Pleasure Classes????

[cristy]

Has anyone else noticed the dissappearance of the pleasure classes? I attended 2 shows so far this year (I am not going to mention which ones, I am not intending to make anyone mad or rag on anyone I am just wondering if it is like this everywhere or just in my area, and if so if I am the only one that cares?) anyways at both shows I noticed that all the true pleasure horses came in below the ( what I would call proformance horses)that showed in the pleasure class. Unless they changed the rule book when I was not looking I thought a true pleasure horse must... be on a loose rein, flat walk, and stand quietly. What I have observed is horses prancing in place when asked to stop, horses that will not stay on the rail, (Behave) or flat walk, win the class. I do not recall any judge asking for a dismount, only once did I remember one asking the class to back up. There needs to be a place for everyone to be able to show and you should not need a $15000 horse that you could never trail ride to do it. I realize the fino and proformance are more exciting to most to watch but we still need a pleasure class that "Pleasure horses" can catually win in.

[Serendipity]

this is an on going disussion,and really puts those that show and those that trail ride against each other.

Pleasure divion I believe most of us believe should be called Show pleasure its for horses that are not "hot" enough or animated enough for performance and are not tight enough for Fino.

people that trail ride and want to show like me are stuck with the specaty classes country pleasure,western,trail,and versitlity. I am not saying I agree because I have a true pleasure mare but she is not "hot" enough for Pleasure Its just how things are now.

And there are a lot of things the rule book and the real show differ on

Sorry,but I agree with you if that helps I'm in the same boat

[motorgypsy]

Yes "show" pleasure is more animated than the trail pleasure horse. I don't think the mounting and dismounting are in the description of the regular show pleausre classes though. You dismount on the regular side and mount on the off side in Country pleausre class though. We'd like to see country pleasure expanded since as the breed has grown and the number of paso finos has increased particularly in the southeast it's nice to have classes for many different types. But right now there are many classes for the trail type horses but they just aren't utilized much. Those of us who insist on good trail manners really should enter more of these but paso fino shows are so expensive and a lot of us who do trail and other pleasure events aren't multimillionaires so perhaps we can come up with a discount entry fee for these underutilized classes since they are audience pleasers????

We have horses who have the gait and behavior to be show performance, pleasure and country pleasure but we chose to start our first paso fino show with country pleasure because for us it is a better test of how well our horses behave in a new situation. It was great fun by the way.

[Cindy]

All horses in every Pleasure class are asked to back. The dismount is a test used only for close competition to distinguish betwen horses that are equal in all other areas. A Pleasure show horse must still meet the Breed Standard of the Paso Fino horse.

[SandyMM]

Has anyone else noticed the dissappearance of the pleasure classes?
Absolutely - it began way back in the early 80s about the same time the largo disappeared.

[motorgypsy]

We have been pleasantly surprised at the much more obvious distinction between largo and corto in shows in more recent years. We began attending paso fino shows in 1984 and commented even back then that there was basically no change in gait between the two. Today much more effort seems to be made to show a significant difference between the two gaits. LARGO ON!!!

[cristy]

A Pleasure show horse must still meet the Breed Standard of the Paso Fino horse.

I agree 100 % but I think they should also meet the requirements of the pleasure class as well. I think when a horse goes into the class and will not stand, flat walk or behave they should be excused from the class for not meeting the requirements of the class just as a horse that cortos would be excused from a fino class. I am not saying the class should be filled with dead heads, but there are rules for a reason and they should be followed. A horse can be hot and still behave. Even "Show Pleasure" should convey a pleasurable ride, hence the name " Pleasure".

[Cindy]

A horse that does not stand or behave in the class is to be penalized, not excused. A horse that does not flat walk all the time is to be penalized as well. A horse that does not flat walk, not once, not ever, has not met the requirements of the class and may be excused. But I have never seen a horse that did not do at least a couple steps of flat walk in both directions. The only other reasons, according to the rules, for a horse to be excused from the class are misbehaviour that becomes a danger to the other participants or not gaiting at all in any of the required gaits. All other inadequacies of the horse, under current PFHA rules, are to be penalized accordingly and there are percentages for each gait as well as manners, blah, blah. It would be very easy as a judge to excuse from every class those horses that do not meet up to our expectations, however, in many classes that would not leave us much left to judge. As it is, we can only judge what is brought in front of us so it is up to the exhibitors to present the proper horses.

