National Sale Results

[britzlove]

OK here's some from the Thursday night national sale..I'm afraid the quickest way will be just to sling them up here first..organize later..I have so many to still find and sort even.

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Hip 18 Habanera de la Catedral
2001 flea bitten gray mare, mislisted as dun
$3900 SOLD This was a very nice pleasure show mare with 242 points and had been shown by Sub Jr's
I liked her very much, would have been a nice buy for someone

By MarcaPasos out of Chaquiro Tres Daughter La Consentida de Chaquiro

Adding another Picture
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[britzlove]

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Hip 4 Vencedor de Ropa
1997 Chestnut Stallion $38,000 repurchase-no sale
By Prometido de Selecta out of Cantinera del Conde
Has 702 performance points
Probably hurt him to not be ridden in, and I would be suspect on this one. Nice horse though.

See other pics listed lower...when I was sorting these out I mislableled this. Its a closer photo of the son of Vencedor shown with him.

[britzlove]

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Hip 16 La Luisa de Kerita 2001 Gray Mare
By MDM de Besilu out of Kerita del Caribe
She SOLD for $3100
This was a VERY nice mare, but she literally jumped out of the ring. She was much better when she came back..but damage to bidding was done. My notes: Perfect confirmation, nice collection and head and neck to die for. She has 20 points

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[britzlove]

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Hip 20 This was one of the really neat buys for someone
Southside De La Manoah 2005 Bay Stallion

He was shown and described as fresh out of the pasture no training, and it was apparent. But, he is by 222 out of a Capuchino daughter La Espina de la Clara
Sold 1200 probably repurchased I hope

[britzlove]

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Hip 21 Roxanne de Bella 2001 Gray Mare by El Classico de Plebeyo out of a Capuchino daughter La Espina de Clara (so is 1/2 sis to above)
She was consigned by Buttermilk Farms
You may not be able to see it but her hair coat was metallic. She had nice Brio, but was very controlled and had good collection. I saw her as a nice Perf. prospect and she had 54 points. Sold $8000

[britzlove]

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Hip 22 Jerome de Gacela 2003 Bay stallion by JLMS Jaranero out of Castellano daughter! La Gacela de Casta. I don't know what it was maybe because not all the way under saddle, but he sold, or hopefully not in reality, for $1900.

What fun! See his mother listed later down!

[britzlove]

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Hip 25 Revendedor HG 2001 Bay Stallion by Percal de Casta out La Revancha de Casta
He was one of my main pics of the sale! Definate performance horse, very nice gait and the action I love. Full Brother to 2005 Reserve champion Performance mare is listed in program.
At $5200 would have been my dream..someone got a good one

Figured I should add that he was a little trotty, but it was usually just a brio fit. I still would have loved to add him to my herd for that price.

[Cindy]

Hey Britz, he's in my barn. :razz:

[britzlove]

OK...this was the IT GELDING of the sale.

Hip 26 Candido del Rio 1997 Palomino Gelding by Experataco de Casta out of Lady Luck de Casta
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He was definately without a doubt that gelding everyone wants. The one you can give test rides on, let your mother ride, kids trail ride etc. And color. I could not believe he sold but it was a very convincing act if fake, sold $2700

[britzlove]

What do you mean Cindy? You bought him?? # 25?

[Cindy]

No, I didn't buy him. The woman who bought him has him here in training. I did think about buying him though. But you have not yet gotten to the one that I am still kicking myself for NOT buying.

[britzlove]

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This was another little wildish out of pasture colt. Hip 27
Southside Captan 2004 Bay Stallion by Captain de La Vitrina out of La Violetera de Casta

[britzlove]

Cindy..please tell her to keep me updated about him if she would. I am always on the lookout for stallions with that kind of gait..someday want to breed or buy my own, for now I just follow them like people follow Nascar and Baseball.

Thanks!

And I know I have pics of all of the horses, if you remember the name or # I'll try to get to it sooner

Britz

[Cindy]

I'll keep you updated as long as he is here. I have not ridden him yet but so far he seems like a sweetheart. The other one was the black gelding that went at the end for $3200 from Buttermilk Farm. I even went to the owner after the sale to see if he had actually sold. UInfortuntely he had.

[Ginger]

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This was another little wildish out of pasture colt. Hip 27
Southside Captan 2004 Bay Stallion by Captain de La Vitrina out of La Violetera de Casta

I LOVE that little boy!!! I'll bet he'll be a lot of fun!

[appyday]

Ugggggggggg I would have bougtht that gelding..I am glad I did not go..

[britzlove]

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Another one I really like alot.

Hip 29 Kublai Pan del Azur a 2004 Gray Stallion, Dark!!! Steel Blueish gray! A Profeta son out of a Plebeyo daughter Mikada del Azur

Very nicely started under saddle! Good horse! $5250 SOLD

Last one today..more Monday I promise!

[Linda Y]

OK...this was the IT GELDING of the sale.

Hip 26 Candido del Rio 1997 Palomino Gelding by Experataco de Casta out of Lady Luck de Casta

He was definately without a doubt that gelding everyone wants. The one you can give test rides on, let your mother ride, kids trail ride etc. And color. I could not believe he sold but it was a very convincing act if fake, sold $2700

I sure hope he didn't sell for that! What a nice horse.

You didn't come across a picture of my raffle gelding yet, did you?

[LynnG]

La Luisa de Kerita was consigned last year to the sale, also.,.as I liked her lines. Don't know if they pulled her before the sale last year.

hmmmm....

[Candice Burger]

I was thinking the same Lynn about La Luisa de Kerita. I need to start tracking down some of Pat's horses. Shame so many went to Juan Vasquez...who knows where they are at now.

