too many times. Police have been known to use bars to disengage their jaws... my brothers neighbor who was a police officer in our town was telling him about it.

Serendipity

06-27-2006, 04:07 AM

Well I hope that if all of you get your wish,that they put on the show paper that comes in the Magazine that no dogs are allowed,that way I can avoid those places and not waste my money.

and what to do about all the kids that run up and down by the horses that are in the ring,my horses have been spooked by them but your saying thats okay kids on bikes or running screaming in the barns is okay but a dog barking is not.and in the main arena its okay for kids to run wild and toss things and hang over the rails,but its not okay for a dog to be in the same arena and being playful.I'm confused how is one better than the other?
I don't have kids,don't want them,thats why I have a dog.
I still say fine those that don't play by the rules,from what I hear PFHA always needs money anyways so that would be a plus.

ASB.Immortality

06-27-2006, 04:40 AM

I am another one that doesn't think a dog has a place at a horse show & we own right at 20 right. No matter how socialized a dog is, or what kind of training it has, it only takes a second for that instinct to kick in.

As for Pits... OH MY I love them!
In regards to those dogs... don't get me off on a rant. The only things wrong with those dogs are bad owners & breeders.

This video will break your heart:
http://www.pitbullproblem.tk/

Please note, it is extremely graphic. It is just a little bit of what some Pit owners do to their dogs.

Remy

06-27-2006, 05:04 AM

Hey (no couth) CarolU, :D I am absolutely in agreement with you. Dogs do not belong at a horse show. Unfortunately there may be many dogs that are well behaved, etc., but the bad and irresponsible owners have made it much more difficult for the rest of us.

As a dog exhibitor, breeder and judge for almost 30 years I know how irresponsible some owners can be. But those of us who love their dogs want them to be liked and appreciated by others. That means we do NOT take them to places where they are not welcome. And even if your dog is the most well behaved and obedient dog in the world, it should stay at home. If you take your well mannered dog, then some doofus will think he can take his surly bad tempered mutt and lo and behold - there's trouble.

I also do not believe in small children being allowed the upsupervised run of a stable. I have seen it many times and the parents will be the one to scream the loudest if the child gets accidentally hurt by a horse.

BTW I have four dogs, three of whom are rescue and I love them dearly but I don't take them to the stable because they are not used to horses. None of them would harm a horse but might chase one to "play" and that could cause an accident.

I am sorry if this displeases those with well mannered dogs who want to take them to a horse show, but as in dog shows, only dogs actually entered in the show are allowed at the show.

BTW I think a person called be called uncouth, but not a no couth person.

CarolU

06-27-2006, 11:52 AM

For what it's worth Nicole, I agree with you about children. I live in a state with more children then any other. Some are wonderful and well supervised, others run wild and the parents do nothing to control them. Before asthma, I sat in the smoking section JUST to be away from children. LOL Now there are no childless sections. :( I'd personally love childless resturants (of course you can eat where it's very expensive and you'll find very few children there), but I'm sure parents would howl.

Of course I've never seen a child attack a horse, or come out of the driveway barking and biting. That is what this thread is about, a dog attacking a horse.

Edurne

06-27-2006, 12:23 PM

It seems to me that most of us who are responsible dog owners and parents .... do not mind being restricted in taking our children or dogs to places where they are not invited, are not safe, or can cause harm. We also realise and take the responsibility for any actions our dogs or children do.

That doesn't mean to say that there are places where I would like my dogs where they have been prohibited. For example I had to quit my last permanent office job after two weeks when I realised that I missed my pooches lying on my feet while I worked on the computer.

couth

Pronunciation: (kOOth), [key] Facetious.

—adj.
showing or having good manners or sophistication;

obviously CarolU, neither your dogs nor your horses are sophisticated.

CarolU

06-27-2006, 12:45 PM

couth

Pronunciation: (kOOth), [key] Facetious.

—adj.
showing or having good manners or sophistication;

obviously CarolU, neither your dogs nor your horses are sophisticated.

