What is wrong with kids today?

[baileyholc]

http://www.greenvillenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060928/NEWS01/60928019

My daughter goes to this school. She said the Officer tried to protect himself after the first blow to the face. The second blow is what broke the officers nose.

[Linda Y]

You know, I had a reply all planned out but decided not to say it. It would just get me jumped on.

[Heidi]

I'll say it. Parents aren't parenting.

This is not to say that ALL parents are bad, just many of them, IMO. We have children having children much too young. They barely have life-skills, let alone the maturity to parent. No one is held accountable anymore...oh, it isn't your fault ________ made you do this. Pucky!
Face the consequences of your actions and stop trying to hide behind excuses.

[PasoPerson]

Bad parenting is to blame in many cases, I'll agree. However, my hubby and I are definitely NOT bad parents ... yet my 16-year-old son is a complete jerk. He doesn't care about anything or anyone except himself. And my 12-year-old daughter is taking after him more each day.

I blame a lot of the kids' behavior on the fact there are no moral absolutes anymore - no fear of God, no respect for those in authority (teachers, cops, parents or any others), no spanking ("or I'll report you"), teachers cannot reprimand much less spank. And of course, the great programs on TV do their part, almost as much as the vulgar, thought-provoking music of choice these days.

[Heidi]

I blame a lot of the kids' behavior on the fact there are no moral absolutes anymore - no fear of God, no respect for those in authority (teachers, cops, parents or any others), no spanking ("or I'll report you"), teachers cannot reprimand much less spank. And of course, the great programs on TV do their part, almost as much as the vulgar, thought-provoking music of choice these days.
Oh boy, have you nailed it!

[Jasfino]

I blame a lot of the kids' behavior on the fact there are no moral absolutes anymore - no fear of God, no respect for those in authority (teachers, cops, parents or any others), no spanking ("or I'll report you"), teachers cannot reprimand much less spank. And of course, the great programs on TV do their part, almost as much as the vulgar, thought-provoking music of choice these days.

I agree totally.

[Minouri]

I have to agree with the lack of fear of anything in general being the cause. My parents never hit me nor did my teachers but I always believed they COULD. Remember the days when you walked down the street and strangers could correct your behavior and no one thought it was wrong? I'd get home and neighbors would have already called my mother to tell her where I was hanging out and with who. Today there would be a lawsuit in there somewhere or at least a harassment charge.

But I DO meet so many wonderful parents every year that you can't make a blanket statement about them. Society tied the hands of all authority figures a while back.....parents, teachers, community members.....now the power falls onto the police. We didn't need police in the schools when kids still thought a crazy teacher could throw an eraser at his head and get away with it (That's my husband's favorite story of a teacher telling him to shut up in class one day. He said it worked really well. AND he was grounded when he got home because the teacher had already spoken to his parents about the incident.) Dare I say spanked?

We don't spank in our household but I'm very strict with their things. I've got no qualms about picking up a trash bag and throwing their stuff out. Works really well. I'm sure someday someone will pass a law that says that parents have no right to throw away a toy even if it is left in the living room for a week and that the consequence will be buying the child all new toys and paying him for his trauma. But for now it works here.

And in this crazy world......I know I probably shouldn't mention this....but the battle we are having with Tony's ex wife is over First Communion. The child is already Baptised. His cousin is in classes now and is making her fist communition this year. We thought it would be nice to have them do it together. Wow, this opened quite a can of worms with the ex wife. She doesn't want us to have him on Sundays now because we might bring him to church.

I'm not a person to push a specific religion down someone's throat....I think most religions provide children with a structure to understand authority and right and wrong.

We might have to battle this one out in court. She is now trying to block visitations over this issue. That just seems so sad to me. In the days of dead beat dads who don't want to take their children, we're going to waste our home improvement money on fighting over Tony wanting to take his child to church. I could see if he wanted to take him to a bar.......or a racetrack every Sunday.

It IS a crazy upside down world we live in today.

[Terri]

She doesn't want us to have him on Sundays now because we might bring him to church. :shock:
But you never know, this could work in your favor, he might end up being one of those teenagers that rebells against mom by going to church.

I agree with everything you said Ruth, except I would substitute the word respect for fear. Growing up I was not physically punished much but I believed the adults were adults and would enforce the boundaries they set and that they were all "in it" together. Somewhere in the back of my brain I knew the adults were looking out for me. Not that there weren't "bad" parents back then too, there where and there where plenty of them. But it seems today that the message sent to kids through the media is that adults are in general "goofs" that need kids to set things right.

