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View Full Version : Shocked . . . shaken . . . scared . . .


PasoVicki
09-28-2006, 03:41 PM
Sorry this is rather a long story, and I'm probably going to ramble because I'm still tired and stressed out.

Some of you might recall that I was concerned about Danesa a couple of weeks ago, thinking she had mastitis. However, after watching her closely for a couple of days, I was sure she didn't. Her udder wasn't swollen or hot or tender, and she *was* letting Capri nurse -- just not as much as he wanted. Since her udder only functions on one side, and he's quite big at just over 4 months, I think he was continuing to try to nurse after she was empty, and both were a little annoyed: he was pushing at her trying to get more, and she was pushing him away. They've been getting along fine, though, and I haven't seen any serious kicking or anything.

Okay, so everything was normal yesterday morning. Capri was bright eyed, running and playing. I checked briefly around mid day, and he was fine. I went down to feed last night about 5:30 -- and he was obviously NOT okay. His eyes were dull, and he kept stumbling around in circles. After a few circles, he would stagger to a halt and his back legs would shake and he'd look like he was about to fall -- then he'd pull himself together and just stand there.

I called the vet immediately, and stood there and watched until she got there. (This was the 'on-call' vet at the clinic, one of the new vets there, someone I had never met.) She got there in about 30 minutes. I spent the entire time thinking he was going to fall over dead any second.
So she got there and stood and watched him. He didn't seem quite as weak by then, but still dull eyed, circling every few minutes (Not always the same direction -- one way and then the other). Between episodes of circling, he was nibbling at the hay.

She told me her first impression, when I called, was that he had a head injury. But she said, because there wasn't a mark on him anywhere or any indication of injury, she didn't think that was the problem. She also said she didn't think he was in pain, just "confused." No diarrhea, no nose running, no blood, no marks where he might havebeen kicked. No fever that we could tell -- but she didn't even suggest taking his temperature. Nothing. Then she said she "would bet" he had West Nile virus, because West Nile causes neurological symptoms and they had had two cases in the practice in the past week. (This led to us talking in circles for several minutes about vaccinations -- I told her I had asked our regular vet three times about giving him vaccines and had been told that they don't vaccinate until six months -- and she kept saying that 4 to 6 months was a dangerous age for getting these viruses but then saying that the practice standard in not to vaccinate until 6 months because current research says earlier vaccines aren't as effective as later ones . . . ) Anyway, we got no where with the discussion except to scare me even more than I was already -- and to make me more than a little ticked off that the vet hadn't done the vaccines when I asked.

Okay, so she watches him for a while and says he needs "supportive care" -- IVs, etc, that she can't give him at our place, and she needs to make a referral to a vet hospital about an hour away. She called and made the referral, arranged for a medical hauler to pick him up, and left. She didn't do anything for him. Barely even touched him.

The medical hauler got here about 9pm. By then, I could tell he wasn't stumbling around as much, but he still wasn't normal. He had been nibbling at his hay the entire time, and he had taken water from the automatic waterer. He had also pooped normally.

The hauler took him and Danesa. He had to jump up really high into the trailer, but he followed Danesa in. (He has never been trailered before.) The on-call vet (before she left) had told us she had called the hospital, they were expecting him, and they would call us when he got there to discuss treatment, etc..

So we sit here until about 11 o'clock, and finally the vet hospital called. The vet sounded very nice, and she's obviously very experienced -- but the "on-call" vet hadn't told her ANYTHING other than that she was referring a colt with a severe neurological problem. And the hospital vet says she sees NOTHING wrong with him, other than being rather nervous about his first ride in a trailer, at night, with the highway lights and noises . . . . He's bright eyed, he's prancing around, he hasn't circled or stumbled once. So she says they're just going to watch him and see what happens.
I called this morning at six am -- and the tech who is watching him says the same. Bright eyed, running around, eating and nursing. No sign of anything wrong with him. The hospital vet is supposed to call me at 9:30 to discuss what to do. Any ideas??????? I have no clue at all.