[LynnG]

Ha...Candace....so you didn't buy her? Now if the list had been publicized more before the show...so folks would of known what horses were being sold....like the stallion auction was in the PFHW....she would of been worth the trip to look at (conflict or not on my end). The PFHA website large file PDFs is not user friendly to dial-up connections...and that is the only way to know unless you are at theshow and got a auction catalog.

PS...FYI....For the cost of what the consignment fee is .... extra publicity seems in order for the auction outside of the show. I sent several to the sale in 1999. Sold 1 in auction, sold 1 after the auction during the remaider of the show, sold the other 2 privately later on. Another would of been sold at the show ..but folks who came to bid on her thought she had been sold at auction, when in fact she was no sale...not too far off from the reserve so they could of come talked to me privately. They left the auction and show when they didn't get the winning bid..... their friends stayed on and told me later...but the folks were gone by then.

So perhaps for these auctions a minimal reserve price should be published, so poeple know where to start the bids near.

[LynnG]

I looked at the pfha website and didn't find a link to the auction horses. Has anyone seen the info there and a link?

[Candice Burger]

Never was posted on pfha.org. I usually start checking about a month before Nationals because sometime between 3-4 weeks before the auction, the catalog is posted. Not this year! I was hoping some sympathetic soul would pick a catalog up for me.

I may have gotten up there earlier Friday if I had the catalogs. But after last year's trip (sicker than slick snot) just for a mare that was a no show, I had a hard time getting my energy level up to go for unknown entries.

I never see sale statistics either. Just google for other auctions and they at least post low, high, and average bids and the number of horses actually sold with their prices.

2004 was the year Alan Parker would cry "sold" for a no sale that the owner bought back or had a reserve. Before it would be a "no sale with reserve", but not always (?). That was a peculiar practice, I thought. Can anyone educate me as to why it was inconsistent? So you have to listen carefully after the horse is declared "SOLD".

As far as publicity goes--I agree. But again, we want the paso breed to remain the best kept secret. Those catalogs are treated like gold. Don't know why. They can't use them again and act like if you aren't "serious" about buying (the criterion is to have wads of money spewing forth), Parker's crew doesn't want to give you one. I thought the pdf files filled in the gap for curious seekers like me.

[onie s]

A good friend of mine bought the palomino gelding. She is in love with him! He has a really good home and will probably be there until he dies.

[PasoPerson]

The two auction results eventually get published in Paso Fino Horse World. I think it's the January issue, not sure.

Just far enough away where no one can remember if the $ amount includes the "repurchased" horses or not. 8-)

[Camilla]

Thanks very much for posting this info Britz! It's more than I'd hoped for when I put out the request - keep it coming! :D

[Pasomom]

Onies, Its good to know that beautiful Palo Gelding found a wonderful home!

[britzlove]

Sorry everybody..I left my stuff in my other car..I'll have to wait until Wed. to post more.
I have all of them I think...just still sorting them out.
Wednesday I promise!

[LynnG]

Prices would have beeeen higher on many horses if the sale was marketed better, people knew in advance what horses would be sold, and possibly what reserves would be with the horse listings. This would bring out legitimate buyers. Bids could be accepted by phone or by silent bid also..if folks only knew enough ahead of time to research a horse or even go see it outside the auction environment.

Thanks for posting the pics and prices.

[DebbieS]

Britz, thanks for doing this. I know it must have been a lot of work to post pics/prices/numbers, etc.

Looks like a buyer's market for sure. Wish I needed another horse :roll:

[Camilla]

Maybe we need to petition Alan Parker and/or PFHA to post reserve or minimum bids and post auction list before sale on the website (like they used to!).
I have participated in many art auctions and we always have a posted minimum bid - it is very useful for buyers and sellers alike... there is no reason why it wouldn't work here and I think it would really help the sale. And if people posted no minimum bid and offered for auction without a reserve, that would be A-OK, too.

[Candice Burger]

Whatever it takes to get real sales transactions and not all this phony stuff!

I have no problems with an owner having "agents" bidding on their behalf to either repurchase the horse or to get a "reasonable" sale price. I wouldn't want my good stock go for below market if I could help it! I'd rather take it back home than give it away. That happens an any auction and you learn how to look for it.

What I don't like is the intentional design to low-bid the horse with a reserve that is meant to no-sale the animal so the owner has all the advantages of entering the furturity. Instead of driving the prices up, they are purposefully driving them down. Gee, then we all wonder why the futurity is broke!

How are prices set on some of these TB auctions? Aren't the horses evaluated before they are allowed to enter the sale?

[Cindy]

Candice, the events committee is working on this problem. Do you have any suggestions?

[TrueStepPaso]

Okay....I'm going to be the big "moron for the day", because I have no clue as to the "what & why" on this auction thing. Candice just explained a little bit of it above there, but I'd really like to understand this more....

Anybody....hello....?? I'd really appreciate it! :D

[Camilla]

Hi Cindy,
If the events committee is accepting feedback from anyone... I'd love to throw a couple cents in.

I mentioned some before but here it is again - and these go for both auctions unless I specify futurity:

1. publish the sales list somewhere accessible (ie. PFHA website) with enough time to peruse before the sale. Preferably with pics.

2. Include a minimum bid, if there is one, for each horse. I agree with Candice that I don't care if owner inflates bid by bidding against buyer - that's the chance buyers take at an auction and the chance sellers take that they won't sell... I just want to know the real minimum to see if there is a point in coming to look/bid. I think it is up to the informed buyer to decide what they want to spend on the horse and what it is worth to them... seller is not obligated to prevent buyer from "paying too much".

3. If futurity auction participants want to qualify their horse for the class without selling it... give them the option of paying a hefty entrance/futurity fee instead of making them go to the expense of transporting/vetting/stabling a 2yo horse to Nationals that they have no intention of selling. And then folks know that any horses in the futurity auction are actually there to be hopefully sold.