Zar is going to take this very hard. :shock:

echo

06-27-2006, 01:05 PM

Yes, wild kids is a whole other subject. I certainly did not appreciate the little boy who ran to the entrance gate and jumped up on it as I entered the ring at Asheville last year, spooking my horse as I entered the class. As Carol mentioned, though, this thread is about dogs.
The dog that spooked a horse of mine had a very loud and shrill bark, and was at the top of the arena near the vendor booths. It was early in the day, and the arena was mostly quiet, then the sudden, loud bark. What do people do with their dogs while they are riding their horses? I shudder to think what would happen if a dog was left in an air-conditioned camper and the power unexpectedly went out, leaving the dog to bake. The best solution I've seen is a cage in a tack stall, where people can enjoy and watch the dog, keeping it out of harms way, taking it out on leash to walk around the facility, not in the arena.
Distractions, uncourteous people, and unforseen things are a part of horse showing. We try to desensitize the horses to many of these things before entering the ring. Many of the show horses are around dogs alot at home, but that does not desensitize them to a startling bark in a quiet show arena. Please keep in mind that some of the horses shown are very young and inexperienced. It is disheartening to spend big $$$ to get a horse to the show and in a class, then have your horse spook at something in the stands. I'm not making a motion for a dog ban. I said ASK people to leave dogs at home.
On a constructive note, how could we let folks enjoy their dogs at a horse show and keep them from barking in the arena, harassing people in the barns, or chasing horses or children? I believe that all dogs on show grounds should be on a leash or in a cage. Many arenas have signs posted, "no dogs in arena" and this is totally unenforced. If you must bring a dog into the arena, how about a humane and comfortable muzzle for the dog, which would allow the dog to pant and move its jaw, but not enough motion to bark? If you are one of the dog owners that enjoys your dog at the show, how about some constructive ideas about this instead of a "dog ban"? Would having people obtain a dog "permit" on the grounds, reading and signing an agreement with established guidelines about dogs, limit the problems?

Edurne

06-27-2006, 01:15 PM

For me it would be fine.... but I don't show or go to shows..... but I did take the dogs' cage when we went camping, also my dogs are not yappers. Those I might have to take some very rude steps with. or were you suggesting cages for the children :shock:

SandyMM

06-27-2006, 02:04 PM

shudder to think what would happen if a dog was left in an air-conditioned camper and the power unexpectedly went out, leaving the dog to bake.
Actually, that happened this past year - the dog was in a large camper with the a/c on and either teh a/c quit or the power went out to that unit... anyway, the dog very nearly died of heat stroke...
The best solution I've seen is a cage in a tack stall, where people can enjoy and watch the dog, keeping it out of harms way, taking it out on leash to walk around the facility, not in the arena.
Several times I have kept Jinx (the Egyptian Pharoah Hound) in my booth while the owners are busy showing. They always bring her crate and she is exceptionally well-behaved. At their stalls, she is either on a leash next to her owners or in her crate.

You will see a fair number of German Shepherds at the shows - many of them are trained protection dogs. There are a _lot_ of small 'hand-held' dogs. Very few dogs were not on a leash... there some JRTs (not Dianne's) that were running around loose. The dog that attacked Perla was supposedly on a leash far away from the ring in the camping area.

TrueStepPaso

06-27-2006, 02:29 PM

If you were walking one way down an aisle and I was leading or riding him, in the same aisle, I can almost guarentee you he would kick at your dog - with very deadly intent.

Now, I agree that dogs should NOT be in the active showing arena....but, if I was walking down the aisle of a barn with my dog by my side and your horse kicked at my dog with "deadly intent"....I have to be honest here.....I would let your horse have it so ******* hard, you'd be galloping into next week.
There is NO excuse for this. MY horse USED to do EXACTLY what your horses did in reaction to any dog......chase loose dogs out of the pasture, attack dogs in arena, and even try to go after them over her stall. As a matter of fact, I really took it seriously when my friend went into the pasture with her dog to get her horse, and my horse came at them in a dead gallop, she had to grab her dog while my horse circled them, rearing and snaking towards them until she whipped a full soda can at my horse. my horse could have KILLED them, and it would have MY fault regardless of any stupid sign.
I worked d@mn hard at getting her to tolerate dogs, and she still hates them, but I AM IN CHARGE around her, and she is to NOT KICK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. When you let a horse kick for any reason, they'll find another.
I find this disgusting.

