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SandyMM
08-05-2006, 01:58 AM
Have you seen any horses in your area with these symptoms? Horse in question is in NW GA.

Quarter horse mare was fine in the morning in the pasture she has been in for nearly a year.

In the afternoon, she was found in yard next door standing over a Japanese Cherry tree branch on the ground, but no one actually saw her eating the leaves.

Later that evening about dusk, she was discovered huddled in a run-in shed, sweating profusely, all muscles completely rigid, unable or unwilling to move.

Vet came out and ran blood tests, tubed her w/fluids/electrolytes. Possible diagnosis - tying up, HYPP, colic, founder/laminitis... nothing conclusive that night.

3 more vets have seen the mare over the past two-three days. No conclusive diagnosis. Owner told not to give her any pain meds first night as it could be poisoning and the liver might not be able to handle additional stress of processing pain meds. They did tell owner to hose her down frequently and she does appear to get some minor relief frm this and walks around for a few minutes after being hosed down.

Farrier saw her today and concurs with all four vets that it is not hoof-related at this point. Hooves were relatively cool to the touch from the onset.

First vet said it was the 5th case she had seen this week, but this mare was by far the most severe.

Owner has been told he can now give bute.

As of today, mare spends most of her time lying down. She is peeing and pooping normally. She appears hungry and thirsty, but has trouble standing long enough to eat and drink much.

I called Vicky T for advice and to see if she could come out to evaluate. She says she saw two nearly identical cases a several months ago. There was no conclusive diagnosis, but the owners did the following:
Hosed down repeatedly with warm/hot water, feed 'cool' feeds - barley - no oats, grass hay, no grazing, handwalk several times a day.

She said the horses made a full recovery, but it took nearly two months.

According to the information she had, the cause of the rigid muscles, profuse sweating, and inability to stand or walk was _severe_ joint pain throughout the entire body. Without some walking and 'upright' time, the horses would not eat or drink enough, could possibly get pressure sores or even pneumonia from lying down for long periods of time.

We discussed trying to soak the mare's hay to get more fluids/food into her and also feeding small amounts of soaked beet pulp several times a day.

Any experience with similar symptoms would be appreciated. Anybody in GA know of anything blooming/growing right now that could cause this type of reaction?

(Added) vet did not notice any swelling the first night, but light was poor. Yesterday she said there appeared to be some swelling at the base of the neck where it joined the chest.

GeorgeGuns
08-05-2006, 02:22 AM
Did she have a fever? If not, I'm guessing a few things - either Japanese Cherries are too popular for horseowners, or due to the weird weather patterns there is a new or more prevalent mold/bug/substance that is occurring and cropping up.
Please post more as they find out, and I hope the mare gets better real fast! Sounds viral - but what virus??

motorgypsy
08-05-2006, 02:23 AM
WOW!! How terrifying and frustrating for the owner!! Please keep us informed and updated. Perhaps there is a virus?? Tetanus? In humans things that make the bones really ache - influenza, Lyme disease, Dengue fever which I think is caused by a protozoan and is mosquito borne, rhuematoid arthritis which is autoimmune. What a puzzle. I don't know of any poisons that cause achy bones. When our goats ate something poisonous they just threw up and felt really horrible and we shoved water, activated charcoal and mineral oil down them and they recovered in a couple of days. There were three possibilities for their poisoning - rhodadendron, mountain laurel or a native formof peiris sp???. If you have achy bones I would think bute would be used IF it doesn't mask other symptoms and IF the liver can take it???? Maybe DMSO?? It's surely a fantastic antiinflammatory???

appyday
08-05-2006, 02:26 AM
I have extensive knowledge of HYPP...have her call me...

PasoVicki
08-05-2006, 02:32 AM
Lyme disease? Possibly aggravated by severe summer heat?
It doesn't sound like she ate something poisonous, given that there have been a rash of similar cases in the area.
How about other insect borne illnesses . . . or snake bites?

appyday
08-05-2006, 02:44 AM
OK just went to feed my HYPP horse his "special diet" and came back in and re read this....more I see it does not sound like HYPP at this time..I can help her narrow it down some...

for starters is the mare registered? AQHA? Can I have her name/reg number...and a pedigree if it is available..

