Largo Race preliminary poll - out of gait - vote again

[motorgypsy]

I redid this and posted it under paso chit chat

[Mellifluous]

Can we add elimination after 3 strikes to the list, please?

[motorgypsy]

I deleted the wrong one - oops - I'll add it!

[pasofantasy]

How about continue with a timed penalty?

[Mellifluous]

How about continue with a timed penalty?

That is too much of a hassle. We can't have every horse with a person and a stopwatch assigned to it. At best, we have one person watching 3 or so horses. We need solutions that do not require a gob of people in center ring. I also think that it is important that JUDGES be the one that make the "out of gait" call.

[pasofantasy]

I'm only thinking of safety! That's why I never raced my late largo stud in the ring. We only met one or two, that might have beat him. His half brother was injured in a largo race!

[Heidi]

3x you're OUT!

I'd recommend NOT stopping during the race. If a horse breaks gait, they need to be brought back to gait. I'd say that anything more than a few strides to bring them back into gait and they need to be eliminated.

I don't think a time penalty will work in this instance because none of the racers are timed. Now, if they raced individually with an electric eye at start/finish like barrel racers or timed stadium jumping, sure.

This will need to be a visual call. Breaking gait means cantering, correct? How do the STB racers deal with horses in sulky races breaking gait? The first over the finish line wins, but I bet horses who broke gait, even once during the race, aren't allowed the win.

[motorgypsy]

Where's Barbwire???? I bet she knows!

The thing is - standardbreds are slower when they break gait so they don't win. Our guys are frequently faster in canter or gallop.

I wish we could do a timed penalty but I also think it's too complicated. I do like the one lap on the rail though for let's say three strides out of gait.

[CarolU]

My choice isn't there. You stop and fix gait yourself, then proceed. If you're out of gait more then five strides you're DQ'd. Period.

Just HOW is anyone going to keep track of how many breaks of gait there are for 8 horses racing at once? Think about it...you can't. Hell, they can't even keep track of laps!!!

[motorgypsy]

Stopping is too dangerous BUT you could go to the rail and go back in gait and any rider who keeps a horse in the "race lane" while out of gait would be DQ'd. That would make judging a lot easier. The minute your horse breaks gait (like one hop) you are either instantly back in gait or go to the rail until they are back in gait. None of this canter half way around stuff n the race lane.

[pasofantasy]

...Just HOW is anyone going to keep track of how many breaks of gait there are for 8 horses racing at once? Think about it...you can't. heck, they can't even keep track of laps!!!

Well said!


Here is an idea: :idea:

Forget about all of the stopping stuff, it is a pain in the butt for the riders and horses. How about a 2 or 3 stike system. If you break gait that amount of times, your watcher calls you on it and you must safely pull your horse into the center of the ring and are effectively out of the race...

What we did in Las Vegas worked pretty well, if you were out of gait, you fixed it. If you stayed out of gait you were DQ'd. That's pretty simple.

These certainly sound safer.

Here's something to ponder! What if we have a really fast horse, that places, but never broke when the others did?

[motorgypsy]

check out the new choices

[CarolU]

MG's, you move to the outside, you're going to disturb more horses than fixing the gait right there and proceeding.

But we really HAVE TO get rid of this 3 strikes idea. Who will keep track of that? If you have a five stride rule, then the judges/stewards know the rider did nothing to fix it and should DQ the horse, otherwise you'll have people cantering the entire race.

[Mellifluous]

Ok, I will agree with the 3 strikes biting it. It sounded good at first blush.

[CarolU]

Okay, and it has to be more then one stride, say five strides or 1/4 lap or something. It takes a second to catch and fix.

[motorgypsy]

OK check the new choices out. I put a five strides and you're out as a choice.

[Candice Burger]

can't canter in a largo race and win. Common sense. Might want to play with that.

[motorgypsy]

To me the ONLY safe place you can stop for a penalty is the center of the ring. I prefer moving to the rail, fixing gait while moving and safely reentering the flow.

