High Schools today...

[Helene]

My daughter, a senior, started going to a brand new high school on Friday. It is a gorgeous school with lots of windows, super modern, a huge change from her almost 100 year old school last year...
She HATES it. The school now is fenced, closed campus, with a gate. She has to pay for her parking space (not much...just $20.00 per year), has no locker (there are none for anyone except the athletes), video cameras in all classrooms as well as common areas.
No hats or caps allowed, as are no piercings other than on ears, no unusual hair colors to express any kind of individuality.
She is not allowed to go to her car other than when she arrives or leaves the campus...so she has to carry her things around with her....
I don't know but I enjoyed High School, especially as senior....we were finally free, making our own decisions...slowly emancipating ourselves, expressing ourselves...
While some of the things implimented aren't that bad, video cameras in every classroom?????? I would hate to be a teacher....Not that I would be afraid of doing something wrong, but I just don't like being watched all the time....What if you want o scratch your "?" my daughter asked me...Yeah what if?...

[Carol Nelson]

Unfortunately, it's things like Columbine that have lead to school environments like these. :(
For the mistakes of a few others, the majority must pay.
But I guess that having a safe place for my daughter to go to school would be worth the hassles.
I am not immune, my daughter is in graduate school...and it can happen anywhere...I pray for her safety as her college is in a seedy section of town, and she has to walk to her car at night. Luckily, it is a large group that gets out at the same time so there will be safety in numbers...I hope...

[CarolU]

Helene, that is awful. Like going to high school in prison. Is that the only high school in your area? I think I'd rather send my child to one that is a little more open, even if it is a little less safe. There is no point in having freedom, if you have to do it behind bars with video cameras on you 24/7.

I don't blame her, I'd hate it too.

[Helene]

Yes, she likened it to a prison. She wondered if there were even some cameras in the bathrooms.....I think I would consider letting her change schools if it wasn't her senior year and because of all her friends. She can make it one more year.
We live in a very small community and everyone knows everyone's business around here. There's only about 600 students in the entire school. Most kids have known one another since elementary school. There are few new students ...If this is happening in this "community", then I wonder how bad it is elsewhere....By the way, no cell phones are going to work in the building...
I don't know...I think it can go TOO far with security. This school has had very low incidents of bullying or drug use...very low incidents of violence.
I can see random checks, but constant cameras?
If someone wants to bring a gun or whatever...they are having to "tote" backpacks everywhere...
Maybe we need surveillance in every home???? I read a book with my daughter last a couple of years ago...I forgot the title (1984??), but it kept talking about "Big Brother is watching you".....Scary....

[Abejita]

yes George Orwell 1984..

I am kinda surpised at the no piercings and hair color rule (although I didnt say I was against it) being a public(I assume) school. What about clothing-Do they have a dress code? No hat or caps..well that is just common manners to not wear your hat inside a building..No Lockers does suck..I think I would have needed a hand truck to tote all my books around in High School.
As someone who went through 12 years of Catholic school and can honestly say what you hear about that is bull pucky (now maybe back before the early to mid 70's some of that was true)I believe making kids follow dress codes and such prepares them for the real word of work places that do make you do such things. No cell phones- Why is that so bad?Why does anyone ,adults included, need to be available 24/7??? Emergencys you say?I think we overate what is an emergency. What ever did we do when we didnt have cell phones and you needed to let your child know that he/she needed to say get off the bus at their friends because you were not going to be at home ..you called the school and they let the child know..GASP..
Now the camera thing is a little creepy to think about..I am surprised they didnt go full bore with metal detectors...

[CarolU]

Helene, they have rolling backpacks, like the overnight suitcases on wheels. They also have rolling 'briefcases' for salesmen that hold a lot of stuff. That would save her shoulders.