4. Have auctioneer tell the truth at end of auction, ie: "Sold" means SOLD. And "no-sale-reserve-not-obtained" or something means just that and a potential buyer could still go back to the barn and speak to seller and possibly still facilitate a sale.

I think the auctions can be a really good thing, but may need some tweaking to get there. I have bought 3 horses over the years from the auctions, if it adds any credibility to my comments with your committee... (meanin'... "hey, I ain't just shootin' my mouth off... I'm a former customer and therefore my concerns oughta be theirs"... or something :smile: )

[Cindy]

Camilla, I think those are all very good suggestions and I will bring them to the committee. The only thing that I am not sure about personally is revealing the minimum bid on a horse. And I don't know if that would not work well, I just have a couple of reservations about whether or not it is the best way to go. My thinking is this, the way that auctions work is to get the interest at a lower bid and have the excited buyers bid the horse up to what it will eventually sell for. I think you may lose some bidders who would bid the horse up and get the bidding going and exciting if they knew that the minimum on the horse was more than they were willing to pay to begin with. Also, I think many horses may go for less than the reserve if the buyer decides that they really would like to sell the horse instead of bring it home and if the higher minimum is listed, the bid may not go anywhere because of the people not bidding because they think it is out of their price range. I do understand about an experienced buyer wanting to know the minimum to know whther or not they would like to come see the horse at all. But at the same time, what if that buyer does not come to bid on the horse and the seller DOES decide to sell for less than the listed minimum. Then everyone looses.

I know this year at the auction the auctioneer would say something like "sold RNA" when the Reserve was not acheived and something else if the horse was no saled but I can't remember what that was. I do think we need to know sooner which horses have actually sold and which have not. But if I had any interest at all in a horse that went through I would surely go to the owner and ask if it truely sold or not. In fact I did and unfortunately the horse had indeed sold.

[Terry Wallace]

Just my 2 cents... I have to agree with Cindy on posting minimum bid. Rarely do I ever see that at horse auctions/productions sales... Usually, the auctioneer just says "Sorry folks, but we do not have minimum bid" then asks if anyone wants to continue bidding...and if there is no one interested, the horse is passed out unsold.

Art really cannot be compared to "horse worth"...Art has very established value and horses just don't... Horses bring "what the traffic will bear"... they have no actual worth...just "perceived worth" mostly by their owners...based on what those owners *think* it should be...or perhaps based on the amount a stallion *might* earn in breeding fees....

These are NOT Thoroghbred race horses... we are talking about a breed that is for the most part "highly inflated" in pricing...JMO

In the end...it is what the traffic will bear...and what a person will pay. Its not like there is a possible huge payback to try and balance your purchase price against... JMO

Putting on the flame-retardant suit now.
Fire One!

[LynnG]

I have old auction sale catalogs from Besilu farm and Rancho de Intocable which listed minimum or reserve sale prices on most horses. Those cream of the sale would say "private treaty" reserve. This created realistic expectations for buyers. At the RLI sale, if the reserve was not reached, seller did remove reserves on some horses needing to be sold. Otherwise, I have seen unsold horses run thru sales again at the end and seller.

[Terry Wallace]

Yep..seen that too at Nationals Lynn...

Personally ..I think HONESTY in marketing is called for here.

For example...the mare that went through the sale, which had a sow mouth, which was NOT disclosed to the buyer....by either the seller or the auctioneer (which PFHA rules state you must disclose faults...in the ethics of selling horses)..... was bought, the buyer went back to see his prize....apparently opened her mouth, discovered the defect...refused to pay for the mare as he bought her with intent of breeding (this fault would be a genetically heritable fault) and before you know it...here is the same mare being brought back in to sell...the reason (fault) was then given...and the price fell accordingly.

Now...imagine that you are a potential buyer new to horses, and you have your heart set on buying a Paso Fino, at what *could* appear to be the most economical way...an auction...only to be mislead by the seller who did not disclose the fault... Is that the picure we would all like to see forming in the potential buyers mind? I think NOT...

How about some HONSETY in selling...how about disclosing faults like you are *supposed* to.... how about representing the horses in a FACTUAL way? How about explaining that the mare is not breeding stock? How about not risking that the mare would be bred, possibly producing a foal with her same mouth defect? How about not letting that contribute to the downfall of the genetic quality of the breed? Same thing with people out there breeding mares/stallions showing signs of DSLD, and maybe already diagnosed with DSLD...? To me...to sell such a horse for breeding is totally unethical.... just as not disclosing to the buyer that the foal they just bought dam..has DSLD....?? How would you like to devote ten years to a horse who ends up having to be put down with DSLD, when the seller/breeder KNEW...yet did not disclose....that the dam had DSLD??? Same thing with horses with eye defects... genetic eye defects... was the blindness caused by a virus...or was it genetic?

Now.... how many of you out there think we should have a grading system for Pasos? How many would like to see every "breeding stock" paso have to pass a board exam before being bred and having registered offspring? I sure would...it would help maintain the quality of the breed...
Instead...we have so many people breeding that have no clue...and its..."well, I can't ride her..she is too lame...better breed her and get some money out of this whole mess" yeah...lets set up the "next buyer in line" for a potential disaster right from the get-go...

Sorry to get a bit off topic...but this is the kind of thing I see happening and I just don't like it....JMO....IMO...

[Candice Burger]

Hey Cindy,

Most of the suggestions or comments here are a start. I've been thinking about this a while as you know. There's allot of ideas running around in my head but I think the first step is to go back and figure out what is the REAL mission of the auction(s).

I'm not into all this rule this and rule that to punish a few not-so-great experiences either.

