Farriers?? Just a little tender footed!

[cowboy ed]

A question for you farriers out there. I trimmed a horse's feet recently. she was way too long in the toe, especially on the front. the soles were grown out and really uneven. Apparently, I was just a bit too aggressive with the trim, so now she is just a little tenderfooted. i dont think it is bad, but I can tell by the way she is walking. After a couple of days, it is much better. Any precautions to avoid this in the future? Where is the fine line between enough and too much? I have only had this happen one other time after about 5 years of trimming my horses.

[CarolU]

She may not be nearly as tender as sore in her tendons because of the angle change. I've gotten some horses in that have never been trimmed and were pretty bad. What my farriers did was bring them down in several steps instead of one aggressive trim, so we took some off every two weeks.

I hope this helps.

[Terry Wallace]

Taking off long toes will definitely cause tenderness, as it changes angle a bit more than otherwise.... precautions...don't let the toes get that long again if possible and continue to keep the feet "policed".

You can pour some Super Hoof or other sole toughener on the soles near the toes and that will help some of the "too close" blood vessels to migrate away from the sole bottom and help it not be tender.

Another thing I have done is duct-tape a good sized old washcloth...folded in half twice..taped to bottom & sides of hoof... this will stay on about three days before it wears off...just about enough time to toughen a sore sole, or a sole that is now contacting the ground that previously wasn't at the toe...

[TrueStepPaso]

Hi Ed....did you rasp the toe callous by accident? That'll do it.

Sometimes horses need a bit more hoof wall above the toe area, too......the rule of thumb is a "fingernail's length" (a man's trimmed fingernail, NOT a woman's :lol: ) above the toe callous for protection, but I find some horses are just plain old uncomfortable with this amount & need more.

Now flare....I'll chew it off if I have to :shock:, and bring it in tight & in harmony with the rest of the hoof wall thickness in every hoof (unless its SEVERE seperation - thats another story).......but hoof wall "height" varies on every HOOF.

I hope that was explained well.......???

[cowboy ed]

yep, that makes sense. this horse came here with long toes, so i was just getting her where she needed to be.

[motorgypsy]

Just changing the angle can cause even severe lameness. I happened to us with our very upright PPR mare. I took her heels down a bit too much and she was lame for week and I mean REALLY lame. And I didn't take out any sole or remove any toe - just heel and not that much. I left her at about 58 degrees or so but it was too low for her. For the long toe I usually just back the toe up as far as I can the first trim and take off just a bit of the bottom part at the front making sure I don't pink the hoof. I leave the sole alone. Then I continue to take toe off and back it up about every week or so until I get it down to where it belongs and this way I've had no lameness.

[GeorgeGuns]

When I see a horse that is really long, I tend to not take any sole at all because what long walls do is essentially the same thing that shoes do - they keep the sole from having such full contact with the ground as its supposed to and it won't be as tough. Unless I have a hoof that obviously has tons of false sole, I leave it alone and just take the walls (and bars) down, let the horse use that flaky extra sole to gradually toughen itself as it naturally wears off the flaky stuff.

When you go from a long toe to a shorter one, it won't cause tendon pain because its the long toe that has been stressing the tendon and that shorter toe is a relief.

Dude, if ya thinks ya overdid it, ya probably did, apologize to the horse, slap some stuff on the sole to toughen it and promise you'll never do it again, ;-)

[motorgypsy]

I thought that was the case Coreen but was told by a farrier it could work either way just because of the change. But I don't see why going from a lower to a higher angle would cause lameness. It will throw one of our mares off gait though.

[GeorgeGuns]

It will throw one of our mares off gait though

That has a lot more to do with the dynamics and timing of breakover. try rolling the rears back right to the whiteline and see if she evens up, or leave just a smidge more heel in the rear - this is easy to miss esp on Col bred horses. I've got two that I am forever chasing those rear toes back.