BTW.....Unless provoked for good reason on their territory, Pitbulls are NOT human aggressive. They have been trained (in England) since 1066 (and it goes as far back as the Romans), to be in the bloodiest defense, and a handler would step in and release the dog without any issue. A dog would never be bred if it showed human aggression OR hesitation. This was because of the "baiting" sport......
Interestingly enough, baiting originated with butchers who kept dogs (called Bullenbeissers) to handle unruly bulls as they were herded to the market for slaughter. When a bull stepped out of line or exhibited uncontrollable behavior, the dogs would clamp down on its nose and simply hang on until the handler could regain control of the wayward animal.

Serendipity

06-27-2006, 03:28 PM

Thank you TrueStepPaso that was my point also a horse that is agressive is as bad as a agressive dog and does not belong at a show.

and just to help someone mentioned a dogs instinct well Jinx's is very highly bred from top bloodlines both of her parents were Luring Champinons the ony thing she'll lure to is a carrot or grape.

I would have no problem applying for a dog permit or paying an extra fee to bring her I keep a crate with me at all times.

Andalusia,AL show does not allow dogs in the arena period.

But really I'm aware that this is a thread about dogs but there is so much that goes on at a show that is not right are you going to start restricting every thing.If the show got rid of all the annoying(to someone) things like no dogs,no bikes,no motor anything,no small childern(unless riding), no adult beverages,or loud music it would no longer be a family event and that is what we want right,a family event?

This origanal dog,so I heard,acted up before this instents so there was no reason for it to be there Extra rules need to be in place,and enforces just the the "j" tail talk we've had before some one just needs to do something,

CarolU

06-27-2006, 03:51 PM

When you let a horse kick for any reason, they'll find another.

I really am not sure where you got this observation from..it has not been my experience. As I said, I've had a lot of horses that learned to kick at dogs after being heeled by heeling dogs. They're very common out here, in fact I just chased two strays out of my yard.

I've never seen kicking at dogs transfer to other speices, including cats, chickens, calves, sheep or people. I did have a horse kick a pig once, but then the pig was biting it. I don't blame them..and don't blame Diablo. He has no way of knowing if a dog under his feet is aggressive or not. After they've been bit, they learn to kick first. That's why I don't take him to DOG SHOWS.

TrueStepPaso

06-27-2006, 05:37 PM

cowboy ed

06-27-2006, 05:48 PM

i would probably kick a pig if it was bitin' me...........

TrueStepPaso

06-27-2006, 06:01 PM

I hope you won't kick me, if I end up biting you when we meet someday..... :shock: :lol:

cowboy ed

06-27-2006, 06:09 PM

:shock: :shock: oh lordy, dont let barb see this.... :lol:

Barbwire

06-27-2006, 06:16 PM

GASP!!! (thud)

TrueStepPaso

06-27-2006, 06:53 PM

**...(shouts)... Okay, reel her in boys......**

That was for your avatar statement! :razz:

Mellifluous

06-27-2006, 06:57 PM

Phoebe does not like dogs. She went on a trailride with some dogs that were non threatening and just ambled along with the group. She watched them closely but never tried to kick or paw - she would lower her head at them. I would pay extra attention to her reaction when they would get close. It was obvious that these dogs were used to horses and Phoebe picked up on that and did not perceive them as threatening enough to warrant a pawing or kicking. Now, if she comes across a dog that acts agressive toward her, or acts scared - she will attack. I don't try to correct her for this behavior. I would rather have her attack an agressive dog than flee from it.

She has never threatened any people, nor offered to kick anyone. I don't consider her to be a dangerous horse. If we are around dogs, I will let their owners know that she is not a huge fan of the canine species.

DebbieS

06-27-2006, 07:03 PM

the ony thing she'll lure to is a carrot or grape.

I've heard that grapes/raisins can be very dangerous for dogs to eat.

I take my golden with us on rides, if I know all the riders/horses that will be there and that they don't mind dogs...

My small dogs (corgi & cairn terrier) don't get to go unless it's just my horses and there will be no cows where we will be riding. They lose their minds when they see a herd of cows out on a ride. It's weird, we have cows very close to our property and they don't give them a second look :-?

