Canter - good or bad?

[GeorgeGuns]

Fran wrote in another thread:
however, as I'm getting older,I just prefer a nice corto and a lope...

I get asked a lot if Pasos canter. Recently had a gal look at Indi who has a real sweet little trail lope, 3 beat, one of the plusses. I make sure all these horses here know what "canter" means as part of their ground work, esp if they need help gaiting on lunge or in the round pen.

I've heard of pasos that have a 4 beat canter, or a rough one, but I haven't met one around here. The ones that I have seen or ridden have a fine canter when asked.

Plusses for me: Can help a horse find largo as it seems they will gait better faster after canter than before; can help a horse lateralize on lunge or in roundpen; Nice break sometimes!
Minuses: probably easier to start bucking from canter than gait, but fortunately I don't have enough bucks under my belt to say for sure; If a horse likes it too much they may get hoppity behind as they try to talk you out of gaiting and into canter

Thoughts?

[ErinC]

I love it , and I think it helps gait, I will open mine up and let him go, I make then stay in a largo till I want the canter...
then it is a nice canter, then I ask for a largo after the canter, and a nice collected one I get, as fast as he can....

I do find it will help increase the Largo speed...

[appyday]

I canter mine

[CarolU]

I should qualify this. Baby has a horrible canter and we don't EVER ride it...YUK. Diablo on the other hand has a corto and a canter, no largo. (I can do as Sandy described, have a slower corto and a faster corto - but I know the difference, it is not a nice extended largo)

But my others all have smooth canters and I consider it a gait like any other. I train at all gaits and require consistency on a loose rein and stay in gait - whichever gait it is. Not just a canter, but roll-backs, bow-ties, figure 8's and flying changes. The canter is a great rear-end conditioning gait.

I do know people who have never cantered their horses...some who have never riden a canter! I think some don't care for the rounding of the back in the canter, feels too much like a buck waiting to happen.

[songbird]

I canter Czar and it's the smoothest thing! A nice gentle rocking and I love it!!

[appyday]

Carol you cantered Condesa didn't you..I think she is very smoothe.

[PASOFAN]

I canter mine whenever. He has the smoothest lope and slow nice too. His gallop is off sometimes if no one is behind him, he alwasy has to keep an eye behind him on scary things..lol and it arches his back so it is rough, but if he is up front he is good to go...

I love to canter and lope him!

[lynne K]

yup I canter mine, beautiful canter on both. hey they canter out in the field so why not when your riding. I like them to learn to take the right lead when I ask for it. I have to be careful here where I canter though as in some places out here there are a lot of mole holes. So I have to pick and choose the right places.

[fran]

here's another thing I love about MY pasos...I can only compare mine because most people don't want you to canter if you are trying out a paso...so you never get a chance to feel how handy they are...anyway,mine lope with loose reins and they will gallop madly if I urge them,but they always come back to me...even if they spook...my old gelding did a 360 on me when I first got him because he had never seen cattle before and he took off so fast i couldn't see for tears...I just let him run and hung on...he slowed down,snorting and blowing and prancing....and ever since then he never ran away again....you see,I made him walk all the way back and take a good look and kept him hanging around those darn cows and then back again....so he only runs a few feet now...ROFLMAO....horse are inherently lazy like people..the tighter the gait in puerto rican horses or mixture seem to have a short canter,a largo horse from my experience has a bigger canter which is like a normal horse,except they are light on their rear end so you float instead of pound...the closest I can say is maybe an arab canter...I personally can't stand the short canter...the transitions are not as smooth....nothing funnier than to see a fino horse canter...they can't "uncollect" as easy...

[fran]

I was almost going to say "pony type canter" for short canter but I slapped my wrists....

[motorgypsy]

The main thing is that the horse gaits the gait you ask for when you ask for it. With Chinook the canter and gallop has actually greatly extended her largo speed and stride.