SandyMM
08-05-2006, 02:48 AM
The vets have now apparently ruled out HYPP. They did draw blood the first night. I can't get in touch with the owner until later tomorrow afternoon, but will pass along the offer. Thanks.

appyday
08-05-2006, 02:50 AM
Actually if they tubed her the first night with electrolites and she was having an HYPP attack they probably would have killed her..

SandyMM
08-05-2006, 03:06 AM
(Added to original post) First vet did not notice any swelling the first night, but light was poor. Yesterday she said there appeared to be some swelling at the base of the neck where it joined the chest.

appyday
08-05-2006, 03:17 AM
Actually several things done will helpl with an HYPP horse too

Soaking hay sucks out K so they get less

The oats are low in K as well as the beet pulp.

Poor grass hay is low in K where a good orchard grass can test at 3.52% (that is what mine tested) which is 4 X the daily legal limit for an HYPP horse..

Bad things are

Keeping in stall and no excercise and keeping off of grass...



Do they ever see the mares skin crawl like there is snakes under it?? Need to check 4-6 hours after feeding for peak K

GeorgeGuns
08-05-2006, 04:17 PM
snake bite? with the odd weather, maybe they are on the move or particularly testy this summer? Spider bite or some other weird insect?

LynnG
08-06-2006, 04:49 PM
why not check out what the symptoms are eating red leaf trees: maple, Wild cherry, etc. since she was standing near a realative species. Those type leaves are very toxic to horses.

motorgypsy
08-07-2006, 09:03 PM
I checked the symptoms for the fruits trees and it is cyanide poisoning which has no symptoms like those Sandy described. Red Maple leaves are only poisonous after they turn brown and dry out so unless they cut a tree or one went down in a storm this would be unlikely.

Now botulism is fairly common. A dead rat can get in hay bales or waterers but I don't know the symptoms for it. DUHHHH paralysis of course!

baileyholc
08-07-2006, 10:30 PM
why not check out what the symptoms are eating red leaf trees: maple, Wild cherry, etc. since she was standing near a realative species. Those type leaves are very toxic to horses.

I was thinking this same thing. And also, West Nyle. Their was an incedint here a few years ago with the West Nyle vaccine. After getting the shot the horse contracted WN anyway. They said it could have been a bad batch of the vaccine or she could have had it before she got the shot they even thought that the vaccine gave her WN. :confused I wish the owner luck in finding out what is going on. Thoughts and prayers headed that way.

Terry Wallace
08-07-2006, 11:02 PM
Sounds like a toxin to me...but what toxin? The WNV would be identifiable by blood.... Was a liver function & kidney function blood done? Any indicators there? You would think they could find a virus...but then it depends on what the lab is testing for.

Any kind of encephalitis..WNV, VEE, WEE, EEE... all have brain swelling, and usually the horse will "head-press" against anything it can...a post, a gate, a wall.... to try and alleviate the pain...after that they usually go down, as they lose their balance, etc.

Is her urine still yellow/clear.... any color change there after these past days...?

PasoPerson38
08-08-2006, 01:43 AM
Wow I have no idea....but let the owner know that many prayers are being said for her and her horse.

Hacienda Del Sol
08-08-2006, 02:24 PM
I'm thinking a mold or fungus is causing this problem. Has there been a change in weather patern in the area? Has there been a cross-comparison of the specifics of these cases?

Terry Wallace
08-09-2006, 01:34 PM
How is that mare doing these days?

SandyMM
08-09-2006, 01:59 PM
Last time I checked on her she was up, still stalled, but did not see owner when I was there. At least the mare is looking more comfortable... still no idea what caused this episode, but HYPP was definitely ruled out.

appyday
08-09-2006, 03:12 PM
Thanks keep us posted..