I think the fundamental administration of the auctions need revamping. I don't have specifics about how to go about doing that. But here's some elements I'd like to see:
1. The auction is set up to be representative of the breed. The animals are appropriately conditioned for sell.
2. Reputable breeders are involved and committed in selling horses.
3. Provide the marketing to encourage small breeders to submit quality animals (Small breeders want to participate and sell their horses; they are honest about their intentions)

Some things that can happen right away:
1. Develop a catalog that has comprehensive information. I kinda like the idea of having stats on the horses--how many offspring produced, how many have shown and their winnings (limit the type of awards listed), pedigree, if the horse has shown itself and their winnings.
2. Electronic distribution of the catalog XXX time before the auction.


The minimum bid--that's a hard one for me to wrap my brain around. Should it be published or not? I don't know how that would affect interest and we need attendance at these auctions. We need serious buyers.

Has PFHA done a survey about who buys and at what prices? The general auction might be tailored for newcomers or those interested in getting more involved in the breed, but the futurity, well, that's something for the real serious folks in the breed.

Prices should reflect the true market value of that horse to the breeder. It may be a 15 year old mare that has great production, but the breeder has kept 7 fillies from her and they are producing now. He doesn't have room for her and needs to let her go. Does the breeder price her so that a person who wants a jump-start can afford her or does he price her at some outrageous number because she's "good" and her offspring are "good"? He may let her go without reserve simply because he has to. I think there's allot of needed discussion about what these auctions are for and how to serve both sides.

Some breeders condition their horses only for auctions. That might be something to develop. The opportunity to have farms sell their stock during certain times of the year. Not sure pasos are ready for that type of sale, but something to think about. I had hoped to see the auctions become promising and that is one way I was going to market my production. It's easier for me to get 2-4 ready once a year and know when I need to get them ready. Gives me a goal; makes me competitive. What I bring back home, I'm pretty comitted to selling.

Seems to me, though, the basic ingredient is how committed are we to developing an event like this? It may mean some short-term sacrifices in selling horses AND some soul searching about what the REAL market value of a paso is. That's not something I can bottle up or make a list from.

[Terry Wallace]

Prices should reflect the true market value of that horse to the breeder. It may be a 15 year old mare that has great production, but the breeder has kept 7 fillies from her and they are producing now. He doesn't have room for her and needs to let her go. Does the breeder price her so that a person who wants a jump-start can afford her or does he price her at some outrageous number because she's "good" and her offspring are "good"? He may let her go without reserve simply because he has to. I think there's allot of needed discussion about what these auctions are for and how to serve both sides.

THANK YOU Candice... that is exactly how I got my start in breeding AQHA horses...I followed the sales and I bought those older broodmares...at reasonable prices. Proven, reasonably priced broodmares that usually ranged from $900 to $1500 each....

The reason I don't like putting minimum reserves on horses..is because I have seen it make people not bid at all.... would it not be better to let them bid, and if the reserve is not met... have the auctioneer state so?
At least that way...a seller can see what people *might* be willing to pay....besides... at a National sale..or any procuction sale..you will normally find horses in all price ranges... from $500 to $200,000 in the SAME sale.... (did you catch the Babcock QH sale on RFD TV?)

Speaking of RFD TV...how about that marketing tool? At least Paso Finos shows are on RFD TV.... how about pooling up some breeders and sharing the expense of a televised sale...where interested, yet out of town people can bid by phone?

If it had not been for phone bids... the last Akhal Teke sale in the USA would have been a total disaster...I can only imagine how much better it would have done...if televised...here, we had the most endangered, rarest breed of horse (at the time...just after Chernobyl disaster) selling for KILLER prices of $500 & $600 each..... Just food for thought....I'm on a roll today!

[Camilla]

Cindy et al,
I can see your points re: posting minimum bids. There are definitely pros and cons I guess.
I'd still like to see the rest...

[Cindy]

Thanks, Candice. I think we are going to try to educate both the buyers and the sellers more on how auctions work so I think that addresses some of your issues. I am working on getting some good info about this. I agree absolutely that info needs to go out sooner an the horses involved in the sale. As far as stats on horses go, that is a whole nother issue. Our Association needs to develop a system for keeping stats on all breeding horses within the Association. I am all for this but do not see it happening in the near futer unless the powers that be get their heads out of the sand and realize that it needs to be done.


And Camilla, forgot to mention that your number three has been discussed and I think that is what may be worked out as part of the solution to buyers putting horses in that are not really for sale. Thanks for the input everyone.

[Candice Burger]

Well, good for you Terry! At least I'm not alone trying to find the "off" button about these auctions!

I've attended various auctions over the years and don't attend them like I did. They ranged from the killer auctions to the TB sales in Ocala. One thing is for sure though--horses SELL! When you've got a guy from TX in south GA with QH, he wants to go back with an empty load.

The worst auctions I've attended have been paso auctions because they are either dispersals where the horses are given away (no buyers and no bidding) or where there is a scam. Remember when Riveria had bids on the mare in 198? for over 100,000?--everyone watched his buddies do the bidding while he showed off a mare he had no intentions of selling. As soon as the serious buyers realized they were being plucked they quit bidding but the buddies didn't. The auctioneer finally had to stop the sale.

Our auctions ARE attracting buyers from other breeds for various reasons. One year I met a guy that was wanting a tall horse with paso gait. He didn't want a walker he wanted paso. One was a breeder of paints and wanted to put gait in his paints--novel idea. I see people attending for a specific horse or just shopping hoping to get a nice gelding.

Speaking of which--what about those geldings? And Terry's got a point. While Perry is too close to FL where geldings get no respect, folks out west and yonder are crying out for good geldings to ride. With electronic sales all parts of the country could participate in the auction and not have to travel days just to find out their horse never showed.

[Terry Wallace]

Absolutely Candice... I witnessed the same kind of bid running on nearly every horse auctioned at the "biggest Paso farm in the USA".... herd dispersal....