[cowboy ed]

some paso finos dont really have much of a canter, more of a little shuffling gallop. others have a nice canter. i think the horse should be properly trained so that you can ask for the gait and speed that you want.
i dont think there is anything wrong with asking for the canter. like with any horse, though, if that is all you ask for, then the horse comes to prefer it. will it mess up the horse's gait? not likely, unless the gait isnt very good to begin with. cowboy ed

[Jane Hurl]

I've never ridden it, but I have to tell you, The Divine Miss Em's canter/gallop is a joke. When the bunch of them are full of themselves and on a tear in the field, the rest stretch out and look good ... and then, there goes Emily ... SCRAMBLING along behind. She looks like she's really working at it. TRYING. Concentrating hard. Discombobulating. It's the funniest looking gait!

[El Indio Elegante]

My opinion of cantering a paso is let them be accustomed to there gaits so they don't get mix matchy after u canter them. I didn't start cantering my horse Indio until he was like 8. I wouldn't of ever done except for i took him to a local schooling show and they had speed events and i would largo as fast as i could but it wasn't fast enough so i let him break. I've let my mare canter a couple of times but even at her age after she canters she gets mix matchy with her gait. I'm not going to try to canter my other paso until he calms down more and gets accustomed to gaiting

[GeorgeGuns]

Jane I know what you mean!!! Indi didn't sort out any kind of canter til she was into her third year. I used to joke (still do sometimes) and say she looked like a New York hooker in a tight mini skirt and high heels chasing after a bus.

[moonrize]

Letting your horse break is the worse thing you can do. Your horse should learn the appropriate cues to canter and pick up leads. I only let my horses canter from the walk - never urge them from gait so that they don't learn to break gait.

I have one gelding that has the sweetest western pleasure lope that any QH would die for - totally natural and slow. But then again this particular horse has no largo to speak of. My big gelding can largo as fast as any horse can canter and has a true steady gait. I've never taught him to canter as he can keep up with any horse.

[motorgypsy]

And of course we have one with a "one beat canter" - like Rusel's all four feet off the ground. Now she has an awesome gallop - fast as lightening but her canter is the cartoon horse kangaroo canter. It's not bad to ride actually but hugely funny to watch. And when she does it she does it with head and tail high in the air and all four feet hit at once. A PR trainer said it's a sign of a fino horse and she's fino line all the way for sure. Her daughter will do it also and somewhere I have a picture of both of them doing it together but of course I can't find it????

[Ginger]

Another poll one might think of would be "Is there a difference, in your opinion, between the canter and the lope?"

[motorgypsy]

Yes canter and lope are very different - at opposite ends of collection. The fanciest canter is the trote galope canter that looks like a carousel horse and Chinook does the flattest western lope you've ever seen. We boarded where the owner is an allbreed judge and she said Chinook would be an awesome Western show horse with that flat walk and lope - smooth and slow and flat - no vertical action at all - and can go all day.

[moonrize]

Agree with the Kyles on the canter vs. lope. However, I would add that a good lope has collection for impulsion and rythym, but it is a lower, longer collection than what is asked in the canter. The canter is more up - head and legs, a quicker footfall, and more action in knees and hocks. Almost like an extended lope. My QHs can differentiate between a canter and a lope very easily. My experience with the pasos is that they either have a natural lope OR a natural canter - or some sort of scrambling who-knows-what-their-legs-are-doing gait that is supposed to be a 3 beat gait.

[appyday]

Letting your horse break is the worse thing you can do. Your horse should learn the appropriate cues to canter and pick up leads. I only let my horses canter from the walk - never urge them from gait so that they don't learn to break gait.

.

We assumed you would "ask" them for a canter and which lead not just push them into it and excpt whatever lead they gave you...come on...

[PasoPerson38]

Nope never.
I feel that it teaches them to break gait at the largo, then you end up with a slower largo. I sometimes ran my trainer's fino gelding to get him hyped up so I had more energy to make him fino, but that was the only time, and I did not run a long time just a few feet to gain extra energy.

[fran]

There is no difference between a canter and a lope in terminology...canter is eastern,lope is western,both meaning a nice easy pleasureable three beat...how about "hand gallop,por favor???now that could be interesting....