I've never experienced anything like this before -- and Capri is my first ever foal -- but what happened sounds to me like what a person would experience when coming out of a seizure -- weak, unstable and disoriented at first, but gradually coming out of it. But what could cause a seizure -- or what else could this be???? Any help would be appreciated!!!!!!!!1
Another apology. Just realized I'm doing this in the wrong forum, but I don't have the energy to retype it.

Pasogirlz
09-28-2006, 03:47 PM
How scary! :shock: Keep us posted. I'm curious to know what it could be.

pnalley
09-28-2006, 04:14 PM
How frightening!

I bet you can rule out neurological injuries. An injury wouldn't get better with-out support. I have one w/ that type injury it's pretty rough.

Are they doing blood work?

Keep us posted.

Terry Wallace
09-28-2006, 04:20 PM
Did they do any blood work? What did it reveal?

What your vet said about vaccinations is true and correct. Did the dam recieve a WNV AND the rest of the encephalitis shots, EEE WEE & tetanus when she was about six weeks out from foalinf him? Did she have the antibodies to pass in her colostrum?

Yes..it sounded like some type of encephalitis...which is what WNV and the rest really are..they swell the brain and cause disorientation...OR...could he have reached a toxic weed and eaten it..milkweed, locoweed, gypsum weed..that could have caused this obvious disorientation?

An injury anywhere along the spine could cause such sysmptoms...and you might not neccessarily see the injury...

CarolU
09-28-2006, 04:31 PM
Oh Vicki!! That is scary. Yes, it sounds neurological to me too.

I agree with Terry...many head injuries will act this way, and you don't have to see any other signs. If they're playing and bounce into a wall or pole you may see nothing. I saw a colt do this same thing, even quit nursing, and then bounce back and be fine.

I hope he continues to recover and it is not any of the encephylitis viruses..they're all so nasty.

Figners and toes crossed here for you...keep us informed.

PasoJoy
09-28-2006, 04:43 PM
Could mom have bonked him in the head for being pushy?? :(

PasoVicki
09-28-2006, 05:08 PM
Just got off the phone with the hospital vet. They did a blood test -- white blood count and red blood count are "absolutely perfectly normal." She said if something viral or bacterial were developing, the counts should be abnormal, and she is sure it isn't West Nile and doesn't recommend bothering to test him for West Nile.
Danesa had all her vaccines (including West Nile) about six weeks before he was born. He had an antibody test the day after he was born, and he "passed with flying colors."
The vet said he's fine this morning -- acting perfectly well and normal. He's stressed from being in strange surroundings, though, and she thinks he will be better off at home. So the medical hauler is supposed to bring him home later today.
I'm still scared. The idea of him going downhill again and us having to repeat last night's experiences (or worse) makes me sick to my stomach.

Terry Wallace
09-28-2006, 05:12 PM
I bet he will be fine.... he very likely could have hit his own head.... good bloodwork means I would not worry too much... Yep, I'd get him home so he won't get nervous and stressed from being pulled away from mom....

Horses..."the adventure"

appyday
09-28-2006, 06:11 PM
WOW how scary...good luck...

PasoVicki
09-28-2006, 07:10 PM
Well, he's home. He's looking a little unsteady (not unexpected, considering that he just spent about an hour in a trailer) and not quite as bright eyed and energetic as normal (again, probably not unusual considering he just got out of the trailer), but he does look a lot better than he did last night, when I thought he was going to crash to the ground and die any second.
You'll have to forgive me if I keep coming on line and fretting and worrying. That was one scary experience -- and I'm not confident it's over yet.

Jasfino
09-28-2006, 07:27 PM
I would think if it were WN that he would have had an elevated temp.?

