To Geld or Not to Geld

[pasofantasy]

I was surprised by some expressions and comments at a show this year while talking about what I decided about my colt. The decision has been made, but I thought I'd run this by you.

My colt is by Siempre Fuerte and out of Alexandra de Candela. Milagros Bendecidos de CO is a grandson of El Chino de El Batey, a multi-Grand National Bella Forma stallion. On the other side, his dam is the last daughter of Dulce Siesta de Kofresi, who had some title like "Horse of the Year" or something similar in PR many years ago. Skippy is well-gaited with low action and a real sweetheart.

I'm sorry, that it's hard to get a picture on flatground at my place. The farm's on a hillside. Nobody has been able to help me take pictures lately. His nose is usually in my face, but I got this body shot of him eating hay, but he's facing downhill slightly, not on flat land.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/pasofantasy/Web125032606022.jpg

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[Pasofinoguy]

Keep him a stud. looks good so far.

[ErinC]

depends on A LOT !!!!

[pasofantasy]

Erin, what all do you think it depends on? When I used residence as a factor, I was thinking of location. Some areas don't have many pasos as we have here.

I'm surprised, that the poll is 3:3 now with a slow market.

[ErinC]

And that is a good point.

I gelded my colt this spring, I would have loved to keep him a stallion but in all honesty it would not have been fare to him.

I think it depends on living situations ( for a stallion )
I think it depends on how often he would be used for breeding
I think it depends on what you plan to do with him
I think it depends on his lines, his size, and his attitude
I think it depends on the market
And Yes area.

I can come up with more,,,, trust me I laid awake at night for many months before I decided to geld.
Ask anyone on here I did not want to. But I am very happy I did.

This is my now gelded 2 yr old.
he is 2 yr old already 14.3H and very smart/sane/and a largo to die for.
he will make a great endurance horse, so he has the gait the color, the size. and the brain!


http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/77608Pillo-med.jpg

[ErinC]

dont get me wrong, I think your colt is handsome.

very nice! and what you do is up to you and only you!



but I just think that there are so so so many GOOD// GREAT stallions out there, at good prices to breed to. We have so many stallions in this breed.

[Abejita]

ok we have a stud here who was himself a GNC Bella Forma Stallion..he is pleasure ..but more of a show pleasure but not National anymore . He puts out a very consistant typey foal as far as looks goes and pretty much personality/gait also. He is in 3 futuritiy programs. I have had two outside mares bred to him in the last 4 years.two scheduled for this year backed out (one wants to come back next year.) All these breedings were purchased through auctions.We got no stud fee.

The cost of promotion is tremendous. Ads in the magazine.Plus many people will want to see offspring on the ground.Are you willing to give away breedings or breed mares of your own to show what he does produce.Are you willing to take him to shows to get him where he can be seen? Some bloodlines seem to sell themselves ( Coral LaCe is one example)

If you like what he is and are willing to face the fact that you are not going to make a fortune selling breedings, then weigh all the other option discussed here and make the decision.

[ErinC]

Some bloodlines seem to sell themselves ( Coral LaCe is one example)


yes,, you are so right!

mine above is a 3x's Coral

[cowboy ed]

hmm, you said the decision has been made, but what is your decision? just curious.....

[pasofantasy]

I'll tell later! I want everyone to have a fair chance to voice their honest opinion. I don't want anyone influenced by our decision.

[macadoo]

I kept my boy a stud until he was 4 1/2...we bred him for 4 babies which are really nice...The main reason I gelded him was that I was not capable of handling a stud...He was a sweetheart but still a stud...I have loved seeing his babies but I also love having him as a gelding.... :runaway:

[motorgypsy]

If keeping him a stallion causes you serious difficulties then by all means geld or get a partner if he's that good and let the partner deal with the breedings etc.

If you want to trail ride him with strange mares you may want to geld because although we don't have a problem with the stallion, you can't count on other riders to control their mares when they are in season.

If it's not a problem for him to stay a stallion you can always geld later. Our two year old colt is well behaved and shares a paddock with his dad who seems to really like him, so not gelding is not a problem for us. We also have a mini stallion who goes in and out the the stallions' paddock and plays with them and he's not a problem either. We have one filly on the property but we may move her since she's rather bad about getting out of her paddock.

One additional comment. A stallion will behave if you expect him to behave and you start with them from the beginning demanding respect. If he is really that intractable after a person experienced with stallions works with him then he definitely should be gelded. Our breeding stallion got in with the mares once several years ago and they taught him a serious lesson so now even if the fence is down he stays where he belongs and we bring the girls to him for breeding.

[pnalley]

My criteria would be:

Can you afford to show successfully or otherwise promote a stallion so his services would be acceptable to the market?

Can you properly handle a stallion and any incoming mares? Do you have the facilities to do so?

Do you have a "name" and reputation in the breed?

If it was a proven stallion and an unknown owner it wouldn't be too risky, but an unproven horse with an unknown owner would be risky.

If any of these answers are no Geld him and enjoy. If you are in the right position to do the above, it would be time to think about the horse.

He would need to earn the right to stay a stud.

What kind of mind does he have?

Does he have the conformation and breeding to be acceptable to the market?

Does he have a show record? Or other credentials?

If he is yet unbred, and all the above answers are yes. I'd possibly breed him and see if:

His mind stays right

He consistently passes as good or better then himself.

He passes gait, mind, conformation

If he doesn't do all the above geld.

I can tell you if he was my horse I would geld. I have no want, need or desire for a stallion. The old saying a good stallion makes a great gelding is very true.

What ever you choose, I hope you enjoy him and are successful in your endeavors.

[PasoPerson]

Please understand this is JMHO and based on how MY stallion is.

I have no intent to breed, ever. Too costly and too much trouble, for all the reasons stated above.