[Helene]

Actually, I would prefer metal detectors (there are none) before they walk into the building and I am also all for random searches.
My daughter has a cell phone, but knows it is not to be used in school unless it's an emergency. Actually, at the old school, she was very much reprimanded when she called her father, my husband, to see how I was doing (I had just come out of surgery and she was worried). She called on her lunch break, in the hallway...not in a classroom...I have found cell phones very helpful, especially since I have two teenagers. I want to know where they are and who they are with at all times.
I can understand forbidding cell phones in class, but otherwise what is so bad about them outside of the classroom?
Dress code...no short shorts, spaghetti straps, belly shirts, shirts that have any kind of pictures on them...
Both of my kids went to a private Christian school for their elementary education. They wore uniforms, small classes, strict supervision. I switched their school when I realized how narrow minded and limited their education turned out to be. They weren't taught to think for themselves, to be responsible for themself, and to deal with the general society. They were waaaay to protected. And I haven't regretted the switch (and neither have they).
I have been very happy with their school up till now. Most of their teachers were/are trustworthy and genuinely care about the kids. I trust them to teach them right and I also trust my kids to tell me if something is wrong. I can't see what constant camera supervision is good for. In hallways, maybe, but in the classroom? The teacher is the supervisor...in my opinion...and the students supervise him/her in return.
My son starts college tomorrow as freshman. I went on an orientation with him. It is so different. Way more students, no metal detectors either, didn't see any security personnel, no fences. Instead, there were benches outside, people in groups discussing things...Way more "school-like" than the high school.
I guess cameras will help determine when a teacher teaches "inappropriate" materials, insults a student, or as evidence in law suits...I wonder when we all will be "microchipped"? My husband is convinced this will happen in the near future, so we can track all immigrants, criminals, etc....for "our protection", to protect "our freedom"....

[Abejita]

well I dont feel my schools were like that at all..(at the risk of starting WWIII..there is a difference between Christian Schools and Catholic Schools IMO) Not many people had Religion class where the Sister was teaching us what natural occurances could explain the miracles of the Exodus..and this was 1986/87..Just last week on the History channel they had it too..

Your mentioning college is interesting I wonder what it is that makes High Schoolers more prone to comitting these large acts of violence as opposed to College?

[Heidi]

...I wonder what it is that makes High Schoolers more prone to comitting these large acts of violence as opposed to College?
Everyone is required (usually) to go to High School...and there could be some animosity about 'having' to go while College is voluntary...you WANT to be there, or you aren't there.

[Brigitte]

:shock: Ok..i like my school a bit more now

[GeorgeGuns]

High school vs college - most high schoolers are minors, more liability to protect, most college students are not minors.

Hair color and stuff - sounds good! School is for educating, not hairdos.
Cellphones - I think they should ban them frm restaurants too! Too much distraction and too much temptation. Most schools have payphones... last I looked they still work
Cameras.. well ya never know what might have gone hush hush and the school may well be watching teachers!
Not going to car - oh well. Kids can learn to plan for the day, take what they need and only what they need, yeah?
Caps.. I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would want to wear a cap indoors.

IMO school only lasts so many hours a day, kids should be in an environment that is conducive to education, not socializing, they can practice their social skills after hours. Call me old fashioned, but hey, if I had kids I'd appreciate limit setting going on out in the world where I can't be present.

[Linda Y]

Not going to car - oh well. Kids can learn to plan for the day, take what they need and only what they need, yeah?

How many of you had a car when you were in high school?? Am I the odd one out? I didn't get a car until I was out of school, went to work and bought one myself.
I also didn't have a phone, stereo, TV or a closet full of clothes.
Don't get me started...

[qltrlori]

The stuff kids do these days is astonishing. Oral sex is just something nice you do to show you like some one. That is just the beginning. God only knows what they are taking pictures of with their cell phones. Or "texting" during class. So few kids are well supervised by adults they are getting WAY into things they shouldn't much earlier.

I would send my kids to that school. Our highschool here doesn't even enforce it's own dress code, so some girls dress like strippers.

Teenagers need guidance and rules. Without would be anarchy. Read Lord of the Flies.