[appyday]

yep, that makes sense. this horse came here with long toes, so i was just getting her where she needed to be.

Dont worry Ed its too far from her heart to kill her she is where she needs to be now and will be fine..

[Hollis D. Gammon]

Melt moth balls and pour it into the soles while still a liquid. You will have instant results. Rodeo cowboys do this all the time.

[CarolU]

When you go from a long toe to a shorter one, it won't cause tendon pain because its the long toe that has been stressing the tendon and that shorter toe is a relief.


I'm going to disagree Coreen. There are tendons on BOTH sides of the hoof, front and back. Yes, it will relieve the front tendon (digital extensor tendons) to reduce the toe, but it will pull the back tendons (digitial flexor tendons) to raise that fetlock up.

http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/images_info/fetlock.jpg
1. Superficial Digital Flexor Tendon
2. Cannon Bone
3. Sesamoid Bone
4. Deep Digital Flexor Tendon
5.Navicular Bone
6. Coffin Bone
7. Short Pastern, or 2nd Phalanx
8. Long Pastern, or 1st Phalanx
9. Digital Extensor Tendon
10. Fetlock Joint
11. Pastern Joint
12. Coffin Joint

Any sudden change requiring lengthening of a tendon will cause pain.

[GeorgeGuns]

Nice illustration Carol, thanks! Now lets look at where the DET attaches - at the TOP of the coffin bone. Changing the angle of the toe will affect that very very little compared to the DDFT which actually attaches about 3/4 inch behind the toe under the coffin bone, it has to go around the navicular bone and attaches on the bottom. Take a piece of tape and attach it, on the back of your hand, from your big knuckle of your finger (the one before your finger) and run it up your arm - and flex your finger. This mimics the DET. Now take that tape and attach it to the end knuckle just before your fingernail and up your arm and flex, mimics the DDFT. Feel the difference? This is why DDFT (and suspensory ligament) injuries are so darned common and sensative to angle chagnes, and DET injuries are rare and usually caused by trauma.
The next thing to consider is how that tendon works. Consider the huge range of motion a hoof goes through in a stride. The tendons can handle that!!! If they can handle that, then why are angle or toe length changes able to affect their comfort? Its how the tendon is put to use, not the range of motion. Anytime you have a condition that may put a horse landing toe first the DDFT literally does double duty. Lets see if I can do this without pictures:
1 - toe lands first, DDFT is "neutral"
2 - heel lands, DDFT is stretched (and goes behind navicular bone, keep that in mind)
3 - leg wieghts the hoof and fetlock sinks, relieves stretch on DDFT
4 - horse moves over the hoof - stretches that DDFT again
5 - breakover - DDFT goes neutral again
=====> DDFT gets worked twice in one step, and if the toe is long, it gets stretched a little too much during breakover
OR
1 - Heel lands first, DDFT is actually more neutral than stretched
2 - toe lands, but there isn't any change in the DDFT, maybe a little bitty stretch
3 - leg weights the hoof, and the DDFT starts to stretch - it starts to stretch here because the locomotion dymamics put the leg in a better position over the hoof during this phase, its fynamically more correct. With a toe first landing, the weight phase will see the leg just a little behind vertical when it starts
4 - horse moves over hoof and now the DDFT gets its stretch, once
5 - breakover - goes neutral again

Toe first landing puts a lot of wear and tear on the DDFT, wether its due to a sensative heel causing the horse to avoid landing heel first, or due to a long toe which just gets there first.

Where is the DET in all this? Heck its just doing its job, making sure the hoof is pulled forward so it can land but has almost nothing to do with wether it lands toe or heel first. That is dictated by the leg and body - why horses that are landing toe first (sore heels in this case) are so bracey through the leg, shoulder, and even the back. Now if the landing phase is made better through allowing proper heel first landing, teh DET will be doing its eencie little job better too, by default. IOW it works just fine with a toe first, but even better with a heel first.