However, my stallion is as gentle and polite as a gelding. Never bred, he acts like he doesn't even know he's a stud. He's a Simbolo de Besilu son, age 7 (I think), a beautiful chestnut that shines like a copper penny in the sun, and has flaxen in his tail. There is nothing I can't do with him; he's very brave and obedient. My only limitation is that I cannot use him as my Sheriff's Mounted Unit Auxillary horse 'cause he's a stud. (Mind you, this mare kicked the crap outta me and my horse more than once, but SHE'S still there ... but that's another story.)

He just has a special something because he IS a stud. Only shown him once, "just because", but only once, to prove something to myself. But I keep him a stud because (1) he behaves very well and (2) he has a bit more pizzazz than my geldings have ever had.

***DUCKING***

[pasofantasy]

I'm glad, that I posted this for others, who are thinking about gelding. There are some very good things to consider posted here. It may be a help to different people.

MGs, I'm quite familiar with stallions. Telling a mare owner to keep her horse's butt out of a stallion's face is something that happens, because many just don't expect to see them in certain settings and if there behaving. Those boys do behave as you expect and demand! I've kept a stallion with other animals in the past, even a gelding or a mare.

Ahhh, pasoperson. I'm sure, that you remember the reaction of people when I showed up on a trailride with a stallion years ago. He wasn't a problem at all, but a gelding got into trouble. We had a ranger tell us once, that stallions weren't allowed in his area, but Ray could come any time, that we wanted to take him there. He saw, that studs could be excellent on a trail! I understand how you feel about stallions having that certain pizzazz. I personally don't care for most mares.

[Pasolady]

Don't know what you have decided, or maybe have not read far enough! But I'm always for gelding if the question even comes up. Unless you yourself plan to use him for stud because you know/think his is an awesome sire/or sire potential then by all means geld him. There are in my HMO just too many stallions out there who actually contribute nothing to the breed.

There are too many stallions out there who are nice but contribute nothing to the breed for many reasons, mostly just because if unknown, no one wants to breed to them for whatever reason. Myself, there are just too many nice horses out there available that are rideable, with wonderful bloodlines, conformation and abilities that are [b]grown and ready to be used. And best of all at reasonable prices.[/[/color]b]

Whatever you decide hope he turns out to be what you want!

[pasofantasy]

I'd already decided to geld him before I did this poll. I got strange looks from some people at a paso show here, so I thought, I'd check with others. He is now a sweet, lovable gelding. In 6 weeks, he'll go into training and I might not even get him back. This had nothing to do with what I wanted. I did not see the need for him to stay a stud in this area.

http://www.americanpasofinos.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11552&highlight=

[pasopleasure]

Does anyone else out ther wonder why we can't snip the end ot a horses tail to make the classic "J" as that is somehow altering the horse. But we can hack off their testicles and thereby change their behavior with impunity? I just do not believe in behavior modification by surgury. Removal from the gene pool if the horse is not good I do believe in....so why are there not more spayed mares? THe mare accounts for at least 60% of what the foal will be. Why isn't anyone cutting mares? It's an easy procedure. Sure gets rid of all that PMS and heat stuff. JMO but mares act out worst than stallions when it is that time. Hah! Here we have behavior modification by knife again. Or feed them up on RegluMate. Yet in many years of horses...I have only seen one spayed mare. ANd that was a post pregnancy where she had prolapsed. Just wondering? Anyone else ever thought of it?

[pnalley]

Spaying mares is more expensive then a traditional gelding.

As a rule mares don't act obnoxious (like many studs do)

I will say, Paso stallions seem to be MUCH more sensible that other breed stallions

[PattiB]

We spayed three mares, two I owned the other the stallion owner had. WHY because after his second foal crop it was determined the stallion carried a inheritable defect that caused the palate to be paralyzed. All the colts were gelded and the fillies spayed. It cost at that time $600 to spay and $125 to geld.

[Terry Wallace]

Spaying mare is WAY more expensive than gelding and not always a "simple" procedure. I have spayed a Paso mare. She could not be spayed ******lly, so it cost me darn near $1200...that was just for the surgery...drugs & recovery made the bill much higher...its a three day hospital stay (minimum). This was a spay procedure done from the flank. One incision is made on the left side, the left ovary is taken out, and the right ovary is brought over and retrieved through the same left flank incision, so there is only one cut made.

Had she been able to be spayed ******lly (no outside surgical incision to the flank) it would have been right at $750.00 and that was 8 years ago.
With a ******l spay...there is no incision. The ovaries are grabbed through the uterine wall, and twisted off with a chain (very similar to a stainless steel mini twitch) under sedation of course...and in just a few days...the uterine lining heals itself...its quite safe that way...but of course pricey. The veterinarian who perfected the technique is Joel Brubaker. He use to be my vet before he moved away.

It is COST that prohibits most people from spaying mares.

As to gelding....Oh yes....there are many, many inferior, substandard, mediocre stallions...and for what? So they can spend thier lives in solitary confinement as most do? To me..that is cruel. To keep a horse entire, and never use him for breeding, and then keep him by himself as humans do...is a life of confinement.

Its no different than neutering a dog or a cat. It enhances the quality of life for 99% who get castrated. (or spayed) Not to mention it reduces the risk of genital related cancers.

[Terry Wallace]

PattiB..that was a very responsible and great thing to take responsibility of and "do the right thing" to prevent any more production of that "defect".

Kudos ...

[PattiB]

It wasn't something we wanted to be associated with. We could have just put down the stallion and colt that had the same problem and not said anything. But then the offspring that didn't show signs could have passed it on and it might not have shown up for several foals later or never. The hardest part was convincing the other owners of colts that they needed to geld them.

[Mellifluous]

If only the QH people with HERDA carriers would be as responsible.