I think kids need to believe the grown ups are in charge and are looking out for them. Also I see a lot of young parents today that haven't really "grown up". These parents don't seem to know that they need to put the needs of their children 1st before their own selffullment. They put their careers, big houses, SUVs, or need for sexual fullfillment head of the emotional needs of their children. Why should the kids respect them? To me, when you say we're going to waste our home improvement money on fighting over Tony wanting to take his child to church that is an example of how parents sacrifice for the good of their children. You and Tony are good parents.

[jmtw]

Why do you relate religion with good parenting?
Are you saying if the parents are not religious, then they're bad?
Just curious.

[baileyholc]

Minouri, My ex was upset that he didn't get to come to the babtisum. Even though the girls had envited him. Then he tried to take my oldest using the excuse that she wants to go to college she needs to go to High school here ruteen. Witch did not fly eather, he actually wanted to make sure that she didn't go to a chatholic church. Well, NOT HAPPENING. The girl was confirmed and my youngest will be confermed this year. Were is his wanting to be a father to my youngest ruteen.

As for parenting, My girls get thing taken from them things they want to do or have in their rooms or what ever. They loose all privilages including computer time inless it has something to do with homework then I get to watch them do it. They hate that. If they want, say like their cell phone, they have to work for it. So far it has been working. Right now I have the problem of Tina wanting to disrespect her strings teacher because she doesn't want to play the chello. Not happening in my life time. I was raised to respect my elders and I insist that my girls do the same. If Tina want to get out of playing the chello she will have to make an A in this class because she is already commited to it for this semester. If she makes the A then I will sighn for her to take another class next semester. Untill them she better get her butt in gear.

My girls do and better say yes mam or no mam ect. or their butts are grass. They now this and I won't have it any other way. I was alway told that the apples don't fall far from the tree. Well, the way I take this saying is the child will do as the parent does.

According to Kathy this kid (Moses) was the best player on Hillcrest Football team. She said "Oh well, they haven't won a game yet this season."

[Terri]

I did not necessarily say religion = good parents, I know plenty of examples that isn't true. What is true is that parents willing to sacrifice their own wants (ie home improvements) for what they precieve to be the best interest of the child, in this case a chance at a good faith based foundation, tend to be good parents. On a side note, I do believe a good faith based anchor to the life decisions we all make is a good thing.

[Heidi]

Why do you relate religion with good parenting?
Are you saying if the parents are not religious, then they're bad?
Just curious.
I view it more as looking out for spiritual development for the child, but MOSTLY for me, it is that religious teachings are about generosity, good morals and character building lessons on ways to live your life...not only in the eyes of God, but in the eyes of society. (following the rules and 'governing' your own actions accordingly)

[Linda Y]

I blame a lot of the kids' behavior on the fact there are no moral absolutes anymore - no fear of God, no respect for those in authority (teachers, cops, parents or any others), no spanking ("or I'll report you"), teachers cannot reprimand much less spank. And of course, the great programs on TV do their part, almost as much as the vulgar, thought-provoking music of choice these days.

Thank you for saying it. No responsibility, no repercussions for doing the wrong thing. People having babies by multiple partners and not even bothering to get married.
The world is headed in a scary direction.

[Rusel]

Pasoperson has my vote.... but you can go back even further when the cost of living went so high that both parents had to go to work to support the family... Hence new parenting, the TV... and what sells on TV, violence. Kids today are so immune to death and violence because they have had it drummed into them everyday of their lives. So it's no big thing, "we all die sooner or later" is the going mentality.

How many people will show empathy when they see an animal being killed needlessly.... and show no reaction whatsoever when they see a human being shot to death... Violence, over and over, desensitize (where is the spell check key.!!!) the reaction to the brain. The same as a young child in an abusive home will learn to mentally leave her body so that she does not have to deal with the situtation. We block the emotional impact from the visual input to protect effects on the physical body. This results in an inability for our brains to accurately register the sight on our learned morality standards. "If it doesn't raise an emotion it doesn't raise the morality flag for comparison and judgement"

Kids hear their parents everyday complain about how difficult today's life is. Parents complain about no jobs, politics, no money, corruption and the ever show of greed. Living in the dredges cannot promote an environment for a healthy culture. And the cure starts in education. And I don't mean school. I mean teaching what values are, communication, respect, compassion and sharing. And we need to start with the oldest generation and work our way down.

Off my soapbox...... onto another .... "Wehers my txte eitdor..??"

