how many PFs for sale online

[LynnG]

I just did a check for "research" the main different all-breed classified sites I know of online. Here is the findings for Paso Finos on number listed for sale.

dreamhorse.com - 249
webpony.com/equine.com - 216
agdirect.com - 112
horsetopia.com - 12 pages of listings (well over 100+??)

anyone else have any all-breed sites to list that are popular with paso finos. That is quite a number to be listed at dreamhorse...
why is dreamhorse so popular? does it get more results then the others?? or is it in the name???

[appyday]

I always use Dreamhorse for listing/selling and buying...I have bought from WA (in Feb) from Dreamhorse and sold many...

[SandyMM]

I always use Dreamhorse for listing/selling and buying...I have bought from WA (in Feb) from Dreamhorse and sold many...

Pasos?

[Privatetreaty]

WOW :eek:

Those are outrageous figures !!!
And to think that so many people are getting into embryo transfers.
The Paso breeding business ain't what it used to be.

Demand is certainly not keeping up with the supply.
And the prices are tumbling.
I've seen horses that don't even reach their sire's stud fee.

Great research and observation Linda.

[appyday]

I always use Dreamhorse for listing/selling and buying...I have bought from WA (in Feb) from Dreamhorse and sold many...

Pasos?

I bought Star my black mare off of Dreamhorse...I saw one picture and I sent someone to go get her...I never rode her or saw her myself..just sent someone to get her for me...

I got Vence off of the old board we posted on ...I got a PM about him when I was horse hunting...I sent a hauler too never saw him first.

I have not sold a paso yet but when I go to list Jr I will use Dreamhorse...I have probably bought 10K worth of horses on Dreamhorse..and I NEVER go see them first...just get them delivered..I got a paint mare from WA and QH gelding from PA Star from PA

[Linda Y]

Dreamhorse is the one I use most, too. Not sure why. Easier to navigate? Cheaper? I don't know.
I listed the horses on all but Horsetopia, and they all sold from Dreamhorse.
The only online site I have bought from is Stampede Auction. I bought most of the horses I did buy sight unseen, but from individuals and not sites.
Talking about falling prices, did anyone see the ad in the PFHW for the $500 Pasos??

[LynnG]

some breakdowns on dreamhorse since it appears to be the top listing site

MARES - 65, (4 sold, 4 pending)
FILLIES - 29 (2 sold, 2 pending)
COLTS - 16
GELDINGS - 115 ( 98 for sale, 13 sold)
STALLIONS - 14 (11 for sale)

STATES - PF Listings (didn't check all)
FL - 29
CA - 13
TN -13
CO - 8
TX - 8
NC - 5
GA - 4
MT - 1

[Serendipity]

This information should really have every one checking their breeding schedule.I looked on these site and there are horses that have been list for year and no movment some longer.
Why are these horse so hard to sell,do we ask to much for stud fees that we can't get them back? I know very few QH stud fees are as high as ours same with a lot of dressage horses. You also have the problem of some breeded breeding a huge amount of mares then giving away(not literal or at least I don't think)what they don't want.

great advise Lynn I was thinking on breeding 2 mares but I think I'll wait.

[LynnG]

Linda, I don't think prices are falling that much. A good trained well-mannered smooth gaited Paso fino will still find a buyer at a decent price.

There has always been cheap PFs and expensive ones. I see enough unregistered PFs and crosses listed that may be considered cheap by some, but then you are buying a grade horse basicly...gaited or not.

To me you usually get what you pay for. There are many untrained horses listed, some cheap, some not.

One issue I see in our breed is the advertised term "show" or "Champion" bloodlines". I bet at least 90% of registered Paso Finos do have "those" in its pedigree somewhere. The seller feels it has more value due to those terms. And a show horse is one with a decent sucessful show record at multiple shows (those with some competition in the classes). I've seen that used, but then the seller can't tell you what classes the horse competed in, where or what it placed at. To me unless its direct parent won alot at National level..then that could be significant for someone wanting to show. Many green horses listed that needs time given to it with a new owner.

[LynnG]

Nicole, but some get snatched up real fast after being listed! It does happen. (I keep an eye on a few sites just to keep track of the online marketplace...and what is available).

I think some are just overpriced for what they are (in my opinion), or have too many problems...and just don't sell. You have lots of poor quality horse photos too, and not the best info provided to want you to inquire further. If you have a riding horse, show it under saddle. if you have a pasture ornament..yes,,, there they are...photographed grazing in the pasture. And many more would sell, if they would just include a photo period with their ad..vs the text only ads.