Makes one get bullish and stand up and yell to the auctioneer..
WHERE IS THE BID? meaning who is the last bidder I'm bidding against...and there IS NONE...

Then..all the sudden the false bid is revealed, the auctioneer has to back up, eat his words... and the horse is sold to the REAL bidder... at the correct price.

Maybe instead of sellers seeding auctions with false buddy bidders... buyers should seed them with people that have enough backbone to stand up and ask....WHERE IS THE BID????? to stop this bid-running....

Geeze..I have seen so many people pay false mark-up bids..it just irks me because all breeders eventually suffer from such tactics...overinflated prices, false profits... LORDY..If I dared to do that with engine sales..I'd be immediately "exposed"...but with Horses...and no actual established TRUE "worth"..its a whole nuther can of worms.......JMO

[Candice Burger]

I think LynnG said it best about having some buddies bid up a price. Put a reserve on the horse! Of course you may take the horse home again. ;-)

I go back and forth about having some buddies help with the bid price. On one hand, I don't want to see horses go for next to nothing and on the other hand an anxious buyer trying to get the horse shouldn't be fleeced.

I have to say that if I were entering my horse for sale, I'd take my chances that the horse would speak for itself. If it didn't, maybe I need to go back to the drawing board with my breeding program or recognize that the auction can't sell my type of horse.

So, do we have to have an auction like Parker's or can some other way of bidding replace it? Does that type of quick hype get the sales up?

[Cindy]

Candice, bidding the horse up is done in all legitamit horse auctions. It does not mean that one is scamming the buyer. There may be only one buyer out there for that particular horse on that particular day. To not run the bid up to an honest price would not be fair to the seller nor to the buyer when the seller no sales the horse because it did not bring enough. The price of a horse is and always will be what a buyer is willing to pay and what a seller is willing to sell for. Many times the auction horse is presold to a buyer at an agreed upon price and the bid is run up to that price. If there is someone willing to pay more, ther original buyer must up the anti. If not, the horse is sold at the agreed upon price. Would you all rather noone bid the price up and the horse never sell?

[Candice Burger]

Well that's where I'm stuck on it Cindy.

I'm not saying there's anything ethically wrong with the practice. I see it all the time and most times I don't have a problem with it. Sellers need to get good market prices or they won't sell and the auction doesn't serve it's purpose. It's a way of doing business.

I admit that I had lined up a couple of friends to come with me to an auction when I was seriously considering putting a few fillies through at the National auction for that reason. I really would not want to take a horse back home if it's seriously for sale and I wouldn't want it to go for below market value. Bad reflection on all levels--about my horses to the breed value.

Where I do have problems is when the price is already inflated and no one is bidding on the horse except the owner 'agents'. It's blatantly obvious that they are waiting for a victim and in the meantime inflating the 'value' of the horse for a sales pitch later on. Leaves a very bad taste and I inherently build a distrust about the auction after that point.

Can't expect all the chaff to blow out.

I vacillate on this one issue and thinking about it more, my actions would be influenced by what I perceive the auction to be. If the auction is pretty straight up on how horses are nominated, who participates, a real effort to sell good horses--sure I'll pepper the audience with some friends or do a private sale before entering a horse. BUT if I know there's allot of dishonesty or the preception of such, NO! I will not dare try the tactic. I don't want to leave with people thinking I'm 'one of them'. Does that make sense? I'd rather set a reserve and be real bland about selling the horse.

And you can see what I finally decided--no way in heck am I sending a horse to auction right now. Participation is weak on all sides. There is allot of distrust right now, perceived or real. Allot of second guessing going on even from the more savvy group that have a handle on how auctions run. That's not the atmosphere I want to use to present my horses. Although I would LOVE to hear what Rick would say about one of my fillies! That is a strong attraction to enter one.

[Terry Wallace]

Where I do have problems is when the price is already inflated and no one is bidding on the horse except the owner 'agents'. It's blatantly obvious that they are waiting for a victim and in the meantime inflating the 'value' of the horse for a sales pitch later on. Leaves a very bad taste and I inherently build a distrust about the auction after that point.

Yeah...that!

I don't agree that all auctions have lots of bid running... I would say that most ALL auctions have SOME amount of bid running. The bigger the auction...the more bid running I see.

The smaller home-town auctions have very little bid running. The auctions where any breed of horse is being sold....the "clearing house" type auctions, such as the one 20 miles from me... has very littel bid running... there are LOTS of horses selling for $500-$600...so there is little if any bid running. Same with production sales we have attended and participated in...

Of course it is the auctioneer's job to get a horse started "somewhere" for bid... more often than not...that somewhere is in between $500 and $1,000.....that is AFTER they already tried to start the horse at say $2,000 and nobody got on and bid....after the auctioneer gets SERIOUS... the reserve bid fell to a low bid point, and people begin to bid.

Its like a game... they start them high, to see if anybody will "jump on" and be bound to bid higher.... then, they cut them back and get serious when there is no one bidding on the "opening bid"..that is how auctions work... If the auctioneer can snag a buyer with a high opening bid... that is what the auctioneer would like to do... get that opening bidder who is all excited, and can't wait to raise their hand & number....

Horse auctions... get the "fever" :D

[britzlove]

Re-entering my thread..still posting results..someday I might post my opinions as to the other subjects discussed..but I promised an unbiased report..so here is the next entry into the sale (I do list my notes merely as impressions of the horses themselves).

Hip 30http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip30NS2.jpg

Micaela de La Vioa

2003 Chestnut mare
My notes say..just like every other chestnut Capuchino daughter..very fino though SOLD $11,000

By Capuchino out of Atrevido del Ocho daughter Nicolasa del Ocho who the program lists as the dam of Micaela and Pokahontas.

[Cindy]

This mare was the best buy of the sale.