[cristy]

when you have 25 horses in a class and 10 horses with varing degrees of collection and execution do everything right, meaning display all the proper gaits at the approprite times, they stand when asked, and do this all on a loose rein, and 3 horses who will not stand still, 1 who must be circled back at least half a douzen times to keep it on the rail, and will not flat walk, I just cannot justify for any reason placing those 3 horses in the top 5.

Maybe things are different where you are but this is what I have wittenessed. I am not a sore loser either I have not had a horse in a pleasure class in 10 years, this is just what I have observer at the many shows I have attended in the past few years, this year being the worst.

[Serendipity]

cristy55131- another thing to mention and no one likes to admit it is who was riding those 3 horses? I noticed at Nat'l last year just nearly every horse that won or placed really high had a banner around the ring or a preimer table.I'm not saying some of those horses should not have won because at nat'l there are some awesome horses but with that said money has a lot to do with it if the judge is judging 25 horses there's a good chance they know some of those riders.

Money and name does have a lot to do with it I went to a show this weekend and watched a lot of it and could almost pin the class by looking at the rider and who it was not the horse,

Sorry if I upset anyone this is just IMP,

[cristy]

YES! that was the other part I was not even going to attempt to mention for fear of being professionally stoned to death, but I agree faces win shows. not all the judges pin this way but the ones that don't, don't judge much. I realize to an extent this willl never change completely but I think we need to hold the judges more accountable to their placements.

( I still think if a horse does not flat walk the majority of the time when asked, not just a few steps, they should not place when there are many other horses in the class who do. again just my opnion, and you know what opnions are like...)

[Cindy]

Cristy, I cannot comment on or have an opinion about a class that I have not witnessed. Perhaps if we were watching the class together I might agree with you but speculating on some class in some show somewhere is nonproductive. As for the walk, the current rules count the walk as 10% of the class. one must judge the entire class, not just the walk. There are many factors that go into judging a group of horses. Be a ring master and you will see how it is from inside the ring and that the judges are working very hard to do the best job that they can.

I have judged with a lot of different judges and I can tell you that I have not once judged with a judge in this breed who cares who is riding the horse that they are judging or who was not doing their best to place the class in the best way possible. And even standing in the same ring judging the same horses we do not always agree on the placements but I have reasons for my 0placements and they have reasons for theirs. And never, not once have those reasons had to do with anything but the performance of those horses on that day.

And, Nicole, I was at the same show that you were at this weekend. Perhaps you should have looked at the horses as well as the faces on the horses to see if the people who won were actually riding the better horse as well as having the better face. The few classes that I watched were well judged.

[Pasofinoguy]

I was a ring master and cindy is right. You will get to hear and see how the judges see it. Its a different point of view from inside the ring and you will come away with a new respect for our judges.

[Serendipity]

oh Cindy I agree I did not say all would never. this past show I agree for the most part was judge well I was exstatly about my placement in A/O Pleasure Mares I had a great ride that class and I know my mare is not "hot" enough or quick enough for the class but I had fun. Any thats what really matters right? perhaps I'm getting to the point of just knowng more people and who and what they ride I still think of myself as a newbie to the show but really I guess I'm not so much anymore, And that ring master Idea I'll have to look into that I'd love to have the birds eye view and be able to ask questions and get some real anwers.

Because watching the classes I really liked the way this show put Pleasure and performance back to back but some of the classes did not show a big differance in the classes.

but and Nat'l level last yr it just seemed every horse that had the banner around the areana or the preimer table thoses were the horses that place really high or one.I would be willing to bet any class that a judge sees 40 horses has got to be tough even spliting the class but half is really to much to be judges fairly on both accounts judge and exhibitor.

(psst Liked the flying leap ;-) )

[Cindy]

psst Liked the flying leap

Thanks. Luck.

You would be suprised how easy it is to make the cut in a large class. The classes are split at 30 horses so they are never more than 20 something in the ring at one time. I have judged many 20 something classes and the top horses just kind of jump out at you. When judging with another judge and we come to the center of the arena with the same 6 horses for the cut out of 20, what does that tell you.

[motorgypsy]

You do have to consider that the best trainers do get the better horses to train. They are in demand. This does make a difference. And a great trainer can get the best out of a horse. I saw the same horse first ridden by a trainer who happend to be both gifted and undependable and then ridden by someone else. The difference was amazing and the horse went from winning to coming in last with the same competition.