[Cindy]

The problem with horses selling is the sellers, not the market. I was looking for a filly over the past year and asked 4 or 5 different people to send me videos. Never received any. And these were high priced show fillies. Finally sold the client my own filly as she is as good or better than any of the ones I requested videos on. Also, many of the horses have some kind of problem either not good quality, bad gait or badly trained. All of the well trained, good quality horses that my clients have had for sale have sold quickly. Usually to the first person who tries them out. Three of my clients had inquiries on horses that were not for sale at the Asheville show alone. There is nothing wrong with the market.

[ErinC]

I use
http://equinesite.com/

and


http://equine.com/

I have boughgt and sold from both.

I have had a gelding listed for some time now, and no bites, I have cut the price, and am still willing to go lower to move before winter hits!

:roll:

[LynnG]

Cindy is right on alot of the problem is with the sellers. I had two people I have some connection with call and want me to help sell their horse they had bought from someone else. I ask for photos and video, as of months later nothing, even ask a reminder.... too busy. So guess what the horse isn't sold.

I inquired about 2 horses recently online by email, one got back to me within a few days and was leaving to go out of town, and then would get back with some requested photo views; and the other which is fairly close, hasn't responded at all...that horse has been listed for awhile on more then one site, with one price drop. They need to respond to inquiries. Some times it may be the questions I ask initially, they don't want to answer or just don't know the answers........ :roll: that's a big negative if they can't answer.

oh well......

[Privatetreaty]

In late 2004, I was offered $15,000 for a mare I had recently purchased. I didn't want to sell her, thinking I was going to loose some more weight, have her fully trained and get back into riding.

It's been more than a year and where am I?
The mare is fully trained by a "gentle" professional Paso trainer.
I didn't loose any weight.
And, I hardly see my horses.

I noticed there were a lot of horses for sale, so I put her up for sale at $12,000. No takers.
I had Ernie Sanz from Hacienda Guadalupe appraise the mare.
Ernie said about $9,000.

I put her up for sale locally for $6,500 with a breeding to Vaticinio, his proven Capuchino son.
I got a few "brokers" that wanted to buy her, but she's not for sale to anyone for resale. I want to find her a good home.

Personally, I think it's a combination of two things:
depressed Paso market and my mare's sire & dam are Pinto.

With all due respect Lynn, I disagree with you.
The prices have dropped.
And I'm sure there are more people in my shoes.

[Edurne]

do sellers always want to sell? or are they testing the market?

[LynnG]

You can look at the overall market in the US...but pinpoint also what IS selling.

I would imagine a certain region's market can be very different from another region, due to oversupply in one area over another. Certain bloodlines are overbred ... if they don't pan out to what people's expectations are, they probably will turn out up on the market.

I do see alot of pinto PFs for sale on the Internet ad sites. I think enough breeders bred for pinto thinking they could sell the resulting horse easily, due to its pinto color, thus many for sale now ... there are plenty to choose from online.

Maybe before some horses were just over-inflated, and then hitting on the right buyer with lots of money who could afford the higher dollar. Many business aspects were down since 9-11; but some are doing well...like the Asheville Show (people came from all over to show off their horses). People may just be choosing more carefully where they spend their excess "hobby" money. ... a vacation home, a boat, a harley davidson or a horse!

[Privatetreaty]

Maybe that's my problem.
The mare is chestnut, not pinto.

[LynnG]

so privatetreaty...where have you listed her for sale online? and whatever happened to the person that wanted her before and made the offer.

You know what they say in real estate.....location, location, location.

I think many owners/breeders have horses they wouldn't sell for any price, but then there are those they would like to keep, but would sell with the right price (breeders most likely) and to the right home that will value the horse with the best of everything and in turn promotion for you the breeder if the horse is seen by many and "valued".

[Serendipity]

On the pinto aspect there are some really good pintos out there but I'm afrad a lot more people have bred the heck out of some pintos that were better gelding,so some of that market is flooded with bad confo pintos that drives prices down for them.(just my opinion,I was looking for a pinto to buy and ran into this alot,excellent pinto wher out of my price range)

but in general area has a lot to do with it,here you pick up the paper and horses for sale are "good broke" $600 does not matter what breed.

Some people are also becoming bloodline shy they ask the bloodline and you tell them and get a "oh,no thanks"(ran into that a lot with Jibaro)

I am keeping my hope high though and I finally have gotten 4 mares and a stallion that I really like and that have good confo,goodlines and good heads.So when I start breeding one or two a year they will be the quilty that will sell well,

[SandyMM]

Gait-gait-gait..... Paso Fino gait, not trocha... hard to find when many Paso owners can't tell the difference...