[britzlove]

The Sale topper

Hip 40 Promesa de La Alborada
2002 Dun Mare By Cotesano de la Virginia out of an Amadeus daughter Tomasa Dos del Ocho in guaranteed in foal to Tormento de La Virginia
Trained by Jaime Suarez never shown, but showed good fino gait
$32,000
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip40NS2.jpghttp://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip40NS.jpg

[Cindy]

Britz, do you know if this one actually sold?

[Candice Burger]

Well, with all the negative out. Auctions can be allot of fun! It's always exciting to see what type of horse grabs the attention. Sometimes auctioneers will run a couple of horses that they know will get the crowd going first and then bring in ones that might need some boosting. It's always good to see sellers bringing horses that are tuned for selling too.

So, there's allot great things about auctions that I enjoy. I like watching animals go for maybe a little more or less than I predicted and I like seeing buyers excited over their purchases. It's a good deal all the way around. When there is allot of pride by the sellers in the horses presented, there will be allot of buyers who feel the same.

[britzlove]

Hip 41 La Gacela de Casta
1989 Roan Mare (I saw some roaning in her flanks but she was a seal bay color almost black)
She is a daughter of Castellano, enough said to me, by a Hilaches daughter Velada who was also by the dam Venus
HilachesXVenus!!
This mare was sold for $4300. Here's your example of the wonderful broodmare starter Terry..she was in excellent shape..12 foals with 2,667 points. I know, I know..she's old..but I certainly wish I had an unlimited checkbook. She'd have come home with me.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip41NS.jpg

[britzlove]

Here's Cindy's buy wish:

Hip 42 El Chantaje de United
2001 Black Gelding by Decreto de La Luisa out of Acuarela de Los Naranjos (Carmin grandaughter)
He had earned 84 points, listed that he would be good for a JR of A/O I have him 4 starred, and I noted that he was gorgeous.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip42NS2.jpghttp://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/hip42NS.jpg

Whoops..he sold as Cindy already mentioned for $3200 consigned by Buttermilk Farms

[britzlove]

Cindy,

I do not have RNA listed..so I believe she sold. I did observe whether there appeared to be more than one or two bidders, which on this one there was..meaning, to me, I think she had considerable interest. I can't tell you 100% whether truly sold, but I believed so. Referring to the Red Dun mare, that is the one you were inquiring about right?

[Cindy]

Yes, that's the one. If I remember correctly her bid started pretty high and shot up quickly then just ended. It all happened very fast and I could not tell if she really sold or not. But I think she did.

[Terry Wallace]

La Gacela de Casta...was indeed a great buy..... OOPs...12 foals...(I first thought you said 12 yrs old) Over 2,600 points...heck..it cost them way more than the $4300 to even get those points.... yep...there was a very good buy for someone...

[britzlove]

OK, here's Hip 1
Tido del Campo
a 2005 Chestnut Stallion by Prometido de Selecta out of Arrebato de Popayan a Popayan de Besilu daughter, granddaughter of both Plebeyo and Postin
He was a VERY nice colt, who drew the unfortunate first spot. Also, his handlers just could not gel well presenting him. Still, I think he was better than his $1700 price tag. He sold.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip1NS3.jpghttp://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip1NS.jpghttp://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip1NS2.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip2 NS LaLeyenda de La Z
1995 Bay Mare
By Marcan de La Primorosa (Grandson to Gibarito and Triunfo) out of Bamblin de La Primorosa (only one generation listed by Gamonal out of Sirena)
Listed as Foundation Bred
Imported from Columbia
Has that crisp, classical look. I listed her as a VERY nice mare, incredibly well trained, looked to be performance type gaited.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip2NS.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip2NS2.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 4
Vensedor de Ropa
1997 Chestnut Stallion
By Prometido de Selecta out of Cantinera del Conde (mentions she's a winner of 1065 points)

It lists that this stallion was the only schooling performance colt to also win Reserve Grand in Performace, he has 702 points
I felt he was not the nicest Prometido colt in the sale, had trouble staying in gait, but still a very nice horse!
He was a repurchase though, last bid at $38,000
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip4NS-1.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip4NS2.jpg
Shown with one of his sons
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip4NS3.jpg

[Terry Wallace]

Keep 'em coming Britz...this is a real treat for us...and much appreciated... :D

[Camilla]

Ditto what Terry said... I really appreciate it.
Although it is vascillating from agony to relief to see all the nice horses my cheque book missed. I think that yearling Prometido colt looked nice in the pics, anyway.
Question for Cindy (and others?), seeing that gorgeous black Decreto gelding you are kicking yourself over... would this be an appropriate moment to ask you (and any others) to throw their 2 cents in regarding Decreto offspring?

[britzlove]

Sorry..all the rest of the National Sale photos I can find were taken on the digital...they are just not great pics.
But anyway.. I did my best
Hip 5 Don Eduardo
2002 Gray Stallion by Profeta de Besilu out of Brillante (grandaughter of Lucifer and Hilaches)
He aquired 82 pleasure points, 86 A/O pleasure points and 72 A/O performance points as a 3 yr old, and this year (2006) 20 pleasure points, 26 performance points and 46 A/O performance points including A/O Performance Championship at Mason Dixon Spring Show 2006
He sold for $6500http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip5NS3.jpg

Edit- Mistakenly doubled the PFHA's mistake and mislisted this horses Dam, her Name is Desafina, she is a fino mare with 228 points in Fino classes

[britzlove]

OK..this was the worst mistake of the sale in my opinion. This is the gelding donated for the youth scholorship fund. He only sold for $1500 which is a total joke, his training was worth more than that.
Hip 6 Tesoro de La Fogata
2003 Chestnut Gelding
By Contacto de La Aldea a Capuchino son and out of Doncella de Amadeus, an Amadeus daughter.
He was a really nice gelding..that someone is very lucky to have found this cheap. Though young, he appeared to be the gelding many want to own.My daughters not showing Pasos yet, but if Mr. and Mrs Jones of TX have any friends on this list, thank you very much for this generous donation.http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip6NS3.jpg

[britzlove]

Next..