[Helene]

I think "time" is one of the reasons kids are the way they are nowadays. We, as parents, think we are doing great when we give our kids everything money can buy, lots of freedom, etc....But I think, "face time" with your kid is much, much more important. How many kids, nowadays, have both parents available at all times? How many parents really do KNOW their kids? I understand some kids have parents who HAVE to work, like single parents. I feel bad for both parent and kids for missing important time together and most are trying to do their best, I think.
Kids are so impressionable and need immense amounts of attention. They NEED a role model and it is usually, at first, the parent and so it should be. Once they are teenagers, the "boat is LOOONG gone"...too late. It starts in infancy....kids need huge amounts of time. Teenagers, also need huge amounts of time.....face, talking, time, not taking them to a classes, courses, activities. Discussions, exchange of opinions, letting feelings be known....teach them about finances, about parenting, about yourself, your limits, your dreams.....get to KNOW your kids. Let them get to know YOU, the parent.
Kids need role models and usually parents are the first ones! They need to be able to learn that every action, every choice has some consequence, good or bad. But who is teaching that to them? The babysitter? Friends? Teachers? It should be the parent. That's the first person that is responsible for that kid. Consistency is very important.
Yes, you can blame TV, teachers, music, environment for bad kids....BUT if those kids had someone they could talk to, be listened to, I think the effects of such things could be minimized up to a certain age (after which it is useless...once they are teenagers it's too late). I think nowadays it is very hard to raise kids and to be a kid. Too many influences, temptations....All you can do, as a parent, is give them TIME, respect, trust, guidance, a good basis, then it is up to them to make their choices. They need to learn that each choice has a consequence, good or bad and it could come from anywhere, not just a from a parent.

[Blair]

I must say you all have great points. We have a 12 yo daughter who thinks she is 20. We are fairly strict about certain things and so far they are working. There are only 2 TV's in the house and none are watched during the week. She only gets TV time on the weekend and since she is playing soccer, has horses to ride and care for, etc... she never really watches TV. I have real issues with some of my friends kids that have TV/DVD/X-boxes etc IN THEIR OWN ROOM. A parent should know what the kid is up to and yes, it does take away from your time but IT IS THE JOB OF THE PARENT.

My husband and I both work and communte. Our daughter volunteers after school at the elementary school (they get out later) and then a teacher/neighbor brings her home about an hour before one of us gets home. SHe has to have her homework done or almost done by the time we get home and all homework is in the kitchen or on the family computer which is in the office next to the kitchen. This way we are always discussing what she is doing, how classes are going, what projects are coming up, etc. She wants to do her homework in her room but we don't allow it - we need the face time with her.

She recently was more than peeved with us over a couple of things.....we won't let her roam our small town with her friends after school and we won't give her a password for IM yet. We have to sign her in to her IM program and approve the conversation. We also reserve the right to audit her emails and have access to the account. Many will probably think that we are too intrusive but I will argue back that the technology out there is great but also dangerous.....a parent must monitor the activities of the child and keep them on course. I hear the arguement that her friends get to do it (whatever it is) and my own childhood flashes back in deja vue! My parents had no problem saying "it doesn't matter what they do, what matters is what we do and our rules" and now I say it with the same conviction. I am not here to be her best friend, I am a parent and that is a much tougher job. So far it works and she is still very good at being open with us. We are no perfect and I know there are some tougher years coming and we will make mistakes!!!


Ok, enough preaching to the choir - it just struck a chord with me!
Blair

[Carol Nelson]

Just one comment...you all are coming up with great points...but my point is...WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH FEAR????
I was scared to death of my parents...and they seldom ever laid a hand on me. But I knew that they could and they would if I gave them a reason to.
And I passed that on to my daughter. She told me once..."Mom, I knew that if I ever got arrested, there was nothing...NOTHING...the police could do to me that was going to be as bad as what you would do to me when I got home!" Yeah...that came from MY parents, through me.
And don't get me wrong, I came from a very loving, very traditional, very Christian family. I never came home p.g., and neither did my daughter....I never got into trouble with the law...and neither did she. I never did drugs...and neither did she.
She told me just lately, "You know, Mom, I'm STILL scared of you." Half laughing, but half serious. She is 23 years old now and towers over me.
But you want to know something else...she is in graduate school with her Bachelor's degree in Psychology, studying for her Masters, and her ultimate goal is her Ph.D.
Gee...maybe I did something right. ;-)

(another thing I did with her is I gave her a determined, unswayable sense of self....could have something else to do with what she is today.)