Disposition - can't see it in an ad

Size (how many of you have trusted an unknown seller only to find they were 'as surprised as you are' (uh-huh...) that the horse was a full hand shorter than advertised....)

There are people I would buy from sight unseen, but very few...

[Serendipity]

good point Sandy,

Its getting harder and harded to fine well gaited Pasos,and darn near immpossible to find a buyer for small pasos under 14HH no matter how smooth

[Privatetreaty]

When I brought the horses to Miami, I had someone (well known to all of us) recommend his former trainer. He was the one that offer $15,000 for the mare within a month of training her. I didn't like his slap happy "training" style, so, I fired his a$$.

It took me a few months, but I finally found my current trainer.

Locally, I've made contact with a lot of Paso people I know.
On-line, I admit I've been lacking. I've placed her in only one site and I need to go in an update that ad.

Ernie said that for a pinto blooded horse, she has a great pedigree.

Thanks for the ideas Linda.

[ErinC]

darn near immpossible to find a buyer for small pasos under 14HH no matter how smooth


so so true, I know there are pocket rocket loves out there, but none want mine :roll:

[JennLM]

It's how I bought Trinket. They were very honest for all except her color. :mad:

Though the other horses we DID see in person ended up being buttnuggets once they were here. Except her, sight unseen.

I thought our search would be sooner but our house has not sold and so far no one wants to trade for our ASB's, so........ we just wait.

I have ours advertised on every site but no luck either with as many people in Vegas who show and do dressage.

If Trinket doesn't get big enough we will have to sell her so I REALLY hope she gets big enough. I did not take that part into consideration beforehand since I was such a Paso Newbie.

My Andalusian got sold on Dreamhorse though. Some of them are harder to narrow searches. One you can only look for one breeed at a time and that SUCKS.

A fewe the horses are higher priced. I noticed on Dreamhorse and agdirect the horse prices seem lower to me.

[reuben T]

I know the market is slow for QH's, an aquaintance nearby raises them and he told me it's getting hard to sell them for a decent price. Another friend nearby raises arabs and she's selling really good young horses for very low just to quit feeding them, can't find a good market. I got a 3yo half arab from her last year for a couple truckloads of barn lumber. i wanna train him and sell him and buy a paso, i think if he's well trained he'll sell ok, but that keeps getting delayed due to other work, i think i'm gettin real close to making time to do it though. (in the mean time he's getting broader, looking a little more like he could carry me without strain, he was kind of slim as a 3yo.

[Privatetreaty]

QH seems to be the horse of choice for Paso people to use in their embryo transfers, here in Miami.

[CarolU]

Probably because they have nice big hips and can carry and deliver foals easily.

They use them out here as well.

[Monty]

Some people may back off due to the hauling expense too - with gas so high -
And some are selling horses because everything is costing so much now - plus , what about all the places with drought ?
I got Monty for $550 because the guy had NO idea what he had and was scared of him - Monty is 21 and only one person was ever bucked off ( I have talked to his breeder,trainer and every owner ) - it was the guy I bought him from ! AND we figured out why - :lol:
Oh, and I have known several people that sold the horse and never took it off a site - ;-)
Question - were all the Pasos Paso Finos or were Peruvians lumped in there ?

[Serendipity]

embryo transfers seem wrong to me it the a limit to how many can be done or can you liteally have 12 babies born the same year with the excact same parents?I can see where it would be useful in a few cases but it could also get out of had really fast

[Monty]

If I remember correctly - qtrs are limited to 2 a year - otherwise they can't be registered .
Other breeds may have the same deal :?:

[CarolU]

Yes, ETs are limited to two a year...or a mare can have one by ET and one on her own.

I do think that due to the cost of ET, you won't see it done on a large scale and then only your higer-end horses, or if someone has a special reason for doing it with another horse (older mare).

[Minouri]

When I was horse shopping I used Equinesite.com and Equine.com. I found Scooter on Equine.com.

Scooter WAS smaller than advertised.....she said 14.1.....but he's really 13.3. But the rest of what she said was true.

When the dust settles from buidling our paddocks and the craziness of the wedding passes (not the mention the bills from)....I will be horse shopping again.

If the horse were just for me.....I would snap up one of the many Pasos I see advertised. I cannot say enough good about the breed. And my viewpoint is as a family/trail horse owner.