These are HORRIBLE pics..I'm so sorry. This mare is actually a very dark dappled buckskin, very gold.
Hip 7 Espiga de Los Reyes
2003 Buckskin Mare by Resplendor Tres out of Espina Dos de La Vitrina a Captain de La Vitrina daughter (also a Candelazo grandaughter)
She was not started under saddle yet. She sold for $4500
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip7NS5.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip7NS3.jpg

[britzlove]

Another one of the Nicest in the sale.
Hip 8 Penelope
1999 listed as Bay, but Gray mare
By Meridiano del Ocho a JR Simbolo son, grandsire dams side Rescate
out of Estrella a daughter of Hippy crossed with Duquesa Foundation****
Notice again the clean classic lines on this mare..I'd have liked to add her to my herd.
She has 86 points and has had 3 foals. Sold for $5500
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip8NS.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip8NS4.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 9
Estrella de Alasks
1995 Black (black bay actually)
By Ambar del Ocho out of Estrellita an El Astro daughter
I noted she was quite small, but what a lovely head, face conformation. Catolo mentions that she is one of the best producers at the farm, also consigned by Buttermilk Farms

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip9NScropped.jpg
$5700

[britzlove]

I have to go home now..I have all the pics sorted for this National Sale that I have. I'll hopefully get the rest posted tomorrow and then I can start posting more of the Futurity Sale.

I enjoyed documenting this..so no need to thank me ya'll.

Britz

[Cindy]

Camilla, I have not known enough offspring to comment on Decreto.

[britzlove]

Resuming today with Hip 10 DPR Exotica Segunda
2003 Bay Mare By Temblor de Terremoto out of a Monarca de Besilu daughter, Exotica de La Noche, listed as winning many classes at Spectrum.

She is listed as having 2 points in fino, but I personally thought she appeared to be a better performance prospect. She was a really nice mare..I just don't have great pictures. She sold first for 8000, but returned at the end because "the buyers credit didn't go through" and sold for $6500 the second time.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip10NS2.jpg

[appyday]

Britz I too thank you for taking the time to list these...thanks

[britzlove]

I'm gonna show hip's 11 and 12 together here, they are full brothers.
Hip 11 = Fuego del Lago and Hip 12 = Novidad del Lago
Both are by the Retorno del Ocho Son, Zoro de Lago (841 points Fino) and out of Fascinacion de Calidad a Contra-Sucesor granddaughter (30 points Perf. Pleasure)

The yearling Fuego was too cute, and very high on the brio scale..as seen in pics. http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip11NS.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip11NS4.jpg

His little brother actually appeared to have better gait. Both these colts and doll-baby faces.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip12NS2.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/Hip12NS3.jpg

The yearling Sold for $1800 and the weanling Sold for $750 or $800 I wasn't real sure whether they got the $800 listed as last bid.

[britzlove]

No problem Shelley! I have to go through them for my own library anyway!

Brittany

[britzlove]

Hip 13
Cortes de Los Reyes 2003 Bay Stallion
By Mercanario de La Vitrina out of Fantasia de Casta an El Picaflor de Casta daughter out of La Gacela de Casta (Hip 41)
He was trained by Jorge Suarez, the 2006 3 yr old Fino Gelding National Champion(must have been gelded)
I have noted that he had tremendous brio but was very controlled, and I also noted that I thought he could go performance.
His sire has sired 38 foals, 14 to show, 1236 performnce points
His dam is listed with multiple championships in performance and has produced 3 foals, all to show, earning 130 Bella Forma pts and 140 performance points
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip13NS3.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip13NS2.jpg
Notice again his grandmother was the mare I mentioned was the super broodmare buy..La Gacela.
He sold for $10,000

[britzlove]

Hip 15
Presidio IA
2002 Black Stallion
By MarcaPasos out of JLM's La Pesadilla the daughter of El Classico de Plebeyo and out of Manuela del Conde!!!!
I have written at top OMG!!! (means I really really liked), I mentioned he was very expressive, definately performance. He was first in A/O performance 3 yr old colts and 2nd in OPen 3 yr old performance colts in 2005 Nationals, and they said he had taken a 1st, 2nd and 3rd this year (2006) He had 454 points at catalog print
He sold for $15,000 consigned by Dick Millerhttp://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip15NS3.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip15NS2.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip # 17 Charlies Expresso del Rio
1999 Chestnut Gelding
By Charlie out of La Casquivana de Casta a Gracioso daughter out of a Juan Juan mare
Would have been a perfect test ride, demo gelding, go anywhere etc.
He has 140 pleasure points
He sold $3100
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip17NS4.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip17NS3.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 19
El Espiritu de Buttermilk
2003 Bay Stallion by JLM's Jaranero out of La Espina de La Clara a Cauchino daughter 2X Resorte IV (La Espina's Dam also sired by RIV)
70 points, catalog mentions safe and gentle for anyone
Really nice colt with pleasure/performance type gait
Sold $3200
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip19NS3.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip19NS2.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 24
Southside Smokey Gun
2004 Black (gray) Stallion
Fresh out of http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip24NS.jpgthe pasture
Was not slicked up at all
By 222 out of an EL Classico duaghter making him double Classico.
He SOLD!! $2200

[Terry Wallace]

This is great Britz...thanks again... there were some very good buys...some even less than the stud fee to produce them..some, just a tiny bit more than stud fee!

[Candice Burger]

Thanks Britzy!!!

It's better than being there!! The pics are great!