[motorgypsy]

Yeah we're trying Candice. Any suggestions to get the horses back in gait with penalty other than the ones in the list???

[stratton]

I know in Speed Racking classes (which it is not a race ) the horses are judged on speed without sacrificing gait quality.


I would think that in a fast paced class that it would be very hard for alot of horses to pull off and let others go by them while they wait their penalty out.

I think you must first have judges that know and can recognize quickly what is not accurate gait. Then when a horse is out of gait that horse recieves a mark on the scorecard but continues the race. I just think it breaks the continuity of the event
A horse will be pentalized for anything other than accurate square gait. Too pacey, too trotty, crowhoppiing, or hitching

I Personally feel that it should not be the fastest horse that wins .but the fastest horse in the correct gait with the least amount of gait penalties.

I have seen alot of very fast horses that drifted to far laterally to be considered largo.

Accurate square gait, Everything else is out

Stratton

[baileyholc]

I think if the race is going to be inside the arena then their should be at least one person watching one horse and if the horse breaks gait than mark it but keep the horses going. At the end of the mile count the marks the horse with the least amount of marks wins. You don't want alot of people in the center ring then have no more that 8 riders and 8 judges. One judge can't posabley watch two horses and be fair.

[SandyMM]

5 strides broken at one time and you're DQ'd
LOLOL! The judges can't tell in the 'regular' classes when some horses are out of gait. And they _certainly_ had a hard time distinguishing the rampant cantering in the turns!

i would almost rather see a head to head challenge jackpot race for money on a half-mile+ straightaway. One break gets a stop/start penalty, second break is a DQ. Double elimination tournament style.

One of my vendor friends said that he felt that the largo race was the only truly exciting event at Nationals this year and he has been to _many_ shows all over the country. I have to agree that the largo got more of the crowd actively involved than just about any class at the show.

It seems the shows are getting so regulated and predictable and with so many classes - even in different divisions which look so similar - that even ardent fans of the breed are choosing to spend their time and money elsewhere enjoying their Pasos. I thought it was intersting what someone posted about seeing a lot of spectators entering the arena for the largo race and so many leaving after it was over - just prior to what should have been the crown jewel class of the whole show...

It was evident from the precipitous fall in the number of spectators this year, that something is going on - and it isn't positive. The obvious lack of spectators at the arena during Friday and Saturday classes was a _big_ shock to vendors - many of whom either barely made expenses or were down 40-60% in sales at a show that is usually the most profitable of the year.

[paintedhorizon]

Okay, MG, start a new poll please. Since you changed it, my choice changed and it's not what I want.

Okay, someone made a good point, how can we keep track of breaking gaits? I think that needs to be answered FIRST before we say how many breaks and you're DQed

[stratton]

I think alot of attention is being put on breaking gait and rightfully so. But then you have the issue of quality of gait . You may have a horse that performs a flawless stepping pace for the entire mile or the horse doing the same with a broken trot. How about the horse whose is hitching in one of its hind legs and last but not least the horse that goes into a dead pace from the start but never breaks. How can you place these horses even if they cover the mile faster than the horse whose largo is very square with descent speed but comes in fifth because the rider and horse remained in square correct gait.

Plus alot of riders may not realize or agree that their horse is not in correct gait. Sure it is easy to tell when a horse blows up and goes to bouncing ,running or crowhopping . But those are only a small part of being out of gait

I personally dont think it can ever be a race I think it should be a class maybe called Pleasure Largo Where you are judged on the rail at a walk ,in a corto and special emphasis on the largo. The judging would be 60% Largo 20% Corto 10% walk and 10% manners. If gait quality, range of gait,the ability to flat walk and disposition is what we like about our largo horses then that should be the area of critique by a judge. Let it be pointed so you have to qualify for nationals. Alot of local shows will have to offer it then. A big majority of the Performance horses would probably want to be in this class but having the flat walk as part of the class criteria will weed out some of those.