I have been there. Its not easy. I hope he gets better soon.

baileyholc
09-28-2006, 07:39 PM
I think he knocked himself silly just before you came in, just to scare you coase you have been worried about other things. Anyway, I am glad he is alright and he is back home. :hug

Carol Nelson
09-28-2006, 07:46 PM
I gotta agree with Bailey...I think he knocked himself silly one way or another...or perhaps mama knocked him into the wall...
Our colt, Devante, one time came running full speed into his shelter in a rain storm, slipped and bamm...went head first into the back wall. Luckily it was only a tin shelter but it still disoriented him for awhile. He's fine today, although I always wonder if that's why his eyes seem so spaced far apart. He looks like he hit a Mac truck! I tell everyone it's because his brain is so huge...he's so smart! :lol:

(in all seriousness though...he was fine in a day or so just like your little one...they are so resilient when they are young! :smile: )

Edurne
09-28-2006, 09:20 PM
Must say that I am extremely surprised that the vet didn't do any bloodworkup before sending him to hospital. I wouldn't be very pleased and certainly it seems to be a lot less vet support than we get here (including i.v.s when required).

lovetogait
09-28-2006, 10:48 PM
In the absence of any indication from the bloodwork, it sounds as if it was a bang on the head. I have had that happen with a baby and he recovered in a few hours and was quickly back to being obnoxious. Doesn't sound as if the oncall vet was really on the ball. Sometimes when they first get out of vet school they are not very experienced. I would definitely talk to your regular vet about it and tell them that this cost you a lot of money unnecessarily.

Hope he's fine from here on out!

PasoVicki
09-28-2006, 11:08 PM
Considering the emergency visit from the on-call vet, two trips in the medical hauler, and a night (for two) at the hospital, this should go on record as one of the most expensive blood tests in history.
I'm still not feeling confident that he's completely recovered. No more circling or stumbling -- but he's not as alert/energetic as normal. Maybe it just takes a while, and he'll gradually become more like his old self . . . but I can't help feeling just a little "abandoned" by the veterinary profession. The on-call vet really didn't do anything (other than make the referral, of course) and rushed off to another case. (To give her some credit, she said she had three colic calls come in within just a few minutes of my call, and she came to see Capri first.) The vet at the hospital was very nice and seemed very experienced, but she didn't do anything but the blood counts . . . and sent him home with a "if you have any more problems, call me." Which is all very well and good, and I know he is less stressed here, but if he suddenly goes downhill again, we have to go through the transporting all over again.
I'm sorry . . . I'm whining now. I didn't sleep much last night, and I'm almost afraid to go to bed tonight.

Helene
09-28-2006, 11:22 PM
I, too, am very surprised at the first vet's actions. She didn't even take his temperature? I, also, would have suspected her to take blood tests. That she had other emergencies is no excuse. She was there and should have made a thourough evaluation, examined his gums, touched him all over...looked in his eyes and in his ears for parasites (they could cause an imbalance)....
I would try not to worry too much, but would watch him...as long as he eats, drinks, has no temperature, poops, pees, doesn't stay down, etc...he should be alright.
I hope he'll be is "own self" tomorrow!

Tami Pinell
09-29-2006, 12:12 AM
PasoVicki - What I am about to say is from my experience and not from a vet... so take it as it is. I have had a LOT of babies here and some foals that get a tummy ache act as if they are dying... they can't walk right, they walk in circles, they keep their head low, they just plain look like they are going to kick right over, some lay down, some just try to walk it off, some stand and stomp or kick at the air, they do all sorts of really weird things. What I have seen is that they eat something or roll funny or do something foals do and get a hurt - since they have NEVER felt that type of discomfort they act unlike an adult horse would. Do you have a salt block where this foal can get to it? This has happened to me several times when a youngster decides that the salt taste good - they eat enough to make them have an upset stomach but not enough to make bloodwork show anything - they act really as if they are dying.
Smell his breath - does it stink? If so he may have an upset stomach.

Abejita
09-29-2006, 12:41 AM
She didn't even take his temperature? I, also, would have suspected her to take blood tests. That she had other emergencies is no excuse. She was there and should have made a thourough evaluation, examined his gums, touched him all over...looked in his eyes and in his ears for parasites (they could cause an imbalance)....