I will say, however, that Scooter intimidates my horse friends and Tony. I wish I completely understood why. (Trainers aside - he hates most trainers) He has never been dangerous. He may be fast.....he may test you......but he's not tossing you to the ground or trying to knock you off. On his worst days....with a nervous rider who is clinging with both legs and probably yanking on his reins....he dances around like a tapdancer or runs for the gait. He's not a biter or a kicker. He doesnt' take off with me on the trails. A horse can run by us when we're alone on the trails and he'll dance and settle down but he won't bolt after him.

My friends ride horses twice his size who dump them in the woods when startled....and yet they won't ride Scooter on the trails because they say he's scary. He's never dumped me anywhere.

IMHO it has to do with the energy you feel from the Paso when you're in the saddle. Scooter seems so alive compared to other horses I've ridden. He's so sensitive to my responses to him. People consider that "high strung" or "crazy" because when he's having fun he'll toss his head and snort. They don't understand that if I simply sit deep and sigh he relaxes right under me. It's that connection I haven't found in other horses.

I would love for Tony to fall in love with the breed as I have....but he's got his mind set on a bigger/calmer horse.

I wonder if the slowing market reflects the slowing house market. Prices there are dropping also. At least in this region they are.

[Cindy]

There is no limit on embryo transfers other than the limitations of the mares. But if you were to get 12 embryos in one year you would be supervet. Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The most that can realistically be pulled from one mare over one year is about 5 or 6 and this would be very high. In most situations you are lucky to get 1 or 2 a year.

[PASOFAN]

www.horsesmidwest.com

Has several Paso's for sale, good prices I'd say, think there out of SD/ND most of them anyway...

I like that site, genreal ads are great for locals!

[ErinC]

ruth:
I would love for Tony to fall in love with the breed as I have....but he's got his mind set on a bigger/calmer horse.



you will have to bring him to meet Sues Gelding ( Jose R wife )
she has a true 15+ H Calm NICE Paso!
they ARE out there!

[Minouri]

Erin,

I really do have to get him on more Pasos. The nice thing is that there is no rush. When we're settled and can add another horse I can do some serious shopping around till I find exactly what I (whoopsie....WE) want....lol

My neighbor isn't helping me persuade Tony. He just returned his beautiful black horse because it kept bucking him off. Now he has an older (11 year old) TWH that is looking like it might be too much for him also. The problem is that he doesn't want to work with the horse on a regular basis. He wants to go from zero riding for a week to cantering through the fields with no inbetween. I think his last horse was great.....just needed some excercise a couple days a week to settle him down. He was only 7. This new horse does a lot of pacing back and forth in his paddock area....he's overweight ....and my neighbor says very calm. I bet he won't be so calm when he trims down a bit. He already looks like he has double the energy of my boys......of course he is still settling in.

If he keeps getting tossed it's going to be pretty tough to get Tony on new horses. :cry Wish I could just smack my neighbor in the back of the head and tell him to stop hitting the dirt....lol

[LynnG]

checked again.... hahaha

today it shows 239 total for dreamhorse... Maybe some of the sold horses were removed by their sellers. hmmm. But if you check must be registered box...it comes up with 172 Paso Finos listed.

so alot of unregistered Paso Finos, papers lost, Pf crosses, and then always a few gaited breeds that cross-reference to Paso fino as secondary breed I wonder. I've seen Quarter Horse listed on some Paso Finos as secondary breed. I would think another gaited breed would serve the purpose better for exposure.

[Pasogirlz]

ruth:
I would love for Tony to fall in love with the breed as I have....but he's got his mind set on a bigger/calmer horse.



you will have to bring him to meet Sues Gelding ( Jose R wife )
she has a true 15+ H Calm NICE Paso!
they ARE out there!

Dont forget Amante. He is a gentle giant too. 8-)

[SandyMM]

Scooter WAS smaller than advertised.....she said 14.1.....but he's really 13.3.
Just a suggestion for shoppers.... I always take a pic of the horse being measured by one of the 'bubble' measuring sticks so they can see the actual height and exactly where I measured it. Tapes are notoriously 'adjustable' (ok - downright inaccurate with some sellers).

[motorgypsy]

People who can't sell the smaller ones are hitting the wrong market. We love the smaller ones. Wish we had 5 Chinooks and Brandys. Older riders and smaller people love our smaller guys. Unfortunately we only have two of them. Must be the feed! Cause Brilliant at 2 is already taller than Mom and DAD who are 13 2 and 14 hands. And Arwen and Adriel are going to be very large and tall - very large bones and muscular.