[fran]

I found that the" disembobulated at a canter paso" to have been a pacey youngster while the ones with a nice proper canter which they automatically fall into,are usually more trotty...so which one gaits better?...the disembobulated one is probably smoother at the gait...another surmize...but don't quote me on that...I probably wouldn't let that horse canter...I'd ride it more at gait and walk and push it slowly...that kind of a horse can also gait faster as it gets more in shape...but probably still have a disembobulated canter...but who cares?....it will come with better balance....that horse also probably gaits on a loose rein but will break when pushed to much...

[Terri]

Boy do I feel stupid. You're not suppose to canter? I thought that was only true of the very young, just started under saddle ones. We canter and gallop all the time! Mine can leave the large quarter horses in the dust, and then fall right back into a largo when I ask. But then again, I ride just for the fun of it, couldn't find a show ring if I fell into it.

[Polly Aulton]

Rambo has a superb canter/lope that he can use all day long without tiring and I can ride it all day long. He's also got a fino, corto and a superb largo. I'm not big on the fino so we have to work on that and I admit I'm not working on it at all but just a squeeze and we can change gears. He's a real fun horse. And if you give him his head he can pick his way down darn near any trail.
As for not letting him lope I say "phooey" If you've got a horse that's a great ride in any gear then dang it ride him in any gear you like and have fun.
And yes, Crystal, out here canter and lope are one in the same and used interchangeably.
Polly

[Sharon Leboffe]

Yep, I let Canseco canter and love it! On a trail ride he can go from a flying largo into a canter and then back to largo when I ask. He has a beautiful, smooth canter, but I find that the canter excites him more than his largo, so have to be vigilent if he tries to grab the bit and take off! We ride out with QHs and Arabs and his largo is faster than their canter/hand gallop but he prefers to canter when getting tired. Our Pasos will do whatever we ask, but we make sure that all our rides are controlled and never "cowboy" around, i.e. they only canter when asked. However, I believe that a Paso should be "locked in" gait before cantering. Pasos are truly a versatile breed and we should enjoy ALL their gaits! BTW, Canseco is 17 and I am 60 and we are aging gracefully together! LOL :D

[Fuego]

"Boy do I feel stupid. You're not suppose to canter? I thought that was only true of the very young, just started under saddle ones. We canter and gallop all the time! Mine can leave the large quarter horses in the dust, and then fall right back into a largo when I ask. But then again, I ride just for the fun of it, couldn't find a show ring if I fell into it."

LMAO at you Terri! No need to feel stupid at all. Evidently you're well ahead of the info/learning/training curve then many.

You obviously recognize your Paso Finos as horses, and not useless equine novelties with a singular trait/ability.

If a person doesn't wish to canter, that's fine. But it does the breed a great disservice and perpetuates the misconception that Pasos are worthless accept for their paso fino gait to say cantering a Paso Fino is detrimental to the pf gait in any fashion. Cantering may be detrimental to a horse that lacks training or a the rider lacks ability, but neither is a reflection on the horse's abilities or the breed.

I agree that there are some Pasos I wouldn't want to canter simply because it's not a nice canter to ride.

PASO FINOS ARE HORSES. They have their own unique traits ( which breed doesn't? that's what makes them a breed), but they are still JUST horses. Why is this basic fact so easy for so many people to overlook/ignore?

[fran]

when I have occasion to do a demo,I always try to leave the ring at a canter...I always include it too if I can,both collected and faster...yes, pasos like most horses get a bit excited when they canter,but if you let them out for a good run while riding, they settle right down afterward...but maybe it is not good to do that...makes them too happy and content and they don't snort and prance and fino anymore...lol

[finolover]

no, not never...my back can't stand it, that's why i bought paso fino's

[PasoJoy]

I canter whenever I can...sometimes I ask for it, sometimes my horses do.. :shock: Either way I love it.

[Brigitte]

Marinero had a bad canter at first bouncy and all, but now his canter is ultra smooth, WHEN he's relaxed

[motorgypsy]

Our paso finos' canter is as smooth as silk. We have back problems, arthritis, etc. and we canter whenever we get the chance.