My golden, though just has to be told 'no' one time. He's such a good dog but I would never take him around horses that don't like dogs or to an area where horses might spook just by seeing him. Some horses just don't like dogs...

TrueStepPaso

06-27-2006, 07:17 PM

Mel, I understand.....just be careful about it though, because you would never want that to get too far. Phoebe might start thinking its okay to do to any dog that say, gets too close and barks. Next thing you know, she attacks a dog that is on a leash, and there's a 5 yr old girl on the other end.......its too dangerous to me.
I just can't agree with letting an 1100 lb animal "attack" a 65 lb, 80 lb, 110 lb, whatever lb, animal.....a dog is NOT going to do much damage to a horse. And if it does ACTUALLY bite the horse, then, yes, a horse will automatically defend itself...quite well, too.
I have had plenty of dogs come after my horse while I am riding. I have NEVER, in the 19 yrs I've been riding, come across a dog that was not scared by a 1000+lb animal heading straight for them. One of the first things I was taught about riding on trails was, if a dog comes after you, simply turn your horse towards it and chase the dog. Done. Works every time.
A horse shouldn't flee if they are taught to spook in place, and you keep them faced towards their "fear".
My horses may have "issues" with certain things in their life, but they need to express themselves in a more tactful manner than kicking & attacking.

Cindy

06-27-2006, 07:34 PM

These are all interesting posts to read but none of the proposals on dog restraint or keeping dogs out of the arena would have stopped this situation. Only banning dogs AT ALL from the ENTIRE show grounds would have done any good. The dog in question was on a leash and was no where near the show arena. In fact, it was in the camping area and never anywhere near the arena. The dog broke loose to attack the horse. He first grabbed the horses nose or neck or somewhere in the front and then the horse took off. The dog was not attached to the horse when it was running as they ran right by us. The dog ran next to the horse until the horse was stoppped in the warm up area at which time the dog started biting at and attaching onto the horse again in the hind legs. Unfortunately, the horse was defending itself so fearcely that even the very experienced dog people who were thankfully in the warm up area at the time could not get to the dog for a while because of the horses flying feet.

As far as dogs spooking the horses in the arena, I too have had much more problems with kids than dogs. At just about every show I go to that is in an open arena with bleacher seating I have to yell at some kid that is running wild in the bleachers with the parents oblivious while I am in a class. My own son did a stupid thing at the Gainesville show and spooked the horse of a friend of mine in a class. He knew as soon as he had done it though that he had made a mistake. He has been around horse shows all his life and knows the rules but he is still a kid. I used to take our Pomeranian to the horse shows before I had a kid and she never, ever, not once spooked anyone's horse.

Now the issue of a horse that hates dogs. I don't care if they chase dogs out of their pasture or what they do on their own time but if I have a horse in my control and cannot control that horse enough to not let it kick a dog that is in no way molesting said horse, I have no business having that horse in a public place. Now if the dog happens to bite at said horse I would not even try to stop it from kicking the dog.

This was a very scary, sad and tragic thing to have happen to this horse. I have never seen anything like it. But bad things happen no matter how many rules and regulations there are in the world. That's just life.

06-27-2006, 07:45 PM

I have had it happen and yes, it is very scary, I didn't have the horse in hand, I was on the horse when they attacked. Just think what one dog did, now imagine what 3 could do.

Barbwire

06-27-2006, 07:48 PM

RR, is that bra made of swiss cheese?

CarolU

06-27-2006, 07:48 PM

Because a horse that kicks......kicks. Its simple, and a horse doesn't differentiate one annoying thing under his feet from something that just simply happened to be under his feet.
Like you said, After they've been bit, they learn to kick first.