Terry, don't get me started about stud fees!

[Terry Wallace]

Oh c'mon Candice....we could surely use a new thread on STUD FEES....
You KNOW I'll contribute!

Now..don't be a chicken....Pollo, Guina !! Bock, bock, bock!!!

Unless of course you would like to be Chicken Mole` !! I'll take a double order in that case...... :D

[Candice Burger]

Pluck me, stick me with a fork, I'm done! Hmm, chicken mole!

[britzlove]

I actually noted the stud fees for most of these as well, but I haven't included them, I guess I thought everyone would see the price/fee comparison. I am going to use this data, but for posting here..I tried to just present a witness account for those who weren't there. With some of my opinions I guess..but I have tried to keep that at a minimum.

Let me get the rest up here if I can today.

[britzlove]

OK, here's my mare pic of the sale, actually this mare and La Gacela (Hip 41). I would much rather have taken one of these two mares home than some of the other mares, (secret note here for Terry and Candice, ask me why)

Anyway..Hip No 28
Maravilla de La Hacienda 1999 Bay Mare (Gray)
By Profeta de Besilu out of Matilde L. de La Hacienda an El Astro daughter.
She earned 372 points in Fino classes, and catalog lists that she had been shown by three different youths. I noted that when she first entered she was WAY over the bit, but this was easily fixed within 3 minutes. She was an amazing mare, impeccably trained. She showed very natural fino.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip28NS.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip28NS3.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip28NS2.jpg

She sold $11,700

[britzlove]

Hip 31
2005 Bay Mare Aurora de La Rosa
By Andarin Victorial Sin Par out of Reina de Besilu
Handled by Robin Ratliff, Consigned by Knotted Pine Stables
Pretty filly, Sold $1700
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip31NS2.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 32 La Macarena de Casta 2001 Bay Mare
By El Picaflor de Casta out of Resortina de ChNel a Charlie daughter.
The mare is also great-grandaughter to Ladrillo and Cirano for older bloodline followers.
I noted that she showed always in very light contact, weel controlled, excellent quiet demeanor, but had a driving pleasure gait. She was guaranteed in foal to Cataclisimo, a son of Temblor de Terremoto according to the catalog an excellent fino.
She sold $3900
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip32NS2.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip32NS.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 33 Sierra Nevada 1996 Chestnut Mare
By Nevado out of an Arlequin Tres daughter Romeria de Nevado listed as producing offspring earning over 1000 points.
Sierra earned 534 points and 514 youth points and her offspring have already earned 448 points.
She was reserve Nat'l Champion Sub-Junior in this 2006 Nationals.
I listed she was dark almost liver chestnut. Pictures just don't do her justice here. This mare sold for $4000.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip33NS2.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 34 SOS Guerro's Pica Nina 2002 Buckskin Mare (very dark smutty buckskin)
By Guerrero de Casta a Gracioso son, and out of Rosalita de Bochica Pina a Bochica grandaughter.
She had BIG brio, but was well trained and controlled. She was also very patient when in the middle of a bad mounting incident (they waited to have the rider try to mount until in the ring, then he almost went over the other side). She was a small mare, but as you can see very sturdy. She was 3rd in the Piedmont Pleasure Futurity, and has 90 points.
I thought she could be a nice performance mare as well as pleasure.
A really nice buy at $3600, someone's luck.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip34NS4.jpghttp://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip34NS2.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip34NS.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 35 Charlie's Latigo de Copper
1999 Bay Gelding By Charlie out of Rex's Roxy Donde Es (don't know much of her bloodlines other than Plebeyo grandaughter but I just LOVE the name! Say it a couple times..I'm so easily entertained)

Latigo has 181 points and his full sister LOVE won Produce of Dam class in 2004 at Nationals. He is listed as a futurity money earner at Peidmont Ashville

I noted that he was HUGE!! and would be an excellent gelding purchase.
He sold $4100 (people really liked him)
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip35NS3.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip35NS2.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 36 La Bohemia de Los Reyes 2003 Chestnut Mare
By Ambar del Ocho out of Sierra Nevada (Hip 33). This mare was sold guaranteed in foal to Mercanario. She had one in performance this year but I missed the exact class and placing. She was trained by Jorge Suarez and before catalog/Nationals had 150 points in Pleasure and Performance. I liked her alot!
Wish I had more pics though.
SOLD $10,000

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip36NS2.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 37 Pistolero de Herencia 2003 Bay Gelding
By Beech Tree Pistonero out of Suzanna Bravo daughter of Festival International and Grandaughter on bottom of Mar de Plata LaCE
This was the gelding donated to raise money for the Geldings for Gold program. Graciously donated by Charlie and Milda Mintor, and 2 months training donated by Shaw Laney (Big Thanks to those folks!!!!)
I did note that he was barely under saddle, but wish people had been more supportive he only brought $2000.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip37NS4.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip37NS2.jpg

[britzlove]

Hip 38 Corinita del Azur
2003 chestnut mare by Prometido de Selecta out of Plebeyo daughter Tentacion del Azur, excellent pedigree.
She is listed as having 26 points in Performance schooling, but I certainly thought she would have been better goaled for pleasure. Only my opinion.
Anyway she sold for $5000
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip38NS.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip38NS2.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/britzlove/National%20Sale/Hip38NS3.jpg

[britzlove]

I believe that's it for this sale..I'm gonna look this over just to be sure, sorry they aren't in order.
I'll be working on the Futurity Sale now.. a totally different experience.

[britzlove]

Yep thats it..if not listed they were out, sold before the sale I suppose, or not brought for some reason. Anyone need info on those??

Britz

[paintedhorizon]

This is so awesome Britz! Thank you! I'm going to make sure Stella sees this, I know she was interested!

[Cindy]

Thanks Britz. Great job.