As far as differentiating between a canter and a lope, I learned to ride on working QH's that had a real lope. Very little forward motion, no vertical motion, short steps, very relaxed, low head and slower than a trot. The better ones could lope as slow as a walk if they wanted to but none of that "agonizing" strange gait that they do as a lope in QH shows. NOONE rode the trot. None of the QH's ever trotted. They either walked or loped or did a faster version of the canter or galloped. The word canter was used only for the show gait. It may not have any more forward motion than the slow lope but it has one heck of a lot more vertical motion, high head and a very energized appearance as compared to the total relaxation of the QH lope which is a dream to ride. Our PF's lope beautifully. Try it - you'll love it - and no it doesn't produce a slower largo. It's like cross training. The more you lope, canter and gallop, the faster you can largo.

[Ginger]

I don't quite know how to explain it where anyone would understand it, but I don't believe that the canter/lope are any more identical than the jog/trot. I might be wrong, but I'd like some QH people's input.

You don't do the jog in the huntseat class, and you don't do the trot in the western pleasure class, same with lope/canter. There's a difference in movement/collection/topline, I think. But, I'm going on the "old book" still. Things might have changed.

[appyday]

Crystal...the Apps have followed suit with the QH now in rated (pointed) shows in the Western Pleasure classes we walk, jog..extend the jog and lope and lope with an increase in forward motion. This got the horses that were being crippled by the shoulder to the rail..hip out mechanical lope. I had one of them..I had to give him 6 months off and start him over as a 3 yr old.

[Polly Aulton]

Love the shoes Crystal. Manolos?
Polly

[CarolU]

I agree with Crystal, the lope is more level and 'straightlegged' if you will, a good lope looks like a rocking chair. The canter is more elevated and collected, lots of bend in the knees, the head carriage is a little higher and the horse is more of a package.

[Carol Nelson]

My gelding has the most wonderful canter, and sometimes out of sheer delight, he will break into it and I let him do it. Of course, he's 20 and well broke so it doesn't affect him gaiting at all. Now, a young horse, I probably wouldn't let do that on their own until those gaits are firmly cemented!

[Heidi]

..."one beat canter" - like Rusel's all four feet off the ground. ...her canter is the cartoon horse kangaroo canter.
...hugely funny to watch. And when she does it she does it with head and tail high in the air and all four feet hit at once. A PR trainer said it's a sign of a fino horse.
I wonder if this translates into a lack of extension? Conformation? Perhaps not for your mare since it sounds like she does have a nice canter, and it sounds like she is "pronking", like what goats do, out of sheer exhuberance. I'll bet that while it may look funny, she probably looks beautiful, too!
I rode a QH mare who had a very nice canter if it was slow. Ask for any speed at all and she became the roughest jack-hammer you've ever ridden! I watched someone else ride her and it appeared that she would not, or could not, extend her legs further for speed, she just tried to speed up the motion of the small steps. (like a fino-canter?)
I do not recall her shoulder angle, and I remember I wondered if she had foundered. I never did figure out why she would not extend herself and the owner sold her a short time after that because she was not comfortable. Perhaps she was show-ring trained and that was just the "speed" she was set at.
Heidi

[motorgypsy]

Yup - you are exactly right - she "pronks"! Just another skill our versatile paso finos have! :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:

[Jasfino]

Jasper can canter out in the field but Im not taking any chances with him right now. I am afraid he might get to liking it a little too much... :-?

[Jane Hurl]

I have an Arab that does Rusel's "one beat canter". He looks absolutely ridiculous running across a field. If he wasn't so big, and so dark, you'd swear he was a jack rabbit!

His shoulder? VERY upright. His pasterns? VERY upright. So, yes, I believe this weird, extremely up and down canter/lope/whatever you want to call it IS conformational and DOES translate into a lack of extension. Doesn't matter what the breed is.

BTW, in western Canada "canter" is an English riding term. It's western equivalent is "lope". "Gallop" is a flat out go-for-the-finish-line run.

Me? I don't intend to do any of them anymore. I'm happy with a flat walk and a slow corto, thank you very much! (Rose keeps telling me that if I ever decide to "open her up", my young filly, "Damita" will really fly. Bred to largo ... but she's never gonna get the chance! Not with ME aboard!)