Actually, it's not 'quite' that simple. But you correct your horses for defending themselves...I won't. I once had a German Sheppard go UNDER my horse to attack my Brittney I was riding with. My horse almost killed that GS...and I was sure glad she did. My Brittney was chewed up bad enough as it was. That horse NEVER kicked anything else. I really don't know where you come up with that conclusion. Any horse will kick when it's threatened. Your horses don't kick or a raise a leg at each other in the pasture? You've never had a mare raise a leg or kick at an aggressive gelding? Maybe you need more horses... ;-)

baileyholc

06-27-2006, 08:05 PM

In a place I use to live many many years ago, My neibor had a spits. This spits would chase anything and everything that passed our house. At the time I had a blind sharpee and a young german shepard. Some people down the road had horses and would ride them up and down the road in frunt of our house. The spits would chase the horses and the horses would try to kick the spits. One afternoon I stepped outside to grab my sheppard. The people on the horses yelled at me to let him go before the spits showed up. I asked why? They told me that my sheppard would walk along the side of them and literly bull doze the spits and other dogs that ran toward them barking and growling at them. I said in unbeleaving voice Really. The women said yes and asked me to watch while they rode up the street. And so I did. I watched my sheppard trot along the side of the horses then run and knock over the spits I laughed as it went rolling and got up and started yelping back to its own porch. They turned around at the top of the road and started back and I'll be if he didn't do it again. She stoped and told me that he would tag along with them up and down this street but would not turn the corner or go any further down the street then their barn. I'll tell you I was so proud of my dog that he go my X's steak dinner that night. It still makes me laugh to think about what I saw that day. I sure do miss that dog.

TrueStepPaso

06-27-2006, 08:51 PM

Yeah, thats it, I need more horses.....genius idea.

You may need to scroll back and re-read what I wrote about how I train my horses.....if a dog was seriously attacking my horse, I don't think I could stop my horse if I wanted to....read Cindy's post to further back this up. You have quite a few horses, so I'm sure you already know this.

Your horses don't kick or a raise a leg at each other in the pasture? You've never had a mare raise a leg or kick at an aggressive gelding?

Are you serious? I honestly don't have words for such ridiculous question......wow.
Is your next question if I sleep in the pasture and slap them every time they swat at a fly?

And, yes, it is that simple, if you let your horse kick at every "threatening" thing. Unless you live in dog h*ll, I'm pretty sure not every dog is trying to kill your horses....I don't know, call me crazy. But then again, neurotic people make neurotic horses......

CarolU

06-27-2006, 08:56 PM

but I AM IN CHARGE around her, and she is to NOT KICK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. When you let a horse kick for any reason, they'll find another.
I find this disgusting.

This is what I found when I scrolled back and read your posts.... :roll:

Mellifluous

06-27-2006, 08:58 PM

You should come ride with me sometime! I just look at this whole thing differently. Now remember, I do live in the south where at least one dog of some sort loose in the yard is a birthright. It never fails...when I ride dirt roads, nearly every property I ride past has a nasty dog that comes hauling butt across their yard and out to the shoulder of the road to "get" Phoebe. I turn her and go toward them. Most do not back off and if we turn back around they will slink up silently and try to hamstring Phoebe. I know things are turning sour with a dog when it gets quiet! Phoebe has full leeway to kick the ever lovin' crap out of that dog...much to the dismay of the owner who has been watching the whole thing from their front porch and not making an attempt to call their dog back into their yard.

Cindy

06-27-2006, 09:54 PM

Mel, I think the point is that that situation is a bit different than someone sitting there at a show with a well behaved dog and your horse mauls it simply because it is a dog. At least that is how I have interpreted this thread. I don't think that anyone has said that a horse should not be allowed to defend itself against a dog that is acting in a threatening manner. But then again, I have been wrong before. Once. And I am not saying when.

CarolU

06-27-2006, 10:23 PM

...and if you were going down an aisle and warned not to bring your dog there, that the horse kicks dogs...and you did anyway, and your dog got kicked. Then whose fault would it be?

Cindy

06-27-2006, 10:38 PM

If the dog was not provoking the horse in any way shape or form than it would be the horse owners fault for having their horse in a place other than their own farm when they cannot control it. What if the dog was lead down the aisle by a child who got kicked and killed because the owner could not control their horse? If one has a horse that has a problem which can be detrimental to the health of any other live species in this world and they take that horse to a public facility, it is said owners MORAL OBLIGATION to control said horse in the proper manner so as to lessen the chances that said horse will cause harm to any other living being. Having a horse that attacks dogs and not preventing it from doing so is no different than having a dog that attacks horses and not preventing it from doing so. It has nothing to do with rules or regulations, only with proper animal ownership responsibility.