Yes, this has been proven out, Dr Pollit spent a lot of energy and time mapping out structures and getting computerized record of the movement of the lower leg and hoof and structures.

[CarolU]

But Coreen, it is the Flexor tendon you pull when you cut down a long toed horse...that is the point. Place your hand flat on a table with your arm at a 45 degree angle to the table. Now raise your arm to 90 degrees (if you can). Where does it pull? Not the front, that tendon contracts; it pulls the back tendon. When you stand a horse up more, you pull the flexor. That is why they get sore if you overdo it. And it's easy to see it is not JUST sole change, the horse is lame even in sand or shavings.

BTW - I have seen horses with such long toes there is no break over. In fact, I have been TOLD this is how many Pasos are trained to step faster in the front is to grow their toes too long to break over, and once they're trained to 'shuffle step' then trim them correctly. They have already learned to gait without break over.

[GeorgeGuns]

Not the front, that tendon contracts; it pulls the back tendon. When you stand a horse up more

Noooooooo, tendons do not contract, period. Basic biology. When you set a horse more upright, yes, it "shortens" the tendon, but this is a relief!!! Anyone with carpal tunnel, can i hear ya say "YEAH!" The only cells in the body that are capable of contraction are muscle cells. Muscles contract, they are connected to tendons which are attached to the bone its supposed to move. Tendons are named according to the job of the muscle its attached to. Deep digital FLEXOR tendon is attached ultimately to the musles that flex that leg when the muscle contracts. Digital EXTENSOR tendon is attached to the muscle that extends the leg/hoof when it contracts. Its like tug of war - PEOPLE flex and pull on the rope, but the rope itself is not contracting. Now if you play tug of war around a corner, a sharp corner (similar to a DDFT going around the nav bone under the hoof to the toe of the coffin bone in a long toe/low hoof angle) you will have more tension on the rope than if its going around a shallow corner. I think what is confusing here is that when we say low hoof angle, our brains may compute that to a low angle that the tendon actually has to deal with. Remember that if you decrease the angle at the front, you increase it on the opposite surface!
I sure wish my scanner was working..

[TrueStepPaso]

I have to go with Coreen on this.....not only is it "common sense" to me, but after seeing diagram, after diagram, after lecture, after 're-enactments' with life-like models (oh, and after doing my Anatomy & Physiology class where I dissected a equine lower limb right down to the BONE & really saw/felt how things work - naturally & under extreme pressure - with many pathological hooves & healthy).........its just the facts.

Relieving the toe translates into relieveing the DDFT......with prolonged breakover, you are putting extreme stress on the DDFT. A long toe is "in the way".....the hoof actually stays on the ground longer than it should be, while everything else is still working properly.
Think of it this way: horse moves forward, the knee bends, the cannon bone shifts forward, now the fetlock is tilted forward, and those ligaments & tendons are flexing with the back of the limb...right down to the bottom of P3.....because the toe is longer, everything is still stretching forward, but hasn't come "off the ground" yet because of the TOE. Think of a line going from the bottom of the hoof, around the heel, and up the back of the lower leg...forming a 90 degree angle, if you will....when the horse moves forward, this closes...85, 80, 75, 70, etc...with a long toe, its lower numbers, more force.....
With a shorter relieved toe/breakover, the numbers stay higher, and the limb comes off the ground faster (no stress to DDFT). Not only that, but there's no stress on the hoof wall at the toe to cause flaring & separation.....the hoof WORST enemy.
Remember, breakover is not defined by the toe - it is the spot on the bottom of the hoof that is touching the ground when the heels first leave the ground....so imagine how awful a horse would feel if it still has two inches of toe in front of the breakover point that it has obstructing its "push off" from the ground. Kinda like if I had to wear shoes two sizes two big for me.....it would hurt my CALF muscles, not my shins.

**I hope this makes sense to someone....I SUCK at explaining things :( **