I agree with this except there was no reason for her to draw blood if she was sending the foal to the clinic right away UNLESS your vets can run their own bloodwork as opposed to sending it out and waiting for results.If they do their own blood work then you draw it and can see if there are any changes when the horse gets to the hospital. A temp, heart rate and respiration, gut sounds are all basic..THEN you make a decision about a hospital.In a case where it may be a newer vet (as in newly out of school?) that has never seen something like this ,for her to advise hospital is a good thing Rather than your horse being her test dummy (but yes she should have still done a basic exam so the hospital staff had stats to compare)

I hope all stays well with him ..and make sure to take care of yourself..

Moniece Dickerson
09-29-2006, 12:50 AM
I am just SO SUPER happy that he is going to be fine!!!!!!Sorry you had to go through so much stress and sleepless nights,I SO remember how that felt.Please do keep us updated forsure!!Your friend,Moniece

PasoVicki
09-29-2006, 01:56 AM
Tami -- His breath doesn't smell bad now, but I didn't think to sniff it last night. I *did* look at his gums before the vet got here (they looked normal to me) so I might (?) have noticed if there was an unusual stench. The on-call vet barely touched him -- no exam, no temperature, nothing. The hospital vet told me basically the same thing you just said about foals and pain; she felt a bad bump on the head was most likely.
(Oh, and he does have access to a salt/mineral block, but it's been there since he was born. I've seen him lick it periodically over the months but never abuse it.)

I also agree with the comment about not wanting an inexperienced vet to use my baby to practice on . . . but I still think a basic exam should have been performed. I haven't seen her bill yet (she said she would mail it) but I have a strong feeling there's going to be a charge on it for an "exam" -- and she only looked at him (from a bit of distance at that).

Thanks for all the good wishes, everyone. He still seems to be holding his own. He's eating, drinking, peeing, pooping, and moving around fairly normally (if at a somewhat reduced speed). He still doesn't look quite himself . . . but I'm hoping he'll be more himself by morning.

appyday
09-29-2006, 02:18 AM
Good luck...update us in the am..

Terry Wallace
09-29-2006, 12:46 PM
How is he doing today Vicki? I hope he has "snapped out of it" ...and doing fine.....

CarolU
09-29-2006, 12:53 PM
Yes Vicki, how is he this morning? I'm with all in praying he is fine now.

I think horses are born to make us worry. Mine keep me upset most of the time, it's always something.

GeorgeGuns
09-29-2006, 03:38 PM
Gosh Vicki, what an ordeal!

I agree, a late day visit means it would take at least 24 hours to get bloodwork back unless they can run it in to the office and do it.

This doesn't sound viral because it cleared on its own too quickly. The first line of treatment for suspected viral encephalitis is steroids and anti-inflammatories. He didn't get them, if it were an encephalitis, it would have done him in by now. WNV also escalates very quickly and if treatment isn't done quickly you soon have a recumbent horse that probably won't make it. So count that out. WNV also doesn't cause fever, in fact it can have a lower than normal temp associated with the onset of symptoms.

I'm wondering about a few things: wobbler or pinched nerve, inner ear trouble (a little bug bite that may have abcessed and busted?) and of course head trauma - now if he got bonked right in the top of hid head there wouldn't have to be a mark, its a very vulnerable spot! I had the pleasure (not) of watching Indi whack her head and while it wasn't enough to take her down she sure was crosseyed and wobbly for some time. These head whacks can cause anything from a mild "seeing stars" like Indi did, to seizures, to pretty instant death. I'd feel around between his ears and see if he has a tender spot - may not have a mark or any swelling at all, but might be unhappy about it. I'd also stick him on some MSM or really low dose bute for a week in case he has some residual swelling in his head that may worsen if not prevented now.

And I'd write down everything you can think of for details and call an equine neuro specialist! Keepus posted, i feel for ya!

Brigitte
09-29-2006, 04:28 PM
That must have been scary for you! I'm glad to hear he's back home, keep us updated