Serendipity

06-27-2006, 10:54 PM

Cindy you are 2 funny,

Mel I had a dog that was a bit agressive on a path I ride I took a crop with me it only took once and the dog stays in the yard as I pass healther for it to I was afrad it was going to get hit by a car,though for some dogs....

Truesteppaso I have also found in most cases turning and going after the dog defuzes the situation also.

so in this situation the horse was not in the barn area it was in the camping area,the dog was in the camping area and not a exhibitors dog.So arn't very really talking about apples and bananas? a show familys dog I have not hear of causing such a mess ,yes once in a while a spook like Ed said.so what is the real reason you don't like dogs at show?If you don't have time or want to handle one thats your choice but if I have time and made arrangements why is it not my chose to bring one?There are enough stewarts and officals at a show that if there is an unrulely dog or some does not keep up after them mention it and I'm sure they will take care of it.
One thing with a dog is you don't have to know a name you could say something like "hey the owner of the Large Black Poodle(by the way I love this dog) did not clean up after it" or"that tan cocker spanel in the front row is causeing some horses to shy".

That is one thing i have noticed here,the moment somethinf happens its ban it or get rid of it or let me complain about it and always try to be right.I agree its a problem in some cases so how do we make it better for everyone,
I personally make time to take my dog it is a lot easyier to do so,I can not leave her at a Vet or Kennel because she panics,she does have seperation anxiety,I watched the over heated dog almost die at Nat'l last year that tended to stick in your mind plus I'm not a wealth peron that can go out and buy something with a living qaurters.I had a puppy sitter for a while till she went to college but it is hard to find someone to come let a dog out 4 times a day.Hotels don't let you just leave your dog there.So again for me it has been easyer for us to travel with her everywhere horse show,relitives,camping,boating,you name it.So because of this I have trained her to act approratly. She is a family member we enjoy taking her. its not right for you to say she can't go because you don't want to take one of your own thats your choice if my dog acted up and spooked your horse I would offer many appaulgies and keep her out of that situation.
and before someone mentions the monet thing again for the claases I send the same as anyone at the some per class and if a kids spooks my horse i've never recieved a sorry for that

ErinC

06-27-2006, 10:55 PM

First off, Cassie Sorry your post got taken and drug through the mud!

This BB has turned more into a whipping post then a fun place to be!

its OK to state YOUR opinion and then MOVE ON, but come one WHY in Gods name are we debating so DEEP that we are trying to change someone else’s opinion?

If we all had the same one life would be robotic....

Get over it move on...

Dogs will be Dogs, Horses will be horses, and the owners will never grow up and take reponsibility! And get this,,,, LIFE WILL GO ON!!!!!

CarolU

06-27-2006, 11:03 PM

Well that is an interesting opinion...although I certainly don't consider a horse that kicks at dogs under their feet to be "aggressive." But I have seen many aggressive horses at shows hitting the bars, kicking at other horses, bitting, horses with stud chains. Even on trail rides, horses that kick are still allowed but must have a red ribbon in the tail.

I have to admit I've never seen a rule about it...not that I'd mind. I remember at our Expo running around wtih Zar like a crazy woman, away from stallions of every breed and size that were dragging their owners around, through crowds, kids, cameramen, etc. It seemed to be expected of them and accepted. Certainly nobody got in trouble and no one considered it their obligation to control their stallion...indeed, I had to move my mare out of 'their' way.

CarolU

06-27-2006, 11:05 PM

Edurne

06-27-2006, 11:21 PM

........................the end............................

:cooldude

motorgypsy

06-28-2006, 12:45 AM

Not the end yet!!! I get to talk too!!!

First of all regarding dogs in the arena - the sign at WNC arena says NO DOGS IN THE ARENA. That's pretty clear. You follow the rules or you don't. If you don't and your dog causes trouble - you are at fault. You're at fault anyway if your dog causes trouble but taking a dog into a facility that is clearly marked NOT DOGS ALLOWED is blatantly ignoring the rules. That's NOT a good thing to do. What does it teach kids? That adults can disobey the rules. HMMMM

Honestly we love dogs but would much prefer that they not be in the arena and that they be required to be on a leash while on the property of the facility. We would also prefer a ruling that keeps kids at least three rows back from the front but I doubt that will happen. Quite frankly (this is said tongue in cheek for Cindy et al's benefit) if my horse is under my control it shouldn't spook at anything - right?? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: let alone at a little kid or a little dog. But of course we know this is silly. We are never totally in control of a dog, a cat or a horse let alone our own kids. And if you think your horse will never kick - you are not being realisitic.