[Serendipity]

I had a really pretty 13.1 gelding that was road and trail safe,very quiet and good with kids I had put 5 month training in him and rode him another yr.I almost gave him away to a family for there 6yr girl,good match and still doing well but just had no interest at all.
I like a horse that is in the 14HH mark,I even thought about selling Calabaza because buy cannon bone measurement she should end up being over 15HH she's huge for a 2yr and still growing like a weed,

I wonder if some of the horses that are selling are because of well written ads I think I put to much info but I just don't know where to draw the line.

I know when I look for a horse I tend to go with reputal breeders and buy a young horse or will pick up the one no body wants like Tequila,

[Edurne]

I think that reputation in selling horses is paramount. From what I see, horses are listed as potential sales, either in posts or in sales ads, when the owner has not truly come to the decision to let go of the horse. How many times has it actually happened on this board? I can think of at least two or three postings. How many negotiations have been entered into that didn't see fruition because the owner is not truly "selling". I also think that the buyer should get references from the seller. If the seller is a true professional, they should have no problem in providing them.

[Abejita]

In Standardbreds, you can produce as many foals from ET as possible..but the first one to be born is the only one you can register..so people usually will only do one or two.

[LynnG]

I also think that the buyer should get references from the seller.

...and the seller can get references from the buyer. Who their veterinarian is? farrier?... to start with?

also, experience with horses and/or animals? purpose for intended horse?

[Terry Wallace]

Well....here goes....
From a seller's view. The Paso Fino is the HARDEST horse to sell I ever dealt with....period/bar-none.

I am a seller that will send a video, photos or whatever is asked for. I will "prove" height with photos, provide all health records, etc. Disclose all I know of the horse. You won't get a "surprise" you did not expect if you buy from us.

From my perspective..the horse market has changed dramatically.
It used to be, I had a waiting list of people wanting to buy weanlings & yearlings...they wanted to finish raising and train that horse mostly themselves. I sold every horse I advertised usually withing two weeks...never, ever took more than a month to sell ANY horse...aged broodmare to weanling. When we ran out of new foal crop...we put people on a list. That was when I was breeding AQHA & APHA horses.

Fast-forward to the past nine years...
I have found that Paso weanlings & yearlings just don't sell... the people buying horses want then already broke, going and they want them for $2,500 !! How long does it take to sell a Paso Fino? Well..here it seems to take six months to a year or more. I have friends trying to sell horses they have been advertising literally for YEARS. When do they sell them...usually when they slash the price to half of what they have invested IN them.
I have had horses listed for months, both on the internet and in local papers. I get a few internet hits...and have come to the conclusion that MAYBE one out of ten internet reponses is actually serious. Many will be the scammers that haunt the net, and a few will be sincere buyers.

It has a lot to do with LOCATION. Here, the Paso Fino is not well received, not sought-after, and looked "down upon" as being "TOO"....
Too small, too "hot", too hard to find one that is well trained instead of trained by "domination"....

Its been a hard lesson for me...and thats a fact! If I had it to do over again...I'd stay with AQHA/APHA and Andalusians. Horses I know will SELL.

Right now, and for the past year..I've been trying to get horses sold. It has been one heck of a struggle. I have cut my prices to well below what I have in those horses...and still get very few inquiries. I can sure see the day I will be taking some to the sale if they are not out of here by fall. At a sale..they will be lucky to bring $500 each. I hope it does not come to that.

For me....I can't wait to be OUT of the Paso Fino breeding biz. For me, it was a disasterous choice, and one I'll be paying for, for years to come.

Will I be getting out of horses...nope...I love horses. I will keep 5 or 6 and call it good enough, and stop this madness of breeding in a market already flooded with horses of every breed, its a case of "hindsight is 20/20".....

One thing I'd like to ad...is while being in this breed...I have observed more bad deals, lieing sellers, and misrepresented horses than I can even recall. Honesty LACKS and integrity LACKS among many breeders & sellers. I think its really sad because this breed is barely getting a foothold here... compared to AQHA horses which number over a million in the registry last time I checked. I was involved in the stockhorse breeds over 25 years and never saw as much misrepresentation as I do in this breed.

That is my "take" from the past nine years of "Pasodom".... bottom line....I wish I would never have gotten into breeding them.

As far as taking numbers from horsetopia or dreamhorse..they are not very accurate...as the seller can just delete the ad..if the horse sold or not. You can mark the horse sold if it did...or not. I have had best luck selling with horsetopia. JMO... ;-)