Pleasure Divsion Changes???

[CarolU]

Statistics show that the largest amount of disagreement between judges, and disatisfaction of judging, is with the Pleasure Division. What can PFHA do to change this?

Some of us feel that opening up the Pleasure Division to be more like other breed's and open shows Pleasure classes, we can also encourage more regular owners to show in PFHA shows.

This poll is to determine how YOU feel about it.

Women's Pleasure is open only to women.

Men's Pleasure is open only to men.

Trail Pleasure is judged on the SMOOTHEST "trail-gaited" horse.

If any of these grow large enough, they can split in A/O and Open classes.

[Carol Nelson]

Aw...Carol,...I don't think they need any more classes than they have. We don't want our shows going into the wee hours of the morning. But our judges need to have an awareness of what is a Pleasure horse...not a Performance horse...but a true Pleasure horse. And they do have their place...I think that is what the Paso Fino was originally bred for ...a pleasant ride across the plantations of Colombia and Puerto Rico.
I guess that is why Larry Whitesell has my vote so much...he will kick a Performance horse out of a Pleasure class. That is what we need in the Pleasure classes....a judge that will stand up and say
"That horse doesn't belong here!"

[Blameitonbrio]

What about both of the first choices? Tighten the standards AND add more venues for folks to show?

Would it actually make a difference to tighten the standards by which they are judged? Aren't there standards there now, and if so, are they honored? I am asking because I am new enough that I really don't know (although I have my suspicions! :shock: ).

[Candice Burger]

Sorry CarolU, but I will fight you head to head on this one. It'll even get me back to being active again to stop it.

History of class evolution:

Schooling classes developed for two reasons-one to give young horses a chance to learn without pressures of performing like a finished horse and two, to give new horses/riders a chance to be competitive. Look at our poor schooling horses today. Have we acheived our goal?

Horse gender championship classes were developed for two reasons-one to give mares a chance to express themselves without having to be compared to their masculine counterparts (personally the mares were whipping the stallions in many championships) and two, to give riders of mares a chance to be competitive.

Geldings classes were developed for one reason to give geldings a competitive chance to place. This is one of the few that made sense.

Amateur/owner classes were developed for one reason only-This is what caused me to quit as an active member of PFHA. I was tired of attending meeting after meeting and heard the WHINING of sore losers complaining that they couldn't win against professional trainers and riders. There was some legitimacy to the reasoning, but the overall result was because PFHA is full of sore losers and crybabies. So,

Country Pleasure classes were developed for one reason only-because now the A/O classes are filled with professionally trained horses ridden by coached riders-or so claimed by the above crybabies. The claim of no more pleasure horses in pleasure classes has SOME hold, but as we all know that is not the ONLY problem with our pleasure classes.

Somewhere along the way, there was some sane people that created Junior and Subjunior classes. KUDOS. I'd rather watch the kids any day. They know how to compete without the baggage.

And now, you want to separate out women and men? For what, so that everyone that shows up to a show doesn't have to be prepared, display good horsemanship and good showmanship to get a 1.50 ribbon?

This reminds me of the class proposal to have fino/corto classes for horses that can't largo.

Look, not every horse that is a paso fino is born competitive for breed shows. Not every person that pays an entry fee will get a ribbon. It's called competition.

What's the smoothest trail horse? A horse that can gait but can't sidepass or back or go through obstacles? If gait is weighted against the horse's ability to be a trail horse, isn't that just a pleasure class with debaucles to keep us entertained?

Get back to basics. Quit hiring judges that will not judge the MINIMUM gait requirements first before testing the horses.

Our shows have been ruined by this mindset of more and more and more classes. Our performance/pleasure classes are full not because all the horses qualify for the class but because the judging refuses to draw the line about what type of horse does. So we see the SAME horses over and over and over again with different tack, different dress, the same riders again and again. And I'm expected to sit and watch the same horse with the wife and the same horse with the husband? NO WAY.

PS. I could've just said "NO", but that would have been less entertaining.

[CRIADERO J.R.]

The last thing we need is more classes! You have more than 50 classes per show and it takes up to 16 hours to complete a show, that is just to long of a day for most of us. One of the reasons I send my horses to THE NATIONALS and I stay home is it takes me one week to see the six or seven clases that interest me. To many classes to long a day these are some of the reasons no one goes to the shows anymore.

[pasolovr]

I guess that is why Larry Whitesell has my vote so much...he will kick a Performance horse out of a Pleasure class. That is what we need in the Pleasure classes....a judge that will stand up and say
"That horse doesn't belong here!"

Carol, I couldn't have said it better myself!!!! You're absolutely right on!!!

[stella]

Hey, I was at the Dallas '90 Judges/Stewards clinic when it was "deemed" by the Committee Chairs that pleasure was no longer to be about "real" pleasure horses, but "show" pleasure...."after all, this is a horse SHOW:...still rings hauntingly in my ears....and I thought, OH NO, this breed is going to make the EXACT same mistake as previous gaited breeds, show only "hothouse" horses, which eventually gets to not-so-natural horses, and really hurt those breeds.

I think the division has grown too large to think about changing it completely now; it is, after all, STILL the most successful division as far as participation is concerned.....but call it, SHOW pleasure. There still needs to be a place for horses bred for fino that arent that, and not quite high action or quick enough for performance, but still 'showy"...and perhaps still a bit to hot/quick to be considered trail pleasure.
Being its already too many classes for ONE show, I think the best thing to do is, AS I"VE SAID BEFORE, have another show circuit, that's strictly based on other recreational, pleasure activities. The Western Pleasure, Versatility, Trail, etc can be moved there, too....that would lessen the show schedule for the fino type shows, so that there's more time for judges to work those classes off, etc. Create a "win-win" situation for everyone; the fact that our breed has SUCH a selection of types should be a BLESSING to promote, something for everyone, under the umbrella of NATURAL gait...and signature movement of pasofino style...light footfall, staccato movement under the body, even action front and back...

There can be Bellas Formas for pleasure horses, too, the gait be strictly corto. That way, the STYLE of gait wont take precedence over PRECISION and strength(consistency)of gait, or lessen the importance of conformation.
Plus, I think the finos are getting more "pony" in their proportions, not just size, to shorten stride and get that "trappiness" such proportions bring to movement...."looks" more "fino." Whereas, people breeding for longer threads, to have extension in largo, will look for longer legs and necks proportionately to the body.
I think having different sets of conformation classes is good, because I feel what's happened in other breeds is that, the conformation horse is supposed to "typify" an entire breed, but in the "versatile" breeds, the conformation eventually needs to becomes somewhat specialized to win in a particular division, as the competition gets tougher....thus the conformation horse remains, "the jack of all trades".....but, eventually the MASTER of none, at least not well enough to win at the same level it can in conformation, when under saddle.