Lori

[RitmicoRox5]

at our school ever since a rumored shooting was supposed to take place they have increased where u can be in the hallways etc...

if you had to go to the bathroom in class...you first have to fill out a pass in your planner signed by the teacher, sign out of the classroom, and grab the bathroom pass...not to hard to do right...except for the fact that the bathroom passes color coordinate to specific bathroom "zones" if you are caught outside of said color zone...you get a 2 hour saturday detention...because you went to the wrong bathroom

*my sister has been joking around that a great excuse would be telling the "campus monitor" taht you have explosive diarrhea and you couldnt find the correct bathroom*

overall its kinda stupid but the school is only trying to protect the students blah blah blah...so i guess its ok

[Helene]

I strongly disagree with some of you. Schools are here to teach children not only math, reading, etc, but also prepare them for life as adults, especially High School. Kids need to be taught to get along with others, how to handle stress, how to solve problems, get adjusted to society, to name a few things...They are not mindless bodies to "stuff in knowledge", but have feelings, imagination, creativity, and opinions. I do agree a lot of this stuff should be taught by their families, but I think school has a broader outlook, more diversity, than families can't teach. I would be homeschooling if I thought that all they needed was "book knowledge".
I live "in the boondocks", a farming community, 3 miles from the next family with kids. My daughter has a job (24 hours per week) to which she has to drive a bit over 25 miles. A car is her connection to life outside from home. The phone is her connection to me. The school is nowhere near any other buildings, except for a few prisons (which look the same as this school). The bus would pick up my daughter at 6:00am. School starts at 7:40am. She wouldn't get home till 3:30pm, with school getting out at 2:42pm. This means she would be riding the bus for over two hours....Almost only the senior class has cars. Most of the kids I know are very responsible, most have to pay for their cars.
My daughter and most of her friends are good kids. There are actually some good, responsible teenagers "out there". My daughter has never had a date ---- by choice--- and she isn't ugly.
Telephone etiquette could be taught real fast. My daughter knows to turn her phone off in restaurants, movie theaters, hospitals, definitely in class, etc...We are living in a totally different world now...I went to an all girl school and had a blast doing so, but we also had NO restriction on what to wear, where we could go for lunch, etc...In my senior year, I was treated as an adult where I could write my own excuse for not coming to class. I was taught responsibility, certain actions caused certain consequences...I had freedom. To say it again...High School should prepare kids for life after school, for adulthood, maybe for college life....
And I still don't think cameras are necessary. To watch over teachers??? Teachers are people who make mistakes, have moods, etc...Do we need cameras everywhere we go?
The teaching environment should not be somewhere a kid HAS to go to put his/her time in, dread each day, but a place a kid would WANT to go to learn about the world, life, etc, get a good start for the rest of her/his life....

[GeorgeGuns]

And I still don't think cameras are necessary...

I have a friend that is a teacher, he could have used a camera in his class. He got called to task because he's a nice guy that will pat a kid on the shoulder gor a job well done. One of those kids told his parents that the teacher "touched" him and all heck broke loose.

Yes, I agree kids need to learn how to live in an adult world, but I don't think that means turn them loose prematurely, they still need guidance in their teens.

another post here is "have you hugged your teacher.." well don't let anyone see ya, someone will get sued for being inappropriate.

This IS a rough world, and if those measures make the kids think about why they are in place, well then they are getting an education that will serve them. jmho

[pasofantasy]

There are just the opposite, too! We had some teachers here molesting the students in their classroom several years ago. Parents might appreciate having cameras to deter that happening to their children.

Do you realize how much you're being video-taped? I used to work for a business that used the cameras. I could see the results on a screen, but I only found one of the cameras. Some of those cameras aren't that easy to spot!

As for cell phones, they're probably going to jam them here, too. Students use them to cheat. Kids in the hall can text answers to students in the classroom.

I work at high school athletic events. People try to use them, who have no business there. The other night, someone came to walk their dog there, and there's a park nearby. A man was just jogging there, that night, too. I had to send him away.