Now our dog experiences - bitten by a friend's pet Cocker Spaniel, nearly dragged from a motorcycle by a large pointer type dog, dragged off my bicycle and my son, also dragged off his bicycle at the same time by a German Shepherd and a small terrier working together, attacked by a Border Collie many times on horseback, sister attacked by a German Shepherd while running, colleague had his face ripped apart by a rottweiler, had a schnauzer chase us into our apartment and another attack us repeatedly when we went for walks. And people worry about sharks and snakes and bears. We've never been attacked by any of those.

Now when we ride with just a couple of horses where there may be dogs we both carry "softaire" pistols - mine is an automatic, Kyle's is a semiautomatic. They fire little plastic bb's very rapidly and they sting. The reason we went to this was because the border collie who chased us on horseback was hit with rocks, squirted with water and ammonia with no effects but when I threw a large handful of horse feed pellets at him he tucked his tail and ran for home. We hope we'll never have to tell you if they work or not????

Now what do with the dog if you want to bring it. Crate it and keep it in the motel. Go back frequently to walk it and play with it. If it's lonesome get it a cat (I'm not being facetious - our beagle would only shut up if he had his cat buddy with him). The alternative is to keep it in a horse trailer that has open windows with screens and is parked in the shade. We used to do that with our cats. It never got too hot in there and they had food, water, litter and their bed. They were quite happy. Our 12 inch beagle was kept in the back of our pickup with a cover on it with open windows with screens and we parked it under a tree and checked on the dog regularly. She was littler trained - we used a large cement mixing plastic tub with sod in it as her litter pan - so she was great to travel with. So there are ways to bring your dog without having it in the arena. Or keep the dog in your tack stall. There are lots of ways.

But again if you think your dog will never do anything that will cause problems you are being unrealisitc. Some people are deathly allergic to dogs and could have an asthma attack just because the dog is there. This is of course an extreme example but none the less true.

One more word of warning - if your dog is being attacked be sure you know how to turn away an aggressive dog (watch dog whisperer) because if you pick up the dog, frequently the aggressive dog will attack the dog in your arms and bite you in the face.

ErinC

06-28-2006, 12:52 AM

Now our dog experiences - bitten by a friend's pet Cocker Spaniel, nearly dragged from a motorcycle by a large pointer type dog, dragged off my bicycle and my son, also dragged off his bicycle at the same time by a German Shepherd and a small terrier working together, attacked by a Border Collie many times on horseback, sister attacked by a German Shepherd while running, colleague had his face ripped apart by a rottweiler, had a schnauzer chase us into our apartment and another attack us repeatedly when we went for walks. And people worry about sharks and snakes and bears. We've never been attacked by any of those.

Ok you can talk , you justed pointed out that ALL dogs are just that a Dog!!!! any and ALL breeds have the good the bad and the ugly.
and most of the time it is the owners fault the dog is bad!

Terri

06-28-2006, 01:24 AM

This is a silly argument. If all dog owners were as conscientious as Abby and Nicole we wouldn't be having the argument at all. But not all dogs or horses are as well trained and obedient as Nicole's or Abby's or Carols. And not all dog owners are as sensible as me (I leave my poorly trained mutt at home). It is the inconsiderate dog owners who bring their spoiled dogs to events (not only horse shows, but lots of events) that ruin it for everyone. These animals raise liability concerns, forcing event organizers to ban them in order to cover themselves. And yes, the same can be said of unruly children, but they are a little more difficult to ban.
Personally I tend to stick to the easier breeds, some would say whimpier, such as golden retrievers. Usually my dog is kept in his fence. Occasionally he will get out when some child leaves a door open. This happened one morning when I rode into the yard. Solomom ran to great me in his usual golden retriever exuberance. Rio, not being the smartest horse on the planet, and not having Mico to protect him, mistook that friendly greeting for aggression and pivoted and let loose with both hinds. Fortunately Rio is as poor an aim as he is a thinker and missed the dog completely. Solomon catches on quick for a golden and immediately dropped to a submissive posture, and walked slowly up to the horse. Since then the horses have allowed him in their paddock and he knows how to act around them. They do get annoyed when he swims in their water tank, but that is another story.
The point is, even the friendliest dogs can accidently get loose, and cause a problem and the show organizers don't want the liability and don't want anyone, dog,horse or human to get hurt.