[Helene]

Yes, Carol. Both of my kids are SCARED of me, too. My daughter just recently told me she can tell by the way I look at her what I am thinking, when I am angry with her....and I haven't spanked my kids in years. I did when they were too little to understand that each action has a consequence, good or bad. I actually, have not had to use any punishment in ages. No need to. They feel bad enough already when something goes wrong. It's like getting a ticket after having an accident. I think that stinks. "Double punishment and it was an accident, no intent".
Last year, my daughter called me from school to ask permission from me to skip a class. I talked with her and said....if she wants to, fine with me, but she should think about the consequences of missing important material in class, what would the teacher think, etc. She decided to go to class. Of course, the girl that wanted her to miss the class made fun of her for "calling Mom to ditch". My daughter was fine with that and I was proud of her!!!
I don't have many rules, either. They can watch whatever they want, listen to any music they want, stay out as long as they want (as long as I know where and with whom) etc...BUT I also have the right to check on them any time I want. We then usually discuss their choices... at times we have "dissected" lyrics to songs, websites, movies, news, etc....Then they can make the choice to continue listening, watching, etc. if they still want to. They understand that I respect them and their tastes. I trust them to make good choices. And they have mostly, so far. I have found the more you forbid something, the more they want to rebel and then the lies start, etc. I remember how disgusted I was when my 12 year old son brought home CDs of "Papa Roach" and "Limp Biskit"....My first instinct was..."what the h...No way can you play that in my house!"... Well, I controlled myself, sat down, started reading the lyrics with him and then talked with my son about them. He had no idea. He said he liked the beat. He listened to the music only a few more times...and he was done with it in no time. He never tried to hide listening to this kind of music even though he knew I disapproved.
I talk about everything with my kids...sex, we started around 8 or earlier or so...when they were still very embarrassed. I just had a talk with my now almost 18 year old son who is dating a very nice young lady. He wanted to talk with me, not his dad, as I suggested initially. I had the same talk with my 17 year old girl who is now also dating a very nice young man. Both were very open and we discussed consequences that certain choices might have.
They know of all of our finances and why we make certain choices. They know we respect their privacy. I never enter their rooms without their permission or their websites. But they invite me in, ask me to get something from their room (like dirty clothes), ask me about my opinion of their web design....etc. They trust me and I trust them. I did tell them, though, if they do anything to destroy my trust, it would be hard to re-establish it again....I don't have many rules, because it brings out fear of punishment, which leads to lies, to distrust, to loss of respect, etc.
By the time they are teenagers...it's too late to correct them. I gave them the basics and now hope they have had good enough "groundwork" to make up their own minds. And I have a little advantage...two kids, close in age, who care about one another and will let me know if there's a problem, so we can deal with it real fast.
Back to "spending time" with the kids...in a way they are like horses. The more you spend time with them the better the horse is. We are mammals....the only mammals that see nothing wrong with handing over their young to a stranger to raise before the young can feed itself. The mare teaches the foal about life. Shouldn't a human mother teach its young? Some need more encouragement, more discipline than others....some need more time, than others....How will you know when you don't know your child????

[Minouri]

I suppose everyone has their own definition of "fearing" your parents. None of what I'm talking about involves abuse or terror. But I remember a vein that would pop up on my father's forehead sometimes.....and he'd get really quiet and just look at me till I fessed up. I would be shaking in my boots, not from terror.....but fear/respect. Whatever you want to call it. I don't consider that a bad thing.

For me, religion provided me with a foundation for understanding right and wrong. That doesn't mean that I blindily agree with everything the church says. It also doesn't mean that you can't give your children the same foundation without religion. It has just always been a part of my family and has given us both comfort and guidance. Why wouldn't I want to share that part of my life with my stepchildren? My husband is a church going man and feels the same way.

Terri, I always like your outlook on things. You're a great one for putting things in perspective. Investing rather than wasting.....it's all a matter of how you look at the money we end up spending on our children.

[andrea]

Pasoperson, give you children some time. They will grow up and become responsible adults some day. Growing up is very hard to do in this day and age.

I do believe religon has alot to do with helping in raising a child. It gives them guidelines and values they will never forget. Also keeping them in church give them other teenagers to relate to that has the same emotional feelings that they are having.

I feel that love has alot to do with raising them also. A child needs to know they are loved even though they are not living up to our adult standards. Always tell them that you love them. Hug them and let them know you will always be there for them.

I can not say I was the best parent. But I tried very hard. I was married very young and it was children raising children. My three children are all over 29 now and I am very proud of them.