Helene, your daughter sounds very nice. I just heard some of my daughter's escapades last night, and she was a basically good kid. Do you know how many parents think their children are perfect? I've known parents deny that their children could do something, but later their children ended up in trouble with the law. In fact, I'd bet that some teachers wouldn't believe things I did.

As a wife of a teacher, besides prank phone calls and eggings, I've had a shot fired into my living room by a student when I was in there. I'd imagine, that many would think the kid a good one, attending a religious school. One year, some kids decided to put bombs in the mailboxes of coaches while they were at games.


Our society is so mobile now. Even if you know everyone in your community, a criminal can pass through there, and prey on your children. Helene, you wrote, that your daughter's school was near prisons. That may be part of the reason why it's fenced. They can lock the school if there's an escape, too!

[Helene]

Still disagree...You know, even with fences, threats, cameras...kids who WANT to do harm, cheat, or get into trouble will find a way to do so. It just makes some to "try to beat the system" even harder. You can't prevent them from being bad if they want to be....
Yes, I agree, I wouldn't want strangers to enter the school grounds, but by High School kids should already know to report suspicious people. They will encounter a lot of strangers once they graduate....
As for "schools are not for socializing. They are for learning"... Disagree there, too. School is the first place away from home. The first place where other people exist, other authority besides parents, other peers, besides siblings. Kids need to know how to deal with them. Kids need to learn tolerance, getting along with people...and to be watchful.
As to telephone use....text messaging solutions to tests? Does that not happen later, at colleges, at work, everywhere? There is so much cheating going on after school... Cheaters, sometimes, do real well, better than non cheaters. It will happen whether there are phones or not....It only gets worse, later in adulthood. Kids should be taught not to cheat. But that is pretty much a lost cause since it will be everywhere once they grow up and they probably see this at home already....
As to fences..., I mentioned them as one my "objections" only to make a point. In case of THIS school I feel it is ok, because of its proximity to the prisons. They can see several out of their windows.
My objections are really only not allowing cell phone use, not having lockers, and cameras everywhere.
As to "sexual harrassment" from other kids, sex "everywhere".... Again, kids need to be taught how to handle inappropriate advances and I don't think cameras will be much of a deterrent. It actually might give the false perception of safety and security and help putting guards down.
Teachers molesting kids...doubt that that cameras be a deterrent. Most of the teachers caught were doing it at their home or elsewhere, not at school.
Cameras are NO substitution (or aids) for proper education, background checks, information, caring teachers.
I understand that kids aren't what parents think they are. Good kids aren't always good...but neither are bad kids aways bad. When raising a kid you can only hope you give them a good, solid base for their future....Once other people (teachers and peers) come into play and they can get away from you, you can only hope you gave them that base to deal with good and bad, with temptations, how to make good choices, deal with bad ones, etc.
Treating all kids like juvenile delinquents, I don't think, is right. How can you teach trust, honesty, etc. by not trusting, repecting, etc them?
I don't think cameras are necessary...They might not only "catch" crimes. What about teachers? Don't you trust them? Do we need constant supervision of them? I just think it is a start to more and more invasion of our privacy.....Cameras in the workforce are already used to monitor a worker's work...time spent on work, telephone, etc...turning people into objects.
Anyway, I think this thread was very interesting to me, even though I am in the minority....I can see how fear rules everything. Fear and distrust of and in our young people, our teachers, our school system, etc...

[Monty]

Ok -Old Lady here - graduated high school in 1965 ! And yes it was a public high school.
We had a dress code - no short skirts("just" above the knee was ok,had to hit the knee cap)no jeans - ( girls could NOT wear pants - in cold weather - you could wear them "under" your skirt to and from school "!). No skin tight clothes,No shorts unless for gym class,no one wore hats then .
Had to turn your car keys into the office if you drove.No going to your car during the day OR leaving the campus without a written note with the Dr's appointment card !
We finally did convince school officials to allow girls to wear nice pants to football and basketball games by Senior year!
I also rode a bus twice a day when I didn't drive, over an hour ride each way . I would have my Mom's car for dental and Dr appointments - since I was 16 miles from home one way and over 25 miles from "city".
I notice all comments about the cameras - and aimed at the teacher's maybe doing something - what about the violence "against" teachers in class? And what about kids selling drugs or taking them ? Sort of hard to do with a camera everywhere . And if you think you are safe because you are in a rural area - don't kid yourself!
Kids can socialize - but school is for learning JMHO. They can chat out of class - and get together later !
As far as cell phones - unless an emergency - why do they need them at school - and then there is always the office !
One of our middle (jr high)schools has adopted a strict dress code - and the whole system will probably follow suit - they also do NOT allow those baggy pants !