DebbieS

06-28-2006, 01:44 AM

Solomom ran to great me in his usual golden retriever exuberance.

Doncha just love 'em? :D

Barbwire

06-28-2006, 02:12 AM

Rubber baby buggy bumpers!

Terri

06-28-2006, 02:15 AM

Yes, I do love them. But I don't assume everybody does, which is why I don't bring him lots of places.
Just to show it is not always the dog that misbehaves, I got one more story. I took Solomon to one of my son's baseball games. We had a great time. A bunch of kids played with him, ran him around, threw balls for him, etc. He was wonderful. They brought him back to me and he layed down. A guy I didn't know walked up to me and I thought he was going to pet Solly, but he just crouched down, stared the dog in the eyes and growled, loudly. I was so shocked I didnt' know what to do. Neither did Solly, but after a heart beat or two, Solly's lip curled, his hair stood up on his back and he growled. I have never seen him do that. I pulled him away and asked the man to step away from my dog. The guy just laughed. Now I ask you, if my leashed, playful dog had ripped the face off the guy who provoked him, who would be liable? Me I bet. Another reason I dont' like to take my dog places. To save him from idiot people.

Pasogirlz

06-28-2006, 02:20 AM

Ya'll are gonna make me lock this aren't ya? ;-)

http://www.btinternet.com/~tonyrichardson/horse.gif

motorgypsy

06-28-2006, 02:44 AM

Pasogirlz

06-28-2006, 02:47 AM

http://runningforums.com/uploads/smilies2/deadhorse.gif

CarolU

06-28-2006, 02:51 AM

NAAAAAAA. We all love dogs! We just don't all want them at shows. I bet a lot of people who bring dogs to shows have no idea how many people (who are dog lovers) don't want them there so this is a very useful thread.

Have to agree. When I was a smoker I never had any idea how aggregating and nasty it was for the non-smokers around me. I thought they were all rediculous with their complaints. Then I quit. Then I got asthma. I can't be near ANY kind of smoke now. It certainly makes me think twice now how thoughtless I was before. THIS IS NOT saying that "responsible dog owners" are thoughtless...but for sure most of the 'others; are.

To me it is also a matter of numbers. If one or two, or a few people brought dogs and controlled them, we wouldn't even have this thread. But when several hundred people come to an event and if even a fourth of them bring dogs...that is a lot of dogs.

Barbwire

06-28-2006, 02:51 AM

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/misc11.jpg

motorgypsy

06-28-2006, 02:53 AM

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

qltrlori

06-28-2006, 03:08 AM

UNCLE!

baileyholc

06-28-2006, 03:22 AM

http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/4.gif

Serendipity

06-28-2006, 03:24 AM

This is a case to agree to disagree....

(Jinx is Hypperalergenic no asmam attacks)
last I'll post here

TrueStepPaso

06-28-2006, 01:15 PM

I worked d@mn hard at getting her to tolerate dogs, and she still hates them, but I AM IN CHARGE around her, and she is to NOT KICK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. When you let a horse kick for any reason, they'll find another.

You forgot to add in the sentence BEFORE the quote you TRIED to throw in my face...the fact that I am ONLY TALKING ABOUT DOGS.
Surprise, surprise...CarolU saw only what she wanted to in someone's post. Nice try though.

The only thing I don't find "fun" about this board is you and your argumentative negativity.
Whats your next lecture....Natural Horsemanship (again), as if we all haven't been working with that for years now.

If one has a horse that has a problem which can be detrimental to the health of any other live species in this world and they take that horse to a public facility, it is said owners MORAL OBLIGATION to control said horse in the proper manner so as to lessen the chances that said horse will cause harm to any other living being.

Here is another point, identical to mine (that I was trying to make) that I'm sure you will only see in a limited way, or try to argue it even more.