My son that is having the problems with his child was the worst to raise. From the age of 15 to 22. He is 29 now and the best father you could ask for. He is going back to school to becomes a teen Christian counsilor. They will grow up and make you proud someday.

Has anyone ever seen the report on Health channel on the developement of the brain in teens? It was a few years ago that I watched this. They said if I remember correctly, the mature portain of the brain does not develope till they are around 25. Otherwords the brain thinks all together differently as a teen until it matures. So how in the world can us parents understand them?

Hang in there all you parents of teenagers. It does get better. And they will love you for all the guidelines and values you have instilled into them.
And for your forgiving love.

[motorgypsy]

Please do consider how many kids go to the high school Mary mentioned and how few would EVER do what this one kid did. Yes it was terrible but most kids are decent reasonable ethical and responsible. A few are not and they are the ones the media focuses on. We went to a birthday party of about 21 five year olds and were astonished at how well these kids behaved and how reasonable and well mannered they were. They shared. They obeyed reasonable requests with arguement and they were very interesting.

Regarding religion - it can be good or bad. One of the worst kids I've ever taught came from an extremely strict religious family. As a young adult her brother murdered a guy. She wasn't allowed to date but still managed to fool around with almost every guy in the school.

Love, kindness and respect from parent to the child and boundaries a child understands - rules that make sense and don't change - discipline when it is needed and that fits the infraction all these make a child feel safe and happy. Moral and ethical parents regardless of religion have moral and ethical kids in most all cases.

But just like horses there are some kids who despite the best parenting, don't do well in life and may even be very nasty individuals but you surely can't judge them as teens. By 11th and 12th grade they become semihuman again after the 8th grade meltdown but they do grow up. And some people really are very bad at parenting. Why we spend so much time on history and none on parenting skills in school I'll never know. There are so many things that are so essential in life that are left to the parents to teach but many parents don't know how to teach them. Very DUMB!!!

But if you think kids are bad now - take a littlle trip back to the 70's. Now that really was a time of chaos. But I'll leave that for another time!

[Heidi]

...take a littlle trip back to the 70's.
The 70s? That was the psychadelic age...I don't think anyone remembers anything.

[motorgypsy]

And do you know what is really bad??? Many of the hippies from that era are still hippies today - just older. It was wild!!! Kids would smoke dope in their cars in the school parking lot and come to class totally zonked and the smell was unreal. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Ginger]

babtisum

Ok, I just woke up with a dance hangover, and I haven't peed yet... bailey, I'm sending you a bill for my chair. That's absolutely hilarious!

[cowboy ed]

just "fonix" at work again.......

[Barbwire]

I've been reading this thread with some interest. Some of it makes sense to me, a lot of it just scares me, and some of it, well, kinda irritates me. In any case, I am fortunate enough to have an 8 year old son that loves, respects, and obeys his parents, well mostly.

Garrett has a little girl friend that he only sees about twice a year. They have known each other for years, and from day one, Alexis has been in charge. She tells him where they are going, what they are doing, and when he can speak.

Yesterday, they spent some time together for the frist time in a year and it was the same old same old. He followed her around like a well trained pup, and she had him on the run for most of the night. He was sweating up a storm and had his tongue hanging out trying to keep up with her, but had a HUGE smile on his face the entire time.

I noticed he had started to limp, (he has a club foot and it pains him some when he overworks it) and I called him to come sit with me and take a breather. He told me he had to ask Alexis if he could. Yep, I think he's going to make some girl a fine husband some day. ;-)


He is still saving himself for me right? :lol: By the time he is eighteen, she should have him just the way I like them. ;-)

[Blameitonbrio]

Yep...Garrett has figured out the secret to happiness....well done Barb!
:lol:

[Monty]

Who knows what goes through some kids minds -

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=506970

[pasofantasy]

Way to go, Barb! I've often wondered about the mothers of little boys. They've got these young men to shape for relationships with women. Some woman will thank you in the future. Congratulations on a nice son! BTW Love his name!

[Rusel]

Ah puppy Love... isn't it wonderful... but hopefully as he matures he'll also learn that it is okay to lead, not dominate, as well as follow....

Balance for both genders.... not like the TV shows putting the guys down in order to build the gals up.... even the commericals are cutting our guys up and making them look like fools.... If they did that to the gals now there would be screaming for hours and shows would be canceled.

I'm all for women getting ahead... but not at the price of emasculating the men.... I'm a cultural kind of gal that likes equality of the sexes and respect for both....