[CarolU]

As much as I am a libertarian, I don't think it should apply to kids. I agree with a dress code at school. That eliminates gang colors and stops a lot of the stereotyping of poorer kids. It ends a lot of the peer pressure that our society puts on kids to wear name-brand clothes just to fit in. Just think how much better the kids would learn if the peer pressure was to succeed instead of dress nice.

I heard on NPR about a study of teenage boy's brains. They found that boys under age 17 do not have a clear sense of consequences. Of course there are individuals on either side of that, some children seem to be born wise and some men never seem to grow up, but the study was on averages. This might help to explain why teenage boys make bad decisions about guns, knives, being bullies, violence, sexual harassment in school, etc., that most of them outgrow by college.

It is also why many states have moved unsupervised driving ages up to 18.

[DebbieS]

I graduated in the 80s and it seems like things are a lot stricter now than then. I got a car in my junior year, but still chose to ride the bus on days I didn't work after school because I had to buy my own gas and I was 12 miles from town. During the 'punk rock' era (remember that?) kids had pink, purple, whatever hair. We could leave campus at lunchtime, go to our cars, had lockers, etc.

Our schools here have cameras outside the building (comes in handy if things are vandalized) and in the hallways - not in the classrooms.

My son is 13 and wants a cell-phone. I told him when he starts driving he can have one (now, THAT doesn't sound very safe :roll: ). BUT there are limits on when they can use them. They should be locked in their lockers (or cars) until after class. Hard to enforce, I know....

Helene, your daughter's school does sound very strict. Poor girl, she's almost done!

[CarolU]

Shelley's daughter was in 'lock down' in her school last year while they searched for a kid with a gun. It helped her a LOT to be able to call and talk to her mom during the ordeal. It also helped Shelley know that her daughter was okay.

I think cell phones are fine...but the same rules as any public lecture or presentaiton should apply, they should be OFF and in the kid's pack.

[Fuego]

Helene, you obviously live in a small secluded community. If you (or your children) experienced many of the public schools across this country, you'd be grateful for the school she attends instead of griping about trivial things and appreciate how well protected and safe she is while at school.

While schools may serve many purposes, public schools exist to educate children's minds. It's a parents job to prepare their children for life ( not to assume that someone else will do it for them).

Would you prefer you daughter going to a school that has daily fights ( boys and girls), gangs, rampant drug use and teenage pregnancies ( some of the the girls actually getting pregnant WHILE at school), teachers being physically attacked by students, etc...

Perhaps cameras in the classrooms are just as much for the teachers protection as the childrens. Teachers get physically attacked these days.
And what do think happens to a teacher when they are falsely accused of sexual or inappropriate conduct by a spoiled child that recieved a test score or reprimand they are unhappy about? ( yes, it does happen, because chldren KNOW that type of accuasation will get attention and they can have their revenge on the teacher). True or not, a teacher's career and life can be destroyed by a spoiled child's false allegations.

Granted, your daughter sounds like a good kid with good parenting, but that has become more the exception to the rule, then the standard these days. And while these restrictions may not be neccessary for YOUR child, it keeps her safe from the other people ( students and faculty) that don't haven't had the same type of home life or values that you have instilled into your children.

Not all parents take the time to raise their children as you did. Your daughter is being protected from the children of parents that should have been spayed and neutured, not reproducing.

Sorry, but you really should be counting your blessings that your daughter goes to such a school.