Just my opinions which never end and always seem to change

Stratton

[motorgypsy]

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Ok - we seem to have eliminated both stopping in the race lane and counting the NUMBER of times a horse breaks gait. BUT if we have one judge per horse - which we need - that judge should certainly be able to tell if the horse goes five or more strides in a canter - or make it 10 - whatever - but cantering half the length of the arena should be DQ'd.

I do another post with another poll but let's let everyone read the comments and add some before I do it in case there are some better ideas.

There are some great points but we HAVE to keep it simple and I suspect the closer it is to what they are doing now, the better chance we have of success with the "powers that be".

Now if we want to run an independent largo race off site we can do so. The stables right across the interstate less than a mile away has a mile track. But I'd still like to see the indoor arena largo race done for the show people and visitors. They like it!!! And if you gave me a choice of going outside and watching a half mile largo in the heat and bugs or staying inside in an air conditioned arena in a nice seat watching one in the area you can guess which I'd pick!! ;-) ;-) ;-)

[paintedhorizon]

This just wouldn't be possible, not enough judges

BUT if we have one judge per horse

[SandyMM]

Plus alot of riders may not realize or agree that their horse is not in correct gait.
Say it ain't so, Statton! ;-)

[Beth Worden]

Hmmm. As long as everyone is putting in their 2.5 cents I just was wondering about racing in the arena at all! A quarter mile/half mile stretch. This is how they tolt race the Icelandics and it is very exciting. If you break gait and are caught/seen by the judges you are immediately DQed. No second changes...- which anyone who has ever shown knows that is the way it goes, maybe not fair, but fair enough. Fastest horse that stays in gait wins.

[paso5]

I just finished writing a letter to the association asking them to consider a Largo Pleasure Class- I suggested a starting with a slow largo, then fast largo, then flat walk and then reverse, then maybe even a flat walk serpentine, then a back and mount and dismount like Country Pleasure. That will at least eliminate the fino horses that are in all the classes now and help the largo horses have a class - the performance horses will have a hard time walking at the serpentine!

I think alot of attention is being put on breaking gait and rightfully so. But then you have the issue of quality of gait . You may have a horse that performs a flawless stepping pace for the entire mile or the horse doing the same with a broken trot. How about the horse whose is hitching in one of its hind legs and last but not least the horse that goes into a dead pace from the start but never breaks. How can you place these horses even if they cover the mile faster than the horse whose largo is very square with descent speed but comes in fifth because the rider and horse remained in square correct gait.

Plus alot of riders may not realize or agree that their horse is not in correct gait. Sure it is easy to tell when a horse blows up and goes to bouncing ,running or crowhopping . But those are only a small part of being out of gait

I personally dont think it can ever be a race I think it should be a class maybe called Pleasure Largo Where you are judged on the rail at a walk ,in a corto and special emphasis on the largo. The judging would be 60% Largo 20% Corto 10% walk and 10% manners. If gait quality, range of gait,the ability to flat walk and disposition is what we like about our largo horses then that should be the area of critique by a judge. Let it be pointed so you have to qualify for nationals. Alot of local shows will have to offer it then. A big majority of the Performance horses would probably want to be in this class but having the flat walk as part of the class criteria will weed out some of those.

Just my opinions which never end and always seem to change

Stratton

[Pasolady]

3 breaks you're out.

Must stop, wait 5 sec then go to rail and resume gait. jmho

[paintedhorizon]

While that sounds nice, it's just not doable. All the spectators would have to get up and move and that's not going to happen! LOL

Hmmm. As long as everyone is putting in their 2.5 cents I just was wondering about racing in the arena at all! A quarter mile/half mile stretch. This is how they tolt race the Icelandics and it is very exciting. If you break gait and are caught/seen by the judges you are immediately DQed. No second changes...- which anyone who has ever shown knows that is the way it goes, maybe not fair, but fair enough. Fastest horse that stays in gait wins.